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Clockwork city needs to be added to base game
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Arunei✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@VaranisArano
And what about the smaller Guilds that honestly can't afford it, or the people who decide they don't want to fill their limited Guild slots with all trading Guilds and instead have them split up between things like PvP, RP, trading, specific tasks like fishing, and so on? Sure, you can say that Guilds can make it a 'group effort', but that should be something Guilds do for fun, not because it's necessary in order be able to afford something that expensive. Luckily my main trading Guild has one so I wouldn't be affected, but two of my other Guilds are RP ones, a third is a Guild I'm in with a few friends so we can have the Guild bank for extra storage. The last one is a social/trading/RP Guild, but I don't think we have a Transmute Station there. For people who literally are in five smaller Guilds (and not everyone is in a trading Guild, remember) the advice of "oh just have your Guild make it a group thing" isn't really advice, or much of a solution.
What harm would it be in introducing a Transmute Station to a base area of the game? I don't really see why people would be against it, because it isn't like making said Station available in the base game is going to hurt the economy on these. Given how much they are, I have a feeling they don't really sell that often, and I'd have to do the math to know for sure, but I feel like people could spend fewer Writ Vouchers on less expensive items from Rolis to make more than they'd get from selling Stations. It's usually easier to sell a lot of less expensive items than one really expensive item (depending on the availability and demand of said items, obviously).PC-NA | Been around since closed beta
Avid RPer. Hit me up in-game @Ras_Lei if you're interested in getting together for some arr-pee shenanigans!
RP Characters:
Sarah Lacroix: Breton Vampire who really really REALLY likes likes learning Magick and also her Altmer husbando
Kaalhil Swiftstrike: Tiny shapeshifting monster hunter Bosmeri lady with enough sass to kill a dragon or ten
Gwendolyn Jenelle: Friendly healer with a coffee addiction and her own medical practice
Krisiel: Literally crazy Werewolf, no like legit insane. She nuts
Kiju Veran: Ex-Fighters Guild Suthay who likes to punch things and is also a spy and ALSO a Werewolf
Niralae Elsinal: Young Altmeri woman with way too much Magicka and Vampire husbando
Slondor: TESified Slenderman, except lazier and has more of a thing for deals than Clavicus Vile does
Marius Vastino: Sarah's Imperial apathetic sire who likes to monologue
Lirawyn Calatare: Traveling performer and bard who's 101% vanilla bean
Soliril Larethian: Blind alchemist who uses animals to see and brews plagues in his spare time1 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Zenimax already does do the same. WoW provides all the previous content to those who subscribe and that is exactly what happens in ESO.
This conversation is not about subscriptions, its about allowing the player to play the content when they do not have a sub.
You can not access clockwork city with a chapter purchase. You can not access any of the DPC with a chapter purchase.
In wow 100% of the content is available to the player, not for a sub, but for the latest purchase. Paid subscriptions ARE NOT a requirement to play World of Warcraft in its entirety.
This is incorrect. You do not need a subscription to play wow in it's entirety, you do need to purchase 30 days of time with gold in game. You do however need a subscription to play ESO in it's entirety.Zenimax does one better than Blizard does with WoW. If we choose to end our subscription for a short while we can still log into the game and do something. That is much more than we can do in WoW without an active sub.
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Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
So ESO works exactly like WOW here with the bonus that you can still play ESO if not subscribed.To everyone saying people can just buy one, you do realize how much they cost, right? They're 1,250 Vouchers, and the average price gold-wise is around 900k. So no, it's not exactly realistic for people to just casually go out and buy one of these things. And no, not every guild has one, either, simply because of the cost. It would make more sense to have them added to some base area.
Agreed. I have 5 trade guilds, they dont all have this item and only one of them has all the attunable crafting stations.
When World of Warcraft releases a new expansion, all the previous expansions are included in the new expansion. This is to ensure all the players are on the same page.
Zenimax should do the same. When a new expansion comes out, all the previous ones should be included in the base game.
technically - they are. IF you are a subscriber.
You do not have to subscribe for 15.00 a month in wow, you can trade in game gold for play time.
someone paid $20 each for those monthly tokens. they are not just generated into the game, Blizzard gets their money one way or another - they get more money via token exchange in fact.
by that same merit - you can pay gold in ESO to have those DLC's be gifted to you. again, wow makes it safer to trade and in that regard - they are doing it better. BUT... the essential idea is not that different at all.
The discussion is not about a company getting paid or not, the discussion is about previous expansions being part of the base game. In ESO they are not, in WOW they are.
Wows monetization model is much more up front and honest. You pay 15 bucks a month ,or buy a token, and the entire game is playable. Not even REMOTELY close to ESO where most content is hidden behind a cash shop, on top of a game purchase, on top of a sub.
Subscribe to ESO and unlock access to that content. It really is that simple.
I have been a subscriber to ESO+ for every single month I have played the game for 3 years. In wow, you dont need to pay for a sub to access 100% of the content, you just need to purchase 30 days of time in game with gold in game.Edited by Raideen on October 26, 2020 4:11AM1 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
So ESO works exactly like WOW here with the bonus that you can still play ESO if not subscribed.To everyone saying people can just buy one, you do realize how much they cost, right? They're 1,250 Vouchers, and the average price gold-wise is around 900k. So no, it's not exactly realistic for people to just casually go out and buy one of these things. And no, not every guild has one, either, simply because of the cost. It would make more sense to have them added to some base area.
