I don't get Vet dungeons at all.

Ryuvain · October 2020

So, one of the first vet dungeons to do is banished cells 2. It has maw of infernal for one of the better dps sets for magicka right? Why is Rilis a dps check then?
Am I doing the wrong dungeon or something? I don't have other monster helms so I figured I should go for this one.

But the backwards logic of it being a dps race for one of the first dungeons has me frustrated. I can't obtain all gold items and weapons because I don't have the funds. I'm not someone who's done dungeons for years. I also keep hearing that they made this dungeon harder than it once was.

What gives? I'm using crafty alfiq and mother's sorrow. Is there something else I'm missing?

I'm playing magsorc atm, used to be a pet sorc but their damage was gutted some time back.

Taleof2Cities · October 2020

There's nothing written anywhere in the game that requires you to solo Banished Cells 2, @Ryuvain.

Grab three (3) other players to shorten the completion time ... it is a group dungeon after all.

The stat difference between gold and purple is minimal - which has been stated in the forums quite a few times.

redspecter23 · October 2020

You can do another dungeon for a helm/shoulder set that will work fine for now. Consider Crypt of Hearts 1 for Illambirs or Vaults of Madness for Grothdaar. Both are much easier to complete than Banished Cells 2 and will get you a set that will generally be quite good in many situations for magicka builds.

Banished Cells 2 is probably one of the harder base game dungeons, at least the final fight. If you don't have enough dps, you can't burn the daedroths fast enough to kill them before more spawn or to kill the boss before many tanks get overwhelmed holding daedroths. It should also be noted that the difference in damage output from just helm/shoulder sets is very tiny compared to your overall damage. Much of it will come from a tight rotation, knowledge of the fight, situational awareness, light attack weaving and overall player skill.

Jeremy · October 2020

Ryuvain wrote: »

So, one of the first vet dungeons to do is banished cells 2. It has maw of infernal for one of the better dps sets for magicka right? Why is Rilis a dps check then?
Am I doing the wrong dungeon or something? I don't have other monster helms so I figured I should go for this one.

But the backwards logic of it being a dps race for one of the first dungeons has me frustrated. I can't obtain all gold items and weapons because I don't have the funds. I'm not someone who's done dungeons for years. I also keep hearing that they made this dungeon harder than it once was.

What gives? I'm using crafty alfiq and mother's sorrow. Is there something else I'm missing?

I'm playing magsorc atm, used to be a pet sorc but their damage was gutted some time back.

Just what we need, more maws of the infernal. ^^

That can be a frustrating fight. But yeah, it's a DPS race. Your damage dealers need to be able to burn down the adds in a timely fashion otherwise they begin to horde and it's very difficult for the tank to control them due to that annoying move the boss does that floats you into the air.

A lot of people also are unaware you can run to the correct glyph on either side of the room (they are color coded) to remove the debuff said annoying move places on you. Some people say you can purge it. But when I tried to remove it with ritual it did crap. haha

zaria · October 2020

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

There's nothing written anywhere in the game that requires you to solo Banished Cells 2, @Ryuvain.

Grab three (3) other players to shorten the completion time ... it is a group dungeon after all.

The stat difference between gold and purple is minimal - which has been stated in the forums quite a few times.

This, people solo vet dungeons as an challenge, some solo normal for weapons.

vNC2 not even very hard, I say vBC1 is harder for an low cp group because of the one shot mechanic who is a bit hard to see. Yes HM require an real tank and some coordination.

Hint, as you are an magsorc back bar an resto staff and queue as healer once you leveled it up obviously

Only queue then dungeon is up for pledge as you get better teams.

LadyNalcarya · October 2020

zaria wrote: »

Hint, as you are an magsorc back bar an resto staff and queue as healer once you leveled it up obviously

This is probably the best way of getting this set as a newbie. Healing vanilla dungeons is quite forgiving (just need elemental drain, radiating regeneration and some kind of burst heal as bare minimum), and you can help the group with dps as a healer/dd hybrid.

Ryuvain · October 2020

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

There's nothing written anywhere in the game that requires you to solo Banished Cells 2, @Ryuvain.

