How is DPS this low on CP 500+ toons?

ForeverJenn · October 2020

zvavi wrote: »

2. It is much less resource heavy. You are not as prone to not being able to sustain because of bad healers.

What bad healers? The ones that don't get a split second to even move to their back bar cause the group is so bad they have to spam heals the entire time? 😂😂😂

Linaleah · October 2020

zvavi wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

YOU can. people like YOU can. which is also the point I was making all along. that its not the gear.

your rotation is better than you give yourself credit for, THAT is the point. when you are used to tight rotations, even when you are not trying, you are STILL going to do better then most.

and to reiterate, I'm not saying its impossible. its obviously possible. all I'm saying is that its only possible for SOME. NOT. for everyone. not even for most.

zvavi's guide to git good for casual players:
Step 1:
Start with practicing the timing. Get combat metrics, and spam slowly light attack+spammable at the low hp dummy. Slowly get faster, up till the point you kill the 300k hp dummy like it with spammables like that with more than 1 skill&light attack per 1.1 seconds. Take a break, go questing while trying to keep up that timing. questing is a valid way to practice. When you come back to the dummy and easily keep the pace and timing, you aren't ready for step 2.

Step2:
static heavy attack rotations.
My first static rotation was heavy attack sorc when i was CP 160, after some practice (at the time skill times etc were pretty short) it consisted of 6 skills, 5 light attacks, and 1 heavy. Lightning staff is really good to balance heavy attack rotation for 3 reasons,
1. It's timing when you weave it with skills goes well with skill cd, unlike the fire heavy attack that takes 2.9 seconds when you weave it with a skill.
2. It gets buffed 4 times by vMA staff and other heavy attack sets like UI ai etc etc etc
3. Lightning staff heavy attacks are just much more satisfying than fire and ice ones. Like seriously. Fire and ice feels slow and annoying, even if they are actually faster than lightning.

So if you are heading to the heavy attack rotation, I would consider lightning staff, the dots you like the most and heavy attack to your heart content
First you will have to chose a rotation. For beginners I would recommend a heavy attack rotation, for 3 reasons.
1. It is taxing to keep up light attacks and skills up when you are not used to it. The heavy attack gives you a small break every rotation, which is very welcome. Especially when you are getting used to mechanics as well.
2. It is much less resource heavy. You are not as prone to not being able to sustain because of bad healers.
3. It gets you used to the very important timing of DoTs, big mistake I see dds at lower levels is that they use their dots once, then burn all their resources on spammables. With 2/3 heavy attacks between reapplying dots you will never forget them.

After creating such a rotation for your favourite class (any sets will do really, good beginner sets for heavy attack rotation that I like are necropotence paired with mechanical acuity, but can't be done on any class, you could pair mechanical with julianos as well, any monster set thrown in.) Go practice it a tiny bit on a 3m hp dummy. After feel like you got it right go dungeon with it a bit, try to focus on using trash potions on cooldown)

Example for such rotations with only 6 skills used (destro ult when you feel like it):
Templar - la, wall, la, ritual of retribution, la mystic orb, barswap, lightning heavy attack, purifying light,
lightning heavy attack, luminous shards, lightning heavy attack, purifying light, barswap, rinse repeat.

Heavy attack weaving quick explanation:
if you use a skill at the second half of your heavy attack it makes you weave the skill in. It is a bit slower than heavy attacking without a skill, but faster than heavy attack+light attack+skill, lightning heavy weaving is perfect for rotations because it takes a very close time to 3 seconds

When your eyes start wandering around during the heavy attack, looking at your allies etc, it is time for step 3.

Step 3:
Static non heavy attack rotation.
At this point you are ready to create your first vet trial build. Weaving in a rotation with many skills easy enough for you to get bored during the heavy attack breaks. You are ready for the trial dummy.
The major difference between trials and dungeons is the amount of support you get from your supports, so you will have a lot more resources coming at you in a trial.
Get yourself sustain food (max resource+resource regeneration) to stimulate trial environment on the trial dummy, and practice your newly made rotation. It will take long, so get an evening ready for it. When you feel comfortable with the rotation, join your social guild in some vet trial runs to test it out.

During this phase I would recommend also changing your dungeon build, adding a spammable on front bar, and alternating between more spammables and more heavy attacks depending on the amount of support you are getting from the healers,
remember, 1 heavy + skill replaces 3(light attack + skill)

Step 4:
When you gain more experience, you can graduate from static rotations, and move on to dynamic ones, but that's not the point of this guide.

This was written inspired by my own journey.

I appreciate the guide, but... IN WHAT WORLD IS THIS CASUAL????? in what world is this even on the same continent as casual?

each one of your steps is missing something crucial. how LONG it takes to progress through them. if you manage to progress at all. because that light attack+ skill in 1.1 second? I. cannot. Do. THAT. I've played this game long enough to have tried. I can do the sequence slowly. I cannot speed it up and I cannot get it so precice as to keep it without FRACTIONS of a second. specific fractions of a second.

what is absolutely bizzare to me is that so called casual game seems to REQUIRE this in order to do decent dps. WHILE having non sticky targets.

zvavi · October 2020

Linaleah wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

YOU can. people like YOU can. which is also the point I was making all along. that its not the gear.

your rotation is better than you give yourself credit for, THAT is the point. when you are used to tight rotations, even when you are not trying, you are STILL going to do better then most.

and to reiterate, I'm not saying its impossible. its obviously possible. all I'm saying is that its only possible for SOME. NOT. for everyone. not even for most.

zvavi's guide to git good for casual players:
Step 1:
Start with practicing the timing. Get combat metrics, and spam slowly light attack+spammable at the low hp dummy. Slowly get faster, up till the point you kill the 300k hp dummy like it with spammables like that with more than 1 skill&light attack per 1.1 seconds. Take a break, go questing while trying to keep up that timing. questing is a valid way to practice. When you come back to the dummy and easily keep the pace and timing, you aren't ready for step 2.

Step2:
static heavy attack rotations.
My first static rotation was heavy attack sorc when i was CP 160, after some practice (at the time skill times etc were pretty short) it consisted of 6 skills, 5 light attacks, and 1 heavy. Lightning staff is really good to balance heavy attack rotation for 3 reasons,
1. It's timing when you weave it with skills goes well with skill cd, unlike the fire heavy attack that takes 2.9 seconds when you weave it with a skill.
2. It gets buffed 4 times by vMA staff and other heavy attack sets like UI ai etc etc etc
3. Lightning staff heavy attacks are just much more satisfying than fire and ice ones. Like seriously. Fire and ice feels slow and annoying, even if they are actually faster than lightning.

So if you are heading to the heavy attack rotation, I would consider lightning staff, the dots you like the most and heavy attack to your heart content
First you will have to chose a rotation. For beginners I would recommend a heavy attack rotation, for 3 reasons.
1. It is taxing to keep up light attacks and skills up when you are not used to it. The heavy attack gives you a small break every rotation, which is very welcome. Especially when you are getting used to mechanics as well.
2. It is much less resource heavy. You are not as prone to not being able to sustain because of bad healers.
3. It gets you used to the very important timing of DoTs, big mistake I see dds at lower levels is that they use their dots once, then burn all their resources on spammables. With 2/3 heavy attacks between reapplying dots you will never forget them.

After creating such a rotation for your favourite class (any sets will do really, good beginner sets for heavy attack rotation that I like are necropotence paired with mechanical acuity, but can't be done on any class, you could pair mechanical with julianos as well, any monster set thrown in.) Go practice it a tiny bit on a 3m hp dummy. After feel like you got it right go dungeon with it a bit, try to focus on using trash potions on cooldown)

Example for such rotations with only 6 skills used (destro ult when you feel like it):
Templar - la, wall, la, ritual of retribution, la mystic orb, barswap, lightning heavy attack, purifying light,
lightning heavy attack, luminous shards, lightning heavy attack, purifying light, barswap, rinse repeat.

Heavy attack weaving quick explanation:
if you use a skill at the second half of your heavy attack it makes you weave the skill in. It is a bit slower than heavy attacking without a skill, but faster than heavy attack+light attack+skill, lightning heavy weaving is perfect for rotations because it takes a very close time to 3 seconds

When your eyes start wandering around during the heavy attack, looking at your allies etc, it is time for step 3.

