Long Term Effects of Upcoming Cyro Changes

mav1234 · November 2020

So, big new changes coming to Cyro. Group limit at 12, no ally effects outside groups: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7011951#Comment_7011951

What do folks think this will do, long-term, to the playerbase of Cyro?

This seems honestly like a bigger nerf to ungrouped players and pickup groups / "zergs" than it is to the real groups. During the test that resembled this, a few 12 person ball groups could still cause server issues. And as someone that predominantly players solo or in a small group, it was harder to handle them than before.

On the other hand, I'm happy to see any change that might reduce lag in Cyro.

Luke_Flamesword · November 2020

I'm really sad, because it completely destroys my playstyle as solo support for groups. It's sometimes really hard to get group with good leader, now with 12-man gropus it will be even harder. I don't like to follow weak leaders, also I don't want to lead others as well.

With proc sets and without random heals from other players non-CP campaign will be nightmare. For me Cyrodill is ruined with this changes - I already tested it in last weeks and I really don't like it

Theignson · November 2020

I would like to see a version of Cyrodil with no groups but with ally buffs.

Limiting to 12 is perfect for the lag-stunning ball groups. They won't notice any changes. Meanwhile the disorganized solo pugs running around with no group buffs and no ally buffs will have even less chance of beating the lag-powered balls

The aoe tests were fun because solo's could actually do something.

going as a solo against a 12 man purge/heal/stun/fear/lag spamming ball blob is a complete waste of time

mikey_reach · November 2020

This isn’t a fix this is a band-aid fix and eventually the band-aid will fall off. This doesnt really address the problem it just prolongs the inevitable.

JayKwellen · November 2020

Depends on what is going to be defined as "player targeted" abilities.

Assuming this means abilities that go directly to other players such as rapid regen, healing ward, breath of life, etc. then it means disorganized zergs are probably gonna die a lot more, mag players won't be able to help out randoms by tossing them a heal as needed, stuff like that. Well organized groups will probably dominate disorganized masses even more than they do now. I'm curious about synergies though. They're not "ally targeted" so I'm guessing they won't be included?

Upside though - solo/small group mag players won't have to worry about their heals going to anyone other than themselves or their group mates, which is honestly going to be awesome.

Joy_Division · November 2020

JayKwellen wrote: »

Depends on what is going to be defined as "player targeted" abilities.

Assuming this means abilities that go directly to other players such as rapid regen, healing ward, breath of life, etc. then it means disorganized zergs are probably gonna die a lot more, mag players won't be able to help out randoms by tossing them a heal as needed, stuff like that. Well organized groups will probably dominate disorganized masses even more than they do now. I'm curious about synergies though. They're not "ally targeted" so I'm guessing they won't be included?

Upside though - solo/small group mag players won't have to worry about their heals going to anyone other than themselves or their group mates, which is honestly going to be awesome.

If you're "solo" or in a small group and your heal is constantly going to someone else such this is noticeable or a problem, then you're just zerg surfing.

It's not going to be awesome when you're it's you and a random trying to fight three people who are grouped together. You're absolutely screwed in that situation.

SodanTok · November 2020

Depends on how they gonna apply these changes/limitations. Its gonna be really stupid if suddenly you can only watch people die and do nothing about it even if you are alone

Theignson · November 2020

The 2, 3, and 4 man troll groups in discord will be empowered by this even more. Already they have a huge advantage over the same number of pugs.
It completely changes the nature of the game to take away ally buffs/heals

Wing · November 2020

i like the group size reduction, that was and obvious choice.

i dont much care for the "group if you want to support and then only your group" change, i liked taking my pve healer into cyro on occasion and just healing pugs solo. the fact that i can no longer support as a solo player is pretty garbage tbh.

i feel like the root of the issue is obviously group heals, but only specific ones, and changes should be made to those skills to bring them in line with the desired playstyle.

for instance, in PVE most heals are ground placed static aoe, as you tend to group and stack and not move as much as cyro (obviously) where as in PvE, its Hots that smart fire and stay with you as you move, such as radiating regeneration. now i do use that in PvE, but more out of habit then requirement.

solution?

hots should all be like rapid regen or resolving vigor, self target only. aoe Hots should be ground placed effects like healing springs. that literally targets and leans into the difference between pve and pvp healing and works around it.

honestly the biggest problem skill is radiating regeneration, it should just be a self only heal and it and vigor should just have the aoe versions removed.

that one change would probobly reduce more lag then the entirety of the cyro test.

in fact just disable that skill for a week as a test, bam, lag reduced.

