Khajiits as Werewolves -- a conundrum

Scaletho · October 2020

I still struggle with the idea that Hircine doesn't seems to recognize Khajiits as a "human-beast" race, and therefore part of his creation. Should I regard Argonians and Khajiits' evolution as "natural" and not part of the powerful sphere of Hircine's creatures?

In this case, why Khajiits -- when infected with hircine "disease" -- doesn't turn into a "Were-cat" or "Were-feline"? Argonians into "Were-snakes" or "Were-ophidia"?

I'm sure Hircine's power is capable to give Khajiits or Argonians their own version of "were-wolf"...

I would like to read any explanation of why all Tamriel races, once infected by Hircine's power, always transform as werewolves. It doesn't make much sense to me...

VioletDracolich · October 2020

Werelions and werecrocs are already a thing in the lore. However, lycanthropy as a disease is racial neutral, as the species you can transform into is based on your infector more then your biology.

This_0ne · October 2020

Do you hear about werebears? weresharks? werebats? wereboars? and some other were kinds in lore... Yes they have and its not a wolves)
Argonians and khajiits is a beastfolks. First was made by Hists, second maybe by Azura. Lycantropy is a daedric curse and disease in nature.

Thevampirenight · October 2020

Okay here is the thing and it may blow your mind away, Tes Reality is not like our own, even if we like to compare it to it.
Humans have two distinct definitions in Tes, One for the races of men, but also for all playable races. According to an Uol source only 3 furstocks of khajjit have the unique male cat feature. Rest of the furstocks do not.
Argonians can vary, they can be either warm blooded or coldblooded they can lay eggs or they can give birth to live young and they can vary in appearance they can even have feathers like a bird. Some even looking more human. An argonian female can give birth to a child from a human or elven pairing. We have a in lore example of this in a history book.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Fall_of_Vitharn
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/General:Gary_Noonan's_Posts
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/General:Douglas_Goodall's_Posts

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Generic_Dialogue_H this is dialogue from Morrowind, there is two distinct terms and definitions for human. One is used for all the races including Argonians and Khajiit then the other is used for the races of men.
Humanoid Races
Sloads, dragons, and other sentient races cannot mate with Men, Elves, or Beastmen, and are not considered 'human.' Exceptional accounts of matings between men and daedra do not fit smoothly into this scheme. Elves consider themselves the only 'truly human race,' being descended directly from the gods, and regard the Manish and Beast races as highly intelligent animals. On the other hand, Imperial scholars consider Men, Elves, and Beastmen as 'men,' on the basis that individuals of all three groups can mate with one another."

Like I said its not like our own reality, Argonians and Khajiit have unique variations. In fact in real life there is lizards that can do both egg laying and live birth and even at the same time lay an egg and give live birth. This is the trait Argonians have.

Argonians are unique in that they have mammalian, bird and lizard traits. Khajiit are unique in they can take up many forms and only three of those forms have the barbs. So most many look like cats but only three furstocks have the unique male cat feature.

Lycanthropy is not a racial condition, the condition is unique in that there is basically an animal like spirit attached to the lycanthropes soul. This is how they transform into that respective lycanthrope. I suspect its a vulnerability some can use to mind control other lycanthropes and even change their personalities. We see examples of this in Eso.
There is one Khajjiit origin story and and one thing talking about something similar for the Bosmer that got removed from Eso that refers to Hircine actually being the possible ancestor to both the Bosmer and the Khajiit. So both those races are related, and techically this would make Bosmer more of a Betmer then an actual mer. Though Bosmer have intermixed with Ayleids which might be why their blood counted towards the one quest in Skyrim and why Ayleid blood was not needed.

This would be before Azurah and Y'ffre changed them into the Khajiit and Bosmer respectively. Interesting trivia there is a possibility the wereshark is a khajiit lycanthrope. Both Raz and MAiq have claimed to have encountered that particular lycanthrope.

So the gist of it Khajiit and Argonians are not like our cats and lizards. They are their own unique thing, and they can be infected with all kinds of lycanthropy. A khajiit can become a wereshark, a argonian can become a werewolf. This is a lore fact, this is how Bethesda has decided to do it.

Scaletho · October 2020

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Okay here is the thing and it may blow your mind away, Tes Reality is not like our own, even if we like to compare it to it.
Humans have two distinct definitions in Tes, One for the races of men, but also for all playable races. According to an Uol source only 3 furstocks of khajjit have the unique male cat feature. Rest of the furstocks do not.
Argonians can vary, they can be either warm blooded or coldblooded they can lay eggs or they can give birth to live young and they can vary in appearance they can even have feathers like a bird. Some even looking more human. An argonian female can give birth to a child from a human or elven pairing. We have a in lore example of this in a history book.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Fall_of_Vitharn
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/General:Gary_Noonan's_Posts
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/General:Douglas_Goodall's_Posts

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Generic_Dialogue_H this is dialogue from Morrowind, there is two distinct terms and definitions for human. One is used for all the races including Argonians and Khajiit then the other is used for the races of men.
Humanoid Races
Sloads, dragons, and other sentient races cannot mate with Men, Elves, or Beastmen, and are not considered 'human.' Exceptional accounts of matings between men and daedra do not fit smoothly into this scheme. Elves consider themselves the only 'truly human race,' being descended directly from the gods, and regard the Manish and Beast races as highly intelligent animals. On the other hand, Imperial scholars consider Men, Elves, and Beastmen as 'men,' on the basis that individuals of all three groups can mate with one another."

