BuildMan wrote: »

How long did it take back in 2016, I cant remember but I think it was around 6 months. Oh them days, nothing like the old viper, widowmaker, velidreth (and also lets not forget black rose, viper, tremorscale)

But in all seriousness no-CP is pretty garbage nowdays

Never in regards to PvP. It's all about keeping Stamina builds as OP as possible with DMG, Executes, DoTs and Poison running from their ears, and Streamers happy. It's all about facerolling Magicka builds in ESO. Anyone thinking otherwise is facerolling magicka with their builds.

Just compare Stamina sets to Magicka sets. Stamina will get (in no particular popularity order, just examples) 450-515 WD for 15 seconds with yet a second buff, Magicka SD buffs last 2-4-5-6 seconds and no secondary buff.

I guess Magicka should stick to Undaunted Dungeons/Trials and Stamina to PvP.

Just thinking about this gives me a nose bleed lol.

Idinuse wrote: »

BuildMan wrote: »

How long did it take back in 2016, I cant remember but I think it was around 6 months. Oh them days, nothing like the old viper, widowmaker, velidreth (and also lets not forget black rose, viper, tremorscale)

But in all seriousness no-CP is pretty garbage nowdays

Never in regards to PvP. It's all about keeping Stamina builds as OP as possible with DMG, Executes, DoTs and Poison running from their ears, and Streamers happy. It's all about facerolling Magicka builds in ESO. Anyone thinking otherwise is facerolling magicka with their builds.

Just compare Stamina sets to Magicka sets. Stamina will get (in no particular popularity order, just examples) 450-515 WD for 15 seconds with yet a second buff, Magicka SD buffs last 2-4-5-6 seconds and no secondary buff.

I guess Magicka should stick to Undaunted Dungeons/Trials and Stamina to PvP.

Just thinking about this gives me a nose bleed lol.

Magicka has been historically stronger for group pvp due to stronger crossheals than stamina.

I play multiple mag classes in pvp and theyre 100% fine, not every spec has to be a god in solo play.

Once premade battlegrounds come back you will see that magicka is just fine for pvp.

Firstmep wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

BuildMan wrote: »

How long did it take back in 2016, I cant remember but I think it was around 6 months. Oh them days, nothing like the old viper, widowmaker, velidreth (and also lets not forget black rose, viper, tremorscale)

But in all seriousness no-CP is pretty garbage nowdays

Never in regards to PvP. It's all about keeping Stamina builds as OP as possible with DMG, Executes, DoTs and Poison running from their ears, and Streamers happy. It's all about facerolling Magicka builds in ESO. Anyone thinking otherwise is facerolling magicka with their builds.

Just compare Stamina sets to Magicka sets. Stamina will get (in no particular popularity order, just examples) 450-515 WD for 15 seconds with yet a second buff, Magicka SD buffs last 2-4-5-6 seconds and no secondary buff.

I guess Magicka should stick to Undaunted Dungeons/Trials and Stamina to PvP.

Just thinking about this gives me a nose bleed lol.

Magicka has been historically stronger for group pvp due to stronger crossheals than stamina.

I play multiple mag classes in pvp and theyre 100% fine, not every spec has to be a god in solo play.

Once premade battlegrounds come back you will see that magicka is just fine for pvp.

First of all, I think it's poor game design to force Magicka builds into dedicated, organized groups in order to be viable. Secondly, I disagree that Magicka classes are actually even better in those situations than Stamina builds are (maybe that's true for zerging, but I'd quit and uninstall before I started playing like that).

It has obviously been a while since premade-vs-premade-vs-premade BGs have been a thing, but from what I played of them a while back, I certainly wouldn't say that Magicka builds were superior for anything except dedicated heals (and even then a Stamina Warden might have been arguable, depending on the number of opposing negates). What mattered the most then was not being the team that eventually got sandwiched, and having superior mobility and anti-mobility skills were very important; hence Stamina's non-stop Bombard spam + dodge rolling and sprinting out of opposing roots.

And don't forget that a lot of Magicka-based heals are utter garbage now. The upcoming nerfs to Major/Minor Defile will help somewhat (though it helps Stam as well, of course), but Magicka cross healing is by no means what it was a year ago. Unless of course you know some way to get decent healing while still having worthwhile damage, survivability, and sustain that applies to all Magicka builds. If you do know some way to do that, please share with the rest of us.

