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Eight weeks of frustrating tests!
LarsS
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We have now nearly completed 8 weeks of testing, so I think its time to sum up. My view is based on our discussions in the guild, but one can see the same conclusions from many others on the forum.
1. On the client side we haven’t seen any substantial improvements in game performance, for any of these tests.
2. The direction towards this testing are pointing (with global cooldowns) makes the combat extremely frustrating if the combat system is changed in the indicated way, many will leave not only pvp but the game. This statement is based on the frustration we feel in a 350 members guild.
I ask ZOS to consider other alternatives and to start a substantial dialog with the player community, so we can find a solution which we player can accept. Those solutions may be more costly, but I think they will in the end save and increase the player base.
I don’t know the technical specs for the servers, but I have some questions.
1. Why can’t you expand the mega servers?
2. Are there other solutions for the data transfer protocol (TCP, UDP)?
3. If you can’t expand the megaserver, can you create a cluster of independent servers, were for ex the cyro instances run on a completely different server, on another location?
I also have some game related questions.
1. The proc sets have proliferated in recent years, are you sure they are not a part of the problem.
2. Would it help if one would revert the power creep, by for ex reducing health or increasing skill costs?
3. We have a number of bugs in the combat system, to what extent do they produce lag, they definitely produce problems like crashes and desync.
GM for The Daggerfall Authority EU PC
41
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MJallday✭✭✭✭✭
✭We have now nearly completed 8 weeks of testing, so I think its time to sum up. My view is based on our discussions in the guild, but one can see the same conclusions from many others on the forum.
1. On the client side we haven’t seen any substantial improvements in game performance, for any of these tests.
2. The direction towards this testing are pointing (with global cooldowns) makes the combat extremely frustrating if the combat system is changed in the indicated way, many will leave not only pvp but the game. This statement is based on the frustration we feel in a 350 members guild.
I ask ZOS to consider other alternatives and to start a substantial dialog with the player community, so we can find a solution which we player can accept. Those solutions may be more costly, but I think they will in the end save and increase the player base.
I don’t know the technical specs for the servers, but I have some questions.
1. Why can’t you expand the mega servers?
2. Are there other solutions for the data transfer protocol (TCP, UDP)?
3. If you can’t expand the megaserver, can you create a cluster of independent servers, were for ex the cyro instances run on a completely different server, on another location?
I also have some game related questions.
1. The proc sets have proliferated in recent years, are you sure they are not a part of the problem.
2. Would it help if one would revert the power creep, by for ex reducing health or increasing skill costs?
3. We have a number of bugs in the combat system, to what extent do they produce lag, they definitely produce problems like crashes and desync.
Incredibly intelligent questions which deserve an answer. I suspect, however, you will never get one22 -
Sarannah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Positive note on the tests: As a non-pvper I made full use of these tests. With most PvPers staying out of Cyrodiil right now, I went to gather all the skyshards and attune all the crafting stations for in my house!
12 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Totally agree.
Now they has added more servers before, this help everywhere except Cyrodil.
As Cyrodil campaigns is one instance it has to run on one server.
Now you could technically divide up cyrodil in zones with load doors like done in imperial city. naturally to do this at the gatehouses and walls, you need to change AD-EP border as its an river with bridges.
The problem is then all go to one faction fighting over the last emperor keep, but this is an obvious alternative to cooldowns.
Amazon webservices offers some pretty powerful servers, yes this is expensive but all this messing around also cost money.
On the other hand it might be that the code is so single treaded it don't benefit much from an server with lots of cores.
