Ravensilver wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Man, I can't wait for the day we stop using the word "casual" as a bad thing in games.

This!

I've been playing computer games for over 40 years now. There was a time where I could do 8 hours of playing a day, running groups, trying to maximise my builds, doing weekly raids, running a guild etc.

That time has passed. I have a company to run, a house and family to take care of, cats to feed, other interests in life. I still spend anywhere from 3-5 hours a day ingame. I love doing the quests, I spend hours exploring the new areas, I run my dailies, do an occasional group with guild members. I get totally absorbed in housing. Within my personal limits (I have certain health issues that make me slower at mouse and keyboard), I solo dungeons and trials.
I fish, I craft, I trade, I interact with my guilds.

I enjoy the game precisely *because* it doesn't require me to run an endless race of more, faster, higher, like WoW does. In ESO, I can craft my own equip, and it's good enough to do all content that I want to do. I will never see vet or vet+ dungeons from the inside, but I'm ok with that (except for the sunspire mount... ^^;; I would have loved to have that, but, oh well... ^^;;).

I come to ESO almost every day, because it allows me to play according to my mood and energy of that day. Have I had a good day? Then I'll perhaps solo a dungeon. Have I had a bad day? Then I might just spend all evening gathering mats and opening chests.

If this means that I'm a terrible, horrible 'casual' player, then so be it.

I'd very much like ESO to stay as it is. I don't need a second WoW... definitely not.

I completely agree with you. But unfortunately even you haven't read my thread to the end. There I wrote about how you can help newcomers to make it easier for them to master the battle mode, and that people should prioritize their forces if they are going to go to group content. Namely, to think about what needs to be done, what sets to wear, and how it is desirable to correctly fulfill your role. Be polite, ask if u something is not understading and warn if you are here for the first time if u need expalin mechanics. I understand that there is a gap between hardcore players and newbie casuals, but I respect everyone's opinion and try to listen to it if it makes sense. Therefore, he expressed in his thread how to make it comfortable and hardcore for players in the future, and it became much more convenient and pleasant for beginners who, sooner or later, might want to conquer group content.

Nobody obliges anyone to do anything, everyone plays according to their capabilities (the Limit of possibilities that they can). If a some newbie wanted group content and went to it and made an effort to prepare in advance his character, it will be very noticeable. But if a some casual quietly came, didn't say anything, died 30 times and spent a lot of other people's time, of course people will be very angry here.

Just a small request to somehow comply with these minimum requirements so that there is mutual understanding if you want something more than quests

Inaya1 wrote: »

I completely agree with you. But unfortunately even you haven't read my thread to the end. There I wrote about how you can help newcomers to make it easier for them to master the battle mode, and that people should prioritize their forces if they are going to go to group content. Namely, to think about what needs to be done, what sets to wear, and how it is desirable to correctly fulfill your role. Be polite, ask if u something is not understading and warn if you are here for the first time if u need expalin mechanics. I understand that there is a gap between hardcore players and newbie casuals, but I respect everyone's opinion and try to listen to it if it makes sense. Therefore, he expressed in his thread how to make it comfortable and hardcore for players in the future, and it became much more convenient and pleasant for beginners who, sooner or later, might want to conquer group content.

Nobody obliges anyone to do anything, everyone plays according to their capabilities (the Limit of possibilities that they can). If a some newbie wanted group content and went to it and made an effort to prepare in advance his character, it will be very noticeable. But if a some casual quietly came, didn't say anything, died 30 times and spent a lot of other people's time, of course people will be very angry here.

Just a small request to somehow comply with these minimum requirements so that there is mutual understanding if you want something more than quests

Your message is being lost due to the aggressive tone you employed in your post, which immediately put people who think of themselves as casual players on the defensive. That was unwise if your intent is to get support for your ideas. But I completely agree with the way you state the problem and your proposed solutions.

The issue that you are pointing out is not that casual players are useless, it's that the complexity of ESO's endgame management makes it inaccessible to solo casual players unless they do a ton of research and legwork to even understand how the game works in the first place. This is totally true.

I run a social guild whose primary goal is to give less experienced players a path forward to improving their gameplay so that they can participate in harder content on their terms and in their timeframe, given that we all have real lives with considerable demands on our time. I can say from that experience that gathering all of the information required and presenting it to people who have not had the time to do their own research and push their experiences is a monumental task. We have to sift through content from multiple contributors, test that content and those tools, synthesize it and organize it, and spend time teaching that to other people who then ultimately feel like it's drinking water from a fire hose.

Based on your proposed solutions, the issue that you are highlighting in your OP is not one of casual players being a problem, it's that the information ZOS provides in the game is not sufficiently organized or transparent enough to allow casual players to easily understand what they need to do to get better on their own, and some of the solutions you propose would probably be effective at closing that gap.

One example that always annoyed me is the templar jabs. For a new player, looking at it it just says that it's area damage, but that is not entirely accurate. Nothing in the tooltip lets me immediately see exactly which buffs or CP are going to contribute to buffing that skill. Also, it has a cast time and its own cooldown. Unless I sit and test and parse to figure out the timing myself, I have no idea how to use it most efficiently. All of that information should be in the tooltip. i played magplar for months before I started investigating the details of the skills I was using to figure out how to use them all most effectively, and that took a ton of time. That time would have been reduced significantly if the in game content had all of the necessary the details available for people to figure out independently.