Like I said its not like our own reality, Argonians and Khajiit have unique variations. In fact in real life there is lizards that can do both egg laying and live birth and even at the same time lay an egg and give live birth. This is the trait Argonians have.

Argonians are unique in that they have mammalian, bird and lizard traits. Khajiit are unique in they can take up many forms and only three of those forms have the barbs. So most many look like cats but only three furstocks have the unique male cat feature.

Lycanthropy is not a racial condition, the condition is unique in that there is basically an animal like spirit attached to the lycanthropes soul. This is how they transform into that respective lycanthrope. I suspect its a vulnerability some can use to mind control other lycanthropes and even change their personalities. We see examples of this in Eso.
There is one Khajjiit origin story and and one thing talking about something similar for the Bosmer that got removed from Eso that refers to Hircine actually being the possible ancestor to both the Bosmer and the Khajiit. So both those races are related, and techically this would make Bosmer more of a Betmer then an actual mer. Though Bosmer have intermixed with Ayleids which might be why their blood counted towards the one quest in Skyrim and why Ayleid blood was not needed.

This would be before Azurah and Y'ffre changed them into the Khajiit and Bosmer respectively. Interesting trivia there is a possibility the wereshark is a khajiit lycanthrope. Both Raz and MAiq have claimed to have encountered that particular lycanthrope.

So the gist of it Khajiit and Argonians are not like our cats and lizards. They are their own unique thing, and they can be infected with all kinds of lycanthropy. A khajiit can become a wereshark, a argonian can become a werewolf. This is a lore fact, this is how Bethesda has decided to do it.

WOW!! That's mind blowing indeed! Thanks!

UppGRAYxDD · October 2020

Aigym_Hlervu · October 2020

Scaletho wrote: »

In this case, why Khajiits -- when infected with hircine "disease" -- doesn't turn into a "Were-cat" or "Were-feline"? Argonians into "Were-snakes" or "Were-ophidia"?

Just thought of those Men turning into weremonkeys or wereapes, according to your logic

.

RABIDxWOLVERINE · October 2020

I wish khajiit and argonians had different looks when it came to werewolves. It would be awesome if arginine turned into werecrocs and khajiits turned into like werelions or something.

I would probably make one just cause it sounds awesome and it’s supported by the lore in the sense that there are different were beasts

Scaletho · October 2020

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

Scaletho wrote: »

In this case, why Khajiits -- when infected with hircine "disease" -- doesn't turn into a "Were-cat" or "Were-feline"? Argonians into "Were-snakes" or "Were-ophidia"?

Just thought of those Men turning into weremonkeys or wereapes, according to your logic .

Just trying to follow the logic of the original lore, which is linked with "primate human" as a canine beast. Khajiits and Argonians are not primates although possessing "human-like" forms. In this case, my reasoning was the lore should follow those races' different nature and be simply innovative with another "monster solution". But you're right, my image sounds weird. If humans can turn into canine-monsters, why not other races too?

My argument is flawed since the beginning.

emilyhyoyeon · October 2020

The beast affinity of Hircine refers to beasts as in animals and monsters. In TES khajiit and argonians aren't animals or monsters, they're another race of people that look kinda like and have several traits of REAL LIFE animals.

That is why there's no tie between the khajiit and argonians with Hircine in particular. They aren't actually beasts, even though they're seen to be discriminated against on those grounds by other cultures. Khajiit and argonian culture, including deity worship and connection, developed separate from the cultures that have other people who see them as animal-like.

Khajiit and argonians obviously look like IRL animals but in the context of the world of TES they just aren't, especially within themselves. The real life lens makes khajiit and argonians look more beastly than they actually are.

Iccotak · October 2020

A common misconception about elder scrolls lycanthropy is viewing them as half person/half beast.

This is incorrect. A Lycanthrope form, like a werewolf or werebear, are actually Daedric creatures who’s form that mortals can take upon themselves.

The same rule applies to vampire lords and blood scions. Notice how neither Argonian or Khajiit have unique Vampire Lord forms.

Cardthief · October 2020

As what others have been saying, Lycanthropy in the case of players getting infected will always be Werewolves, race, be it man, mer, or beast, matters not in this. Now, if say your Khajiit were infected with the strain that turned you into a Werelion or another feline strain, then that same strain would apply to Argonians, mer, and men.

ArchMikem · October 2020

Just to note, its widely accepted that Azurah is the "Mother Cat" in Khajiiti lore. If Azura did indeed create the Khajiit then the Race is off limits to Hircine. (minus the curse that is)

Thevampirenight · October 2020

ArchMikem wrote: »

Just to note, its widely accepted that Azurah is the "Mother Cat" in Khajiiti lore. If Azura did indeed create the Khajiit then the Race is off limits to Hircine. (minus the curse that is)

Here is the thing, although Hircine would not be the one that made the Khajiit, Khajiit or Bosmer Bosmer. He would be the Father of the spirits that were basically shapeless constantly changing form that were taken and changed to become the Khajiit and the Bosmer.
One note they removed from the game but now used as an Uol source on Uesp is Hircine is the one that made those spirits the way they are. Before Y'ffre took them and made them Bosmer. https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:The_Blessings_of_Hircine
So in a way Zenimax has went with this idea that Hircine is kinda like not just the Father of Lycanthropes, but in a way have hinted towards him being a direct ancestor to both the Khajiit and Bosmer. In the Altmeri sense of the word ancestor being translated to the word Aedra. Hircine technically would be an Aedra to both Khajiit and Bosmeri peoples, if the Khajiit and Bosmer stories about it are correct.

Iccotak · November 2020

delete