Step 3:
Static non heavy attack rotation.
At this point you are ready to create your first vet trial build. Weaving in a rotation with many skills easy enough for you to get bored during the heavy attack breaks. You are ready for the trial dummy.
The major difference between trials and dungeons is the amount of support you get from your supports, so you will have a lot more resources coming at you in a trial.
Get yourself sustain food (max resource+resource regeneration) to stimulate trial environment on the trial dummy, and practice your newly made rotation. It will take long, so get an evening ready for it. When you feel comfortable with the rotation, join your social guild in some vet trial runs to test it out.

During this phase I would recommend also changing your dungeon build, adding a spammable on front bar, and alternating between more spammables and more heavy attacks depending on the amount of support you are getting from the healers,
remember, 1 heavy + skill replaces 3(light attack + skill)

Step 4:
When you gain more experience, you can graduate from static rotations, and move on to dynamic ones, but that's not the point of this guide.

This was written inspired by my own journey.

I appreciate the guide, but... IN WHAT WORLD IS THIS CASUAL????? in what world is this even on the same continent as casual?

each one of your steps is missing something crucial. how LONG it takes to progress through them. if you manage to progress at all. because that light attack+ skill in 1.1 second? I. cannot. Do. THAT. I've played this game long enough to have tried. I can do the sequence slowly. I cannot speed it up and I cannot get it so precice as to keep it without FRACTIONS of a second. specific fractions of a second.

what is absolutely bizzare to me is that so called casual game seems to REQUIRE this in order to do decent dps. WHILE having non sticky targets.

I did all the steps up to where you can go do vet dlc trials with a trial guild, that part is definitely not casual, but practicing the timing is definitely done by casually questing. I have helped many with starting to dps, and I have yet to see one not being able to get to quick succession of light attack + spammable of decent speed within 10 minutes of practice. Obviously it doesn't mean he can do it in real content, but to get the feeling it is enough. The secret is to start slow and then speed up until skills and light attacks are still firing. Obviously it is not enough, that's why you graduate from step 1 only when you can do it naturally, after practicing for long during quests.

There are only those who try to take it seriously, and those that don't try (trying to spam it mindlessly is not trying)

Linaleah · October 2020

zvavi wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

YOU can. people like YOU can. which is also the point I was making all along. that its not the gear.

your rotation is better than you give yourself credit for, THAT is the point. when you are used to tight rotations, even when you are not trying, you are STILL going to do better then most.

and to reiterate, I'm not saying its impossible. its obviously possible. all I'm saying is that its only possible for SOME. NOT. for everyone. not even for most.

zvavi's guide to git good for casual players:
Step 1:
Start with practicing the timing. Get combat metrics, and spam slowly light attack+spammable at the low hp dummy. Slowly get faster, up till the point you kill the 300k hp dummy like it with spammables like that with more than 1 skill&light attack per 1.1 seconds. Take a break, go questing while trying to keep up that timing. questing is a valid way to practice. When you come back to the dummy and easily keep the pace and timing, you aren't ready for step 2.

Step2:
static heavy attack rotations.
My first static rotation was heavy attack sorc when i was CP 160, after some practice (at the time skill times etc were pretty short) it consisted of 6 skills, 5 light attacks, and 1 heavy. Lightning staff is really good to balance heavy attack rotation for 3 reasons,
1. It's timing when you weave it with skills goes well with skill cd, unlike the fire heavy attack that takes 2.9 seconds when you weave it with a skill.
2. It gets buffed 4 times by vMA staff and other heavy attack sets like UI ai etc etc etc
3. Lightning staff heavy attacks are just much more satisfying than fire and ice ones. Like seriously. Fire and ice feels slow and annoying, even if they are actually faster than lightning.

So if you are heading to the heavy attack rotation, I would consider lightning staff, the dots you like the most and heavy attack to your heart content
First you will have to chose a rotation. For beginners I would recommend a heavy attack rotation, for 3 reasons.
1. It is taxing to keep up light attacks and skills up when you are not used to it. The heavy attack gives you a small break every rotation, which is very welcome. Especially when you are getting used to mechanics as well.
2. It is much less resource heavy. You are not as prone to not being able to sustain because of bad healers.
3. It gets you used to the very important timing of DoTs, big mistake I see dds at lower levels is that they use their dots once, then burn all their resources on spammables. With 2/3 heavy attacks between reapplying dots you will never forget them.

After creating such a rotation for your favourite class (any sets will do really, good beginner sets for heavy attack rotation that I like are necropotence paired with mechanical acuity, but can't be done on any class, you could pair mechanical with julianos as well, any monster set thrown in.) Go practice it a tiny bit on a 3m hp dummy. After feel like you got it right go dungeon with it a bit, try to focus on using trash potions on cooldown)

Example for such rotations with only 6 skills used (destro ult when you feel like it):
Templar - la, wall, la, ritual of retribution, la mystic orb, barswap, lightning heavy attack, purifying light,
lightning heavy attack, luminous shards, lightning heavy attack, purifying light, barswap, rinse repeat.

Heavy attack weaving quick explanation:
if you use a skill at the second half of your heavy attack it makes you weave the skill in. It is a bit slower than heavy attacking without a skill, but faster than heavy attack+light attack+skill, lightning heavy weaving is perfect for rotations because it takes a very close time to 3 seconds

When your eyes start wandering around during the heavy attack, looking at your allies etc, it is time for step 3.

Step 3:
Static non heavy attack rotation.
At this point you are ready to create your first vet trial build. Weaving in a rotation with many skills easy enough for you to get bored during the heavy attack breaks. You are ready for the trial dummy.
The major difference between trials and dungeons is the amount of support you get from your supports, so you will have a lot more resources coming at you in a trial.
Get yourself sustain food (max resource+resource regeneration) to stimulate trial environment on the trial dummy, and practice your newly made rotation. It will take long, so get an evening ready for it. When you feel comfortable with the rotation, join your social guild in some vet trial runs to test it out.

During this phase I would recommend also changing your dungeon build, adding a spammable on front bar, and alternating between more spammables and more heavy attacks depending on the amount of support you are getting from the healers,
remember, 1 heavy + skill replaces 3(light attack + skill)

Step 4:
When you gain more experience, you can graduate from static rotations, and move on to dynamic ones, but that's not the point of this guide.

This was written inspired by my own journey.

I appreciate the guide, but... IN WHAT WORLD IS THIS CASUAL????? in what world is this even on the same continent as casual?

each one of your steps is missing something crucial. how LONG it takes to progress through them. if you manage to progress at all. because that light attack+ skill in 1.1 second? I. cannot. Do. THAT. I've played this game long enough to have tried. I can do the sequence slowly. I cannot speed it up and I cannot get it so precice as to keep it without FRACTIONS of a second. specific fractions of a second.

what is absolutely bizzare to me is that so called casual game seems to REQUIRE this in order to do decent dps. WHILE having non sticky targets.

I did all the steps up to where you can go do vet dlc trials with a trial guild, that part is definitely not casual, but practicing the timing is definitely done by casually questing. I have helped many with starting to dps, and I have yet to see one not being able to get to quick succession of light attack + spammable of decent speed within 10 minutes of practice. Obviously it doesn't mean he can do it in real content, but to get the feeling it is enough. The secret is to start slow and then speed up until skills and light attacks are still firing. Obviously it is not enough, that's why you graduate from step 1 only when you can do it naturally, after practicing for long during quests.

/waves. you have just met one that couldn't do it even after hours of practice. I would bet that dps you met that managed it within 10 minutes of practice... are also dps that weren't struggling to break 2-3k, bur rather couldn't make it above 20k or something of that nature when trying to improve their dps.

the STARTING point is very. VERY. different.

zvavi · October 2020

Linaleah wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

YOU can. people like YOU can. which is also the point I was making all along. that its not the gear.

your rotation is better than you give yourself credit for, THAT is the point. when you are used to tight rotations, even when you are not trying, you are STILL going to do better then most.

and to reiterate, I'm not saying its impossible. its obviously possible. all I'm saying is that its only possible for SOME. NOT. for everyone. not even for most.

zvavi's guide to git good for casual players:
Step 1:
Start with practicing the timing. Get combat metrics, and spam slowly light attack+spammable at the low hp dummy. Slowly get faster, up till the point you kill the 300k hp dummy like it with spammables like that with more than 1 skill&light attack per 1.1 seconds. Take a break, go questing while trying to keep up that timing. questing is a valid way to practice. When you come back to the dummy and easily keep the pace and timing, you aren't ready for step 2.