Other suggestions that have been made is to provide "training quests" that actually teach people stuff like LA weaving mechanics - also a good idea.

The fact that ESO has a place for casual players is actually a good thing. Some people I know in game who have crippling social anxiety issues have actually overcome some of them by playing this game, having spent months doing the solo content, they want to do more. They took the big step to join a guild and get on Discord, and over time ended up being vocal contributors and pretty good players. But it would be nice if we didn't have to invest so much time helping them unlearn the bad stuff and start learning what they really need to know to up their game. I wonder how many people just end up quitting the game because they were afraid to take that first step. I know some people quit because once they realize how much they need to know and what gear they need to get, they leave because the task looks too onerous to complete.

So your points are well taken, but I think you could have taken a more diplomatic tone in expressing them.

furiouslog wrote: »

Inaya1 wrote: »

I completely agree with you. But unfortunately even you haven't read my thread to the end. There I wrote about how you can help newcomers to make it easier for them to master the battle mode, and that people should prioritize their forces if they are going to go to group content. Namely, to think about what needs to be done, what sets to wear, and how it is desirable to correctly fulfill your role. Be polite, ask if u something is not understading and warn if you are here for the first time if u need expalin mechanics. I understand that there is a gap between hardcore players and newbie casuals, but I respect everyone's opinion and try to listen to it if it makes sense. Therefore, he expressed in his thread how to make it comfortable and hardcore for players in the future, and it became much more convenient and pleasant for beginners who, sooner or later, might want to conquer group content.

Nobody obliges anyone to do anything, everyone plays according to their capabilities (the Limit of possibilities that they can). If a some newbie wanted group content and went to it and made an effort to prepare in advance his character, it will be very noticeable. But if a some casual quietly came, didn't say anything, died 30 times and spent a lot of other people's time, of course people will be very angry here.

Just a small request to somehow comply with these minimum requirements so that there is mutual understanding if you want something more than quests

Your message is being lost due to the aggressive tone you employed in your post, which immediately put people who think of themselves as casual players on the defensive. That was unwise if your intent is to get support for your ideas. But I completely agree with the way you state the problem and your proposed solutions.

The issue that you are pointing out is not that casual players are useless, it's that the complexity of ESO's endgame management makes it inaccessible to solo casual players unless they do a ton of research and legwork to even understand how the game works in the first place. This is totally true.

I run a social guild whose primary goal is to give less experienced players a path forward to improving their gameplay so that they can participate in harder content on their terms and in their timeframe, given that we all have real lives with considerable demands on our time. I can say from that experience that gathering all of the information required and presenting it to people who have not had the time to do their own research and push their experiences is a monumental task. We have to sift through content from multiple contributors, test that content and those tools, synthesize it and organize it, and spend time teaching that to other people who then ultimately feel like it's drinking water from a fire hose.

Based on your proposed solutions, the issue that you are highlighting in your OP is not one of casual players being a problem, it's that the information ZOS provides in the game is not sufficiently organized or transparent enough to allow casual players to easily understand what they need to do to get better on their own, and some of the solutions you propose would probably be effective at closing that gap.

One example that always annoyed me is the templar jabs. For a new player, looking at it it just says that it's area damage, but that is not entirely accurate. Nothing in the tooltip lets me immediately see exactly which buffs or CP are going to contribute to buffing that skill. Also, it has a cast time and its own cooldown. Unless I sit and test and parse to figure out the timing myself, I have no idea how to use it most efficiently. All of that information should be in the tooltip. i played magplar for months before I started investigating the details of the skills I was using to figure out how to use them all most effectively, and that took a ton of time. That time would have been reduced significantly if the in game content had all of the necessary the details available for people to figure out independently.

Other suggestions that have been made is to provide "training quests" that actually teach people stuff like LA weaving mechanics - also a good idea.

The fact that ESO has a place for casual players is actually a good thing. Some people I know in game who have crippling social anxiety issues have actually overcome some of them by playing this game, having spent months doing the solo content, they want to do more. They took the big step to join a guild and get on Discord, and over time ended up being vocal contributors and pretty good players. But it would be nice if we didn't have to invest so much time helping them unlearn the bad stuff and start learning what they really need to know to up their game. I wonder how many people just end up quitting the game because they were afraid to take that first step. I know some people quit because once they realize how much they need to know and what gear they need to get, they leave because the task looks too onerous to complete.

So your points are well taken, but I think you could have taken a more diplomatic tone in expressing them.

Everyone has mistakes)) Nobody is perfect. I'm not trying to offend anyone, sry for that, i just want to convey the very idea of it.

I didn’t want the title to be aggressive, and I couldn’t find another word, but on the whole, you understood me correctly

Others, for some reason, continue to ignore the text and read only the title xD

They need some sort of Progression model to lock players out of content until they are ready.

I have no idea why anyone would want to que into something they have no hope of ever completing. Not Hardcore, and DEFINITELY not casuals who only have 1 hour and just spent it on the first boss in a DLC because so and so tank can't block a HA.

Anyone thinking that is a fun time isn't thinking straight. You don't have to be 100K+ parser to feel like you wasted your time, even if its your own fault. That just makes people (All sides) end up quitting or the ever present "I don't buy DLC dungeons because the last time I did them it took 3 hours and we never finished" posts pop up.