Idea for fair simulated aoe taunt

Cryptical · October 2020

How about a proc set with the benefit tail-loaded into the 5th item bonus?

1 item: nothing
2 items: nothing
3 items: nothing
4 items: nothing
5 items: Aggravating wounds - The damage you do to an enemy is so painful the enemy is taunted to attack you for 15 seconds.

Then it becomes easy to use a few aoe attacks to grab and keep the attention of the whole room. You paid 4 entire set bonuses for it, so no cool down either.

Such a set would free up the two taunt slots for other things to make tank quality of life better.

nukk3r · October 2020

That tank would be kicked from group in an instant.

IBreathlesSI · October 2020

I would like see an aoe taunt in this game. Especially for the situations like multiple bosses and huge trash fights.

Giving up on 4 bonusses of a set is too much punisment for one benefit. It would be impossible to make a build with it. Tanks will be running around like chickens taunted every enemy with low health and low sustain. But it can be mythic item.

mobicera · October 2020

How about you try and learn to tank instead?
Or perhaps learn to dps?
There is 0 reason to grab every little trash add in eso.
Some you simply stack in dots, perhaps lock down for a second.
It is the responsibility of the dps to kill these little trash before they are an issue.
Not only that a tank is supposed to support the group, if you just taunt and block as a tank you are near useless.
So this 5 piece set just to enforce lazy 1 button game play?
Don't just choose support because you think its easier, its not.
A good support is typically more challenging than a good dps, it requires more forethought, multitasking and situational awareness.
Please learn to play rather than asking for unnecessary additions that could actually just complicate things, that again no one with any degree of knowledge or skill would really use.

IBreathlesSI · October 2020

And what about over-taunting. While using a set like these means your every hit is taunt makin enemy over-taunted at the first second of fight. It must have a cooldown.

Cryptical · October 2020

IBreathlesSI wrote: »

And what about over-taunting. While using a set like these means your every hit is taunt makin enemy over-taunted at the first second of fight. It must have a cooldown.

Overtaunting only happens if a dps or healer is screwing up and taunting. Overtaunting is when multiple people each are trying to grab the attention - making the enemies shift attention back and forth until they just ignore all taunts. Crucial point - Multiple people.

A single person alone can taunt all they want, and all it does is refresh the timer each time.

So the issue you bring up is only an issue if a dps/healer is making the mistake.

IBreathlesSI · October 2020

Cryptical wrote: »

Overtaunting only happens if a dps or healer is screwing up and taunting.

A single person alone can taunt all they want, and all it does is refresh the timer each time.

So the issue you bring up is only an issue if a dps/healer is making the mistake.

Oh. Didn't know that. Remember when I was in trial group tank used an add-on to track taunt timer. They said overtaunting happens for one person too.

OlumoGarbag · October 2020

What are you guys discussing here? There is already an aoe taunt in the game.
Tormentor set + stampede. You can even backbar it and it also gives you 4k Résistance in top.

mobicera · October 2020

IBreathlesSI wrote: »

Cryptical wrote: »

Overtaunting only happens if a dps or healer is screwing up and taunting.

A single person alone can taunt all they want, and all it does is refresh the timer each time.

So the issue you bring up is only an issue if a dps/healer is making the mistake.

Oh. Didn't know that. Remember when I was in trial group tank used an add-on to track taunt timer. They said overtaunting happens for one person too.

Trials often have tank swap mechanics which is one of the reasons to monitor such.
Google esou overtaunt explained I believe a few months ago someone there explained it quite well.

zvavi · October 2020

IBreathlesSI wrote: »

Cryptical wrote: »

Overtaunting only happens if a dps or healer is screwing up and taunting.

A single person alone can taunt all they want, and all it does is refresh the timer each time.

So the issue you bring up is only an issue if a dps/healer is making the mistake.

Oh. Didn't know that. Remember when I was in trial group tank used an add-on to track taunt timer. They said overtaunting happens for one person too.

Long ago it was possible to overtaunt by yourself I think. I don't really know, it was before my time.