Step2:
static heavy attack rotations.
My first static rotation was heavy attack sorc when i was CP 160, after some practice (at the time skill times etc were pretty short) it consisted of 6 skills, 5 light attacks, and 1 heavy. Lightning staff is really good to balance heavy attack rotation for 3 reasons,
1. It's timing when you weave it with skills goes well with skill cd, unlike the fire heavy attack that takes 2.9 seconds when you weave it with a skill.
2. It gets buffed 4 times by vMA staff and other heavy attack sets like UI ai etc etc etc
3. Lightning staff heavy attacks are just much more satisfying than fire and ice ones. Like seriously. Fire and ice feels slow and annoying, even if they are actually faster than lightning.

So if you are heading to the heavy attack rotation, I would consider lightning staff, the dots you like the most and heavy attack to your heart content
First you will have to chose a rotation. For beginners I would recommend a heavy attack rotation, for 3 reasons.
1. It is taxing to keep up light attacks and skills up when you are not used to it. The heavy attack gives you a small break every rotation, which is very welcome. Especially when you are getting used to mechanics as well.
2. It is much less resource heavy. You are not as prone to not being able to sustain because of bad healers.
3. It gets you used to the very important timing of DoTs, big mistake I see dds at lower levels is that they use their dots once, then burn all their resources on spammables. With 2/3 heavy attacks between reapplying dots you will never forget them.

After creating such a rotation for your favourite class (any sets will do really, good beginner sets for heavy attack rotation that I like are necropotence paired with mechanical acuity, but can't be done on any class, you could pair mechanical with julianos as well, any monster set thrown in.) Go practice it a tiny bit on a 3m hp dummy. After feel like you got it right go dungeon with it a bit, try to focus on using trash potions on cooldown)

Example for such rotations with only 6 skills used (destro ult when you feel like it):
Templar - la, wall, la, ritual of retribution, la mystic orb, barswap, lightning heavy attack, purifying light,
lightning heavy attack, luminous shards, lightning heavy attack, purifying light, barswap, rinse repeat.

Heavy attack weaving quick explanation:
if you use a skill at the second half of your heavy attack it makes you weave the skill in. It is a bit slower than heavy attacking without a skill, but faster than heavy attack+light attack+skill, lightning heavy weaving is perfect for rotations because it takes a very close time to 3 seconds

When your eyes start wandering around during the heavy attack, looking at your allies etc, it is time for step 3.

Step 3:
Static non heavy attack rotation.
At this point you are ready to create your first vet trial build. Weaving in a rotation with many skills easy enough for you to get bored during the heavy attack breaks. You are ready for the trial dummy.
The major difference between trials and dungeons is the amount of support you get from your supports, so you will have a lot more resources coming at you in a trial.
Get yourself sustain food (max resource+resource regeneration) to stimulate trial environment on the trial dummy, and practice your newly made rotation. It will take long, so get an evening ready for it. When you feel comfortable with the rotation, join your social guild in some vet trial runs to test it out.

During this phase I would recommend also changing your dungeon build, adding a spammable on front bar, and alternating between more spammables and more heavy attacks depending on the amount of support you are getting from the healers,
remember, 1 heavy + skill replaces 3(light attack + skill)

Step 4:
When you gain more experience, you can graduate from static rotations, and move on to dynamic ones, but that's not the point of this guide.

This was written inspired by my own journey.

I appreciate the guide, but... IN WHAT WORLD IS THIS CASUAL????? in what world is this even on the same continent as casual?

each one of your steps is missing something crucial. how LONG it takes to progress through them. if you manage to progress at all. because that light attack+ skill in 1.1 second? I. cannot. Do. THAT. I've played this game long enough to have tried. I can do the sequence slowly. I cannot speed it up and I cannot get it so precice as to keep it without FRACTIONS of a second. specific fractions of a second.

what is absolutely bizzare to me is that so called casual game seems to REQUIRE this in order to do decent dps. WHILE having non sticky targets.

I did all the steps up to where you can go do vet dlc trials with a trial guild, that part is definitely not casual, but practicing the timing is definitely done by casually questing. I have helped many with starting to dps, and I have yet to see one not being able to get to quick succession of light attack + spammable of decent speed within 10 minutes of practice. Obviously it doesn't mean he can do it in real content, but to get the feeling it is enough. The secret is to start slow and then speed up until skills and light attacks are still firing. Obviously it is not enough, that's why you graduate from step 1 only when you can do it naturally, after practicing for long during quests.

/waves. you have just met one that couldn't do it even after hours of practice. I would bet that dps you met that managed it within 10 minutes of practice... are also dps that weren't struggling to break 2-3k, bur rather couldn't make it above 20k or something of that nature when trying to improve their dps.

the STARTING point is very. VERY. different.

If you are PC EU I don't mind trying to help in person, if pc non EU maybe PTS meeting, or you could try asking in your casual guild for help, a lot of experienced players are willing to help. I would assume you are a case of getting flustered so missing all the timings, so I would recommend you trying to go slower, being with someone to guide you might also help you calm your heart.

Linaleah · October 2020

zvavi wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

YOU can. people like YOU can. which is also the point I was making all along. that its not the gear.

your rotation is better than you give yourself credit for, THAT is the point. when you are used to tight rotations, even when you are not trying, you are STILL going to do better then most.

and to reiterate, I'm not saying its impossible. its obviously possible. all I'm saying is that its only possible for SOME. NOT. for everyone. not even for most.

zvavi's guide to git good for casual players:
Step 1:
Start with practicing the timing. Get combat metrics, and spam slowly light attack+spammable at the low hp dummy. Slowly get faster, up till the point you kill the 300k hp dummy like it with spammables like that with more than 1 skill&light attack per 1.1 seconds. Take a break, go questing while trying to keep up that timing. questing is a valid way to practice. When you come back to the dummy and easily keep the pace and timing, you aren't ready for step 2.

Step2:
static heavy attack rotations.
My first static rotation was heavy attack sorc when i was CP 160, after some practice (at the time skill times etc were pretty short) it consisted of 6 skills, 5 light attacks, and 1 heavy. Lightning staff is really good to balance heavy attack rotation for 3 reasons,
1. It's timing when you weave it with skills goes well with skill cd, unlike the fire heavy attack that takes 2.9 seconds when you weave it with a skill.
2. It gets buffed 4 times by vMA staff and other heavy attack sets like UI ai etc etc etc
3. Lightning staff heavy attacks are just much more satisfying than fire and ice ones. Like seriously. Fire and ice feels slow and annoying, even if they are actually faster than lightning.

So if you are heading to the heavy attack rotation, I would consider lightning staff, the dots you like the most and heavy attack to your heart content
First you will have to chose a rotation. For beginners I would recommend a heavy attack rotation, for 3 reasons.
1. It is taxing to keep up light attacks and skills up when you are not used to it. The heavy attack gives you a small break every rotation, which is very welcome. Especially when you are getting used to mechanics as well.
2. It is much less resource heavy. You are not as prone to not being able to sustain because of bad healers.
3. It gets you used to the very important timing of DoTs, big mistake I see dds at lower levels is that they use their dots once, then burn all their resources on spammables. With 2/3 heavy attacks between reapplying dots you will never forget them.

After creating such a rotation for your favourite class (any sets will do really, good beginner sets for heavy attack rotation that I like are necropotence paired with mechanical acuity, but can't be done on any class, you could pair mechanical with julianos as well, any monster set thrown in.) Go practice it a tiny bit on a 3m hp dummy. After feel like you got it right go dungeon with it a bit, try to focus on using trash potions on cooldown)

Example for such rotations with only 6 skills used (destro ult when you feel like it):
Templar - la, wall, la, ritual of retribution, la mystic orb, barswap, lightning heavy attack, purifying light,
lightning heavy attack, luminous shards, lightning heavy attack, purifying light, barswap, rinse repeat.

Heavy attack weaving quick explanation:
if you use a skill at the second half of your heavy attack it makes you weave the skill in. It is a bit slower than heavy attacking without a skill, but faster than heavy attack+light attack+skill, lightning heavy weaving is perfect for rotations because it takes a very close time to 3 seconds

When your eyes start wandering around during the heavy attack, looking at your allies etc, it is time for step 3.

Step 3:
Static non heavy attack rotation.
At this point you are ready to create your first vet trial build. Weaving in a rotation with many skills easy enough for you to get bored during the heavy attack breaks. You are ready for the trial dummy.
The major difference between trials and dungeons is the amount of support you get from your supports, so you will have a lot more resources coming at you in a trial.
Get yourself sustain food (max resource+resource regeneration) to stimulate trial environment on the trial dummy, and practice your newly made rotation. It will take long, so get an evening ready for it. When you feel comfortable with the rotation, join your social guild in some vet trial runs to test it out.

