There is one thing I would like to see added to the Code of Conduct to help the Roleplay community.

Thevampirenight · October 2020

Here is the thing, Roleplayers like myself do tend to like go to a certain location, and this location we roleplay at. Though would be nice to see rp hubs all over Tamriel. Its just not the case. Then we have people that think their dueling is either roleplay or its intentionally disrupting roleplay and they don't have much respect some of them others might enjoy watching but also liking to due. Its fine if its just couple of them but sometimes they come in with several and they are doing this and they make it harder sometimes its more then that and they spam and duel all over the tavern some just keep it near the fire place.
What I want to see added to the Code of Conduct, not disrupting roleplay through, dueling spamming ability effects mementos whatever in the attempt to disrupt roleplayers. This I want to see added because there are those types of people. Thoiugh the ones I'm referring to seem to be mostly duelers. But it drives roleplayers off and then its likely if people moved they would follow to disrupt roleplay.
The fact of it is people do Intentionally disrupt people just because they like to roleplay.
So can the Code of Conduct be updated to include trolling by means of dueling, momentos and ability spam. That would be a great help.
These two screenshots, as you can see is the exact reason why I want to see this in the Code of Conduit.
This is the type of behavior from trolls and those that disrespect an entire community of people just because they like to do what Zenimax officially supports, They find us weird so they target us because of this. Code of conduct might not specify against harassing roleplayers they might not think they are doing anything wrong some of them.

Those words are the exact reason why I want to see them to do something about this by actually specifying against harassment against roleplayers. Look at them read them understand what roleplayers face. Not trying to shame the person, as that is against the code of conduct. But I am showing these off to expose what really is happening.

starkerealm · October 2020

Most of that already falls under the header of harassment.

zvavi · October 2020

Tbh I think even if they added it to code of conduct they wouldn't be monitoring it so it doesn't matter. What is needed in my opinion is the option to invite people to your houses through chat, that way you can invite people in and kick uninvited spammy guests.

Thevampirenight · October 2020

starkerealm wrote: »

Most of that already falls under the header of harassment.

No there needs to be an actual thing covering this alone. This would make those people know that disrupting roleplay is against their code of conduct. Harassment is a bit vague and is the typical stuff you see in most Codes of Conduct, No there needs to be something in there that people can see quite clearly that isn't part of that general harassment statement that points out this type of behavior directly.

That anyone that singles out roleplayers to troll them or disrupt them is not tolerated. That if they intentionally disrupting roleplayers. That this is strictly prohibited. So yeah I want this to have its own section outside harassment in its own section next to the God Modding so people see plain and clear. As they might not see what they are doing as harassment.

starkerealm · October 2020

Thevampirenight wrote: »

So yeah I want this to have its own section outside harassment in its own section next to the God Modding...

Excuse me, but, what?

What!?

I know what god modding is. You're telling me you think that poor role-playing habits should also violate the terms of service? No. Absolutely not. It's not your place to determine what is, or is not sufficiently skillful role-play. Just like you don't want me auditing your characters and telling you whether they're up to my standards for lore friendliness, and then punishing your account if you're found wanting.

If someone's spamming you with active abilities in the bar trying to crash your game, you can report them for harassment.

If someone's spamming you with duel invites, you can report them for harassment, and you can auto-decline duels in your social settings.

If someone doesn't live up to your expectations for RP etiquette, get out. Just, out.

Thevampirenight · October 2020

zvavi wrote: »

Tbh I think even if they added it to code of conduct they wouldn't be monitoring it so it doesn't matter. What is needed in my opinion is the option to invite people to your houses through chat, that way you can invite people in and kick uninvited spammy guests.

Well its really easy to spot them and send in a video of it if you take one for evidence they know who they are. The thing is by specifying this would hopefully solve the issue and they will take it somewhere where its not disruptive.

starkerealm wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

So yeah I want this to have its own section outside harassment in its own section next to the God Modding...

Excuse me, but, what?

What!?