Cryptical · October 2020

IBreathlesSI wrote: »

Cryptical wrote: »

Overtaunting only happens if a dps or healer is screwing up and taunting.

A single person alone can taunt all they want, and all it does is refresh the timer each time.

So the issue you bring up is only an issue if a dps/healer is making the mistake.

Oh. Didn't know that. Remember when I was in trial group tank used an add-on to track taunt timer. They said overtaunting happens for one person too.

It’s a Sunday morning during a boss event.

I just spent *forever* killing lady solace with other people around, only using pierce armor.

All it did was refresh the taunt timer. Over and over and over.

Overtaunting is only a thing of two or more people are taunting.

VaranisArano · October 2020

The group dungeons in particular are designed such that mob packs can't all be AOE taunted. Its intended that the DDs and Healer will have to deal with some of the adds, thus making it a priority for the tank to control the heavy-hitting enemies instead of trying to taunt the whole pack.

If you want to change that, you should also lay out your plan for ZOS to rebalance all dungeon content to account for tanks being able to pull all aggro from healers and DDs instead of what current dungeon content is designed for.

Cryptical · October 2020

mobicera wrote: »

How about you try and learn to tank instead?
Or perhaps learn to dps?
There is 0 reason to grab every little trash add in eso.
Some you simply stack in dots, perhaps lock down for a second.
It is the responsibility of the dps to kill these little trash before they are an issue.
Not only that a tank is supposed to support the group, if you just taunt and block as a tank you are near useless.
So this 5 piece set just to enforce lazy 1 button game play?
Don't just choose support because you think its easier, its not.
A good support is typically more challenging than a good dps, it requires more forethought, multitasking and situational awareness.
Please learn to play rather than asking for unnecessary additions that could actually just complicate things, that again no one with any degree of knowledge or skill would really use.

I don’t think you thought it through before posting.

Actually, the loss of the other 4 set bonuses would place additional pressure on the tank due to being a bit lower on stam/health etc.

And the additional surge of attention from all tagged enemies would also put further pressure on the tank. You lose mobility when surrounded by a mob of enemies.

Not to mention that the number of incoming attacks skyrockets, increasing your exposure to all the side effects and status conditions enemies throw around.

That’s why I don’t think you thought through your response before posting.

zvavi · October 2020

Tormentor?

mobicera · October 2020

Cryptical wrote: »

mobicera wrote: »

How about you try and learn to tank instead?
Or perhaps learn to dps?
There is 0 reason to grab every little trash add in eso.
Some you simply stack in dots, perhaps lock down for a second.
It is the responsibility of the dps to kill these little trash before they are an issue.
Not only that a tank is supposed to support the group, if you just taunt and block as a tank you are near useless.
So this 5 piece set just to enforce lazy 1 button game play?
Don't just choose support because you think its easier, its not.
A good support is typically more challenging than a good dps, it requires more forethought, multitasking and situational awareness.
Please learn to play rather than asking for unnecessary additions that could actually just complicate things, that again no one with any degree of knowledge or skill would really use.

I don’t think you thought it through before posting.

Actually, the loss of the other 4 set bonuses would place additional pressure on the tank due to being a bit lower on stam/health etc.

And the additional surge of attention from all tagged enemies would also put further pressure on the tank. You lose mobility when surrounded by a mob of enemies.

Not to mention that the number of incoming attacks skyrockets, increasing your exposure to all the side effects and status conditions enemies throw around.

That’s why I don’t think you thought through your response before posting.

What does that have to do with a useless 5 piece bonus that does nothing to support the group?

VaranisArano · October 2020

Cryptical wrote: »

mobicera wrote: »

How about you try and learn to tank instead?
Or perhaps learn to dps?
There is 0 reason to grab every little trash add in eso.
Some you simply stack in dots, perhaps lock down for a second.
It is the responsibility of the dps to kill these little trash before they are an issue.
Not only that a tank is supposed to support the group, if you just taunt and block as a tank you are near useless.
So this 5 piece set just to enforce lazy 1 button game play?
Don't just choose support because you think its easier, its not.
A good support is typically more challenging than a good dps, it requires more forethought, multitasking and situational awareness.
Please learn to play rather than asking for unnecessary additions that could actually just complicate things, that again no one with any degree of knowledge or skill would really use.