Grab three (3) other players to shorten the completion time ... it is a group dungeon after all.

The stat difference between gold and purple is minimal - which has been stated in the forums quite a few times.

I was using dungeon finder. Our group couldnt beat the dps check of Rilis. I already know what a group dungeon is.

redspecter23 wrote: »

You can do another dungeon for a helm/shoulder set that will work fine for now. Consider Crypt of Hearts 1 for Illambirs or Vaults of Madness for Grothdaar. Both are much easier to complete than Banished Cells 2 and will get you a set that will generally be quite good in many situations for magicka builds.

Banished Cells 2 is probably one of the harder base game dungeons, at least the final fight. If you don't have enough dps, you can't burn the daedroths fast enough to kill them before more spawn or to kill the boss before many tanks get overwhelmed holding daedroths. It should also be noted that the difference in damage output from just helm/shoulder sets is very tiny compared to your overall damage. Much of it will come from a tight rotation, knowledge of the fight, situational awareness, light attack weaving and overall player skill.

Very good advice. I do think I have a good rotation as it's pretty simple, but it does get annoying being stunned and interrupted every 2 seconds during that boss. Most of it comes from across the room too.

Also, isnt everyone going on and on about how proc sets do everything now? I've looked up a lot of sets and maw gives passive damage that you don't need to do anything more for it. Seems like a straight increase to me.

Jeremy wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

So, one of the first vet dungeons to do is banished cells 2. It has maw of infernal for one of the better dps sets for magicka right? Why is Rilis a dps check then?
Am I doing the wrong dungeon or something? I don't have other monster helms so I figured I should go for this one.

But the backwards logic of it being a dps race for one of the first dungeons has me frustrated. I can't obtain all gold items and weapons because I don't have the funds. I'm not someone who's done dungeons for years. I also keep hearing that they made this dungeon harder than it once was.

What gives? I'm using crafty alfiq and mother's sorrow. Is there something else I'm missing?

I'm playing magsorc atm, used to be a pet sorc but their damage was gutted some time back.

Just what we need, more maws of the infernal. ^^

That can be a frustrating fight. But yeah, it's a DPS race. Your damage dealers need to be able to burn down the adds in a timely fashion otherwise they begin to horde and it's very difficult for the tank to control them due to that annoying move the boss does that floats you into the air.

A lot of people also are unaware you can run to the correct glyph on either side of the room (they are color coded) to remove the debuff said annoying move places on you. Some people say you can purge it. But when I tried to remove it with ritual it did crap. haha

We were aware of all the mechanics. Just if someone dies to spike damage its very difficult to even get them back up due to stuns and interrupts thrown out across the room every 2 seconds.

Even following mechanics makes it a race. Figured I'd do dungeons in order, but I guess that doesn't show difficulty.

zaria wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

There's nothing written anywhere in the game that requires you to solo Banished Cells 2, @Ryuvain.

Grab three (3) other players to shorten the completion time ... it is a group dungeon after all.

The stat difference between gold and purple is minimal - which has been stated in the forums quite a few times.

This, people solo vet dungeons as an challenge, some solo normal for weapons.

vNC2 not even very hard, I say vBC1 is harder for an low cp group because of the one shot mechanic who is a bit hard to see. Yes HM require an real tank and some coordination.

Hint, as you are an magsorc back bar an resto staff and queue as healer once you leveled it up obviously
Only queue then dungeon is up for pledge as you get better teams.

Wasn't solo at all. But that healer idea I could do. I don't think I have good enough gear to win dps races right now.

zaria · October 2020

Jeremy wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

So, one of the first vet dungeons to do is banished cells 2. It has maw of infernal for one of the better dps sets for magicka right? Why is Rilis a dps check then?
Am I doing the wrong dungeon or something? I don't have other monster helms so I figured I should go for this one.

But the backwards logic of it being a dps race for one of the first dungeons has me frustrated. I can't obtain all gold items and weapons because I don't have the funds. I'm not someone who's done dungeons for years. I also keep hearing that they made this dungeon harder than it once was.