I know what god modding is. You're telling me you think that poor role-playing habits should also violate the terms of service? No. Absolutely not. It's not your place to determine what is, or is not sufficiently skillful role-play. Just like you don't want me auditing your characters and telling you whether they're up to my standards for lore friendliness, and then punishing your account if you're found wanting.

If someone's spamming you with active abilities in the bar trying to crash your game, you can report them for harassment.

If someone's spamming you with duel invites, you can report them for harassment, and you can auto-decline duels in your social settings.

If someone doesn't live up to your expectations for RP etiquette, get out. Just, out.

Well I know what its like to start out as a bad roleplayer and slowly have to learn the hard way and improve a lot over time over years of various mmo rp experience. So I'm not as keen with the godmodding rule as people may not know that and well it may take them a bit of time to learn. This however I do think needs to be included. God Modding can be talked out or people can ignore that. They don't need to ban people or discipline people for god modding. What I acutally want to see is more rules on people going out of the way to harass and disrupt roleplay. That is what I want to see on there just like they added in the Stream Snipping thing. They need to specify this that way people know that isn't allowed.

People don't often do the duel invites and that isn't the problem. Its them driving people away and if they go else where another public place they would likely follow. Now not all of them are bad some like to watch and some are mindful enough to keep it in one location not moving all around the place.

badmojo · October 2020

They should make it so dueling in a tavern is a criminal offense. Maybe even the entire city limits.

UntilValhalla13 · October 2020

badmojo wrote: »

They should make it so dueling in a tavern is a criminal offense. Maybe even the entire city limits.

I've said that for years. The long loading screens in certain cities, like Vulkel Guard and Stonefalls, are really bad because people are literally dueling on the wayshrine, endlessly. Like, I'm minding my own business, in menus, traders, or crafting, and then my controller starts shaking because one of them dropped a meteor nearby.

Thevampirenight · October 2020

badmojo wrote: »

They should make it so dueling in a tavern is a criminal offense. Maybe even the entire city limits.

They added in this very nice dueling arena when they added in the dueling system problem is no one goes there to use it. Not only that there is no incentive to use it at all. What I would like to see is them adding dueling dallies and achievements for beating certain types of classes and players that is exclusive to that arena and other dueling arenas they could add in. Also adding a way shrine near the arena itself so players can just port to it easy which is another problem with the Stormhaven arena.
So I would like to see them do something about that by making the one arena a lot more important that way people will have to use it. Dueling system does need that type of thing and even events for such arenas should be done. Which would be rather interesting. They could even add in quests for spectating fights in the dueling arena.

JKorr · October 2020

Role-players should be left alone. It would be nice, however, if the role-players would make a group, and use group chat, instead of broadcasting their stories zone-wide.

WaywardArgonian · October 2020

I think it's already covered by the TOS in the form of harassment. If someone engages in disruptive behavior, you ask them to leave you alone, and they continue to engage in that disruptive behavior, that should constitute as harassment regardless of what the exact action is. It's difficult to say exactly what consequences this has as ZOS does not typically disclose much about the disciplinary measures they take, but I have read that people got reprimanded for trolling RP'ers with mudballs before. Same with teabagging iirc.

Other than that, when RP'ing in the open world I usually try to find spots that are a bit out of the way out of questing hubs and such. For instance, I avoid starter zones such as Stros M'Kai or Kenarthi's Roost, as there are tons of questers about, and newer players might not be as aware of player etiquette as your typical veteran. It might not be ideal, but it's something to keep in mind.

Thevampirenight · October 2020

JKorr wrote: »

Role-players should be left alone. It would be nice, however, if the role-players would make a group, and use group chat, instead of broadcasting their stories zone-wide.

Say and Emote chat exist for roleplaying.
Though group and zone is more for general stuff.
Say can be used for more local. Roleplay isn't broadcasted zone wide. Say and Emote only can be seen from so far and that is more limited and can only be seen in small area like a tavern and if you move so far from it you can't see it at all. Yell Chat has a longer reach. Though and rp seen within that chat would likely be seen from a much farther distance even from outside inns.
So roleplay isn't zone wide as you think it is. Its more then likely just near your location where you are if you see it.
So when it comes to Roleplay, General tavern rp is Say/Emote and you won't see it zone wide. Unless its done in Zone chat. Or maybe even yell chat as I'm not sure how far that goes.