Agreed. I have 5 trade guilds, they dont all have this item and only one of them has all the attunable crafting stations.
When World of Warcraft releases a new expansion, all the previous expansions are included in the new expansion. This is to ensure all the players are on the same page.
Zenimax should do the same. When a new expansion comes out, all the previous ones should be included in the base game.
technically - they are. IF you are a subscriber.
You do not have to subscribe for 15.00 a month in wow, you can trade in game gold for play time.
someone paid $20 each for those monthly tokens. they are not just generated into the game, Blizzard gets their money one way or another - they get more money via token exchange in fact.
by that same merit - you can pay gold in ESO to have those DLC's be gifted to you. again, wow makes it safer to trade and in that regard - they are doing it better. BUT... the essential idea is not that different at all.
The discussion is not about a company getting paid or not, the discussion is about previous expansions being part of the base game. In ESO they are not, in WOW they are.
Wows monetization model is much more up front and honest. You pay 15 bucks a month ,or buy a token, and the entire game is playable. Not even REMOTELY close to ESO where most content is hidden behind a cash shop, on top of a game purchase, on top of a sub.
ESO has its monetanization issues (boy does it ever), HOWEVER. you CAN buy every single one of the dlc's in ESO? with gold. so for the purposes of this argument and ever shifting goalposts of yours? it is still comparable.
and btw, making gold in WoW is HARDER then making gold in ESO for an average player. how do I know? I have been buying tokens in WoW for YEARS now. i have MUCH easier time making gold in ESO. there are more, steadier avenues and inflation is not NEARLY as bad and you are not at the mercy of being stuck on a dying server with nonexistent economy (unless you grind up even MORE gold and transfer all your characters, in hopes that the new server you pick - is not going to die in a few years on you).
and to reiterate. you have to keep making that gold to keep accessing WoW. the longer you play, the more gold you have to make to keep playing. in ESO - once you buy those DLC's with gold? they. are. YOURS. forever (or at least for as long as the game is active). if you want to stop making gold and focus on something else? you can. in WoW that need to buy tokens does NOT go away. you cannot buy a few tokens and unlock acess permanently. in ESO? you CAN. how do I know? my secondary account has every single story DLC unlocked. I didn't bother with DLC dungeons cause I dislike them. every single one with exception of Murkmire and imperial city (for obvious reasons) - was acquired through crown trading.Edited by Linaleah on October 26, 2020 5:08AMdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***3 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Zenimax already does do the same. WoW provides all the previous content to those who subscribe and that is exactly what happens in ESO.
This conversation is not about subscriptions, its about allowing the player to play the content when they do not have a sub.
You can not access clockwork city with a chapter purchase. You can not access any of the DPC with a chapter purchase.
In wow 100% of the content is available to the player, not for a sub, but for the latest purchase. Paid subscriptions ARE NOT a requirement to play World of Warcraft in its entirety.
This is incorrect. You do not need a subscription to play wow in it's entirety, you do need to purchase 30 days of time with gold in game. You do however need a subscription to play ESO in it's entirety.Zenimax does one better than Blizard does with WoW. If we choose to end our subscription for a short while we can still log into the game and do something. That is much more than we can do in WoW without an active sub.
True, this discussion is not about subscriptions. However, you brought up that WoW grants access to the existing content to all players when they add an expansion but merely left out the correct context that this only applies to those who are currently subscribed to WoW.
Also, that 30 days time is in fact a subscription via a different means. Zos does things differently in that they still grant access to much of the game even when we have no subscription of any kind.
Edit: And another player is the one who paid the real-world money. That means, in fact, that all subscriptions time, even 30 days, requires real-world money. It is irrelevant that one player paid gold because another player paid the cold hard cash.
Edited by idk on October 26, 2020 5:14AM5 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Zenimax already does do the same. WoW provides all the previous content to those who subscribe and that is exactly what happens in ESO.
This conversation is not about subscriptions, its about allowing the player to play the content when they do not have a sub.
You can not access clockwork city with a chapter purchase. You can not access any of the DPC with a chapter purchase.
In wow 100% of the content is available to the player, not for a sub, but for the latest purchase. Paid subscriptions ARE NOT a requirement to play World of Warcraft in its entirety.
This is incorrect. You do not need a subscription to play wow in it's entirety, you do need to purchase 30 days of time with gold in game. You do however need a subscription to play ESO in it's entirety.Zenimax does one better than Blizard does with WoW. If we choose to end our subscription for a short while we can still log into the game and do something. That is much more than we can do in WoW without an active sub.
this is factually false. regardless of HOW you get game time - getting that gametime is required to acess wow past lvl 20 (or is it lvl 10 now, not sure, since there is level squish and I haven't checked what it does to free trial). you have to have active subscription to play the rest of the game. that is NON NEGOTIABLE. you have to keep BUYING subscription. again - how you get those tokens is neither here nor there (especially since crown for gold trading in ESO exists)
the one thing that WoW does objectively better when it comes to this - is transaction safety. it is assured by blizzard. there is no risk to either seller or buyer.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***5 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Zenimax already does do the same. WoW provides all the previous content to those who subscribe and that is exactly what happens in ESO.
This conversation is not about subscriptions, its about allowing the player to play the content when they do not have a sub.
You can not access clockwork city with a chapter purchase. You can not access any of the DPC with a chapter purchase.