What gives? I'm using crafty alfiq and mother's sorrow. Is there something else I'm missing?

I'm playing magsorc atm, used to be a pet sorc but their damage was gutted some time back.

Just what we need, more maws of the infernal. ^^

That can be a frustrating fight. But yeah, it's a DPS race. Your damage dealers need to be able to burn down the adds in a timely fashion otherwise they begin to horde and it's very difficult for the tank to control them due to that annoying move the boss does that floats you into the air.

A lot of people also are unaware you can run to the correct glyph on either side of the room (they are color coded) to remove the debuff said annoying move places on you. Some people say you can purge it. But when I tried to remove it with ritual it did crap. haha

Yes tanked an dungeon where both DD and healer ran maw.
And its not much of an dps race, 20 K group dps should be more than enough.

Tanked it in one of my most insane fights, needed the quest on second tank and group was on last boss.
They was very happy getting an real tank and I agreed on HM.
Group dps was low a bit above 20 K I say, healer was good healed and gave resources, think he also killed the orbs.
Now the problem was that the DD believed that killing any dadreot would fail HM so then I released daedrots to die in AoE at boss they start running around in circles, so I had to keep close to 10 and I kept getting bobbled

DId it on first run

LadyNalcarya · October 2020

Ryuvain wrote: »

Wasn't solo at all. But that healer idea I could do. I don't think I have good enough gear to win dps races right now.

You CAN get good enough gear just by buying crafted Julianos and overland Mother's sorrow sets. But starting out as a dd might be more difficult than healing or even tanking because your gear doesnt really carry you and the game doesnt teach you how to dps.

Ryuvain · October 2020

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

Wasn't solo at all. But that healer idea I could do. I don't think I have good enough gear to win dps races right now.

You CAN get good enough gear just by buying crafted Julianos and overland Mother's sorrow sets. But starting out as a dd might be more difficult than healing or even tanking because your gear doesnt really carry you and the game doesnt teach you how to dps.

Is crafty alfiq no longer good? Seemed to help damage a bit, but no where near pet sorc prenerf levels.

Jeremy · October 2020

zaria wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

So, one of the first vet dungeons to do is banished cells 2. It has maw of infernal for one of the better dps sets for magicka right? Why is Rilis a dps check then?
Am I doing the wrong dungeon or something? I don't have other monster helms so I figured I should go for this one.

But the backwards logic of it being a dps race for one of the first dungeons has me frustrated. I can't obtain all gold items and weapons because I don't have the funds. I'm not someone who's done dungeons for years. I also keep hearing that they made this dungeon harder than it once was.

What gives? I'm using crafty alfiq and mother's sorrow. Is there something else I'm missing?

I'm playing magsorc atm, used to be a pet sorc but their damage was gutted some time back.

Just what we need, more maws of the infernal. ^^

That can be a frustrating fight. But yeah, it's a DPS race. Your damage dealers need to be able to burn down the adds in a timely fashion otherwise they begin to horde and it's very difficult for the tank to control them due to that annoying move the boss does that floats you into the air.

A lot of people also are unaware you can run to the correct glyph on either side of the room (they are color coded) to remove the debuff said annoying move places on you. Some people say you can purge it. But when I tried to remove it with ritual it did crap. haha

Yes tanked an dungeon where both DD and healer ran maw.
And its not much of an dps race, 20 K group dps should be more than enough.

Tanked it in one of my most insane fights, needed the quest on second tank and group was on last boss.
They was very happy getting an real tank and I agreed on HM.
Group dps was low a bit above 20 K I say, healer was good healed and gave resources, think he also killed the orbs.
Now the problem was that the DD believed that killing any dadreot would fail HM so then I released daedrots to die in AoE at boss they start running around in circles, so I had to keep close to 10 and I kept getting bobbled
DId it on first run

When I say "DPS race" I just mean any fight that requires a certain threshold of damage to complete. In other words: it's not a fight you can wear down down over time with defensive or healing strategies.