Grianasteri · October 2020

Given how liberally the existing Code of Conduct is applied, (as in, inappropriately), I tend to disagree it needs even more rules that can be interpreted in any number of ways.

Also, how can dueling be used to troll? You only duel if you accept it and you can set yourself to auto reject duel requests.

Memento and ability spam could be annoying, but Id hardly class it as trolling when you can just walk away and more than this, again, it will be subjective as to what qualifies as trolling, just as so much of the Code of Conduct currently is open to interpretation.

starkerealm · October 2020

Thevampirenight wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

Role-players should be left alone. It would be nice, however, if the role-players would make a group, and use group chat, instead of broadcasting their stories zone-wide.

Say and Emote chat exist for roleplaying.
Though group and zone is more for general stuff.
Say can be used for more local. Roleplay isn't broadcasted zone wide. Say and Emote only can be seen from so far and that is more limited and can only be seen in your general area and if you move so far from it you can't see it at all.. Yell Chat has a longer reach. Though and rp seen within that chat would likely be seen from a much farther distance even from outside inns.
So roleplay isn't zone wide as you think it is. Its more then likely just near your location where you are if you see it.
So when it comes to Roleplay, General tavern rp is Say/Emote.

Emote, sure. Say... not so much. That's a general, local chat. I know the RP community likes to think of it as theirs, but Say has a lot of OoC use, especially since it's the default chat choice for the window. Log in, and you're talking in /say until you remember and change to zone or your guild. Yell has no purpose, as far as I can tell.

Thevampirenight · October 2020

Grianasteri wrote: »

Given how liberally the existing Code of Conduct is applied, (as in, inappropriately), I tend to disagree it needs even more rules that can be interpreted in any number of ways.

Also, how can dueling be used to troll? You only duel if you accept it and you can set yourself to auto reject duel requests.

Memento and ability spam could be annoying, but Id hardly class it as trolling when you can just walk away and more than this, again, it will be subjective as to what qualifies as trolling, just as so much of the Code of Conduct currently is open to interpretation.

Here is how it is, they duel all around the tavern area it brings a lot of particles and other effects. The dueling itself isn't as much the issue is they are clearly not roleplayers and they disrupt the general setting if there is many duelists. Like for example they use to like duel outside the Rift inn but then they moved when the community moved. They duel intentionally in areas that people gather to roleplay. Then yeah if there is many of them then they clog the say chat and I could ignore them but I don't like doing that. I only use ignore list for bots really. So a lot of unneeded ooc clutter because of that.

One thing that could help is well disabling the ability within the inn itself that can work. Then they would have to do it outside.

richo262 · October 2020

What if they themselves are role playing as drunken patrons?

SeaGtGruff · October 2020

badmojo wrote: »

They should make it so dueling in a tavern is a criminal offense. Maybe even the entire city limits.

I'm conflicted on this.

On the one hand, I think it seems perfectly reasonable to expect (if the game's world were a real world) that dueling in the vicinity of a guard would likely attract the attention of the guard and lead to some kind of reaction-- I'm not sure what; just a fine? chased? insta-killed?

On the other hand, since dueling is a thing that's accommodated or built into the game, and dueling in towns is clearly allowed if guards are just walking through the middle of duels as though nothing's happening, then any attempts by ZOS now to curtail dueling by making it a criminal offense-- even if it were only in certain locations-- would probably be met by a massive uproar.

And yet, certain actions by necromancers, vampires, and werewolves(?) are criminal offenses if done in town, not to mention the simple act of opening a shipment of stolen goods which came from a thieves trove that no one saw you take (so how did the guards in town know that the goods were stolen? were there magical fireworks or something that went off upon opening the shipment in town, like those packs of exploding dye that get put into bags of stolen cash?).

So it does seem like the justice system could maybe benefit from a bit of tweaking with respect to dueling in patrolled areas.