In wow 100% of the content is available to the player, not for a sub, but for the latest purchase. Paid subscriptions ARE NOT a requirement to play World of Warcraft in its entirety.
This is incorrect. You do not need a subscription to play wow in it's entirety, you do need to purchase 30 days of time with gold in game. You do however need a subscription to play ESO in it's entirety.Zenimax does one better than Blizard does with WoW. If we choose to end our subscription for a short while we can still log into the game and do something. That is much more than we can do in WoW without an active sub.
this is factually false. regardless of HOW you get game time - getting that gametime is required to acess wow past lvl 20 (or is it lvl 10 now, not sure, since there is level squish and I haven't checked what it does to free trial). you have to have active subscription to play the rest of the game. that is NON NEGOTIABLE. you have to keep BUYING subscription. again - how you get those tokens is neither here nor there (especially since crown for gold trading in ESO exists)
the one thing that WoW does objectively better when it comes to this - is transaction safety. it is assured by blizzard. there is no risk to either seller or buyer.
Thank you for bringing in this information to add clarity to the fact that game time still has to be purchased and regardless of how someone obtains their game access that it all starts with real-world money. The fact someone paid another player in-game gold is irrelevant since that seller purchased it from the cash shop, to begin with.6 -
LadySinflower✭✭✭✭✭I mean I doubt it will happen, but maybe microsoft will put a bit less emphasis on monetizing everything. After all, they are much larger and richer than ZOS. When I worked doing Xbox tech support, microsoft was VERY generous giving us money for incentives and swag. Big corporations are notoriously greedy but they are also fairly smart. They hire people to analyze everything and try to make the best choices to keep people interested in buying their products. Hopefully we'll see less monetization in the future.2 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Zenimax already does do the same. WoW provides all the previous content to those who subscribe and that is exactly what happens in ESO.
This conversation is not about subscriptions, its about allowing the player to play the content when they do not have a sub.
You can not access clockwork city with a chapter purchase. You can not access any of the DPC with a chapter purchase.
In wow 100% of the content is available to the player, not for a sub, but for the latest purchase. Paid subscriptions ARE NOT a requirement to play World of Warcraft in its entirety.
This is incorrect. You do not need a subscription to play wow in it's entirety, you do need to purchase 30 days of time with gold in game. You do however need a subscription to play ESO in it's entirety.Zenimax does one better than Blizard does with WoW. If we choose to end our subscription for a short while we can still log into the game and do something. That is much more than we can do in WoW without an active sub.
this is factually false. regardless of HOW you get game time - getting that gametime is required to acess wow past lvl 20 (or is it lvl 10 now, not sure, since there is level squish and I haven't checked what it does to free trial). you have to have active subscription to play the rest of the game. that is NON NEGOTIABLE. you have to keep BUYING subscription. again - how you get those tokens is neither here nor there (especially since crown for gold trading in ESO exists)
the one thing that WoW does objectively better when it comes to this - is transaction safety. it is assured by blizzard. there is no risk to either seller or buyer.
Sorry, you are 100% incorrect. You do NOT have to pay a subscription with REAL money in order to access wow. You can pay for your 30 day game time with gold in game. Paying for 30 days of game time with gold in game, or with a credit card gives you IDENTICAL ACCESS to ALL the content in World of Warcraft. This is NOT the case with ESO.1 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Zenimax already does do the same. WoW provides all the previous content to those who subscribe and that is exactly what happens in ESO.
This conversation is not about subscriptions, its about allowing the player to play the content when they do not have a sub.
You can not access clockwork city with a chapter purchase. You can not access any of the DPC with a chapter purchase.
In wow 100% of the content is available to the player, not for a sub, but for the latest purchase. Paid subscriptions ARE NOT a requirement to play World of Warcraft in its entirety.
This is incorrect. You do not need a subscription to play wow in it's entirety, you do need to purchase 30 days of time with gold in game. You do however need a subscription to play ESO in it's entirety.Zenimax does one better than Blizard does with WoW. If we choose to end our subscription for a short while we can still log into the game and do something. That is much more than we can do in WoW without an active sub.
this is factually false. regardless of HOW you get game time - getting that gametime is required to acess wow past lvl 20 (or is it lvl 10 now, not sure, since there is level squish and I haven't checked what it does to free trial). you have to have active subscription to play the rest of the game. that is NON NEGOTIABLE. you have to keep BUYING subscription. again - how you get those tokens is neither here nor there (especially since crown for gold trading in ESO exists)
the one thing that WoW does objectively better when it comes to this - is transaction safety. it is assured by blizzard. there is no risk to either seller or buyer.
Thank you for bringing in this information to add clarity to the fact that game time still has to be purchased and regardless of how someone obtains their game access that it all starts with real-world money. The fact someone paid another player in-game gold is irrelevant since that seller purchased it from the cash shop, to begin with.
The discussion has never been about playing with real world money, you keep trying to turn the discussion around to favor your presentation, not the OP.
A player who has purchased the most recent WOW expansion gets ALL of the previous content along with the purchase. The player must subscribe for 30 days to access the game past level 20 (or whatever it is with the squish). The player can do this by purchasing a Game Token in game with gold, or they can set up a credit card subscription. If they are new to the game, the first 30 days is included in the purchase.
A player who has purchased the most recent ESO expansion DOES NOT get all of the previous content with the purchase. The player must subscribe to ESO+ with a credit card subscription to access this content, or purchase all of the DLC separately with crowns.
