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How are they so tanky?

Xargas13
Xargas13
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BGs.... I'm wearing 2 damage sets, light armor necropotence and Silks of the Sun, shoulders and head are defensive(heavy), and still I can't kill anything, I tried spinner's set instead of the sun set and it wasn't much better. I am really at the loss here.

Funny thing, I met some players where the roles were in reverse, I have no idea why, except maybe their gear was green or something. My gear is full purple except head and staves, those are gold.

Playing mag necro and since my main spammables are fire damage, sun set should work perfectly as I understand.
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
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    PVP, I assume? Cyrodiil or BGs?

    Gear can help you to a certain point, such as with sustain, defense, or proc sets for damage in No CP. But for the most part, you may need to reevaluate your tactics, not necessarily your gear. Good tactics carry over through gear changes, you know?

    I can't speak to specific MagNecro tactics, but here are some basics to think about. If enemies seem too tanky, are you attacking them when they are fully buffed up or when they are weak? Are you using a combo of skills to burst or pressure them?
  • Xargas13
    Xargas13
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    PVP, I assume? Cyrodiil or BGs?

    Gear can help you to a certain point, such as with sustain, defense, or proc sets for damage in No CP. But for the most part, you may need to reevaluate your tactics, not necessarily your gear. Good tactics carry over through gear changes, you know?

    I can't speak to specific MagNecro tactics, but here are some basics to think about. If enemies seem too tanky, are you attacking them when they are fully buffed up or when they are weak? Are you using a combo of skills to burst or pressure them?

    I play defensive most of the time, got some abilities for that, but all that in wain, since even my blastbones don't deal a lot of damage, it happened since the expansion, did I miss something?
  • Recapitated
    Recapitated
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    Mag necro is just poorly equipped for PvP and blastbones has no additional effect once morphed. Stam leans heavily on weapon skills including for the stun.
  • ImSoPro
    ImSoPro
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    Run a defensive set instead of two offensive sets if you’re dying too quickly. If you’re using flame skulls then don’t. They do hit hard but they move too slow and are big and noticeable so they get dodged a lot. I’ve been on my frostden lately but I’m running NMA Balorghs and Pariah jewels and staff on my magcro. I also get undeath from being a vamp and I run intensive mender instead of spirit guardian. 7.2K per heal every 2 secs for 8 secs I don’t even use any other HoTs. All of that combined with mist form makes it hard to kill me even with my 20k hp in BGs and 23k in Cyro. Pariah and sated fury synergize well too because my resistances can run up to 30k + while it’s on.

    One burst combo that works is degen->BB->stun(I’ve tested stupefy/empowering grasp/flame clench)->sated fury toggle->crushing shock spam. By the time you’re hitting crushing shock it should hit at the same time as BB cause it’s instant. My magcro hits 3.5k spell damage so it chops HP but this is also when you realize magcro badly needs an execute. It’s such a timing based class nothing is fast about it so when you get people into execute range they often have time to heal up or escape before your next BB hits prolonging the fight.

    Mag classes as a whole need more effective destructive staff skills to lean on the way stam leans on all those weapon skills. Maybe mag should get a universal execute in the destruction staff skill line the way all the weapon lines have executes. That would go a long way for magden and magcro. Magcro with some DoTs that could be applied to the enemy like DK dots with the +15% DoT damage passive, a new secondary effect on mag morph BB, some sort of execute, and magcro is top tier PVP. Maybe a source of major sorcery from the skeletal arcanist? It’s not missing much but overall you’re just going to have a harder time in PVP on magcro than other classes.
    Edited by ImSoPro on October 16, 2020 3:46PM
  • SpiritofESO
    SpiritofESO
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    In BGs or any PvP I started using (as a Nightblade) Reaper's Mark.

    Reaper's Mark
    Cast Time: Instant
    Target: Enemy
    Range: Maximum range: 50 meters
    Cost: Nothing
    Skill description
    Expose an enemy's weaknesses to afflict them with Major Fracture and Major Breach, reducing Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by 5280 for 20 seconds. When a marked enemy dies, you heal for 5597, and you gain Major Berserk, increasing your damage done by 25% for 5 seconds. This portion of the ability scales off your Maximum Health. You can only have one Reaper's Mark active at a time.
    New effect -- If the marked enemy dies, you heal for more and gain Major Berserk, increasing your damage done.
    ~~~
    By the way, my heal-on-kill is base 11,000 or crit 18,000 which is nearly a full heal.
    ~~~
    The only player too tanky for my bow shots now are Werewolf form players -- and this is a separate issue since Werewolf form is FAR TOO Over-powered for PvP. I believe it will be "adjusted" and you will see Werewolf tears thereafter. :neutral:
    ~~~
    (Come to think of it, Reaper's Mark is fairly overpowered. :smiley: )
    • ~ PS NA ~ ALDMERI DOMINION ~
    • IVY GOLDBLADE, WOOD ELF NIGHTBLADE, Former Empress
    • IVY GOLDBLAZE, HIGH ELF TEMPLAR
    • "Adapt or Die"
  • fred4
    fred4
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    I am sorry I can't help with magcro, but I'll say two things. One is that playing defensively, unless you're an outright tank or healer who is built for that, will get you killed. This is because blocking, shielding and defensive skills in general are more costly than offensive ones. If you're not playing offensive yourself, you're not putting pressure on the other guy, they don't take damage, they don't need to defend and they will outsustain you, because offensive skills are cheaper. Unfortunately turning the tables in your favor by finding the right balance between offensive and defensive play only comes with experience. The best way to get such experience IMO starts with duelling. The advantage experienced players have over you comes down to their muscle memory, the familiarity they have with their rotations and the speed and accuracy of their decision-making. This is also something you'll improve with duelling.

    The other thing is that a good PvPer could probably be naked and you still can't kill them, as long as they make use of LoS (line-of-sight), particularly narrow gaps in the terrain such as can be found between the wall and stairs in Imperial City, between rocks in Cyrodiil and probably in some BGs as well. Terrain can be very protective in extreme cases, but even simple moves help a lot, like running around a corner to buff up, only to do a 180 and come back fully buffed.

    OK, one more thing: A good PvPer will also (a) have a good rotation and never drop their preemptive buffs and heals and (b) they know how you play and will avoid your highest damage combos, for example by dodge rolling or by use of clever movement and positioning. Running away from your opponent is usually a disaster, because even melee abilities have surprising reach. Turn your back on someone and you make it easy for them to hit you. Move sideways or forwards, through the other player, however and you avoid damage.
    PC EU (EP): Magicka NB (main), Stamina NB, Stamina DK, Stamina Sorcerer, Magicka Warden, Magicka Templar, Stamina Templar
    PC NA (EP): Magicka NB
  • Taleof2Cities
    Taleof2Cities
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    Your list is good, @fred4, and I’ll add another item to it:

    There are a handful of professional PvP players (aka “twinks”) that haven’t graduated from the under-50 campaigns.

    Those players will skew the skill level of the fights and campaign itself ... by having the good rotation, movement, and positioning that you mention.
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