How do so many idiots get to rule in Tamriel?
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VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Monte_Cristo wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »How do so many idiots get to rule in Tamriel?
As in real life, right of succession, its not always the most capable who come to rule, and usually just a matter of who your parents are, or who you know, etc. In those cases where previously competent military or political individuals have taken/assumed power, there's also the Peter Principle.
To be fair to the 3 rulers, only one of them was meant to ascend to the throne anyway. Jorunn only got it cause his sister died young and without an heir, while Emeric got the crown because some plague wiped out a big chunk of the nobility, including the previous royal house.
Another example of this in the Elder Scrolls is Jarl Balgruuf, who also wasn't expecting to be Jarl, but who is nonetheless quite capable at his job and keeping Whiterun neutral as long as possible. He's got problems - like Jorunn, his kids are brats - but we see he's definitely competent at the job.
Both Jorunn and Emeric have been on the throne long enough to know better. Emeric in particular ends up looking like a procrastinating vacillator who through his inability to decide and stick to one course manages to refight a war in Rivenspire because he wouldn't pick a successor to King Ranser (and leaves the final decision up the Vestige), would have lost his Redguard allies in his Queen hadn't insisted the Vestige go to Alikr after Emeric ignored her, and then tries to throw over his Queen (who's holding down a major alliance and whom he literally fought a war over) for a shot at old flame Septima Tharn.
An unprepared ruler ought to get better with experience.
(Which is why my DC Silencer is solidly loyal to Queen Maraya, not Emeric.)2 -
Ratinira✭✭✭✭I'm a DC player, and only played the DC questline.
The litle that i saw, the skald king is stupid, emeric is proud and his ego make him blind. But the high elf queen seems pretty progressive and smart can someone confirm or explain if she's stupid too?
She is *too much* progressive. Too much enough that is rises questions why she was added. Because among all she is the worst ruler that spits on her people.
Altmets highly rely on traditions. That is a huge part of their life. It dictates how they live. They live hundreds of years and live by tradition. And live mostly in isolation.
Then she came and take trone. By the time you start AD line she is not even accepted as a queen by her people. But she already:
-Spit on traditions
-Made an alliance with lower races
-Sent her own people to die in war on the other part of the world
-(then) opened isolated Summerset to anyone.
ALOT of Altmets does not support her. Vailed Herritance includes a lot of high ranked elves. Her people does not support her, he has a nearly full-scale revolt at her doorstep, but her own people are dying in lands of Empire, Covenant and Pact. Because she want to sit on bigger throne.
All Auridon quest line is "save her *ss from problems she created herself" And yes, on Auridon we are slaughtering a lot of other Altmets who does not want to support their new queen. Not the best start of ruling.
What happened on Summerset is also partly her fault. Elves does not want accept hoard of lower races that suddenly run to their island. But all they get: "it is Queens order, obey and be happy. And anyone not happy will be punished".
Yes, traditions can be changed, but it requeres or generations to change, or great authority of strong and supported leader. They are not changed because a child snapped fingers.
And she is a child, snapping fingers and demanding altmer world to change because of that.Edited by Ratinira on October 1, 2020 12:44PM0 -
Monte_Cristo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Monte_Cristo wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »How do so many idiots get to rule in Tamriel?
As in real life, right of succession, its not always the most capable who come to rule, and usually just a matter of who your parents are, or who you know, etc. In those cases where previously competent military or political individuals have taken/assumed power, there's also the Peter Principle.
To be fair to the 3 rulers, only one of them was meant to ascend to the throne anyway. Jorunn only got it cause his sister died young and without an heir, while Emeric got the crown because some plague wiped out a big chunk of the nobility, including the previous royal house.
Both of those cases still follow right of succession, still hereditary government forming.
I meant they weren't trained/groomed from a young age to take the throne like Ayrenn would have been.0 -
FlopsyPrince✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭FlopsyPrince wrote: »The Alik'r think killing the undead is wrong if they are from their ancestors.
Now the kind of Western Skyrim is a paranoid fool. I almost want to let his area burn and/or put an arrow in the back of his head, but the quest line doesn't allow that.
Without spoilers, finish the story.
I have and I didn't see a clear answer to that. Maybe I wasn't paying enough attention at the time.PC
PS4/PS50 -
West93✭✭✭✭✭Reading this post I thought OP was talking about player emperors in cyrodiil.
To this I agree.1 -
FlopsyPrince✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Reading this post I thought OP was talking about player emperors in cyrodiil.
To this I agree.
Could be, I don't do a lot in Cyrodill. I had just finished a couple of steps in the Western Skyrim main story and his complete idiocy completely irked me. The guard who was "watching me" was not nice either and I would have loved to stab him at the time!PC
PS4/PS50 -
dazee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭FlopsyPrince wrote: »The Alik'r think killing the undead is wrong if they are from their ancestors.
Now the kind of Western Skyrim is a paranoid fool. I almost want to let his area burn and/or put an arrow in the back of his head, but the quest line doesn't allow that.