These are simply the facts.
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virtus753✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The player must subscribe to ESO+ with a credit card subscription to access this content, or purchase all of the DLC separately with crowns.
These are simply the facts.
They’re not, though. One can purchase all of the “DLC” in ESO with in-game gold rather than crowns. ZOS officially endorses this method of gifting/acquiring licenses to crown store content.4 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Zenimax already does do the same. WoW provides all the previous content to those who subscribe and that is exactly what happens in ESO.
This conversation is not about subscriptions, its about allowing the player to play the content when they do not have a sub.
You can not access clockwork city with a chapter purchase. You can not access any of the DPC with a chapter purchase.
In wow 100% of the content is available to the player, not for a sub, but for the latest purchase. Paid subscriptions ARE NOT a requirement to play World of Warcraft in its entirety.
This is incorrect. You do not need a subscription to play wow in it's entirety, you do need to purchase 30 days of time with gold in game. You do however need a subscription to play ESO in it's entirety.@Raideen
Zenimax does one better than Blizard does with WoW. If we choose to end our subscription for a short while we can still log into the game and do something. That is much more than we can do in WoW without an active sub.
this is factually false. regardless of HOW you get game time - getting that gametime is required to acess wow past lvl 20 (or is it lvl 10 now, not sure, since there is level squish and I haven't checked what it does to free trial). you have to have active subscription to play the rest of the game. that is NON NEGOTIABLE. you have to keep BUYING subscription. again - how you get those tokens is neither here nor there (especially since crown for gold trading in ESO exists)
the one thing that WoW does objectively better when it comes to this - is transaction safety. it is assured by blizzard. there is no risk to either seller or buyer.
Thank you for bringing in this information to add clarity to the fact that game time still has to be purchased and regardless of how someone obtains their game access that it all starts with real-world money. The fact someone paid another player in-game gold is irrelevant since that seller purchased it from the cash shop, to begin with.
The discussion has never been about playing with real world money, you keep trying to turn the discussion around to favor your presentation, not the OP.
A player who has purchased the most recent WOW expansion gets ALL of the previous content along with the purchase. The player must subscribe for 30 days to access the game past level 20 (or whatever it is with the squish). The player can do this by purchasing a Game Token in game with gold, or they can set up a credit card subscription. If they are new to the game, the first 30 days is included in the purchase.
A player who has purchased the most recent ESO expansion DOES NOT get all of the previous content with the purchase. The player must subscribe to ESO+ with a credit card subscription to access this content, or purchase all of the DLC separately with crowns.
These are simply the facts.
Fact is all players who subscription-based game time have access to the existing content after a new chapter is added just as WoW provides their players the same as long as they have acquired similar game time. This is a fact that puts your previous statement in the proper context. This is a simple truth.
So yes, this is not about spending money as the semantics of how they acquire it is irrelevant.The player must subscribe to ESO+ with a credit card subscription to access this content, or purchase all of the DLC separately with crowns.
These are simply the facts.
They’re not, though. One can purchase all of the “DLC” in ESO with in-game gold rather than crowns. ZOS officially endorses this method of gifting/acquiring licenses to crown store content.
This is another great point to this into proper context. It also demonstrates that while doing things a little differently both offer players a means to gain access to content via in-game gold.
All we have done is added information to bring a proper context to this.Edited by idk on October 26, 2020 1:29PM2 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@VaranisArano
And what about the smaller Guilds that honestly can't afford it, or the people who decide they don't want to fill their limited Guild slots with all trading Guilds and instead have them split up between things like PvP, RP, trading, specific tasks like fishing, and so on? Sure, you can say that Guilds can make it a 'group effort', but that should be something Guilds do for fun, not because it's necessary in order be able to afford something that expensive. Luckily my main trading Guild has one so I wouldn't be affected, but two of my other Guilds are RP ones, a third is a Guild I'm in with a few friends so we can have the Guild bank for extra storage. The last one is a social/trading/RP Guild, but I don't think we have a Transmute Station there. For people who literally are in five smaller Guilds (and not everyone is in a trading Guild, remember) the advice of "oh just have your Guild make it a group thing" isn't really advice, or much of a solution.
What harm would it be in introducing a Transmute Station to a base area of the game? I don't really see why people would be against it, because it isn't like making said Station available in the base game is going to hurt the economy on these. Given how much they are, I have a feeling they don't really sell that often, and I'd have to do the math to know for sure, but I feel like people could spend fewer Writ Vouchers on less expensive items from Rolis to make more than they'd get from selling Stations. It's usually easier to sell a lot of less expensive items than one really expensive item (depending on the availability and demand of said items, obviously).
The way I see it, ESO is an MMO. MMOs are all about spending time and effort OR real money to get what you want. That might not be the most player-friendly business model, but its pretty much the basis of most MMOs.
ESO is not a game where you get everything for very little effort. Rather, if you want some of the big items to be available without buying the content they came with, you should expect to put some effort in. Which is precisely what ZOS does with the transmute stations - you can get it free (as in, not spending real money), but you have to spend time and effort to get it.
I mean, let's make no mistake. You want players to get the Transmutation Station completely for free with the base game without buying the DLC, subscribing, OR using any of the methods ZOS has given them to get their own transmutation station because those free (as in, not spending real money) methods are too expensive for you in terms of the time and effort you are willing to spend. You just want it to be free, plain and simple.