I don’t think you thought it through before posting.

Actually, the loss of the other 4 set bonuses would place additional pressure on the tank due to being a bit lower on stam/health etc.

And the additional surge of attention from all tagged enemies would also put further pressure on the tank. You lose mobility when surrounded by a mob of enemies.

Not to mention that the number of incoming attacks skyrockets, increasing your exposure to all the side effects and status conditions enemies throw around.

That’s why I don’t think you thought through your response before posting.

Except that the healer, who no longer has to worry about aggro from any enemies, can stand back and heal you. "If the tank dies, it's the healer's fault," yeah?

And the DDs, who also no longer have to worry about aggro from any enemies can wade in and murder everything as quickly as they can.

And the tank? All the tank has to do in charge in with AOEs and turtle up behind their most defensive skills available, then let the healer keep them alive while the Drs burn everything down.

Or did you have another vision for how this is going to work in dungeons?

caperb · October 2020

Again?

GusTheWizard · October 2020

I’m fine with them putting an AoE taunt in the game as long as it’s not a very big radius, in fact if they wanted to make ice staff tanking unique they should’ve added a taunt to Elemental Ring as the frost ring effect instead of adding minor protection which there’s so many other ways of getting it, and it’s only a 6m radius which is about the right size, oh also the taunt should last only like 7 seconds max.

Cryptical · October 2020

caperb wrote: »

Again?

Hey, it’s not an aoe taunt - it’s an attack taunt.

Whatever you wound wants revenge on you.

You could easily pop select enemies to come at you, or you can carpet bomb the place with caltrops, your choice.

And what the heck is everyone’s problem with the mere idea of trying out new things? If people want the same old same old and refuse to even entertain new dynamics then why not go play parcheesi?

idk · October 2020

The simple fact is an AoE taunt is not needed. That is a solid fact as all group content in ESO has been successfully tanked a great number of times without issue and obviously without needing an AoE taunt.

It is better that players learn to tank properly and this is even more important if they want to become a good tank. That set, like an AoE taunt, would be a crutch that would lead to more problems than the lazy means of tanking it brings about.

idk · October 2020

Cryptical wrote: »

caperb wrote: »

Again?

Hey, it’s not an aoe taunt - it’s an attack taunt.

And a tank would be better served by learning to tank properly rather than rely on a crutch which is all that set is. It would be horrendously bad for the game to have tanks relying on such a set because they would never become a decent tank as a result.

EDIT: BTW, it is you that called it a simulated AoE taunt. It is in the title.

LadyNalcarya · October 2020

VaranisArano wrote: »

Cryptical wrote: »

mobicera wrote: »

How about you try and learn to tank instead?
Or perhaps learn to dps?
There is 0 reason to grab every little trash add in eso.
Some you simply stack in dots, perhaps lock down for a second.
It is the responsibility of the dps to kill these little trash before they are an issue.
Not only that a tank is supposed to support the group, if you just taunt and block as a tank you are near useless.
So this 5 piece set just to enforce lazy 1 button game play?
Don't just choose support because you think its easier, its not.
A good support is typically more challenging than a good dps, it requires more forethought, multitasking and situational awareness.
Please learn to play rather than asking for unnecessary additions that could actually just complicate things, that again no one with any degree of knowledge or skill would really use.

I don’t think you thought it through before posting.

Actually, the loss of the other 4 set bonuses would place additional pressure on the tank due to being a bit lower on stam/health etc.

And the additional surge of attention from all tagged enemies would also put further pressure on the tank. You lose mobility when surrounded by a mob of enemies.

Not to mention that the number of incoming attacks skyrockets, increasing your exposure to all the side effects and status conditions enemies throw around.