Thevampirenight · October 2020

richo262 wrote: »

What if they themselves are role playing as drunken patrons?

Nothing wrong with roleplaying a drunk person.
That is if they make efforts to roleplay as being drunk and being serious about the roleplay.
Immersive style roleplaying.

VaranisArano · October 2020

I could see this working if there were assigned spots for role-playing.

But there aren't, and roleplayers don't get to "claim" areas simply by virtue of roleplaying there.

Harassment already covers intentional acts of disruption or trolling. Otherwise, other players can play how they want near roleplayers.

If you want protected areas for roleplayers, it seems like a more fruitful avenue of approach would be to ask for actual safe areas for roleplayers with behavioral expectations, dueling disabled, skills disabled, and longer cooldowns on mementos. If you are having such problems that the current TOS on harassment is that hard to enforce, these safe areas would be much easier to monitor and enforce roleplaying etiquette than the whole game area.

Wolfpaw · October 2020

Oh the days when rp players had their own server in mmorpgs.

Vevvev · October 2020

JKorr wrote: »

Role-players should be left alone. It would be nice, however, if the role-players would make a group, and use group chat, instead of broadcasting their stories zone-wide.

As I roleplayer myself I agree! Zone chat shouldn't be used for roleplaying at all outside of player instanced homes.

Although sometimes there are events that grow to be so large they go over the group cap. Even then that's what /yell, /say, and /emote chats are for. Yell goes the farthest and doesn't send it to every single person in the entire zone.

Araxleon · October 2020

I used to duel outside the rift and moved to Rivenspire to duel.
I go back and forth between hanging out at both spots and dueling.
Believe it or not as much as you view it as a negative thing I had made lots of friends and have helped out some RPers with builds and getting into PVP.
We come back for a reason, maybe 1 or 2 get upset, but we have like 5 to 10 people who enjoy it and whisper us.
Personally I think the option to block particle effects and hide the player model of someone you block would be better.

Daemons_Bane · October 2020

Could they not just say they were role-playing too.? It's not really easy to judge

Grandchamp1989 · October 2020

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Here is the thing, Roleplayers like myself do tend to like go to a certain location, and this location we roleplay at. Though would be nice to see rp hubs all over Tamriel. Its just not the case. Then we have people that think their dueling is either roleplay or its intentionally disrupting roleplay and they don't have much respect some of them others might enjoy watching but also liking to due. Its fine if its just couple of them but sometimes they come in with several and they are doing this and they make it harder sometimes its more then that and they spam and duel all over the tavern some just keep it near the fire place.
What I want to see added to the Code of Conduct, not disrupting roleplay through, dueling spamming ability effects mementos whatever in the attempt to disrupt roleplayers. This I want to see added because there are those types of people. Thoiugh the ones I'm referring to seem to be mostly duelers. But it drives roleplayers off and then its likely if people moved they would follow to disrupt roleplay.
The fact of it is people do Intentionally disrupt people just because they like to roleplay.
So can the Code of Conduct be updated to include trolling by means of dueling, momentos and ability spam. That would be a great help.

Roleplayers only have a couple of Inns where they meet up and interact with other likeminded.
It's not like PVE's who got all of craglorn to spam for trials or Cyrodiil for PVP.

People should respect this and not be ***. But lately I've seen a huge influx of people with a less than optimal attitude..

Aznarb · October 2020

Never understand why some *** have to annoy RP player..
People that annoy / harass other player should just get a straight ban def.

The_Old_Goat · October 2020

I don't duel or rp but I'll occasionally stop by when I see the blue text because I find the vocabulary and story being acted out very interesting. I really don't think it's too much to ask that these rp events be allowed to retain the integrity of the story without the intrusion of dueling. Just out of curiosity, how do the rp people feel about a person that stops by and drops a few lines into the conversation(as unobtrusively as possible)?