I mean, the options we're looking at:
Buy Clockwork City DLC - 2000 crowns
Subscribe - $15
Buy Transmutation Station - 4500 crowns
Buy Transmutation Station - 1250 vouchers
Buy Transmutation Station - 900k gold
(The economy ZOS really cares about probably isn't the Writ Vouchers...)
I don't think its a reasonable expectation that ZOS should make the Transmutation Station completely and utterly free for all players in the base game. ZOS is not obligated to make things that are already free (as in, not spending real money), cost less time/effort because you don't want to work that hard.
Its one thing if the time/effort is truly burdensome.
Its not.
900k is not a lot of gold for a guild of players, especially if you raise funds for it over time.
"But my small guilds really, really can't afford it!"
Look, I can't tell your guilds how to run themselves. But I do suspect that if your guilds really wanted to make getting the transmutation station a priority, you could raise enough gold/writs over time to get one. RP/social guilds can do that just as much as trading ones if their members think it's worthwhile. Once people accept that ZOS probably isn't giving it away for free, they can come up with a plan that works for their specific guild.
And if none of your guilds will, then you have a choice to make about how much you want that transmutation station.
Because "I'm unwilling to join a guild that has one...or do master writs for vouchers...or earn the gold to buy one," is not a good reason for why ZOS should make one of the benefits of owning the Clockwork City DLC or subscribing to ESO+ completely, totally free for everyone.7 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Zenimax already does do the same. WoW provides all the previous content to those who subscribe and that is exactly what happens in ESO.
This conversation is not about subscriptions, its about allowing the player to play the content when they do not have a sub.
You can not access clockwork city with a chapter purchase. You can not access any of the DPC with a chapter purchase.
In wow 100% of the content is available to the player, not for a sub, but for the latest purchase. Paid subscriptions ARE NOT a requirement to play World of Warcraft in its entirety.
This is incorrect. You do not need a subscription to play wow in it's entirety, you do need to purchase 30 days of time with gold in game. You do however need a subscription to play ESO in it's entirety.Zenimax does one better than Blizard does with WoW. If we choose to end our subscription for a short while we can still log into the game and do something. That is much more than we can do in WoW without an active sub.
this is factually false. regardless of HOW you get game time - getting that gametime is required to acess wow past lvl 20 (or is it lvl 10 now, not sure, since there is level squish and I haven't checked what it does to free trial). you have to have active subscription to play the rest of the game. that is NON NEGOTIABLE. you have to keep BUYING subscription. again - how you get those tokens is neither here nor there (especially since crown for gold trading in ESO exists)
the one thing that WoW does objectively better when it comes to this - is transaction safety. it is assured by blizzard. there is no risk to either seller or buyer.
Sorry, you are 100% incorrect. You do NOT have to pay a subscription with REAL money in order to access wow. You can pay for your 30 day game time with gold in game. Paying for 30 days of game time with gold in game, or with a credit card gives you IDENTICAL ACCESS to ALL the content in World of Warcraft. This is NOT the case with ESO.
dude. YOU CAN ACESS ALL OF DLC IN ESO WITH GOLD. you are again factually wrong here. crown for gold trading is a thing that exists. everything on a crown store (outside of things like skill lines and skyshards which can just be outright earned through in game activities) - can be purchased with gold. I mean... I literally did that for my alt account so that I could acess all the zones on it without having to subscribe with real money.
you keep moving these goalposts, but you are STILL. WRONG.
[snip]
yes you can buy tokens with gold. you can also buy DLC's with gold in ESO. but in WoW you have to KEEP buying those tokens, in ESO once you unlock those DLC's? you are set.
and to reiterate. making gold in WoW? is much MUCH harder then in ESO, especially as a newer player. the chances of you actualy being able to afford to buy those tokens within first month? as a new player? are all but nonexistent. (I would say completely impossible, but there is always that one person who is exception that proves the rule... however for the purposes of a regular player, its NOT something one should or could easily rely on)
in any case - to the OP's point, I think transmute stations should be added to base game. since Vvardenfell is included in base game now (as far as I know) - it would be a good place to have one, considering Sotha Sil's connection to Vivec and all.
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Ragnar on October 27, 2020 1:36PMdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***1 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NVM, misread.
Vvardenfell is included in the base game for new players, but was not added retroactively to previous editions.
The lore appropriate base game location would likely be the Tribunal Temple in Deshaan - if ZOS were ever to add one.Edited by VaranisArano on October 26, 2020 2:46PM1 -
josiahva✭✭✭✭✭
✭Virtually all guild "halls" have them...its available free of cost or the effort of making your own just by joining a guild.0 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »NVM, misread.
Vvardenfell is included in the base game for new players, but was not added retroactively to previous editions.
The lore appropriate base game location would likely be the Tribunal Temple in Deshaan - if ZOS were ever to add one.
that would work as well. that said, IMO at least if something is a part of base game for some basic editions - it SHOULD be retroactively added to all basic editions.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***0 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
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They’re not, though. One can purchase all of the “DLC” in ESO with in-game gold rather than crowns. ZOS officially endorses this method of gifting/acquiring licenses to crown store content.
Theoretically. It is virtually impossible to make enough gold to trade for crowns to purchase all of the DLC content. The best way to make gold in game is through crafting, in order to craft you need ESO+. Farming gear and upgrading gear needs crafting. The craft bag is essential to crafting. Even a fully unlocked bank and bag space on a character will be over filled with crafting materials.