During this phase I would recommend also changing your dungeon build, adding a spammable on front bar, and alternating between more spammables and more heavy attacks depending on the amount of support you are getting from the healers,
remember, 1 heavy + skill replaces 3(light attack + skill)

Step 4:
When you gain more experience, you can graduate from static rotations, and move on to dynamic ones, but that's not the point of this guide.

This was written inspired by my own journey.

I appreciate the guide, but... IN WHAT WORLD IS THIS CASUAL????? in what world is this even on the same continent as casual?

each one of your steps is missing something crucial. how LONG it takes to progress through them. if you manage to progress at all. because that light attack+ skill in 1.1 second? I. cannot. Do. THAT. I've played this game long enough to have tried. I can do the sequence slowly. I cannot speed it up and I cannot get it so precice as to keep it without FRACTIONS of a second. specific fractions of a second.

what is absolutely bizzare to me is that so called casual game seems to REQUIRE this in order to do decent dps. WHILE having non sticky targets.

I did all the steps up to where you can go do vet dlc trials with a trial guild, that part is definitely not casual, but practicing the timing is definitely done by casually questing. I have helped many with starting to dps, and I have yet to see one not being able to get to quick succession of light attack + spammable of decent speed within 10 minutes of practice. Obviously it doesn't mean he can do it in real content, but to get the feeling it is enough. The secret is to start slow and then speed up until skills and light attacks are still firing. Obviously it is not enough, that's why you graduate from step 1 only when you can do it naturally, after practicing for long during quests.

/waves. you have just met one that couldn't do it even after hours of practice. I would bet that dps you met that managed it within 10 minutes of practice... are also dps that weren't struggling to break 2-3k, bur rather couldn't make it above 20k or something of that nature when trying to improve their dps.

the STARTING point is very. VERY. different.

If you are PC EU I don't mind trying to help in person, if pc non EU maybe PTS meeting, or you could try asking in your casual guild for help, a lot of experienced players are willing to help. I would assume you are a case of getting flustered so missing all the timings, so I would recommend you trying to go slower, being with someone to guide you might also help you calm your heart.

I play on both and I have already tried the guidance of other players. the case of getting flustered happens in actual content. where my damage, healing what have you nosedives the moment I have to perform any kind of mobility. I can move. or i can use abilities. I cannot do both at the same time.

the case of not being able to get the timing right... is the case of NOT BEING ABLE TO GET THE TIMING RIGHT. i don't have the reflexes. I don't have a metronome like precision in my head. I do not have the muscle memory capacity.

I have tried. I am done wasting time trying to do something that is on grand scale of things is so unimportant and pointless and in the end will not improve my gaming experience nearly enough to justify investing my time into this instead of decorating or listening to quest dialogue - things I actualy enjoy, whereas sitting in my house in front of the dummy trying to force my brain and my fingers do something they cannot do - is for ME unenjoyable, frustrating and mind numbing..

I'm merely explaining, from personal experience how its possible that someone with high cp - has such a low damage.

josiahva · October 2020

Linaleah wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

YOU can. people like YOU can. which is also the point I was making all along. that its not the gear.

your rotation is better than you give yourself credit for, THAT is the point. when you are used to tight rotations, even when you are not trying, you are STILL going to do better then most.

and to reiterate, I'm not saying its impossible. its obviously possible. all I'm saying is that its only possible for SOME. NOT. for everyone. not even for most.

zvavi's guide to git good for casual players:
Step 1:
Start with practicing the timing. Get combat metrics, and spam slowly light attack+spammable at the low hp dummy. Slowly get faster, up till the point you kill the 300k hp dummy like it with spammables like that with more than 1 skill&light attack per 1.1 seconds. Take a break, go questing while trying to keep up that timing. questing is a valid way to practice. When you come back to the dummy and easily keep the pace and timing, you aren't ready for step 2.

Step2:
static heavy attack rotations.
My first static rotation was heavy attack sorc when i was CP 160, after some practice (at the time skill times etc were pretty short) it consisted of 6 skills, 5 light attacks, and 1 heavy. Lightning staff is really good to balance heavy attack rotation for 3 reasons,
1. It's timing when you weave it with skills goes well with skill cd, unlike the fire heavy attack that takes 2.9 seconds when you weave it with a skill.
2. It gets buffed 4 times by vMA staff and other heavy attack sets like UI ai etc etc etc
3. Lightning staff heavy attacks are just much more satisfying than fire and ice ones. Like seriously. Fire and ice feels slow and annoying, even if they are actually faster than lightning.

So if you are heading to the heavy attack rotation, I would consider lightning staff, the dots you like the most and heavy attack to your heart content
First you will have to chose a rotation. For beginners I would recommend a heavy attack rotation, for 3 reasons.
1. It is taxing to keep up light attacks and skills up when you are not used to it. The heavy attack gives you a small break every rotation, which is very welcome. Especially when you are getting used to mechanics as well.
2. It is much less resource heavy. You are not as prone to not being able to sustain because of bad healers.
3. It gets you used to the very important timing of DoTs, big mistake I see dds at lower levels is that they use their dots once, then burn all their resources on spammables. With 2/3 heavy attacks between reapplying dots you will never forget them.

After creating such a rotation for your favourite class (any sets will do really, good beginner sets for heavy attack rotation that I like are necropotence paired with mechanical acuity, but can't be done on any class, you could pair mechanical with julianos as well, any monster set thrown in.) Go practice it a tiny bit on a 3m hp dummy. After feel like you got it right go dungeon with it a bit, try to focus on using trash potions on cooldown)

Example for such rotations with only 6 skills used (destro ult when you feel like it):
Templar - la, wall, la, ritual of retribution, la mystic orb, barswap, lightning heavy attack, purifying light,
lightning heavy attack, luminous shards, lightning heavy attack, purifying light, barswap, rinse repeat.

Heavy attack weaving quick explanation:
if you use a skill at the second half of your heavy attack it makes you weave the skill in. It is a bit slower than heavy attacking without a skill, but faster than heavy attack+light attack+skill, lightning heavy weaving is perfect for rotations because it takes a very close time to 3 seconds

When your eyes start wandering around during the heavy attack, looking at your allies etc, it is time for step 3.

Step 3:
Static non heavy attack rotation.
At this point you are ready to create your first vet trial build. Weaving in a rotation with many skills easy enough for you to get bored during the heavy attack breaks. You are ready for the trial dummy.
The major difference between trials and dungeons is the amount of support you get from your supports, so you will have a lot more resources coming at you in a trial.
Get yourself sustain food (max resource+resource regeneration) to stimulate trial environment on the trial dummy, and practice your newly made rotation. It will take long, so get an evening ready for it. When you feel comfortable with the rotation, join your social guild in some vet trial runs to test it out.

During this phase I would recommend also changing your dungeon build, adding a spammable on front bar, and alternating between more spammables and more heavy attacks depending on the amount of support you are getting from the healers,
remember, 1 heavy + skill replaces 3(light attack + skill)

Step 4:
When you gain more experience, you can graduate from static rotations, and move on to dynamic ones, but that's not the point of this guide.

This was written inspired by my own journey.

I appreciate the guide, but... IN WHAT WORLD IS THIS CASUAL????? in what world is this even on the same continent as casual?

each one of your steps is missing something crucial. how LONG it takes to progress through them. if you manage to progress at all. because that light attack+ skill in 1.1 second? I. cannot. Do. THAT. I've played this game long enough to have tried. I can do the sequence slowly. I cannot speed it up and I cannot get it so precice as to keep it without FRACTIONS of a second. specific fractions of a second.

what is absolutely bizzare to me is that so called casual game seems to REQUIRE this in order to do decent dps. WHILE having non sticky targets.

I did all the steps up to where you can go do vet dlc trials with a trial guild, that part is definitely not casual, but practicing the timing is definitely done by casually questing. I have helped many with starting to dps, and I have yet to see one not being able to get to quick succession of light attack + spammable of decent speed within 10 minutes of practice. Obviously it doesn't mean he can do it in real content, but to get the feeling it is enough. The secret is to start slow and then speed up until skills and light attacks are still firing. Obviously it is not enough, that's why you graduate from step 1 only when you can do it naturally, after practicing for long during quests.

/waves. you have just met one that couldn't do it even after hours of practice. I would bet that dps you met that managed it within 10 minutes of practice... are also dps that weren't struggling to break 2-3k, bur rather couldn't make it above 20k or something of that nature when trying to improve their dps.

the STARTING point is very. VERY. different.