But yeah, that fight is a nightmare to tank if the damage is low. Trying to control all those adds while being bobbled around is one of the most frustrating things I've ever gone through on this game. So the word "insane" is a pretty good word to describe it. haha

LadyNalcarya · October 2020

Ryuvain wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

Wasn't solo at all. But that healer idea I could do. I don't think I have good enough gear to win dps races right now.

You CAN get good enough gear just by buying crafted Julianos and overland Mother's sorrow sets. But starting out as a dd might be more difficult than healing or even tanking because your gear doesnt really carry you and the game doesnt teach you how to dps.

Is crafty alfiq no longer good? Seemed to help damage a bit, but no where near pet sorc prenerf levels.

To be honest, I'm not sure how well it would perform, but most magicka sets would work fine. You don't really need super high dps for BC2, something around 20-25k would be fine. It's more about being able to dps consistently, even when the boss is moving and there are aoes on the ground.
If you're on PC/EU, feel free to pm me, I can help you to get that helm.

MrBrownstone · October 2020

Monster sets are like 5% of your total dps so getting them is not going to make veteran content easier. The actual dps increase can be achieved by the player, not the gear

zaria · October 2020

Ryuvain wrote: »

Wasn't solo at all. But that healer idea I could do. I don't think I have good enough gear to win dps races right now.

First comment made it feel like an solo run.
And healers are allowed to do damage as long as group don't die. I say you don't need healing gear for dungeons.
Julianos and mother sorrow works, necropotense if you use pets.
In trials even normal ones its kind of expected but works without unless wipes

FrancisCrawford · October 2020

redspecter23 wrote: »

You can do another dungeon for a helm/shoulder set that will work fine for now. Consider Crypt of Hearts 1 for Illambirs or Vaults of Madness for Grothdaar. Both are much easier to complete than Banished Cells 2 and will get you a set that will generally be quite good in many situations for magicka builds.

Banished Cells 2 is probably one of the harder base game dungeons, at least the final fight. If you don't have enough dps, you can't burn the daedroths fast enough to kill them before more spawn or to kill the boss before many tanks get overwhelmed holding daedroths. It should also be noted that the difference in damage output from just helm/shoulder sets is very tiny compared to your overall damage. Much of it will come from a tight rotation, knowledge of the fight, situational awareness, light attack weaving and overall player skill.

Slimecraw is pretty good, although that will change soon unless it gets something added to make up for the Minor Berserk nerf. And it drops in Wayrest Sewers 1.

Unless, of course, you're playing a warden, or in a group with somebody else running Combat Prayer. Then it's almost useless.

Aznarb · October 2020

zaria wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

Wasn't solo at all. But that healer idea I could do. I don't think I have good enough gear to win dps races right now.

First comment made it feel like an solo run.
And healers are allowed to do damage as long as group don't die. I say you don't need healing gear for dungeons.
Julianos and mother sorrow works, necropotense if you use pets.
In trials even normal ones its kind of expected but works without unless wipes

Necropot or alfiq are not that good anymore for pet.
The last patch they changed how pet scale from magicka, now, like all other skill in the game they scale on max magicka AND spell dmg.
So if you've one but not other you just lose dps.

Also, agree with earlier post, gear not gonna made you a better player, julia-mother vs siro-mother on a good dps is only 10k difference on 21m.

And last for OP, if you get stunned many time, ask your tank to not turn daedroth in your direction.
And if tank have more than 7 daedroth that just your dps that to low and you'll have to deal with it cuz Tank can only taunt 1b1 so at a moment it be come tricky to select all of them 1b1.
Also Tank should NOT taunt the main boss, DD can deal with it, only one HA to block, nothing difficult, and don't forget to kill the orb so the boss don't heal.

I've see so many pug saying "yeah I know strat" but dying to HA, not cleansing, not kill orb and 90% trash dps.
Better to do this kind of DG with friend and guildy.