Secondly. I see people get scammed out of their gold DAILY by "crown sellers". WOW does not have this issue.
This is amazingly simple. WOW's monetization model is not only more upfront with the customer, its safer, its less expensive to play than ESO by MAGNITUDES. You get ALL of the content in WOW and do not have to work for each item individually.
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Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Fact is all players who subscription-based game time have access to the existing content after a new chapter is added just as WoW provides their players the same as long as they have acquired similar game time. This is a fact that puts your previous statement in the proper context. This is a simple truth.
So yes, this is not about spending money as the semantics of how they acquire it is irrelevant.
That is not what the discussion was about, this is the second time you are going off topic to prove a point that was not brought up.
The difference however, if I am to point out the fallacy of your off topic point, is that in ESO the player must sign up and pay with a credit card. In WOW, you do not. And don't give me the tired excuse of "but players can exhange crowns with gold". No one without ESO+ is able to make enough told, literally 10's of millions to trade for crowns to purchase DLC, outside of possible getting scammed out of their gold to start with, which happens daily in game.They’re not, though. One can purchase all of the “DLC” in ESO with in-game gold rather than crowns. ZOS officially endorses this method of gifting/acquiring licenses to crown store content.
This is another great point to this into proper context. It also demonstrates that while doing things a little differently both offer players a means to gain access to content via in-game gold.
All we have done is added information to bring a proper context to this.
That point is not relevant, it works on paper, not in reality.
Each DLC if one was to exchange crowns for gold comes out to be literally millions of gold. The only players who can make millions of gold to do such a feat are master crafters who have multiple crafters. ESO+ is mandatory for a master crafter. ESO+ costs 15 dollars a month with a credit card, you can not get ESO plus with a gold to crown exchange.
Edited by Raideen on October 26, 2020 4:03PM2 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
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dude. YOU CAN ACESS ALL OF DLC IN ESO WITH GOLD. you are again factually wrong here. crown for gold trading is a thing that exists. everything on a crown store (outside of things like skill lines and skyshards which can just be outright earned through in game activities) - can be purchased with gold. I mean... I literally did that for my alt account so that I could acess all the zones on it without having to subscribe with real money.
Crown to gold conversion to purchase DLC is LITERALLY 10's OF MILLIONS OF gold. There is no way you made that much gold without ESO+.you keep moving these goalposts, but you are STILL. WRONG.
[snip].
That is incorrect, I simply keep address your off topic points that were not part of the original discussion. You folks, as I already suggested, are the ones who keep moving the goal posts.
In WOW, yes you can purchase tokens with gold in game. You go to the Central Auction House and purchase a game token with gold. That gets applied to your account and all of the content in WOW is available to you, all of it. Mounts/outfits/emotes/etc. This is not the case in ESO.yes you can buy tokens with gold.
Explain to me how a new players in ESO, who does not subscribe to ESO plus is going to make the 10's of millions of gold to purchase DLC?you can also buy DLC's with gold in ESO. but in WoW you have to KEEP buying those tokens, in ESO once you unlock those DLC's? you are set.
Secondly, its not the same as you suggest. ESO Limits your ability to play the game without ESO+. WOW does not.
Buy wows most recent expansion, use in game gold to purchase a token and you have access to the entirety of WOW's content sans a handful of mounts and pets which are offered in their cash shop. The VAST majority of wows mounts, pets, etc are all found in game. No additional cost like ESO.
This is no different in ESO. In fact in ESO the amount of gold needed (after a currency conversion) is MASSIVELY larger than one would need in wow.and to reiterate. making gold in WoW? is much MUCH harder then in ESO, especially as a newer player. the chances of you actualy being able to afford to buy those tokens within first month? as a new player? are all but nonexistent. (I would say completely impossible, but there is always that one person who is exception that proves the rule... however for the purposes of a regular player, its NOT something one should or could easily rely on)
That being said. Leveling alone in wow from 1-60 will easily yield over 50% of the gold required to purchase a token. Making gold in wow is not difficult at all with a central auction house that is available to every player. Sadly most new players in ESO are not welcome in the good guild traders with kiosks that actually sell. They will not make enough gold in their leveling experience to pay for their weekly dues.in any case - to the OP's point, I think transmute stations should be added to base game. since Vvardenfell is included in base game now (as far as I know) - it would be a good place to have one, considering Sotha Sil's connection to Vivec and all.
100% Agreed. But in my opinion it would be more honest to allow ALL players, regardless of ESO+ or not, to have access to 99% of the games content if they purchase the most recent chapter.
Sadly, a large percentage of the games content is not even accessible to ESO+ members.
[edited quoted contnet]Edited by ZOS_Ragnar on October 27, 2020 1:36PM2 -
josiahva✭✭✭✭✭
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Crown to gold conversion to purchase DLC is LITERALLY 10's OF MILLIONS OF gold. There is no way you made that much gold without ESO+.
Just curious as to why you would think it impossible to make tons of gold without ESO+? I mean, you start with base game areas and just...trade, buy low and sell high. It most certain IS possible if that is your thing, without ever touching a crafting station. Heck, if you wanted to, you could run vHRC 20 times a day and make 200k from the plunder...thats "tens of millions of gold" doing nothing else for 100 days. True, it would be miserable and boring...but it could be done in literally just piece of content.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »Totally forgot you can buy the station with writ vouchers because that's how I purchased mine. My bad.