I think you are exaggerating here. Everyone is capable of light attack spam...alternating one spammable skill for a light attack is the almost the same thing(using 2 buttons instead of one, which is what his step 1 consists of). Lets put it this way...on my tank with pure tank gear equipped, pure tank CP setup and 1200 weapon damage, just spamming light attack and nothing else at all, I do about 3.5k-4.5k DPS. On one of my "DPS" toons(I use that term very lightly since I am bad at DPS) just spamming light attack with nothing else yields somewhere between 8.5k and 10k DPS...so maybe Step 0 should be...go to a target dummy and just spam light attack as fast as you can, with CP160 gear it should not be possible to do much less than 3.5k unless you are waiting seconds between attacks(different weapons do have different attack speeds too though)

zvavi · October 2020

josiahva wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

YOU can. people like YOU can. which is also the point I was making all along. that its not the gear.

your rotation is better than you give yourself credit for, THAT is the point. when you are used to tight rotations, even when you are not trying, you are STILL going to do better then most.

and to reiterate, I'm not saying its impossible. its obviously possible. all I'm saying is that its only possible for SOME. NOT. for everyone. not even for most.

zvavi's guide to git good for casual players:
Step 1:
Start with practicing the timing. Get combat metrics, and spam slowly light attack+spammable at the low hp dummy. Slowly get faster, up till the point you kill the 300k hp dummy like it with spammables like that with more than 1 skill&light attack per 1.1 seconds. Take a break, go questing while trying to keep up that timing. questing is a valid way to practice. When you come back to the dummy and easily keep the pace and timing, you aren't ready for step 2.

Step2:
static heavy attack rotations.
My first static rotation was heavy attack sorc when i was CP 160, after some practice (at the time skill times etc were pretty short) it consisted of 6 skills, 5 light attacks, and 1 heavy. Lightning staff is really good to balance heavy attack rotation for 3 reasons,
1. It's timing when you weave it with skills goes well with skill cd, unlike the fire heavy attack that takes 2.9 seconds when you weave it with a skill.
2. It gets buffed 4 times by vMA staff and other heavy attack sets like UI ai etc etc etc
3. Lightning staff heavy attacks are just much more satisfying than fire and ice ones. Like seriously. Fire and ice feels slow and annoying, even if they are actually faster than lightning.

So if you are heading to the heavy attack rotation, I would consider lightning staff, the dots you like the most and heavy attack to your heart content
First you will have to chose a rotation. For beginners I would recommend a heavy attack rotation, for 3 reasons.
1. It is taxing to keep up light attacks and skills up when you are not used to it. The heavy attack gives you a small break every rotation, which is very welcome. Especially when you are getting used to mechanics as well.
2. It is much less resource heavy. You are not as prone to not being able to sustain because of bad healers.
3. It gets you used to the very important timing of DoTs, big mistake I see dds at lower levels is that they use their dots once, then burn all their resources on spammables. With 2/3 heavy attacks between reapplying dots you will never forget them.

After creating such a rotation for your favourite class (any sets will do really, good beginner sets for heavy attack rotation that I like are necropotence paired with mechanical acuity, but can't be done on any class, you could pair mechanical with julianos as well, any monster set thrown in.) Go practice it a tiny bit on a 3m hp dummy. After feel like you got it right go dungeon with it a bit, try to focus on using trash potions on cooldown)

Example for such rotations with only 6 skills used (destro ult when you feel like it):
Templar - la, wall, la, ritual of retribution, la mystic orb, barswap, lightning heavy attack, purifying light,
lightning heavy attack, luminous shards, lightning heavy attack, purifying light, barswap, rinse repeat.

Heavy attack weaving quick explanation:
if you use a skill at the second half of your heavy attack it makes you weave the skill in. It is a bit slower than heavy attacking without a skill, but faster than heavy attack+light attack+skill, lightning heavy weaving is perfect for rotations because it takes a very close time to 3 seconds

When your eyes start wandering around during the heavy attack, looking at your allies etc, it is time for step 3.

Step 3:
Static non heavy attack rotation.
At this point you are ready to create your first vet trial build. Weaving in a rotation with many skills easy enough for you to get bored during the heavy attack breaks. You are ready for the trial dummy.
The major difference between trials and dungeons is the amount of support you get from your supports, so you will have a lot more resources coming at you in a trial.
Get yourself sustain food (max resource+resource regeneration) to stimulate trial environment on the trial dummy, and practice your newly made rotation. It will take long, so get an evening ready for it. When you feel comfortable with the rotation, join your social guild in some vet trial runs to test it out.

During this phase I would recommend also changing your dungeon build, adding a spammable on front bar, and alternating between more spammables and more heavy attacks depending on the amount of support you are getting from the healers,
remember, 1 heavy + skill replaces 3(light attack + skill)

Step 4:
When you gain more experience, you can graduate from static rotations, and move on to dynamic ones, but that's not the point of this guide.

This was written inspired by my own journey.

I appreciate the guide, but... IN WHAT WORLD IS THIS CASUAL????? in what world is this even on the same continent as casual?

each one of your steps is missing something crucial. how LONG it takes to progress through them. if you manage to progress at all. because that light attack+ skill in 1.1 second? I. cannot. Do. THAT. I've played this game long enough to have tried. I can do the sequence slowly. I cannot speed it up and I cannot get it so precice as to keep it without FRACTIONS of a second. specific fractions of a second.

what is absolutely bizzare to me is that so called casual game seems to REQUIRE this in order to do decent dps. WHILE having non sticky targets.

I did all the steps up to where you can go do vet dlc trials with a trial guild, that part is definitely not casual, but practicing the timing is definitely done by casually questing. I have helped many with starting to dps, and I have yet to see one not being able to get to quick succession of light attack + spammable of decent speed within 10 minutes of practice. Obviously it doesn't mean he can do it in real content, but to get the feeling it is enough. The secret is to start slow and then speed up until skills and light attacks are still firing. Obviously it is not enough, that's why you graduate from step 1 only when you can do it naturally, after practicing for long during quests.

/waves. you have just met one that couldn't do it even after hours of practice. I would bet that dps you met that managed it within 10 minutes of practice... are also dps that weren't struggling to break 2-3k, bur rather couldn't make it above 20k or something of that nature when trying to improve their dps.

the STARTING point is very. VERY. different.

I think you are exaggerating here. Everyone is capable of light attack spam...alternating one spammable skill for a light attack is the almost the same thing(using 2 buttons instead of one, which is what his step 1 consists of). Lets put it this way...on my tank with pure tank gear equipped, pure tank CP setup and 1200 weapon damage, just spamming light attack and nothing else at all, I do about 3.5k-4.5k DPS. On one of my "DPS" toons(I use that term very lightly since I am bad at DPS) just spamming light attack with nothing else yields somewhere between 8.5k and 10k DPS...so maybe Step 0 should be...go to a target dummy and just spam light attack as fast as you can, with CP160 gear it should not be possible to do much less than 3.5k unless you are waiting seconds between attacks(different weapons do have different attack speeds too though)

Denied, spamming light attacks is a step in the wrong direction. Therefore it is not a step.

Linaleah · October 2020

josiahva wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

YOU can. people like YOU can. which is also the point I was making all along. that its not the gear.

your rotation is better than you give yourself credit for, THAT is the point. when you are used to tight rotations, even when you are not trying, you are STILL going to do better then most.

and to reiterate, I'm not saying its impossible. its obviously possible. all I'm saying is that its only possible for SOME. NOT. for everyone. not even for most.

zvavi's guide to git good for casual players:
Step 1:
Start with practicing the timing. Get combat metrics, and spam slowly light attack+spammable at the low hp dummy. Slowly get faster, up till the point you kill the 300k hp dummy like it with spammables like that with more than 1 skill&light attack per 1.1 seconds. Take a break, go questing while trying to keep up that timing. questing is a valid way to practice. When you come back to the dummy and easily keep the pace and timing, you aren't ready for step 2.

Step2:
static heavy attack rotations.
My first static rotation was heavy attack sorc when i was CP 160, after some practice (at the time skill times etc were pretty short) it consisted of 6 skills, 5 light attacks, and 1 heavy. Lightning staff is really good to balance heavy attack rotation for 3 reasons,
1. It's timing when you weave it with skills goes well with skill cd, unlike the fire heavy attack that takes 2.9 seconds when you weave it with a skill.
2. It gets buffed 4 times by vMA staff and other heavy attack sets like UI ai etc etc etc
3. Lightning staff heavy attacks are just much more satisfying than fire and ice ones. Like seriously. Fire and ice feels slow and annoying, even if they are actually faster than lightning.