That’s why I don’t think you thought through your response before posting.

Except that the healer, who no longer has to worry about aggro from any enemies, can stand back and heal you. "If the tank dies, it's the healer's fault," yeah?

And the DDs, who also no longer have to worry about aggro from any enemies can wade in and murder everything as quickly as they can.

And the tank? All the tank has to do in charge in with AOEs and turtle up behind their most defensive skills available, then let the healer keep them alive while the Drs burn everything down.

Or did you have another vision for how this is going to work in dungeons?

But healers and dds can do that already as long as you taunt all big enemies (there's usually only a few of them in a trash pack so it's pretty easy even without any aoe taunts) and cc smaller ones. Regular trash mobs die very quickly and don't do much damage anyway.

SgtNuttzmeg · October 2020

Cryptical wrote: »

How about a proc set with the benefit tail-loaded into the 5th item bonus?

1 item: nothing
2 items: nothing
3 items: nothing
4 items: nothing
5 items: Aggravating wounds - The damage you do to an enemy is so painful the enemy is taunted to attack you for 15 seconds.

Then it becomes easy to use a few aoe attacks to grab and keep the attention of the whole room. You paid 4 entire set bonuses for it, so no cool down either.

Such a set would free up the two taunt slots for other things to make tank quality of life better.

If you don't like tormentor, why not run void bash? Not only does it put all the adds in one nice spot for burning but you can also immobilize them. Plus it gives you Major Maim, which if you are running a source of Minor Maim grants you the same DR as Minor Maim did before.

https://eso-sets.com/set/void-bash

Also giving up set bonuses does not help your cause.

Joy_Division · October 2020

Healers would like a "heal all to max" button, but there is a reason ZOS won't add it as a skill.

Thechuckage · October 2020

Cryptical wrote: »

caperb wrote: »

Again?

Hey, it’s not an aoe taunt - it’s an attack taunt.

Whatever you wound wants revenge on you.

You could easily pop select enemies to come at you, or you can carpet bomb the place with caltrops, your choice.

And what the heck is everyone’s problem with the mere idea of trying out new things? If people want the same old same old and refuse to even entertain new dynamics then why not go play parcheesi?

Why would anyone want to give up an entire 5 pc set bonus? IMO this goes beyond "selfish sets" which at least give more healing or other survivability to the tank for very little benefit.

There are already methods for popping select enemies from afar, and the various snares, roots and stuns have worked well for dealing with small trash nearby.

A poorly executed idea does not get better because its "trying out new things"

SgtNuttzmeg · October 2020

Joy_Division wrote: »

Healers would like a "heal all to max" button, but there is a reason ZOS won't add it as a skill.

It's called barrier XD

Raideen · October 2020

I think your idea is a stellar idea and something the game desperately needs.

I have seen too many DPS and Healers either DIE to trash or come close to dying for there not to be an AOE taunt for tanks.

Action combat, while fun, has serious flaws over tab targeting combat. One of the biggest issues is healing. I can not count the times that I have gone to heal someone either as a healer or DPS and have that person die because the second I threw off my heal, someone else ran in between me and the person who needed healing. This is because of the hectic "Guild Wars 2" type of combat where there is just about ZERO control on the play field.

This is not about positioning, it's not about timing. Its about trying to heal to keep a team member up, which I assume is the job of a healer, and then having someone interrupt that heal by simply running in between me and the target that needs healing. LAG can also cause this issue which means its out of the players hand to solve.

There are only two solutions to issues like this. Target locking (Tab targeting), or giving the tank greater control over the adds to help ensure things like this do not occur.

It appears there are two minds on the subject of how combat should work in a game.

1. Everything is hectic and people are running around like chickens with their heads cut off (I do not use this term as a way to disparage these players or design of the game, but as an accurate depiction of what a combat scenario looks like in game).

2. Controlled play where the mobs (adds and bosses) are controlled by the tank (typical MMO style of play established by long standing MMO's who still operate into their 2nd decade).