They still need to add base game access to it somewhere for new players who just purchased the base game.
Why would a new player have any need for a transmutation station? They don't even have traits researched lol
Correct, @PTTE, and the lowest players can reconstruct gear is at CP160 anyways ...
Most gear can be reconstructed at any level. Only monster sets, mythic items and arena weapons have a minimum level of 50.
That's no longer correct. All items reconstitute at 50/160 now. That changed with the last patch, before that items would reconstitute at lower levels.
EDIT: It looks like you can reconstitute anything at low levels now, but when you go to check, it blocks actually recreating items on characters below level 50. Not sure if you can reconstitute on 50/10-150 though, so that might be technically possible.Edited by starkerealm on October 26, 2020 4:40PM1 -
Arunei✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@VaranisArano
I think you either overlooked or ignored the point where I said I'm in a trading Guild that has a Station. I'm in one of the biggest trading Guilds on PC NA (or at least I assume it is, considering it has at least one or two sister Guilds as well). This isn't a "I want it cheap/easy" thing at all. It's looking at it from the perspective of people who literally don't have access to this, especially since CWC has been out for years now. It's old content, it wouldn't exactly hurt to bundle it into the base game, though I don't imagine that happening. It also wouldn't hurt to simply add Transmuting to the base game. Claiming "it's an MMO you're expected to grind" is, imo, a poor excuse for defending said grinds, considering there are plenty of other grinds in this game. Not everything in an MMO needs to be "smash you face into a wall over and over and over" in order to get something.
You claim 900k isn't a lot of money, but you're also looking at things from the perspective of someone already situated, who either knows how to make money, or has the time/ability to do it, or who's in good trading Guilds that get a decent amount of traffic, or some combo of the above. Just because you don't consider 900k a lot of money or particularly troublesome to get does not mean it's like that across the board for everyone else.
There's already going to be a huge grind getting the sticker book filled out for people looking to complete it, and for people farming numerous sets to make them cheaper to recon. Why does saving a considerable amount of gold to get a Transmute Station have to be part of that grind? And that's if you can even find one, since I'm not sure how many are even being sold, considering the amount of Vouchers they take to purchase. I'd have to have a look around and see if they're fairly easy to locate.
What it boils down to is that it's not a bad thing to make certain things more accessible to people, especially stuff that's part of older content. There's still plenty of stuff that requires a person's time in this game, making one aspect less of a grind isn't going to break anything.PC-NA | Been around since closed beta
Avid RPer. Hit me up in-game @Ras_Lei if you're interested in getting together for some arr-pee shenanigans!
RP Characters:
Sarah Lacroix: Breton Vampire who really really REALLY likes likes learning Magick and also her Altmer husbando
Kaalhil Swiftstrike: Tiny shapeshifting monster hunter Bosmeri lady with enough sass to kill a dragon or ten
Gwendolyn Jenelle: Friendly healer with a coffee addiction and her own medical practice
Krisiel: Literally crazy Werewolf, no like legit insane. She nuts
Kiju Veran: Ex-Fighters Guild Suthay who likes to punch things and is also a spy and ALSO a Werewolf
Niralae Elsinal: Young Altmeri woman with way too much Magicka and Vampire husbando
Slondor: TESified Slenderman, except lazier and has more of a thing for deals than Clavicus Vile does
Marius Vastino: Sarah's Imperial apathetic sire who likes to monologue
Lirawyn Calatare: Traveling performer and bard who's 101% vanilla bean
Soliril Larethian: Blind alchemist who uses animals to see and brews plagues in his spare time3 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm in 3 guilds who have at least one transmute station. Since one also has all the crafting stations I has not bothered checking for more.Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.1 -
Sephyr✭✭✭✭✭
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Crown to gold conversion to purchase DLC is LITERALLY 10's OF MILLIONS OF gold. There is no way you made that much gold without ESO+.
Just curious as to why you would think it impossible to make tons of gold without ESO+? I mean, you start with base game areas and just...trade, buy low and sell high. It most certain IS possible if that is your thing, without ever touching a crafting station. Heck, if you wanted to, you could run vHRC 20 times a day and make 200k from the plunder...thats "tens of millions of gold" doing nothing else for 100 days. True, it would be miserable and boring...but it could be done in literally just piece of content.
I've no idea either. Even with the crafting statement, that's rather incorrect as I know quite a many of folk who've done writs since before the craft bag was even a thing and the game was shifting into it's B2P model in Tamriel Unlimited back in January of 2015. The crafting bag didn't come until a year later, in the Dark Brotherhood patch. With current values of writs, I'm getting about 4000 a day per max-level character (note: Not crafting level) without including the sale of upgrade materials. So if you have four characters at max level, that's about 112k a week. It'd be slightly less than it was back then, but I know a lot of folks that would juggle materials through the mail (bouncing) or even getting mules to stick their overstocks on. Some even bought other accounts while they were on sale. It wasn't impossible, though it was tedious at times. After the implementation of the craft bag, a lot of people rejoiced--as for myself, I didn't need it for years and had only took advantage of it when they offer the free trials now.
But of course, this is the ESO forum and people 'don't want to do writs'. Which is fine. They don't have to do them. But it's nowhere near as impossible as the claim states. For them? Maybe. It all depends on what you're willing to do. Either way, that's way off topic.Edited by Sephyr on October 26, 2020 5:25PM0 -
Edaphon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Taleof2Cities wrote: »Totally forgot you can buy the station with writ vouchers because that's how I purchased mine. My bad.
