ArchMikem wrote: »

The Reach is beset by dark forces, and even the warrior-king of Markarth needs allies in the battles to come. Are you willing to fight for the Reachfolk against the myriad evils of the Gray Host?

So. Frankly, I don't want to? It's been made obvious the Reachmen in this Era have been nothing but antagonists the entire time, from the base game Alliance zones all the way to Greymoor. They're marauders, pillagers. They eagerly became puppets of the Gray Host simply for the chance at slaughtering Nords and taking Skyrim. Now we're going to fight for them?

The whole point of this storyline is to show that there is more than one side to them. They’re not a monolith anymore than the other races are. It’s a welcome departure from only portraying them as 2 dimensional villains.

A lot of Reachmen fans have complained for years about how they’ve been written. “They’re marauders, pillagers” - did you make the same complaint when Vvardenfell came out (“the Dunmer are slavers”) or Summerset (“the Altmer are all supremacists”)?

ArchMikem wrote: »

Glenmorils wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

The Reach is beset by dark forces, and even the warrior-king of Markarth needs allies in the battles to come. Are you willing to fight for the Reachfolk against the myriad evils of the Gray Host?

So. Frankly, I don't want to? It's been made obvious the Reachmen in this Era have been nothing but antagonists the entire time, from the base game Alliance zones all the way to Greymoor. They're marauders, pillagers. They eagerly became puppets of the Gray Host simply for the chance at slaughtering Nords and taking Skyrim. Now we're going to fight for them?

The whole point of this storyline is to show that there is more than one side to them. They’re not a monolith anymore than the other races are. It’s a welcome departure from only portraying them as 2 dimensional villains.

A lot of Reachmen fans have complained for years about how they’ve been written. “They’re marauders, pillagers” - did you make the same complaint when Vvardenfell came out (“the Dunmer are slavers”) or Summerset (“the Altmer are all supremacists”)?

Actually I did honestly. Those generalizations you used are actually still very true. Slavery is an ingrained ideology in the entire Dunmeri people, as is Racial superiority in the Altmer. A more appropriate comparison with the Reachmen however would be the Ashlander Dunmer really. Though they weren't portrayed as an inherently hostile people they do act as antagonists on multiple occasions and yet they are also a persecuted offshoot of their people, just like how the Reachment are the estranged cousins of the Nords. Except with the Reachmen it's never to my memory been shown that they wish reconciliation with Skyrim. They've always wanted to "reclaim" their "rightful" lands by force and expand further than that. Even if we'll be shown they have normal lives like normal people with normal backstories back in their home territories, they have no intention to pursue peaceful coexistence.

So you can criticize the problematic aspects of other cultures in TES but still see how they’re worthwhile to explore, but not the Reachmen? Idk it seems like a double standard because of how the Reachmen have been portrayed through tropes (savages/barbarians/“evil natives”) and now that we’re given the chance to see them through another lens or at least hear their own perspectives on things, you don’t want to explore that? You don’t have to agree or become a Reachman fan, but it’s really limiting to write off an entire culture in this setting because you don’t like them.

Every culture in Tamriel has horrible practices that should be condemned and overall moral complexity, but we don’t typically view them all as a monolith. “No intention to pursue peaceful coexistence” can apply to the Dunmer towards the Argonians, the Altmer and all of Tamriel, the Nords, the Bretons, Redguards and Orcs at varying parts of their histories, and... the IMPERIALS whose collective goal is conquer every people on Tamriel... basically every group that sought to expand their borders at any point had “no intent of peaceful coexistence.” The Nords still have no intent of peaceful coexistence with the Reachmen as seen in their subjugation in Skyrim.

If you know the lore you know that each group has complicated histories. Why deny the chance to view a different side of a very interesting and complex group? We even get to see positive portrayals of literal vampires, but we complain about a nuanced portrayal of Reachmen?

Casting them as hordes of barbaric villains for so long in ESO was a mistake imo, and this dlc is a great way to challenge that portrayal. I’m all for groups of Reachmen being a source of conflict when their goals don’t align with their neighboring races, but they’re still a culture worth exploring.