It sounds to me that the OP prefers style 2 combat (as do I). I prefer a controlled scenario where the players have more control over the outcome.

Jeremy · October 2020

Cryptical wrote: »

How about a proc set with the benefit tail-loaded into the 5th item bonus?

1 item: nothing
2 items: nothing
3 items: nothing
4 items: nothing
5 items: Aggravating wounds - The damage you do to an enemy is so painful the enemy is taunted to attack you for 15 seconds.

Then it becomes easy to use a few aoe attacks to grab and keep the attention of the whole room. You paid 4 entire set bonuses for it, so no cool down either.

Such a set would free up the two taunt slots for other things to make tank quality of life better.

I'm guessing this is at least somewhat sarcastic? haha

Raideen · October 2020

Jeremy wrote: »

Cryptical wrote: »

How about a proc set with the benefit tail-loaded into the 5th item bonus?

1 item: nothing
2 items: nothing
3 items: nothing
4 items: nothing
5 items: Aggravating wounds - The damage you do to an enemy is so painful the enemy is taunted to attack you for 15 seconds.

Then it becomes easy to use a few aoe attacks to grab and keep the attention of the whole room. You paid 4 entire set bonuses for it, so no cool down either.

Such a set would free up the two taunt slots for other things to make tank quality of life better.

I'm guessing this is at least somewhat sarcastic? haha

That is not how I read it. I read it as "nothing" means 2 things.
1. No bonus procs or anything.
2. Leaving the section blank because if he just "assumed" x amount of stamina, x amount of health, x amount of health regen etc, people would literally argue those points even though those points are not part of the discussion. Same way I just used "x" to represent the number, not the actual number.

Nothing = represents what would typically be seen as stats in this kind of gear.

Jeremy · October 2020

Raideen wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Cryptical wrote: »

How about a proc set with the benefit tail-loaded into the 5th item bonus?

1 item: nothing
2 items: nothing
3 items: nothing
4 items: nothing
5 items: Aggravating wounds - The damage you do to an enemy is so painful the enemy is taunted to attack you for 15 seconds.

Then it becomes easy to use a few aoe attacks to grab and keep the attention of the whole room. You paid 4 entire set bonuses for it, so no cool down either.

Such a set would free up the two taunt slots for other things to make tank quality of life better.

I'm guessing this is at least somewhat sarcastic? haha

That is not how I read it. I read it as "nothing" means 2 things.
1. No bonus procs or anything.
2. Leaving the section blank because if he just "assumed" x amount of stamina, x amount of health, x amount of health regen etc, people would literally argue those points even though those points are not part of the discussion. Same way I just used "x" to represent the number, not the actual number.

Nothing = represents what would typically be seen as stats in this kind of gear.

Well, I could be wrong. That's why I asked. Sometimes sarcasm is hard to detect.

But if "nothing" represents what would typically be seen as stats in this kind of gear then you're probably right about it being a serious suggestion. I thought he or she meant actually nothing. So I read the suggestion as being intentionally and overly punitive so as to highlight this board's resistance to an AoE taunt. Because while having an AoE taunt would be quite handy to have, especially in certain situations - I don't think it would be worth gutting your stats for. haha

zaria · October 2020

mobicera wrote: »

How about you try and learn to tank instead?
Or perhaps learn to dps?
There is 0 reason to grab every little trash add in eso.
Some you simply stack in dots, perhaps lock down for a second.
It is the responsibility of the dps to kill these little trash before they are an issue.
Not only that a tank is supposed to support the group, if you just taunt and block as a tank you are near useless.
So this 5 piece set just to enforce lazy 1 button game play?
Don't just choose support because you think its easier, its not.
A good support is typically more challenging than a good dps, it requires more forethought, multitasking and situational awareness.
Please learn to play rather than asking for unnecessary additions that could actually just complicate things, that again no one with any degree of knowledge or skill would really use.

Add that if you taunt everything in the room you will run out of stamina very fast if you block. This can be bad if you have an boss or elite you need to block HA from.