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo · October 2020

I roleplay twice a week with a group and if we happen to be in a public area and someone comes and sits in the middle of us or types we just write : 'We are roleplaying, thank you' if it continues we just ignore and continue...they run off if no one replies to them...it's attention grabbing

I don't think we need to ban people in a public area.

zergbase_ESO · October 2020

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Here is the thing, Roleplayers like myself do tend to like go to a certain location, and this location we roleplay at. Though would be nice to see rp hubs all over Tamriel. Its just not the case. Then we have people that think their dueling is either roleplay or its intentionally disrupting roleplay and they don't have much respect some of them others might enjoy watching but also liking to due. Its fine if its just couple of them but sometimes they come in with several and they are doing this and they make it harder sometimes its more then that and they spam and duel all over the tavern some just keep it near the fire place.
What I want to see added to the Code of Conduct, not disrupting roleplay through, dueling spamming ability effects mementos whatever in the attempt to disrupt roleplayers. This I want to see added because there are those types of people. Thoiugh the ones I'm referring to seem to be mostly duelers. But it drives roleplayers off and then its likely if people moved they would follow to disrupt roleplay.
The fact of it is people do Intentionally disrupt people just because they like to roleplay.
So can the Code of Conduct be updated to include trolling by means of dueling, momentos and ability spam. That would be a great help.

As much as I would like to see this. They will not. They barely enforce anything hence why majority rp is instanced in housing now.

From what I heard Streamers promote RP harassment in this game as well so hence why majority of it goes into instance housing now.

starkerealm · October 2020

VaranisArano wrote: »

But there aren't, and roleplayers don't get to "claim" areas simply by virtue of roleplaying there.

While I agree, the RPers have been pushed into a corner here.

Some segments of the PvP community do, intentionally, harass them, and try to drive them off when encountered. The Withered Tree was something of a last refuge for them. (Not sure where they're congregating now.)

There for a while they'd spam high particle effect abilities around RPers specifically because it would crash the client on lower end systems. I'm not taking that from the RPers telling me that, it's coming from a PvPer in one of my guilds who thought it was hilarious. Yeah, this stuff absolutely happened.

So, in that sense, I agree, and I'll still mock the RPers who flipped out at me for "breaking into" "their house" back in 2014 (before the Justice system was added.) But, there is habitual harassment going on, and RPers are pushed out of spaces they want to use.

SgtNuttzmeg · October 2020

ESO like an MMO is a shared space. There are legitimately thousands of people playing at one time. People do all sorts of things in weird and random places. As a player that is a member of the RP and PVP community from what I have seen most people that troll like this are random questers that happen to end up in the same location. Saying that it is one group of players doing this is disingenuous.

For those of you that regularly experience this issue I recommend doing what my guild does which is not interacting with said trolls. It works surprisingly well and 99% of the time trolls will get bored and move on within 5 mins or less.

As for duels they are fine, no need to make adjustments. Most duels don't occur in the dueling arenas because there is no point of fighting in them and it is far more convenient to be closer to a major hub like Wayrest.

But ultimately it goes back to the fact that this is an MMO. There are thousands of players online they are bound to crosspaths with rpers. Most aren't trolls and won't mess with you and those that you only do so because you react. Be smart about how you interact in open world spaces and you will see a significant decrease of trolls.

opaj · October 2020

The_Old_Goat wrote: »

I don't duel or rp but I'll occasionally stop by when I see the blue text because I find the vocabulary and story being acted out very interesting. I really don't think it's too much to ask that these rp events be allowed to retain the integrity of the story without the intrusion of dueling. Just out of curiosity, how do the rp people feel about a person that stops by and drops a few lines into the conversation(as unobtrusively as possible)?

I'm more of a 'former RPer', though I'll also drop in if I see it happening in the open world. In fact, I'm always a little sad when I see a group of obvious RPers who are keeping to group, because getting to read what they're saying makes the world feel more lived in. Anyway, I always enjoy having someone drop in, as long as they're making a good-faith effort and not obviously trolling. It's okay if that player isn't a lore master or doesn't have a sensible in-universe name.

Back in my day, ZOS was extraordinarily on top of it in terms of getting rid of trolls. They'd even actively monitor major RP events, ready to boot any offenders. I don't think expanding the TOS will really change anything; it all comes down to how actively Zenimax is enforcing them.