BuildMan wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

BuildMan wrote: »

How long did it take back in 2016, I cant remember but I think it was around 6 months. Oh them days, nothing like the old viper, widowmaker, velidreth (and also lets not forget black rose, viper, tremorscale)

But in all seriousness no-CP is pretty garbage nowdays

Never in regards to PvP. It's all about keeping Stamina builds as OP as possible with DMG, Executes, DoTs and Poison running from their ears, and Streamers happy. It's all about facerolling Magicka builds in ESO. Anyone thinking otherwise is facerolling magicka with their builds.

Just compare Stamina sets to Magicka sets. Stamina will get (in no particular popularity order, just examples) 450-515 WD for 15 seconds with yet a second buff, Magicka SD buffs last 2-4-5-6 seconds and no secondary buff.

I guess Magicka should stick to Undaunted Dungeons/Trials and Stamina to PvP.

Just thinking about this gives me a nose bleed lol.

I'm trying to pick up magden again. Can't lie. Lack of execute hurts bad. So bad I might run bloodthirsty to see if that helps.

I haven't actively played my Magicka Warden in probably 1.5 - 2 years now, but from what I've seen in BGs lately I'd say that they're actually one of the better Magicka classes in the current meta. Not having an execute certainly stinks, but you can load up on proc sets and still have strong survivability and healing with Arctic Wind (and the morph to heal another target is actually incredibly strong with the right build).

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

BuildMan wrote: »

How long did it take back in 2016, I cant remember but I think it was around 6 months. Oh them days, nothing like the old viper, widowmaker, velidreth (and also lets not forget black rose, viper, tremorscale)

But in all seriousness no-CP is pretty garbage nowdays

Never in regards to PvP. It's all about keeping Stamina builds as OP as possible with DMG, Executes, DoTs and Poison running from their ears, and Streamers happy. It's all about facerolling Magicka builds in ESO. Anyone thinking otherwise is facerolling magicka with their builds.

Just compare Stamina sets to Magicka sets. Stamina will get (in no particular popularity order, just examples) 450-515 WD for 15 seconds with yet a second buff, Magicka SD buffs last 2-4-5-6 seconds and no secondary buff.

I guess Magicka should stick to Undaunted Dungeons/Trials and Stamina to PvP.

Just thinking about this gives me a nose bleed lol.

Magicka has been historically stronger for group pvp due to stronger crossheals than stamina.

I play multiple mag classes in pvp and theyre 100% fine, not every spec has to be a god in solo play.

Once premade battlegrounds come back you will see that magicka is just fine for pvp.

First of all, I think it's poor game design to force Magicka builds into dedicated, organized groups in order to be viable. Secondly, I disagree that Magicka classes are actually even better in those situations than Stamina builds are (maybe that's true for zerging, but I'd quit and uninstall before I started playing like that).

It has obviously been a while since premade-vs-premade-vs-premade BGs have been a thing, but from what I played of them a while back, I certainly wouldn't say that Magicka builds were superior for anything except dedicated heals (and even then a Stamina Warden might have been arguable, depending on the number of opposing negates). What mattered the most then was not being the team that eventually got sandwiched, and having superior mobility and anti-mobility skills were very important; hence Stamina's non-stop Bombard spam + dodge rolling and sprinting out of opposing roots.

And don't forget that a lot of Magicka-based heals are utter garbage now. The upcoming nerfs to Major/Minor Defile will help somewhat (though it helps Stam as well, of course), but Magicka cross healing is by no means what it was a year ago. Unless of course you know some way to get decent healing while still having worthwhile damage, survivability, and sustain that applies to all Magicka builds. If you do know some way to do that, please share with the rest of us.

BuildMan wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

BuildMan wrote: »

How long did it take back in 2016, I cant remember but I think it was around 6 months. Oh them days, nothing like the old viper, widowmaker, velidreth (and also lets not forget black rose, viper, tremorscale)

But in all seriousness no-CP is pretty garbage nowdays

Never in regards to PvP. It's all about keeping Stamina builds as OP as possible with DMG, Executes, DoTs and Poison running from their ears, and Streamers happy. It's all about facerolling Magicka builds in ESO. Anyone thinking otherwise is facerolling magicka with their builds.

Just compare Stamina sets to Magicka sets. Stamina will get (in no particular popularity order, just examples) 450-515 WD for 15 seconds with yet a second buff, Magicka SD buffs last 2-4-5-6 seconds and no secondary buff.

I guess Magicka should stick to Undaunted Dungeons/Trials and Stamina to PvP.

Just thinking about this gives me a nose bleed lol.

I'm trying to pick up magden again. Can't lie. Lack of execute hurts bad. So bad I might run bloodthirsty to see if that helps.