Dunning_Kruger · November 2020

mav1234 wrote: »

So, big new changes coming to Cyro. Group limit at 12, no ally effects outside groups: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7011951#Comment_7011951

What do folks think this will do, long-term, to the playerbase of Cyro?

This seems honestly like a bigger nerf to ungrouped players and pickup groups / "zergs" than it is to the real groups. During the test that resembled this, a few 12 person ball groups could still cause server issues. And as someone that predominantly players solo or in a small group, it was harder to handle them than before.

On the other hand, I'm happy to see any change that might reduce lag in Cyro.

Idk if you are solo or in small groups doesn’t affect you, in fact it’s a direct buff to you. And likely if you are fighting a ball group before as solo or a small group I don’t see how this change affects you handling the ball group seeing as organized ball groups will just steam roll you either way unless you are zerging just “solo” not in a group.

I don’t disagree thinks like purge spam and rapid regen layering should be looked at to help weakened tight ball groups with healing stacking but this Cyro change I think is in the right direction.

West93 · November 2020

Wait we already tested for 2 month. On live server. Live paid server.

What do they mean "new tests"?

Isn't this enough already?

I couldnt play templar during these tests which is my favourite class and cyorodiil is a zone I spend 99% of my time online.

That's why I play ESO to play a templar in cyrodiil which is already a nerfed class in this state.

mav1234 · November 2020

Dunning_Kruger wrote: »

mav1234 wrote: »

So, big new changes coming to Cyro. Group limit at 12, no ally effects outside groups: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7011951#Comment_7011951

What do folks think this will do, long-term, to the playerbase of Cyro?

This seems honestly like a bigger nerf to ungrouped players and pickup groups / "zergs" than it is to the real groups. During the test that resembled this, a few 12 person ball groups could still cause server issues. And as someone that predominantly players solo or in a small group, it was harder to handle them than before.

On the other hand, I'm happy to see any change that might reduce lag in Cyro.

Idk if you are solo or in small groups doesn’t affect you, in fact it’s a direct buff to you. And likely if you are fighting a ball group before as solo or a small group I don’t see how this change affects you handling the ball group seeing as organized ball groups will just steam roll you either way unless you are zerging just “solo” not in a group.

I don’t disagree thinks like purge spam and rapid regen layering should be looked at to help weakened tight ball groups with healing stacking but this Cyro change I think is in the right direction.

I typically run with a couple other people, and we both take our own objectives and do our own thing and zerg surf during big battles or where the main force is having trouble. This is a pretty big nerf to that kind of playstyle.

I also run solo frequently, and often end up in "pickup" 2v2s or 3v3s at resources. If one side is grouped in that situation, it is a pretty big 'nerf' to the other side, and not everyone wants to group with every random in the heat of a fight.

But the net gain in performance may be worth those kind of losses to what I enjoy.

katorga · November 2020

Thank goodness they are not doing cooldowns, my class was unplayable during most of those tests.

On the plus side, my class will benefit from the change to skills only impacting group members, most of my heals now become 100% self only while solo. No more rapid regens hitting a random person instead of me.

Tranquilizer · November 2020

I believe the upcoming changes will kill Cyrodiil in the long run because ZOS will cut off new blood.

Most people start in Cyrodiil with not much knowledge about pvp builds, meta etc. They just hop in and try to learn. Also, they are normally not in a pvp related guild (yet). Maybe they've read a bit about Cyrodiil, slotted a few damage und a few healing skills, slotted some impen trait armor and were ready to go.

Then, in Cyrodiil, they were carried by a large group with a (mostly) competent leader, or they could just run with the zerg or a full group, carried by their buffs and heals, and could also contribute by healing and buffing them.