So if you are heading to the heavy attack rotation, I would consider lightning staff, the dots you like the most and heavy attack to your heart content
First you will have to chose a rotation. For beginners I would recommend a heavy attack rotation, for 3 reasons.
1. It is taxing to keep up light attacks and skills up when you are not used to it. The heavy attack gives you a small break every rotation, which is very welcome. Especially when you are getting used to mechanics as well.
2. It is much less resource heavy. You are not as prone to not being able to sustain because of bad healers.
3. It gets you used to the very important timing of DoTs, big mistake I see dds at lower levels is that they use their dots once, then burn all their resources on spammables. With 2/3 heavy attacks between reapplying dots you will never forget them.

After creating such a rotation for your favourite class (any sets will do really, good beginner sets for heavy attack rotation that I like are necropotence paired with mechanical acuity, but can't be done on any class, you could pair mechanical with julianos as well, any monster set thrown in.) Go practice it a tiny bit on a 3m hp dummy. After feel like you got it right go dungeon with it a bit, try to focus on using trash potions on cooldown)

Example for such rotations with only 6 skills used (destro ult when you feel like it):
Templar - la, wall, la, ritual of retribution, la mystic orb, barswap, lightning heavy attack, purifying light,
lightning heavy attack, luminous shards, lightning heavy attack, purifying light, barswap, rinse repeat.

Heavy attack weaving quick explanation:
if you use a skill at the second half of your heavy attack it makes you weave the skill in. It is a bit slower than heavy attacking without a skill, but faster than heavy attack+light attack+skill, lightning heavy weaving is perfect for rotations because it takes a very close time to 3 seconds

When your eyes start wandering around during the heavy attack, looking at your allies etc, it is time for step 3.

Step 3:
Static non heavy attack rotation.
At this point you are ready to create your first vet trial build. Weaving in a rotation with many skills easy enough for you to get bored during the heavy attack breaks. You are ready for the trial dummy.
The major difference between trials and dungeons is the amount of support you get from your supports, so you will have a lot more resources coming at you in a trial.
Get yourself sustain food (max resource+resource regeneration) to stimulate trial environment on the trial dummy, and practice your newly made rotation. It will take long, so get an evening ready for it. When you feel comfortable with the rotation, join your social guild in some vet trial runs to test it out.

During this phase I would recommend also changing your dungeon build, adding a spammable on front bar, and alternating between more spammables and more heavy attacks depending on the amount of support you are getting from the healers,
remember, 1 heavy + skill replaces 3(light attack + skill)

Step 4:
When you gain more experience, you can graduate from static rotations, and move on to dynamic ones, but that's not the point of this guide.

This was written inspired by my own journey.

I appreciate the guide, but... IN WHAT WORLD IS THIS CASUAL????? in what world is this even on the same continent as casual?

each one of your steps is missing something crucial. how LONG it takes to progress through them. if you manage to progress at all. because that light attack+ skill in 1.1 second? I. cannot. Do. THAT. I've played this game long enough to have tried. I can do the sequence slowly. I cannot speed it up and I cannot get it so precice as to keep it without FRACTIONS of a second. specific fractions of a second.

what is absolutely bizzare to me is that so called casual game seems to REQUIRE this in order to do decent dps. WHILE having non sticky targets.

I did all the steps up to where you can go do vet dlc trials with a trial guild, that part is definitely not casual, but practicing the timing is definitely done by casually questing. I have helped many with starting to dps, and I have yet to see one not being able to get to quick succession of light attack + spammable of decent speed within 10 minutes of practice. Obviously it doesn't mean he can do it in real content, but to get the feeling it is enough. The secret is to start slow and then speed up until skills and light attacks are still firing. Obviously it is not enough, that's why you graduate from step 1 only when you can do it naturally, after practicing for long during quests.

/waves. you have just met one that couldn't do it even after hours of practice. I would bet that dps you met that managed it within 10 minutes of practice... are also dps that weren't struggling to break 2-3k, bur rather couldn't make it above 20k or something of that nature when trying to improve their dps.

the STARTING point is very. VERY. different.

I think you are exaggerating here. Everyone is capable of light attack spam...alternating one spammable skill for a light attack is the almost the same thing(using 2 buttons instead of one, which is what his step 1 consists of). Lets put it this way...on my tank with pure tank gear equipped, pure tank CP setup and 1200 weapon damage, just spamming light attack and nothing else at all, I do about 3.5k-4.5k DPS. On one of my "DPS" toons(I use that term very lightly since I am bad at DPS) just spamming light attack with nothing else yields somewhere between 8.5k and 10k DPS...so maybe Step 0 should be...go to a target dummy and just spam light attack as fast as you can, with CP160 gear it should not be possible to do much less than 3.5k unless you are waiting seconds between attacks(different weapons do have different attack speeds too though)

just spamming light attack as fast as I can - nets me between 5 and 6k AT cp160 gear. while leveling and NOT being max level with very likely a mishmash of sets that are varying degrees under my characters actual level - its less. but this is being stationary and doing nothing but rapidly clicking ONE mouse button until my finger starts to ache and go numb and I have to slow down (doesn't take all that long either)

however. and this is important. when you are in a dungeon. you are not stationary. your TARGET is not stationary. you have to keep adjusting your aim while also paying attention to your surroundings.

I get that for highly skill players its something you don't even consider, its subconscious to the point of being similar to breathing - you just do it without thinking. but for someone like me, I have to think about it. every time. I have to consciously chose each of my actions. every single time.

ForeverJenn · October 2020

@Linaleah I'm no good at dps either. 18k is about what I can do. I just can't understand rotation much. But still, that's a far cry from the 3k my original post is referring to. I'm a pretty good healer, tho and doing ok as a tank. You might enjoy group content more in one of those roles. Of course, play how you wanna play. But it's just a suggestion that worked for me.

SilverBride · October 2020

ForeverJenn wrote: »

@Linaleah I'm no good at dps either. 18k is about what I can do. I just can't understand rotation much. But still, that's a far cry from the 3k my original post is referring to. I'm a pretty good healer, tho and doing ok as a tank. You might enjoy group content more in one of those roles. Of course, play how you wanna play. But it's just a suggestion that worked for me.

That is not a solution. People should be able to play whatever role they enjoy.

The solution is to stop expecting vet level performance in regular dungeons.

Linaleah · October 2020

ForeverJenn wrote: »

@Linaleah I'm no good at dps either. 18k is about what I can do. I just can't understand rotation much. But still, that's a far cry from the 3k my original post is referring to. I'm a pretty good healer, tho and doing ok as a tank. You might enjoy group content more in one of those roles. Of course, play how you wanna play. But it's just a suggestion that worked for me.

healing is what i do in group content. tanking I only do when playing with my SO and its really more of a general support role where I hold bosses/stronger more or less in place, while keeping myself alive doing minimal damage, while he actual kills things. I can do that because he doesn't rush me, so I can pull at my pace and control groups at my pace. he gives me time to get my positioning in place, while bulk of the groups especially random groups ... do not. which is why i do not tank for anyone, but him nowadays. maaaaybe once in a blue moon for super casual guildies, though not recently.

healing normals while can be hectic since people don't always move out of things quickly, or do all the mechanics - has enough of an AoE/don't have to be super good at aiming (most oh crap heals on characters that I prefer to heal on - templar and sorc, do not require precise aiming at all - especially sorc) to allow me to do ok. I even manage to occasionally keep up with ele drain on bosses and combat prayer buff on more then one person at a time.

but that said.. I reiterate. 3k in a dungeon per person? is very easily possible, where sometimes your attacks don't land or mobs move out of your AoE's or you are so busy not dying in bad, that you stop dps and just move, or you are still leveling and are NOT lvl 50 yet and so your gear/skills/passives are still a work in progress. etc etc. there are plenty of circumstances to explain a damage that low that is not bots or phoning it in.

ForeverJenn · October 2020

SilverBride wrote: »

ForeverJenn wrote: »

@Linaleah I'm no good at dps either. 18k is about what I can do. I just can't understand rotation much. But still, that's a far cry from the 3k my original post is referring to. I'm a pretty good healer, tho and doing ok as a tank. You might enjoy group content more in one of those roles. Of course, play how you wanna play. But it's just a suggestion that worked for me.

That is not a solution. People should be able to play whatever role they enjoy.

The solution is to stop expecting vet level performance in regular dungeons.