They still need to add base game access to it somewhere for new players who just purchased the base game.
Why would a new player have any need for a transmutation station? They don't even have traits researched lol
Correct, @PTTE, and the lowest players can reconstruct gear is at CP160 anyways ...
Most gear can be reconstructed at any level. Only monster sets, mythic items and arena weapons have a minimum level of 50.
That's no longer correct. All items reconstitute at 50/160 now. That changed with the last patch, before that items would reconstitute at lower levels.
EDIT: It looks like you can reconstitute anything at low levels now, but when you go to check, it blocks actually recreating items on characters below level 50. Not sure if you can reconstitute on 50/10-150 though, so that might be technically possible.
I tested it a few minutes ago, it still works:
What could prevent low level characters from recreating items is not knowing any traits yet. You have to research at least 1.
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VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@VaranisArano
I think you either overlooked or ignored the point where I said I'm in a trading Guild that has a Station. I'm in one of the biggest trading Guilds on PC NA (or at least I assume it is, considering it has at least one or two sister Guilds as well). This isn't a "I want it cheap/easy" thing at all. It's looking at it from the perspective of people who literally don't have access to this, especially since CWC has been out for years now. It's old content, it wouldn't exactly hurt to bundle it into the base game, though I don't imagine that happening. It also wouldn't hurt to simply add Transmuting to the base game. Claiming "it's an MMO you're expected to grind" is, imo, a poor excuse for defending said grinds, considering there are plenty of other grinds in this game. Not everything in an MMO needs to be "smash you face into a wall over and over and over" in order to get something.
You claim 900k isn't a lot of money, but you're also looking at things from the perspective of someone already situated, who either knows how to make money, or has the time/ability to do it, or who's in good trading Guilds that get a decent amount of traffic, or some combo of the above. Just because you don't consider 900k a lot of money or particularly troublesome to get does not mean it's like that across the board for everyone else.
There's already going to be a huge grind getting the sticker book filled out for people looking to complete it, and for people farming numerous sets to make them cheaper to recon. Why does saving a considerable amount of gold to get a Transmute Station have to be part of that grind? And that's if you can even find one, since I'm not sure how many are even being sold, considering the amount of Vouchers they take to purchase. I'd have to have a look around and see if they're fairly easy to locate.
What it boils down to is that it's not a bad thing to make certain things more accessible to people, especially stuff that's part of older content. There's still plenty of stuff that requires a person's time in this game, making one aspect less of a grind isn't going to break anything.
I consider 900k to be quite a lot for an individual player. I do not consider it to be a lot of gold for a guild, who can fundraise over time for a service to offer its players, if those players are interested. Incidentally, the 900k price you cited earlier matches up roughly with the price of the station through gifting at a 1 to 200 price, so that's another source beyond vouchers.
Whether or not you personally need this service or whether we are using a general "you" to mean new players who want this service without paying or grinding for it really doesn't change the nature of the options we've got.
We can already pay for the station with real money or we can grind for it through other means or we can join a guild who has one or will pay/grind for It. We have options - no base-game-only player is actually being locked out of using a transmutation station (unlike Jewelrycrafting which requires owning Summerset or ESO+ to use.)
I haven't seen a good reason for making the station absolutely free aside from, effectively, "it would be good for the players who are unwilling to use any of the other options." Yes, I say unwilling, because none of those options are unreasonable. Base-game-only players who are willing to join a guild with a station or work together with their guildmates to buy one can get access to a transmutation station. (thus they can get around actually paying for the DLC content.) Players, even new players, are not helplessly sitting there like "There's nothing we can do to get this item we desperately want except to beg ZOS to give it to us! ZOS, take pity or we shall forever be without transmutation!"
Nah, if anything, ZOS was far kinder about transmutation stations than they were with Jewelrycrafting. At least base-game-only players can transmute once they have access to a station.Edited by VaranisArano on October 26, 2020 5:51PM1 -
Sephyr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Nah, if anything, ZOS was far kinder about transmutation stations than they were with Jewelrycrafting. At least base-game-only players can transmute once they have access to a station.
Everyone felt that.2 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What could prevent low level characters from recreating items is not knowing any traits yet. You have to research at least 1.
Huh... weird. Not only that, but aside from Mythics, it appears that anything can be reconstructed, including items that simply don't drop. Including Monster set pieces, and perfected arena weapons...
Okay, this is going to make things really crazy in lowbie BGs (and not for the better.)0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Nah, if anything, ZOS was far kinder about transmutation stations than they were with Jewelrycrafting. At least base-game-only players can transmute once they have access to a station.
Everyone felt that.
Yeah, honestly, its one of the things I don't like about the Chapter system. Morrowind had so many things get peeled off and become either base game (the zone for new players, Battlegrounds) or be sold separately (the zone DLC, Warden).
I wish Summerset had gotten the same treatment. Like maybe Psijic Order is too tied to the story content to split it off, but Jewelrycrafting could have easily been sold separately after the zone became DLC. As it is, two years later we still have to buy Summerset/subscribe if we want to use jewelrycrafting or the new jewelry traits. There's no grindy workarounds to get access except for paying gold for it to be gifted.
It'll be interesting to see what ZOS does with Antiquities and whether it continues to require purchasing Greymoor to use, just like Jewelrycrafting.0