MrBrownstone · October 2020

Btw just block the Deadroth attack and you won't get cc'ed

IneedaDollar · October 2020

Gear impact is minimal in this game as it was already mentioned above.
The difference between optimal gear and crafted/overland gear isn't that huge and any dps check in the game can be beaten in very basic gear.
Two things that matter way more are individual player skill and knowledge as well as group optimization for 12 man content.
Especially Banished Cells 2 is actually a very old outdated dungeon that is beginner level difficulty.
If you struggle to beat it you might want to repeat the basics.
Watch some YouTube guides and take a closer look at what other players do different or get someone to help you with your rotation.
As a beginner with 450+ CP and Julianos/Mothers Sorrow/Monster Set
50k Dps on the Iron Atro Dummy should be a realistic value to aim for.

thegreat_one · October 2020

I think ranged dps is a good strat for this one. He moves alot for the tank. and that usually adds up to deadroth all over hells half acre. Having the space to smack orbs and kill the adds is important and trying to stack on him leads to to much crap on screen for a clean win. Just my two cents

Ryuvain · October 2020

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

Wasn't solo at all. But that healer idea I could do. I don't think I have good enough gear to win dps races right now.

You CAN get good enough gear just by buying crafted Julianos and overland Mother's sorrow sets. But starting out as a dd might be more difficult than healing or even tanking because your gear doesnt really carry you and the game doesnt teach you how to dps.

Is crafty alfiq no longer good? Seemed to help damage a bit, but no where near pet sorc prenerf levels.

To be honest, I'm not sure how well it would perform, but most magicka sets would work fine. You don't really need super high dps for BC2, something around 20-25k would be fine. It's more about being able to dps consistently, even when the boss is moving and there are aoes on the ground.
If you're on PC/EU, feel free to pm me, I can help you to get that helm.

Sadly PCNA. But thank you anyway.
I'm not new to dps'ing on mmos. DCUO almost has the exact same formula for the most part. Including basic attacks too.
I really don't think I'm doing dps wrong, I've watched a lot of videos on it and also keep my buffs up while light attacking.

MrBrownstone wrote: »

Btw just block the Deadroth attack and you won't get cc'ed

I know of that, but it gets hard when theres enough coming your way. I'm not built for stamina.
Also fireballs coming across the room can be hard to see until it hits you in the face. Trying to see through all the fire aoe the boss spams at times is a pain.

MasterSpatula · October 2020

Wait until you learn that Moongrave Fane, source of Hollowfang, is largely a Heal Test dungeon.

idk · October 2020

1. It is really best to start running with guild members as the experience is often significantly better than what one will find via the GF.
2. The fight is easier than it used to be. Not sure why someone told you it is harder. Obviously much depends on the group so maybe they are running with better players now.
3. If the maws are not going down fast enough then DPS is probably not focusing on them. I have seen DPS oblivious to what was happening around them. Also, it makes sense to bring them to the boss when they first spawn so the boss gets some splash damage.
4. FYI, there are many dungeons that are much more challenging than BC II. Vet dungeons are designed to offer a greater challenge. Again, start running with guildies.

Everest_Lionheart · October 2020

BC2 when we want to do Hard mode we usually burn the boss and daedroths down to around 10% then the tank will taunt the daedroths away from the group while another player rants the boss with inner fire and the healer focuses heals on them. Once the tank gets enough daedroths for the hm completion it’s an easy execute.

This is an interesting mechanic to learn because you’ll want to use something similar for the last boss of vDSA. The tank is going to be controlling all the adds and your 2dpa and healer need to focus the boss this same way. Usually it’s the healer that slots inner fire in this case. That boss has multiple DPS checks, so some groups go with 3DD and slot strong self heals to make sure you get the burns done without getting the extra adds.

That fight makes vBC2 look easy. Who doesn’t love a good DPS race though. I prefer those to heavy mechanics any day!

CrashTest · October 2020

How to know you're not ready for BC2: 5-7 Daedroth spawn before the boss is ~75%.

MrBrownstone wrote: »

Monster sets are like 5% of your total dps so getting them is not going to make veteran content easier. The actual dps increase can be achieved by the player, not the gear

This right here.

Learn rotation (light attack weave, self buffs, etc) and your DPS will skyrocket.

You can wear mixed monster pieces that give you spell crit or Magicka until you get a full Maw set. If you really want a full monster set for now, get Ilambris. There are no DPS checks for vCoH1, so it shouldn't be very difficult to get.