In real life, the dumbest people in a nation get elected to lead it, the game is just being realistic.Playing your character the way your character should play is all that matters. Play as well as you can but never betray the character. Doing so would make playing an mmoRPG pointless.1 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FlopsyPrince wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »The Alik'r think killing the undead is wrong if they are from their ancestors.
Now the kind of Western Skyrim is a paranoid fool. I almost want to let his area burn and/or put an arrow in the back of his head, but the quest line doesn't allow that.
Without spoilers, finish the story.
I have and I didn't see a clear answer to that. Maybe I wasn't paying enough attention at the time.I believe the point was that, if you finish the story of the Greymoor Chapter, you do get to kill Svargrim.
Though if you meant the Alikr, the Redguards do have the Ash'abah and priests of Tu'wacca, so they aren't as completely and idiotically helpless in the face of their undead ancestors as they initially seem.Edited by VaranisArano on October 9, 2020 12:46PM0 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Monte_Cristo wrote: »Monte_Cristo wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »How do so many idiots get to rule in Tamriel?
As in real life, right of succession, its not always the most capable who come to rule, and usually just a matter of who your parents are, or who you know, etc. In those cases where previously competent military or political individuals have taken/assumed power, there's also the Peter Principle.
To be fair to the 3 rulers, only one of them was meant to ascend to the throne anyway. Jorunn only got it cause his sister died young and without an heir, while Emeric got the crown because some plague wiped out a big chunk of the nobility, including the previous royal house.
Both of those cases still follow right of succession, still hereditary government forming.
I meant they weren't trained/groomed from a young age to take the throne like Ayrenn would have been.
Exactly. Kind of my whole point for why it's not always the best or most capable who come to rule.0 -
FlopsyPrince✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »The Alik'r think killing the undead is wrong if they are from their ancestors.
Now the kind of Western Skyrim is a paranoid fool. I almost want to let his area burn and/or put an arrow in the back of his head, but the quest line doesn't allow that.
Without spoilers, finish the story.
I have and I didn't see a clear answer to that. Maybe I wasn't paying enough attention at the time.I believe the point was that, if you finish the story of the Greymoor Chapter, you do get to kill Svargrim.
Though if you meant the Alikr, the Redguards do have the Ash'abah and priests of Tu'wacca, so they aren't as completely and idiotically helpless in the face of their undead ancestors as they initially seem.
I thought it was the king who was so rube to the daughter of the one who had warned him prior to these events. I believe he is Alikr, but I am unclear on that. This shouldn't spoil it for anyone as that is in the first part of the first quest. I would rather punch jerks like that than help them out, but the storyline doesn't waver....PC
PS4/PS50 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FlopsyPrince wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »The Alik'r think killing the undead is wrong if they are from their ancestors.
Now the kind of Western Skyrim is a paranoid fool. I almost want to let his area burn and/or put an arrow in the back of his head, but the quest line doesn't allow that.
Without spoilers, finish the story.
I have and I didn't see a clear answer to that. Maybe I wasn't paying enough attention at the time.I believe the point was that, if you finish the story of the Greymoor Chapter, you do get to kill Svargrim.
Though if you meant the Alikr, the Redguards do have the Ash'abah and priests of Tu'wacca, so they aren't as completely and idiotically helpless in the face of their undead ancestors as they initially seem.
I thought it was the king who was so rube to the daughter of the one who had warned him prior to these events. I believe he is Alikr, but I am unclear on that. This shouldn't spoil it for anyone as that is in the first part of the first quest. I would rather punch jerks like that than help them out, but the storyline doesn't waver....
In context, he's rude because she effectively said "We told you so!"
Then he goes, "Girl, you don't say that to a King."
Additionally, the Ash'abah are pariahs because of what they do, so King Farahajad fears that if word gets out that he called on them again, the political faction opposed to him will make a hoopla over it and possibly spark a rebellion.
For example, he says:
"I have not called on them. (the Ash'abah) I have even disregarded their warnings.
You must understand——the common people despise them. To call on them again might cost me the crown. That is why I must rely on you, wayfarer."
And "I have many political enemies who will try to turn this to their advantage."
In reviewing the questline, its clear that the Redguards have a way to normally avoid necromancy - the Ansei Wards protect all consecrated dead. Thus the Withered Hand - who are a lesser threat than the necromancers the Wards were created to combat - are limited to the unconsecrated dead. Unfortunately with a war on, there's a lot more unconsecrated dead around than usual and then they steal the wards...
Its certainly true he could be nicer about it, but through the whole zone ZOS does a reasonable job of explaining why the Redguards don't actually fall apart when faced with every two-bit necromancer who comes into town despite not wanting to kill their honored ancestors.0 -
MasterSpatula✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If you knew much about geopolitical history in general or hereditary monarchies in particular, the actual question would be, "How are there so few idiots ruling in Tamriel?"Edited by MasterSpatula on October 12, 2020 11:02AM"A probable impossibility is preferable to an improbable possibility." - Aristotle1