And proc set would have an impact. Not only the obvious proc sets like the monster helms, but stuff like ebon is an constant AoE +1000 health if inside one so its an AoE with 100% uptime even if AfK in an keep.Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.2 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Remember the times when healing springs could stack? So healers would spam aoe HoT non stop? Yep, AoEs are the problem.5 -
d3adpain✭✭✭hehe ball groups start to cry cause they know the nerf hammer is coming xD
i hope they *** purge spam too and not only shared hots3 -
LarsS✭✭✭✭✭hehe ball groups start to cry cause they know the nerf hammer is coming xD
i hope they *** purge spam too and not only shared hots
You have obviously not read the discussions on the forum or in cyro zone chat. This is not about pvp guilds these potential changes destroys a combat system which is the reason for many to play ESO. PvP guilds have good theory crafter so they can handle these changes, but I fear that many players will leave ESO for New World and other MMO. Based on ZOS track record so far these changes will also be implemented for pve. These combat changes may thus kill ESO.GM for The Daggerfall Authority EU PC15 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Totally agree.
Now they has added more servers before, this help everywhere except Cyrodil.
As Cyrodil campaigns is one instance it has to run on one server.
Now you could technically divide up cyrodil in zones with load doors like done in imperial city. naturally to do this at the gatehouses and walls, you need to change AD-EP border as its an river with bridges.
The problem is then all go to one faction fighting over the last emperor keep, but this is an obvious alternative to cooldowns.
Amazon webservices offers some pretty powerful servers, yes this is expensive but all this messing around also cost money.
On the other hand it might be that the code is so single treaded it don't benefit much from an server with lots of cores.
And proc set would have an impact. Not only the obvious proc sets like the monster helms, but stuff like ebon is an constant AoE +1000 health if inside one so its an AoE with 100% uptime even if AfK in an keep.
That's not how the megaserver architecture works. Instances and zones are spanned across servers and nothing exists in isolation on a single server. It's simply a bunch of servers working as if they were one. What could be interesting would be to leverage the power of azure which would mean dynamic capacity and resources, and of course, servers popping up globally instead of localisation like now which would also benefit connectivity.
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zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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This, as I understand combat lead said they would.hehe ball groups start to cry cause they know the nerf hammer is coming xD
i hope they *** purge spam too and not only shared hots
You have obviously not read the discussions on the forum or in cyro zone chat. This is not about pvp guilds these potential changes destroys a combat system which is the reason for many to play ESO. PvP guilds have good theory crafter so they can handle these changes, but I fear that many players will leave ESO for New World and other MMO. Based on ZOS track record so far these changes will also be implemented for pve. These combat changes may thus kill ESO.
Now I doubt they add cooldowns on AoE because of the risk.
Combat team are independent from finance but they answer if they do stuff who impact the bottom line a lot.
I say an 25% drop in ESO+ is low ball seeing how this hit everybody who don't only spam LA or snipe.
Just doing an delve will be misrable, run into Cyrodil and try one.
In short cooperate mending will solve this, the new combat team will be on an far shorter leach, overall that is bad but here, just say I'm not very impressed before one of the 10 most stupidest ideas I have read on this forum.
Playable Daedra, Flying mounts, global action house, trial finder, all gear should be BoE, Khajiit should also ignore the movement speed penalty of sneak.
No I don't see them as good ideas outside the last as this one fur looks bad as vampire.
Global cooldown on AoE probably ranks worse than selling perfected gear in crown store.
Simply as later would not get me to instant quit, did an delve in Cyrodil after all.Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.1 -
nk125x✭✭✭✭✭Lars hit the nail on the head. I for one am part of his guild and I, for the life of me can't understand how he is willing to start the raid every night during these tests. I gave up after the second week as the way they forced us to play was soul destroying and just sucked the fun out of the game, I really have missed playing with the guild, but cant play in these tests.
I just have this horrible thought that I can't shake that these tests are designed to shut people up about the dreadful performance as they can now say "Do you really want the 3 cooldowns ...."., or do they want to kill Cyyrodiil and just have PvE and Battlegrounds.
Also the proliferation of Proc sets must also add to the lag esp the AOE, ones. Most of them are up nearly 100% of the time so that's got to be a lot of calculations on the server. Also I haven't spoken to anyone who want them in the game, but everybody are forced to run them to compete.
Anyways a huge +1 to Lars for starting this thread and I hope someone in ZOS respond to his questions (although I think it more likely to snow in hell).
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Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo✭✭✭✭✭
✭It hasn't been fun for a while guys, think about it.