I literally said play what you wanna play. And expecting more than 2-3k dps isn't vet level expectation. I expect 20+ in a vet. I'm doing 3k on a non-vet level tank that spams heavy attack. Why an actually dps role can't out dps a tank is why I'm asking this in the first place.

Emmagoldman · October 2020

ForeverJenn wrote: »

So I levelled a tank over the weekend. Several times, while doing my random normal dungeons, I'd get groups of 3 500+CP. These groups were pulling 5-8k dps as a group, with me doing about 40% as a tank. How is this even possible? I am asking because I only tank and heal and am 810+ and my friends range from 18k to 60k per person. How are ppl this high doing less dps then my lowbie tank? I just wonder how this is possible, as I'm not dps, but even if I do try, I can at least pull 18k without knowing what I'm doing. Bots maybe?

In some cases borrowed or bought accounts

ForeverJenn · October 2020

Linaleah wrote: »

ForeverJenn wrote: »

@Linaleah I'm no good at dps either. 18k is about what I can do. I just can't understand rotation much. But still, that's a far cry from the 3k my original post is referring to. I'm a pretty good healer, tho and doing ok as a tank. You might enjoy group content more in one of those roles. Of course, play how you wanna play. But it's just a suggestion that worked for me.

healing is what i do in group content. tanking I only do when playing with my SO and its really more of a general support role where I hold bosses/stronger more or less in place, while keeping myself alive doing minimal damage, while he actual kills things. I can do that because he doesn't rush me, so I can pull at my pace and control groups at my pace. he gives me time to get my positioning in place, while bulk of the groups especially random groups ... do not. which is why i do not tank for anyone, but him nowadays. maaaaybe once in a blue moon for super casual guildies, though not recently.

healing normals while can be hectic since people don't always move out of things quickly, or do all the mechanics - has enough of an AoE/don't have to be super good at aiming (most oh crap heals on characters that I prefer to heal on - templar and sorc, do not require precise aiming at all - especially sorc) to allow me to do ok. I even manage to occasionally keep up with ele drain on bosses and combat prayer buff on more then one person at a time.

but that said.. I reiterate. 3k in a dungeon per person? is very easily possible, where sometimes your attacks don't land or mobs move out of your AoE's or you are so busy not dying in bad, that you stop dps and just move, or you are still leveling and are NOT lvl 50 yet and so your gear/skills/passives are still a work in progress. etc etc. there are plenty of circumstances to explain a damage that low that is not bots or phoning it in.

I'm referring to CP 500 players that can't out dps a lvl 45 tank....I couldn't hit 2k dps as a dps role at lvl 500 unless I literally went AFK.

Linaleah · October 2020

ForeverJenn wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

ForeverJenn wrote: »

@Linaleah I'm no good at dps either. 18k is about what I can do. I just can't understand rotation much. But still, that's a far cry from the 3k my original post is referring to. I'm a pretty good healer, tho and doing ok as a tank. You might enjoy group content more in one of those roles. Of course, play how you wanna play. But it's just a suggestion that worked for me.

healing is what i do in group content. tanking I only do when playing with my SO and its really more of a general support role where I hold bosses/stronger more or less in place, while keeping myself alive doing minimal damage, while he actual kills things. I can do that because he doesn't rush me, so I can pull at my pace and control groups at my pace. he gives me time to get my positioning in place, while bulk of the groups especially random groups ... do not. which is why i do not tank for anyone, but him nowadays. maaaaybe once in a blue moon for super casual guildies, though not recently.

healing normals while can be hectic since people don't always move out of things quickly, or do all the mechanics - has enough of an AoE/don't have to be super good at aiming (most oh crap heals on characters that I prefer to heal on - templar and sorc, do not require precise aiming at all - especially sorc) to allow me to do ok. I even manage to occasionally keep up with ele drain on bosses and combat prayer buff on more then one person at a time.

but that said.. I reiterate. 3k in a dungeon per person? is very easily possible, where sometimes your attacks don't land or mobs move out of your AoE's or you are so busy not dying in bad, that you stop dps and just move, or you are still leveling and are NOT lvl 50 yet and so your gear/skills/passives are still a work in progress. etc etc. there are plenty of circumstances to explain a damage that low that is not bots or phoning it in.

I'm referring to CP 500 players that can't out dps a lvl 45 tank....I couldn't hit 2k dps as a dps role at lvl 500 unless I literally went AFK.

my guess is combination of aiming issues with slower reflexes. as I said... for some players aiming and ability use WHILE moving is ingrained. for others its a conscious choice that doesn't always work out as intended.

SilverBride · October 2020

ForeverJenn wrote: »

Why an actually dps role can't out dps a tank is why I'm asking this in the first place.

And that is what we are trying to explain.

I am CP 550 +. I don't know what my dps is. I have the Precursor you can get in Clockwork City that I've tested it on, but I don't know what level mob he represents. I average 6 to 9k on my 3 characters, with my Stamina Nightblade performing best. Yet I am still hesitant to try a dungeon, not because people will think I stink as much as because I want to be able to carry my own weight. Threads like this make me even more hesitant to give it a try.

Also, the Precursor just stands there. He doesn't move, or fight back, or cast AOEs I have to move out of, so I don't know how accurate this really is.

Irfind · October 2020

Or lvl up in dungeon (jep it was one time with my DK) ? Lvl 46 gear and got from lvl 49 to 50 (810 CP)

my damage was 7k.

And other players low lvl, i was sweating please tank dont go

zaria · October 2020

Grianasteri wrote: »

ForeverJenn wrote: »

Grianasteri wrote: »

ForeverJenn wrote: »

So I levelled a tank over the weekend. Several times, while doing my random normal dungeons, I'd get groups of 3 500+CP. These groups were pulling 5-8k dps as a group, with me doing about 40% as a tank. How is this even possible? I am asking because I only tank and heal and am 810+ and my friends range from 18k to 60k per person. How are ppl this high doing less dps then my lowbie tank? I just wonder how this is possible, as I'm not dps, but even if I do try, I can at least pull 18k without knowing what I'm doing. Bots maybe?

Easy, CP is only ONE component of DPS. HIgh CP does not magically = high or even decent dps.

I know of 810 cp players, who when tested for the first time were doing about 12k dps. They had never heard of light attack weaving, or a rotation and were not running anything even close to meta. Their CP allocation was also all over the place anyway, and tons of it had not even been allocated. I also know of a CP300 player, who was basically in the same boat as above, but was not even running full sets, they didnt have a single full set on.

All of the above is absolutely fine, you can clear everything overland like that, and probably most normal dungeons no problem, especially in a reasonable group. You can have great fun.

So, when you think about it, its actually easy to see how an average, casual player, who plays for fun, even long term, just hasnt engaged with the things that increase dps.

Yeah but your example is of a guy that's doing twice as much dps as these group combined. That's why I'm so confused.

Ok fair point, on console we dont have ANY combat metrics or analytics in any way shape or form. If its really as low as 5k dps, from BOTH dps players, that is insanely low.

its 2 dd, tank and healer. 5K dps is low for an healer, wall of lighting and shard on tank is standard, even if tank/ group is weak or fake so you need to heal as crazy you still need to HA to get magic back.

My main problem has been no communication, healing vet darkshade 2, one guy with 11K health who did not respond to "EAT FOOD NOW", left group on second boss. Would probably left in normal too.

ForeverJenn · October 2020

Well, if we're to the point where expecting more than 3k dps from CP 500-700 dps roles is "expecting vet level performance", then I'm not going to find the answer I'm looking for. I was under the impression DLC vet needed combined 50-60k. But what do I know? I've only completed them all.

DeathStalker_X · October 2020

I'm a CP913 tank, using Thunderbug Carapace and gold bow - I do an average of 31k+ and have gone as high as 92k+ (that I've noticed, depending on how many times they get hit by the TC). I've done a lot of the Group Dungeons solo CoH I) being one of them, but there are some I just get slaughtered in - especially when there is more than one boss. Most of the time I can handle any single boss.

How does that rate for a tank? (and yes, I do weave between Consuming Trap IV, Endless Hail 4, Solar Barrage IV, and Acid Spray IV - I have timers on them so I know when to cycle. I use Ballista IV as my Ultimate. That 31K+ is WITHOUT Solar Barrage IV and against a single "standard" opponent - twice that if 2 opponents.

Thanks!

ForeverJenn · October 2020

DeathStalker_X wrote: »

I'm a CP913 tank, using Thunderbug Carapace and gold bow - I do an average of 31k+ and have gone as high as 92k+ (that I've noticed, depending on how many times they get hit by the TC). I've done a lot of the Group Dungeons solo CoH I) being one of them, but there are some I just get slaughtered in - especially when there is more than one boss. Most of the time I can handle any single boss.

