JanTanhide wrote: »

ForeverJenn wrote: »

So I levelled a tank over the weekend. Several times, while doing my random normal dungeons, I'd get groups of 3 500+CP. These groups were pulling 5-8k dps as a group, with me doing about 40% as a tank. How is this even possible? I am asking because I only tank and heal and am 810+ and my friends range from 18k to 60k per person. How are ppl this high doing less dps then my lowbie tank? I just wonder how this is possible, as I'm not dps, but even if I do try, I can at least pull 18k without knowing what I'm doing. Bots maybe?

LOL. Not Bots. Usually these folks are casual players with gear picked up off the ground and randomly worn. It happens, try not to get too flustered over it. They just want to have fun and are running Normal mode dungeons because they know they would get slaughtered in a Vet dungeon.

But yeah, many people that play ESO are here for the socializing. One guild I am in is all about that. And it stays full at 500 players. I have several friends who are up in the older age bracket (I.E. close to 80) that play the game to have fun and don't care about DPS or any of the Vet dungeons/trials. Two that I know are almost 1400 CP and usually just light attack or heavy attack and cast a few skills in normal dungeon runs. But, they also do not PUG so there is that.

My most fun experience tanking a PUG run was BC1 in Vet. Group DPS was 10k or so. All but one were over 1,000 CP with the lower player in the 900's. My DK Tank was doing 23% of Group DPS. But we did finish it and I laughed it off. What else can we do?

Fun times!

Thank you! You're about 1/3 people in this thread that seems to legitimately understand my question. Thank you for the sound explanation.

ForeverJenn wrote: »

dazee wrote: »

There are a lot of players who try to get better but get booted from groups because their dps is low or because they failed a mechanic.
You can blame inexperience on the community as much as the player. If I would have been in the OPs group and he offered me advice I'd take it gladly. Unfortunately most groups don't do that. They either just disband or begin to tell you how much of their air you have wasted.

The sad truth in ESO.

I DID ask. No one responds

The issue is your question is not easy to answer as the reasons are many and never the same each time it happens.

dazee wrote: »

ForeverJenn wrote: »

dazee wrote: »

There are a lot of players who try to get better but get booted from groups because their dps is low or because they failed a mechanic.
You can blame inexperience on the community as much as the player. If I would have been in the OPs group and he offered me advice I'd take it gladly. Unfortunately most groups don't do that. They either just disband or begin to tell you how much of their air you have wasted.

The sad truth in ESO.

I DID ask. No one responds

The issue is your question is not easy to answer as the reasons are many and never the same each time it happens.

Yeah. It's just 3k group dps means there's 4 people doing 600dps. Maybe afkers on some auto follow.

yup and its not even difficult gear to acquire, just new moon (craftable) and mother's sorrow (overland), with slimecraw

dazee wrote: »

ForeverJenn wrote: »

Yeah. It's just 3k group dps means there's 4 people doing 600dps. Maybe afkers on some auto follow.

Don't remember you saying 3k group dps. I've never seen that ever. I've had groups in which I was doing 80% of the dps as healer, but in any dungeon where that's possible to clear with, you don't need to do much healing and don't even need to keep anyone other than yourself alive.

My OP says 5-8k group dps with me (tank) doing 40% At 5k dps, minus my 2k dps, that means 3k dps among 3 other players. It happened 3 or 4 times in my stretch from 45 to CP.

ForeverJenn wrote: »

novemberhhh wrote: »

Players do that little dmg by just wearing random junk and being afk 90% of the time, and cant be bothered to put on any reasonable gear despite playing for hundreds if not thousands of hours apparantly. So of course the idea of using buffs, dots, and a spammable in any sort of pattern is way outside what they're willing to do.

But just for fun, heres a parse from my sorc with the left mouse button held down while i actually went afk...

If you pull less dps, congrats you just got outparsed by an inanimate object (my coffee mug handle, to be specific).

edit: typos

See that's my point. Your coffee mug is doing 5x the dps of 3 people combined in the situation I'm complaining about. People are getting offended at me calling out DDs doing 1k dps, like I should tolerate it or something.

coffee mug doesn't have to move around, switch targets, etc. dpsing a dungeon =/= dpsing a stationary object that doesn't fight back.

I'm also curious what kind of gear was the parser wearing. cause out of curiosity, I just decided to do the same thing on my sorc. ok, my SO's sorc, as my sorc is primarily a healer and is using matriarch rather then tormentor.

lightning staff infused, with charged weapon enchant. golded weapon, though the rest of the gear is purple. his monster set is slimecraw (so extra crit and minor berserk) and his traits are divines with couple of infused. false god's and mother's sorrow. boon - also shadow. still had food buff left on a character, blue magika and health.

damage was.... 10k from just heavy attacking and letting pets wail on a dummy. I did hold down the button. (pet damage for my parse was slightly lower, but close enough to the parse quoted - so we are looking at 6k from heavy attacking from the character alone, not counting pets.

even while replicating the stated circumstances of the parse, I got 2/3 of the damage of said parse COUNTING pets. more like half if you do not count the pet damage. and the gear I was doing it with is pretty decent. not parse optimized but not bad either. so... where is that difference coming from?