PVP content hasn't really budged much in 6 years honestly. Most games (even free ones) keep their PVP well, alive and breathing with new content, maps, bug fixes and other items. We got a hammer and some new/same position bridges, great.
8 weeks will probably turn into 3 months and I'm not even fussed about it any more as it has gone past the point of caring. It has taken them so long to address the issue, it's Amy's kitchen up in here.6 -
mullins07✭✭✭Completely agree with @LarsS on this.
8 weeks of tests are almost done, and if I were allowed to choose an outcome, I would just leave the game as it was.
Dealing with the server issues was still more fun than attempting to deal with any of the test scenarios, even if server load was shown to be improved.
If you can't fix the performance issues by hardware upgrades, or splitting the map in Cyrodiil over multiple server nodes, then just leave it as it is. Changing the game mechanics might improve server load, but the tests have shown that the game is significantly less fun to play, and Cyrodiil is much less populated as a result.
As an ESO plus member, only interested in Cyrodiil, I could not see myself continuing to play ESO for very long if any of the testing scenarios were implemented permanently.6 -
TineaCruris✭✭✭✭✭We know AOE's aren't the problem because AOE spamming has existed since inception.
They refuse to expand server capabilities in proportion to player base number increases. That, and they are trying to make the game run on Stadia and other platforms that games like ESO should not be hosted on, because the platform is too dumbed down to do the calculations necessary, so many calculations have to be moved to server side.Edited by TineaCruris on October 29, 2020 9:30PM8 -
WILC0✭✭Let's be honest, adding a 3 sec cooldown to AOE skills looks like an attempt to make lag become a feature!
Before these tests i had to wait 3 seconds for my skills to go off because of the lag, now i have a 3 secs cooldown...
Nice try ZOS!!13 -
Kiralyn2000✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Pretty sure the tests have been frustrating for the tech guys running them, too. Because they're trying to figure out how to fix their game, and if the tests are going this badly, they can't be succeeding.2 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Kiralyn2000 wrote: »Pretty sure the tests have been frustrating for the tech guys running them, too. Because they're trying to figure out how to fix their game, and if the tests are going this badly, they can't be succeeding.
Even worse though is that any test data will be skewed by the simple fact that many people are actively avoiding cyro because of them. Any assertions they draw from them will be false assumptions.Edited by mairwen85 on October 29, 2020 11:16PM11 -
EdmondDontes✭✭✭✭✭
✭Let's be honest, adding a 3 sec cooldown to AOE skills looks like an attempt to make lag become a feature!
Before these tests i had to wait 3 seconds for my skills to go off because of the lag, now i have a 3 secs cooldown...
Nice try ZOS!!
Coodowns are mandated lag. The result is the same.2 -
Sergykid✭✭✭✭✭
✭any ability that hits friendly targets should only be usable on group members. This showed a bit of lag decrease, and for players is an advantage. If i cast a aoe friendly spell, i want my group to benefit from it, not some randoms. And if i am solo, i don't want my regen or whatever to target someone random. This should be applied to the whole game, because except for some random world bosses, where else would this be harmful?-PC EU- / battlegrounds on my youtube2 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭any ability that hits friendly targets should only be usable on group members. This showed a bit of lag decrease, and for players is an advantage. If i cast a aoe friendly spell, i want my group to benefit from it, not some randoms. And if i am solo, i don't want my regen or whatever to target someone random. This should be applied to the whole game, because except for some random world bosses, where else would this be harmful?
The random healers who run around the zone spamming RR and giving out spc (courage) like Oprah.Edited by mairwen85 on October 30, 2020 1:17AM1 -
barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭EdmondDontes wrote: »Let's be honest, adding a 3 sec cooldown to AOE skills looks like an attempt to make lag become a feature!
Before these tests i had to wait 3 seconds for my skills to go off because of the lag, now i have a 3 secs cooldown...
Nice try ZOS!!
Coodowns are mandated lag. The result is the same.