How does that rate for a tank? (and yes, I do weave between Consuming Trap IV, Endless Hail 4, Solar Barrage IV, and Acid Spray IV - I have timers on them so I know when to cycle. I use Ballista IV as my Ultimate. That 31K+ is WITHOUT Solar Barrage IV.

Thanks!

No one is talking about fake tanks, bro, lol.

zaria · October 2020

SilverBride wrote: »

ForeverJenn wrote: »

Why an actually dps role can't out dps a tank is why I'm asking this in the first place.

And that is what we are trying to explain.

I am CP 550 +. I don't know what my dps is. I have the Precursor you can get in Clockwork City that I've tested it on, but I don't know what level mob he represents. I average 6 to 9k on my 3 characters, with my Stamina Nightblade performing best. Yet I am still hesitant to try a dungeon, not because people will think I stink as much as because I want to be able to carry my own weight. Threads like this make me even more hesitant to give it a try.

Also, the Precursor just stands there. He doesn't move, or fight back, or cast AOEs I have to move out of, so I don't know how accurate this really is.

What gear are you using? and who skills?
The Precursor is nice for testing, very nice on console as you don't have addons who show dps over time and killing an 3M health dummy with low dps is boring.
However it has low resistance so your dps on an real dungeon boss would be a bit lower. You might also run out of resources on an long fight but ignore details

SilverBride · October 2020

ForeverJenn wrote: »

Well, if we're to the point where expecting more than 3k dps from CP 500-700 dps roles is "expecting vet level performance", then I'm not going to find the answer I'm looking for. I was under the impression DLC vet needed 50-60k. But what do I know? I've only completed them all.

This is the kind of statement that deters players from doing dungeons or trials, and learning to perform better. Players need to actually get into the setting to see where their weaknesses are, and to learn the particular mechanics. Practice makes perfect, but how does someone get comfortable getting the practice they need if they know they will be judged and looked down upon by players with a superior attitude?

ForeverJenn · October 2020

SilverBride wrote: »

ForeverJenn wrote: »

Well, if we're to the point where expecting more than 3k dps from CP 500-700 dps roles is "expecting vet level performance", then I'm not going to find the answer I'm looking for. I was under the impression DLC vet needed 50-60k. But what do I know? I've only completed them all.

This is the kind of statement that deters players from doing dungeons or trials, and learning to perform better. Players need to actually get into the setting to see where their weaknesses are, and to learn the particular mechanics. Practice makes perfect, but how does someone get comfortable getting the practice they need if they know they will be judged and looked down upon by players with a superior attitude?

It's not a superior attitude. I pull 4k on my weakest healer by standing there spamming nothing but heavy attack on a resto staff. A combined total of 3k dps between THREE people shouldn't even be possible. If three of you doing 6k, that would be 18k. What I'm talking about is 500% LESS than what you're talking about.

SilverBride · October 2020

zaria wrote: »

What gear are you using? and who skills?

https://alcasthq.com/eso-solo-stamina-nightblade-build-pve/

I use this build, and follow it pretty closely for the skills. I know it is set up for solo, but that is how I play 95% of the time. I use the dual wield option, rather than the 2 handed, with bow for back bar.

My gear is all Ravenous, purple quality, that I enchanted with stamina, and damage on the weapons.

I can't get the recommended dungeon gear unless I am able to run dungeons effectively, so it's a vicious circle.

DeathStalker_X · October 2020

ForeverJenn wrote: »

DeathStalker_X wrote: »

I'm a CP913 tank, using Thunderbug Carapace and gold bow - I do an average of 31k+ and have gone as high as 92k+ (that I've noticed, depending on how many times they get hit by the TC). I've done a lot of the Group Dungeons solo CoH I) being one of them, but there are some I just get slaughtered in - especially when there is more than one boss. Most of the time I can handle any single boss.

How does that rate for a tank? (and yes, I do weave between Consuming Trap IV, Endless Hail 4, Solar Barrage IV, and Acid Spray IV - I have timers on them so I know when to cycle. I use Ballista IV as my Ultimate. That 31K+ is WITHOUT Solar Barrage IV.

Thanks!

No one is talking about fake tanks, bro, lol.

That what would you suggest for a tank? And what damage would you be expecting? And thanks for the insult instead of any constructive criticism. The forum doesn't need members like you. Clearly you contribute nothing helpful.

ForeverJenn · October 2020

DeathStalker_X wrote: »

ForeverJenn wrote: »

DeathStalker_X wrote: »

I'm a CP913 tank, using Thunderbug Carapace and gold bow - I do an average of 31k+ and have gone as high as 92k+ (that I've noticed, depending on how many times they get hit by the TC). I've done a lot of the Group Dungeons solo CoH I) being one of them, but there are some I just get slaughtered in - especially when there is more than one boss. Most of the time I can handle any single boss.

How does that rate for a tank? (and yes, I do weave between Consuming Trap IV, Endless Hail 4, Solar Barrage IV, and Acid Spray IV - I have timers on them so I know when to cycle. I use Ballista IV as my Ultimate. That 31K+ is WITHOUT Solar Barrage IV.

Thanks!

No one is talking about fake tanks, bro, lol.

That what would you suggest for a tank? And what damage would you be expecting? And thanks for the insult instead of any constructive criticism. The forum doesn't need members like you. Clearly you contribute nothing helpful.

Fake tank isn't an insult. In fact, they're often a boon. It just means the tank is doing more dps than a legit tank. Most of the dungeons don't even need a real tank.

DeathStalker_X · October 2020

ForeverJenn wrote: »

DeathStalker_X wrote: »

ForeverJenn wrote: »

DeathStalker_X wrote: »

I'm a CP913 tank, using Thunderbug Carapace and gold bow - I do an average of 31k+ and have gone as high as 92k+ (that I've noticed, depending on how many times they get hit by the TC). I've done a lot of the Group Dungeons solo CoH I) being one of them, but there are some I just get slaughtered in - especially when there is more than one boss. Most of the time I can handle any single boss.

How does that rate for a tank? (and yes, I do weave between Consuming Trap IV, Endless Hail 4, Solar Barrage IV, and Acid Spray IV - I have timers on them so I know when to cycle. I use Ballista IV as my Ultimate. That 31K+ is WITHOUT Solar Barrage IV.

Thanks!

No one is talking about fake tanks, bro, lol.

That what would you suggest for a tank? And what damage would you be expecting? And thanks for the insult instead of any constructive criticism. The forum doesn't need members like you. Clearly you contribute nothing helpful.

Fake tank isn't an insult. In fact, they're often a boon. It just means the tank is doing more dps than a legit tank. Most of the dungeons don't even need a real tank.

OH! I didn't realize that, my sincere apologies! So you think I'm doing pretty good then? Health (with food/drink) is usually around 37K, so that also boosts the TC shield.

ForeverJenn · October 2020

DeathStalker_X wrote: »

ForeverJenn wrote: »

DeathStalker_X wrote: »

ForeverJenn wrote: »

DeathStalker_X wrote: »

I'm a CP913 tank, using Thunderbug Carapace and gold bow - I do an average of 31k+ and have gone as high as 92k+ (that I've noticed, depending on how many times they get hit by the TC). I've done a lot of the Group Dungeons solo CoH I) being one of them, but there are some I just get slaughtered in - especially when there is more than one boss. Most of the time I can handle any single boss.

How does that rate for a tank? (and yes, I do weave between Consuming Trap IV, Endless Hail 4, Solar Barrage IV, and Acid Spray IV - I have timers on them so I know when to cycle. I use Ballista IV as my Ultimate. That 31K+ is WITHOUT Solar Barrage IV.

Thanks!

No one is talking about fake tanks, bro, lol.

That what would you suggest for a tank? And what damage would you be expecting? And thanks for the insult instead of any constructive criticism. The forum doesn't need members like you. Clearly you contribute nothing helpful.

Fake tank isn't an insult. In fact, they're often a boon. It just means the tank is doing more dps than a legit tank. Most of the dungeons don't even need a real tank.

OH! I didn't realize that, my sincere apologies! So you think I'm doing pretty good then? Health (with food/drink) is usually around 37K, so that also boosts the TC shield.

37k dps is above average dps for a DD. But if the tank is legimately tanking (say a veteran or trial) they need to be focusing on other stuff than dps. His/her dps in such a cicumstance shouldn't top 5-10k, really. Otherwise they're not doing something they should be.