With the upcoming changes, this will impossible, and it is also less likely that they will find a group.

So what will happen ? New player enters Cyrodiil, gets killed over and over because allies can't help, gets not much ap because s/he can't contribute, doesn't find a group, leaves Cyrodiil in frustration.

imho, this is the worst decision ZOS ever made regarding to pvp

/edit: keep the group-only heals and buffs, but raise the group size back to 24.

ThePedge · November 2020

Better gameplay
Better performance
Better player retention

Faded · November 2020

Brave New Cyrodiil.

I liked the old one. Already nostalgic today, watching my faction's disorganized rabble pick apart another faction's tightly bunched proto-blobs. Fix incoming.

But if two months of miserable testing showed us anything, it's that the ESO PVPers who've stayed this long will eat whatever crap sandwich they have to to keep on playing. They'll figure something out. High health block builds with triple damage procs and a lot more stamblades I imagine, and 12 man PUGs stacking in the same place the ungrouped would have stacked, although fewer people overall.

Keeps falling a lot easier. And zone chats filled with "are heals bugged?" all day for at least three months.

Zero performance improvement, as promised.

techyeshic · November 2020

I do have concerns about newer to Cyrodiil players not getting picked up or even my guilds once a week drunken zerg that is largely PVEers coming out for some AP and a casual good time. As frustrating as it may be for those of us who like to be more competitive; it is a community gap being bridged in good fun.

I can see what they think it will help but faction stacks will still be a thing. Just get rid of hot stacking from smart heals. Thats more an issue. The mindless stacks this hits are easily killed if you get them to extend.

Crash427 · November 2020

Its too dangerous adding a random to your group if you're fighting coordinated groups. The pug you picked up who's new to PVP will basically just be a time bomb waiting to VD your group.

Joinovikova · November 2020

As I remember the lags druing this period of testing was siginificanly lower.. ball groups get limit to 12 so it wil not hit them so much but at leas it will be 12 Aoe spammer not24 aoe spammers... lets see

Greasytengu · November 2020

Joinovikova wrote: »

As I remember the lags druing this period of testing was siginificanly lower.. ball groups get limit to 12 so it wil not hit them so much but at leas it will be 12 Aoe spammer not24 aoe spammers... lets see

There are already zergs that run multiple 24man groups side by side, what make you think having group limited to 12 is going to hurt big groups?

Recapitated · November 2020

Joy_Division wrote: »

JayKwellen wrote: »

Depends on what is going to be defined as "player targeted" abilities.

Assuming this means abilities that go directly to other players such as rapid regen, healing ward, breath of life, etc. then it means disorganized zergs are probably gonna die a lot more, mag players won't be able to help out randoms by tossing them a heal as needed, stuff like that. Well organized groups will probably dominate disorganized masses even more than they do now. I'm curious about synergies though. They're not "ally targeted" so I'm guessing they won't be included?

Upside though - solo/small group mag players won't have to worry about their heals going to anyone other than themselves or their group mates, which is honestly going to be awesome.

If you're "solo" or in a small group and your heal is constantly going to someone else such this is noticeable or a problem, then you're just zerg surfing.

It's not going to be awesome when you're it's you and a random trying to fight three people who are grouped together. You're absolutely screwed in that situation.

What they could have done is created a toggle for ally-targeted abilities so you can choose between:
- old behaviour
- fully selfish
- group-only

That would have the effect of preventing heals from spilling unintentionally. It would maintain the existing playstyle for other healers. It would reduce checks to some degree, but ZOS said that it didnt have a significant enough impact on performance either way.

Vinarith · November 2020

State of pvp is a dire one. The issue isn't necessarily group size but the zerg surfing and ball groups. This will have very little impact. Only thing this change accomplishes is pushing more new players away from pvp. Ball groups will still exist which in every case is the biggest issue with lag. They lag the entirety of the map does not matter where they are. I a solo No-cp player see very little benefit in any of theses changes. Even the strictest of tests did not improve performance by much if at all. Procs and overlapping of skills really needs to be looked at if they hope to keep the small number of pvp players they have left.

Dunning_Kruger · November 2020

Can’t wait to snack on some on solo healers today.