The result is the same ... BUT .... the reaction is idfferent
Player A ' this lag makes combat impossible ' - is a person who likely will quit the game
Player B ' these cooldowns take too long ' - is a person who will just complain about - but accept and adjust to - a crappy combat system, and will continue to play.
It's all in the mindset
IMHO
1 -
Miswar✭✭✭✭✭Good questions and good luck on getting answers from ZoS.
Only things these test has proven is the fact that the problems are not in client side.
Invest to proper servers and start fixing the bugs. Simple as that.3 -
KhajiitLivesMatter✭✭✭✭We have now nearly completed 8 weeks of testing, so I think its time to sum up. My view is based on our discussions in the guild, but one can see the same conclusions from many others on the forum.
1. On the client side we haven’t seen any substantial improvements in game performance, for any of these tests.
2. The direction towards this testing are pointing (with global cooldowns) makes the combat extremely frustrating if the combat system is changed in the indicated way, many will leave not only pvp but the game. This statement is based on the frustration we feel in a 350 members guild.
I ask ZOS to consider other alternatives and to start a substantial dialog with the player community, so we can find a solution which we player can accept. Those solutions may be more costly, but I think they will in the end save and increase the player base.
I don’t know the technical specs for the servers, but I have some questions.
1. Why can’t you expand the mega servers?
2. Are there other solutions for the data transfer protocol (TCP, UDP)?
3. If you can’t expand the megaserver, can you create a cluster of independent servers, were for ex the cyro instances run on a completely different server, on another location?
I also have some game related questions.
1. The proc sets have proliferated in recent years, are you sure they are not a part of the problem.
2. Would it help if one would revert the power creep, by for ex reducing health or increasing skill costs?
3. We have a number of bugs in the combat system, to what extent do they produce lag, they definitely produce problems like crashes and desync.
no test = cyro stays bad as it is = players cry
tests to improve performance = players cry
...
just let them do there tests finaly2 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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Difference is that lag is just an issue during huge fights in Cyrodil. The cooldowns will be everywhere.barney2525 wrote: »EdmondDontes wrote: »Let's be honest, adding a 3 sec cooldown to AOE skills looks like an attempt to make lag become a feature!
Before these tests i had to wait 3 seconds for my skills to go off because of the lag, now i have a 3 secs cooldown...
Nice try ZOS!!
Coodowns are mandated lag. The result is the same.
The result is the same ... BUT .... the reaction is idfferent
Player A ' this lag makes combat impossible ' - is a person who likely will quit the game
Player B ' these cooldowns take too long ' - is a person who will just complain about - but accept and adjust to - a crappy combat system, and will continue to play.
It's all in the mindset
IMHO
I say chance for B stop playing to be significant.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
LarsS✭✭✭✭✭any ability that hits friendly targets should only be usable on group members. This showed a bit of lag decrease, and for players is an advantage. If i cast a aoe friendly spell, i want my group to benefit from it, not some randoms. And if i am solo, i don't want my regen or whatever to target someone random. This should be applied to the whole game, because except for some random world bosses, where else would this be harmful?
I agree that was the only case that showed an improvement.GM for The Daggerfall Authority EU PC1 -
marius_buys✭✭✭✭✭
✭AOE cooldowns pfft, ask Microsoft to boost the servers and cut the BS excuses. I have not in my 15K+ hrs of playing seen such a dog show as this. Cheese single target stam builds pretty much rule PvP atm. It is also impossible to survive any form of PvP and seige when assaulting a keep. Cut the damn politics we want playability and results.Edited by marius_buys on October 30, 2020 12:07PMGolden Clover AD PvP on PC EU (since 2017) Guildex https://eso.guildex.org/view-guild/17669 Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/1312113207951963 -
West93✭✭✭✭✭We have now nearly completed 8 weeks of testing, so I think its time to sum up. My view is based on our discussions in the guild, but one can see the same conclusions from many others on the forum.
1. On the client side we haven’t seen any substantial improvements in game performance, for any of these tests.
2. The direction towards this testing are pointing (with global cooldowns) makes the combat extremely frustrating if the combat system is changed in the indicated way, many will leave not only pvp but the game. This statement is based on the frustration we feel in a 350 members guild.