... and I reiterate. this was standing still and not worrying about moving, keeping the target, blocking, dodging, switching targets, resummoning pets cause they nerfed healing them etc.

and this is a pet class. were those two people in a dungeon - sorcs?

witchdoctor wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

coffee mug doesn't have to move around, switch targets, etc. dpsing a dungeon =/= dpsing a stationary object that doesn't fight back.

Just want to point out: everyone knows this. It is a known factor in the whole parsing concept. It is also besides the point. The whole point of parsing is to show what a specific person* can do in a 'perfect' situation. This is also why the raid dummy has all (well, mostly all) the buffs/debuffs. To standardise testing.

Lulu can do 95K on a magblade. I do 76K. I can tell from that alone my light attack weave is well off their's. It a standard test.

*It is also useful for when looking at what Class X can do compared to Class Y.

Linaleah wrote: »

so... where is that difference coming from?

We'd have to see a screenshot of your CMX to try to answer. People, including myself, would be more than happy to do so if you are genuinely interested in learning the answer.

and I'm just saying that in a dungeon situation NOT a parse is what is in OP's original complaint? parsing does NOT apply.
parse I was replying to - did the whole "I put a mug on my mouse button and walked away" deal - they didn't do a rotation, just continuous heavy attack. my CMX percentage wise other then pet damage looked pretty much same. I did what was stated - held down the mouse button for heavy attack. did not get the same damage. that is why I wrote out all the sets worn. the only other thing i can think of is the dummy itself - I used the free one that was given out with Elsweyr event last year. otherwise... crickets? gear differences? something else?

but even then, it is still indeed besides the point. because as we are both saying parse =/= dungeon. so given that my own stated accuracy (in a different game, but since ESO doesn't have a sticky targeting either and i KNOW some of my basic attacks miss and i KNOW mobs move out or get moved out of my AoE's) its not unreasonable to slash that possible parse damage to a fraction of what it is in a parse.

@ForeverJenn , I'd like a bit more context from your original post. Because no matter how you look at it, 5-8k Group dps is extremely low and I've never actually seen that. I always saw 10k+ group dps.

What was the dungeon? normal or vet? dlc or base game?

There are cases where combat metrics show "wrong" info, because if some mob get stuck somewhere (behind a wall or under the ground etc, happens more often than not) they won't lose aggro on you and you get stuck in combat for a long time.
This messes up the combat metrics fight report because the addon computes dps by taking all the dmg dealt and dividing it by fight time. So you will start seeing very low dps numbers compared to what you'd see normally because "stuck in combat" situation makes the addon consider a very long time period as the "fight time". (This happens to me all the time in blackheart haven dungeon, damn harpies ignoring physics)

I suspect op already knows this, but for those that don't, you dont lose 93% (14k/15k) of your dps due to "bosses moving" or whatever other theories (or excuses) you got.
For a quick and sloppy example, I pull ~90k on a trial atro (when not afk for the memes):


and heres a boss that becomes -literally invulnerable- when he flys in the air:


notice i only lost about 15k/90k = 17% of the "parse dps" (most of which was the invuln phases, but some was me just playing like a potato)
btw the 3m dummy also has -no- buffs/debuffs, only the 21m hp iron atro trial dummy has those
in an older patch i did the "coffee cup" test on that dummy, its about 30k dps with those buffs and debuffs
just tab target ("sticky target" as some are calling it here...), hold down left mouse button, and go afk...

That's standard pug DPS range.

except that an inanimate object literally just did 15k dps (could be 20k, but i was too lazy to change my blue pvp cp around and use actual better sets, for example i have exactly 0 points into thaum, even though the shock channel is over 30% of the dmg)
btw tanks will debuff targets (bosses especially) to the 18.2k pen soft cap, its kinda why they wear alkosh...
but yea, not the first time ive done this test lul

you dont even wanna know how much dps is possible using literally 1 skill if 15k afk dps is triggering...

Kurat wrote: »

NoSoup wrote: »

You're doing random normals, what do you expect?

Lol. I tanked vDoM the other day and we had cp 600ish dps in group wearing ebon and s&b. I asked if he queued for wrong role by accident or something but no, he said survivability matters to him lol. Group dps was barely 20k but we managed to clear it after 2 hours. Dont ask why I stayed coz I dont know lol.

It's a brutal dungeon for low damage. Same with Falkreath and Moonhunter.

Stonewatchers, hulking werewolves and Minotaurs hit like a freaking truck.

Just standing there taking hit after hit while the team dent their way through.... It's not fun!

dazee wrote: »

ForeverJenn wrote: »

Yeah. It's just 3k group dps means there's 4 people doing 600dps. Maybe afkers on some auto follow.

Don't remember you saying 3k group dps. I've never seen that ever. I've had groups in which I was doing 80% of the dps as healer, but in any dungeon where that's possible to clear with, you don't need to do much healing and don't even need to keep anyone other than yourself alive.

You'd be surprised at the amount of potatos there are in non-dlc vet dungeons that die if you take your heals off of them for 2 seconds. Whenever you try to do more dps to pick up their slack, they wind up almost dead so you have to hard-focus them with heals. Thankfully normal dungeons don't have this problem, but things die fast enough there anyway so it's not a problem anyway because normals are for people to learn. Unfortunately, plenty of people just jump into vet without knowing the basics of the game.