I haven't actively played my Magicka Warden in probably 1.5 - 2 years now, but from what I've seen in BGs lately I'd say that they're actually one of the better Magicka classes in the current meta. Not having an execute certainly stinks, but you can load up on proc sets and still have strong survivability and healing with Arctic Wind (and the morph to heal another target is actually incredibly strong with the right build).

Procs would make things easy for sure. But I would rather put in more work, instead of letting the armor do the heavy lifting for me. Makes kills more rewarding.

Beats me. I wouldn't wait around to find out though.

When 4k+Health recovery build became viable only for tanks, not for DD.

Considering they are releasing more instant damage proc sets with Markarth... not going to happen.

Can't wait to get insta-gibbed by this build:

Curse of Doylemish
2 items: Adds 1206 Maximum Health
3 items: Adds 1206 Maximum Health
4 items: Adds 129 Weapon Damage and Spell Damage
5 items: When using a fully-charged melee Heavy Attack on a taunted monster or any enemy who is stunned, feared, or immobilized, you will deal 12507 Physical Damage. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds.

Explosive Rebuke back barred
2 items: Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
3 items: Adds 1206 Maximum Health
4 items: Adds 129 Weapon Damage and Spell Damage
5 items: When you successfully block, you place a bomb on the enemy for 10 seconds. When they are hit with a fully-charged Heavy Attack, the bomb detonates, dealing 13150 Flame Damage to all enemies within 8 meters. This effect can occur once every 8 seconds.

Perfected Frenzied Momentum
1 item: Adds 877 Maximum Stamina
2 items: While Momentum is active, casting Stamina Abilities generates a stack of Frenzied Momentum for 10 seconds, up to 5 times. Upon reaching max stacks, your next Heavy Attack will consume all stacks and release a violent explosion of energy around your target, dealing 9028 Physical Damage to them and all enemies within 8 meters of them.

1 item: Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
2 items: When you activate a taunt ability on an enemy, you cause a duneripper to burst from the ground beneath them after 1 second, dealing 6000 Physical Damage to all enemies within 4 meters and reducing their Physical Resistance by 2395 for 8 seconds. This effect can occur once every 8 seconds.

Buffed pierce armor with Tremorscale for 11,317 penetration on one skill, dizzy swing for off-balance, heavy attack buffed by 70% on off balance targets, +34,685 instant proc damage (22,178 of which is AOE), then execute / ultimate (do you even need to after that?)

Don't need sustain since all you are doing is heavy attacking and stack as much health and damage mitigation as possible since your sets are going to one-shot people.

Congrats you are now one-shotting people in full heavy armor with 40k health.

@DTStormfox In my opinion Harbinger is a hard counter to Direct Damage AoEs. If you or your group are entirely specced into this category of skills you're at a dead-end against a Harbinger tank. In this way Harbinger enables "tanking" in PvP in a novel and interesting way. What do you think? Do you find its OP if you / your group have access to strong DOTs, and you're coming at those the tank protects with Single Target DD rather than spamming AoE DD against the whole group?

@Abhaya Have you used Doylemish before? It's not uncommon (in Xbox NA BGs) for it to have 0 procs over the course of a BG round, its timing is very finicky. We'll see how these new sets are but Doylemish alone shouldn't cause much anxiety. It's possible there's more consistent timing with landing this proc on PC than on Console, however. I've used it since 2018, and the diminution of its cooldown from 7 seconds to 4 seconds barely made a difference in its overall potency in BGs.

Yeah, it's a great set, I've ran it for years and had much fun with it, but Explosive Rebuke definitely sounds more reliable next patch. There's another (very old) Heavy Attack set that seems like it might go even better with Explosive Rebuke than Doylemish..

Goregrinder wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Yeah, it's a great set, I've ran it for years and had much fun with it, but Explosive Rebuke definitely sounds more reliable next patch. There's another (very old) Heavy Attack set that seems like it might go even better with Explosive Rebuke than Doylemish..

Noice so that might be a replacement for harbinger builds if harbinger sees any nerfs then huh?

Yeah Rebuke is definitely an option to complement or replace Harbinger, but that 10 second thing might be purgeable and might proc things like Necro's negative effect healing buff.

It definitely won't punish players the way Harbinger does. Again I think Harbinger is an interesting addition to PvP (now that it's not underpowered as it was for years) in how it forces DDs/Groups to adapt and not rely on a limited bag of tricks. Granted I'm a tankish type player - but I also do ~50% of my damage with Brawler, so it gets me good.