I ask ZOS to consider other alternatives and to start a substantial dialog with the player community, so we can find a solution which we player can accept. Those solutions may be more costly, but I think they will in the end save and increase the player base.
I don’t know the technical specs for the servers, but I have some questions.
1. Why can’t you expand the mega servers?
2. Are there other solutions for the data transfer protocol (TCP, UDP)?
3. If you can’t expand the megaserver, can you create a cluster of independent servers, were for ex the cyro instances run on a completely different server, on another location?
I also have some game related questions.
1. The proc sets have proliferated in recent years, are you sure they are not a part of the problem.
2. Would it help if one would revert the power creep, by for ex reducing health or increasing skill costs?
3. We have a number of bugs in the combat system, to what extent do they produce lag, they definitely produce problems like crashes and desync.
That's quite a zerg you got there.0 -
L_Nici✭✭✭✭✭
✭The best test so far was the groupsize limited to 12 with healing only working on groupmembers, wasn't frustrating, and didn't lag as much.PC|EU3 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭any ability that hits friendly targets should only be usable on group members. This showed a bit of lag decrease, and for players is an advantage. If i cast a aoe friendly spell, i want my group to benefit from it, not some randoms. And if i am solo, i don't want my regen or whatever to target someone random. This should be applied to the whole game, because except for some random world bosses, where else would this be harmful?
Two people are grouped take a resource. Two ungrouped people go from the keep to go and reclaim the resource.
That should be an even, interesting fight.
It's not because the mechanic totally screws over the people who are ungrouped.
That dynamic will apply to everyone, everywhere, all the time in Cyrodiiil. Not in a group = play at a fundamental disadvantage. Those Pugs who are on the ram just trying to contribute to their supposed "Alliance" and dying to oils? Even though you are on the same team, you can't heal them. That organized ball group people already complain is too strong and puts too much pressure on the server? Now they are even stronger because while they can spam heals, buffs, and purges the pugs they are farming now can't.Edited by Joy_Division on October 30, 2020 1:28PMMake Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.7 -
caperb✭✭✭✭✭
✭We have now nearly completed 8 weeks of testing, so I think its time to sum up. My view is based on our discussions in the guild, but one can see the same conclusions from many others on the forum.
1. On the client side we haven’t seen any substantial improvements in game performance, for any of these tests.
2. The direction towards this testing are pointing (with global cooldowns) makes the combat extremely frustrating if the combat system is changed in the indicated way, many will leave not only pvp but the game. This statement is based on the frustration we feel in a 350 members guild.
I ask ZOS to consider other alternatives and to start a substantial dialog with the player community, so we can find a solution which we player can accept. Those solutions may be more costly, but I think they will in the end save and increase the player base.
I don’t know the technical specs for the servers, but I have some questions.
1. Why can’t you expand the mega servers?
2. Are there other solutions for the data transfer protocol (TCP, UDP)?
3. If you can’t expand the megaserver, can you create a cluster of independent servers, were for ex the cyro instances run on a completely different server, on another location?
I also have some game related questions.
1. The proc sets have proliferated in recent years, are you sure they are not a part of the problem.
2. Would it help if one would revert the power creep, by for ex reducing health or increasing skill costs?
3. We have a number of bugs in the combat system, to what extent do they produce lag, they definitely produce problems like crashes and desync.
That's quite a zerg you got there.
Their minimum group size as well.0 -
EdmondDontes✭✭✭✭✭
✭What did they do during the midyear mayem event that, to a large degree at least, made things run mostly smooth?
Why can't we do that full time?Edited by EdmondDontes on October 30, 2020 2:23PM1 -
LarsS✭✭✭✭✭EdmondDontes wrote: »What did they do during the midyear mayem event that, to a large degree at least, made things run mostly smooth?
Why can't we do that full time?
Good question I would like to have an answer to that to.GM for The Daggerfall Authority EU PC0