Ysbriel · October 2020

BC2 is a pretty damm easy dungeon. you don’t need golden sets for it. If you need a monster set that is good before getting the Maw, try getting illambris first or slimecraw to boost your damage. what is your CP by the way? have you parsed on a test dummy to find out your current DPS? was the entire group above 160 cp? This reminds be of the Valkin Skoria days where everyone just wanted it because they heard it was the meta but ignored other functional sets they could get first.

LashanW · October 2020

Ryuvain wrote: »

What gives? I'm using crafty alfiq and mother's sorrow. Is there something else I'm missing?
I'm playing magsorc atm, used to be a pet sorc but their damage was gutted some time back.

That gear is ok for the content you aim to do. But false god + mother's sorrow would give you better results.

Pet sorcs were not nerfed, they are a bit buffed actually (if you have a standard raid build that focuses both max magicka and spell dmg). However, petsorcs that stacked only max magicka is now nerfed.

Ryuvain wrote: »

I also keep hearing that they made this dungeon harder than it once was.

This is kinda true. I am sure the maw of infernal boss (not the monster set, the actual boss) is definitely buffed. His fire DoT now does a ton of dmg, even to a tank. I felt this because when I tanked this 2-3 years ago this fire DoT was a non-issue.

Near the end there I was taking almost 11k dmg per second, was interesting. And yes, I stood in the fire because I wanted to see the incoming dmg numbers. And they do increase over time.

Jeremy wrote: »

Some people say you can purge it. But when I tried to remove it with ritual it did crap. haha

It's not purgeable by skills. Doing the mechanic is the only way (but maybe psijic ultimate works).

Ryuvain · October 2020

Ysbriel wrote: »

BC2 is a pretty damm easy dungeon. you don’t need golden sets for it. If you need a monster set that is good before getting the Maw, try getting illambris first or slimecraw to boost your damage. what is your CP by the way? have you parsed on a test dummy to find out your current DPS? was the entire group above 160 cp? This reminds be of the Valkin Skoria days where everyone just wanted it because they heard it was the meta but ignored other functional sets they could get first.

Cp 300, groups levels were 200-400.
Should get a different set first.

CrashTest wrote: »

How to know you're not ready for BC2: 5-7 Daedroth spawn before the boss is ~75%.

MrBrownstone wrote: »

Monster sets are like 5% of your total dps so getting them is not going to make veteran content easier. The actual dps increase can be achieved by the player, not the gear

This right here.

Learn rotation (light attack weave, self buffs, etc) and your DPS will skyrocket.

You can wear mixed monster pieces that give you spell crit or Magicka until you get a full Maw set. If you really want a full monster set for now, get Ilambris. There are no DPS checks for vCoH1, so it shouldn't be very difficult to get.

I mean that it really doesn't matter how good you are if it's a dps race and your gear doesn't let you push that much damage even wiith multiple dot and weaving. Damage is a literal stat, and sets do passive damage that doesn't scale much. Free damage. How is a proc set influenced by skill?

MrBrownstone · October 2020

Maw is not influenced by skill but still it does 5% dps so monster set is not the holy item you need to be able to perform better. You seem pretty confident about your damage output but many people are, until they test on 21m dummy and do 20k. You should parse and post screenshots here so people can help you, analyzing whats wrong. Yes gear is flat stat increase but executing your rotation properly is what makes the difference and many people fail on that part. If you can't complete that dungeon then you lack more important things, not the monster set. You should focus on them first.

However, gearwise yes i highly recommend False God instead of Alfiq. It really is a much stronger set

linuxlady · October 2020

Go get skoria from city of ash 2 vet.

freespirit · October 2020

Also keep an eye on what's at the Golden Vendor each weekend if you continue to struggle to get a helm

Maybe you might get lucky with a helm you could use from there, if you have enough gold ofc 🤓

mobicera · October 2020

Instead of just saying your dps is fine, please test it.
If you are a seasoned mmo player you know you will have to anyways for more advanced group content.
This most definitely is not wow.
Gear will not get you from 20k-80k
As everyone keeps saying rotation is a much greater influence in this game.