Current Gaming Business Meta

Mythreindeer · October 2020

I've been playing MMO/RPGs for 15+ years though I am new to to ESO (about 6 weeks in now and ESO Plus after the first week). ESO is a very good MMO as far as these go IMO and I really like it. That said I'm pretty disappointed to see yet another game that seems to be neglecting optimization and game performance. The assumption is that time and resources are spent on content and microtransaction generation rather than fixing bugs and server capability. I uninstalled two games recently after they had become all but unplayable due to bugs, lag spikes and disconnects and the owning company clearly didn't give a crap as long as revenue was still coming in. A business model that wouldn't fly in most any other industry. I'm not giving up on ESO but personally I won't give long-term support to a company that prefers to bilk customers rather than offer a good gaming experience. I am hopeful that the Microsoft buyout will be beneficial but not holding my breath as it seems the buyout is often the death knell for game quality.

Is your experience different? What games do you play that offer a sound player experience?

relentless_turnip · October 2020

I love this game, deeply saddened at how much performance has deteriated in the 2 years I have played it. The worst being Harrowstorms release. 6 months+ and no closer to a playable cyrodill.

Playing cyrodill for the first year was the best gaming experience I have ever had. I hope Microsoft steps in or ZOS finds a way to implement Stadia without such a huge disruption to all other platforms. It would IMO be the best MMO on the market if it wasn't so crippled by it performance.

Danikat · October 2020

ZOS don't think they've been ignoring performace. They ran a year long 'performance improvement plan' from 2019-20, then started addressing new problems that appeared with Greymoor and preparing the game for launch on the new consoles, and apparently they're planning more improvements in future. On top of that every set of patch notes includes a long list of bug fixes, including ones for older content.

Whether any of it makes any difference is debatable (literally, there's numerous long forum topics on the subject). But ZOS at least claim to be doing their best to make sure the game runs well.

Also this is hardly the only industry where companies get by on releasing sub-standard products knowing people will buy it anyway, and then buy another one when it stops working. Why do you think so many people these days rely on customer reviews before buying anything? (To the point where there's a growing industry for producing fake reviews on sites like Amazon, because they can be the deciding factor in whether a new product or company succeeds.) You can't seriously tell me you've never heard that certain makes of car or electronics have a reputation for being horribly unreliable but selling anyway because people like the brand name or the flashy design? Or 'fast fashion' where companies sell poor quality clothes cheaply, knowing their customers will just throw them away and buy new ones in a few months.

(None of which makes it ok of course, I'm just saying it's not some weird quirk that only MMO players would ever accept a product which looks good but isn't as functional or durable as it could be.)

Having said that my experience in ESO is largely fine. I'm told that's because the problems somehow don't affect open-world PvE or dungeons (apart from the group finder, which rarely works, but then I rarely use it anyway as I prefer guild groups) and since I never do PvP I don't see the problems other players get. But since I have no intention of playing PvP regardless of how well it runs I can't comment on that, I just know ESO is generally ok for me.

trackdemon5512 · October 2020

ZOS has been continually improving performance for the last two years and it shows. Graphical fidelity has substantially jumped as well as the complexity of enemies and battles PVE-wise. At the same time power/resource creep has created unplanned situations, centrally in PvP Cyrodiil, where due to the nature of tracking extremely large scale battles it causes systems to run out of memory or the servers to be overwhelmed.

Consequently many of the improvements made under the hood were done in an attempt to keep combat the way it has evolved to with large zergs and resource intensive ball groups. Many of those improvements significantly improved performance but said improvements are masked by that they’re still not enough to compensate.

It’s like retrofitting a pickup truck with a load too large to carry. You could make all sorts of improvements to the efficiency of the vehicle to perform better under certain lesser loads but if it still goes over the maximum limit the vehicle will crap out and break down.

Let’s see what happens when the new combat changes go live.

tsaescishoeshiner · October 2020

The assumption is that time and resources are spent on content and microtransaction generation rather than fixing bugs and server capability.

This is somewhat speculative, and some evidence of ZOS choosing one over the other or some details of what disappointed you personally about ESO's performance might be helpful.

Is your experience different?

Yeah. Most of the performance problems occur in trials and Cyrodiil (both of these have been the subject of server and combat improvements lately). The pain lies in veteran trials and Cyrodiil being seen by many as the true combat endgame, so a lot of the most dedicated and invested PvX players have been disappointed. I've just been doing veteran DLC dungeons, battlegrounds, dueling, housing, farming, and overland content, so I'm not playing where most of the performance issues lie.

I keep playing ESO because I'm having a good gaming experience. I like the combat system, the visual style, the community, and the progression.

TineaCruris · October 2020

The last two years of ESO have been the worst the game has known, and the trend is toward getting worse, not better. Any claims to the contrary are not factually reflective of what is happening to the games performance over that time.

When this game worked it was the best game ever created. If they would do what ever worked so well during the MYM event full time, it could be again.

pink_panther · October 2020

TineaCruris wrote: »

The last two years of ESO have been the worst the game has known, and the trend is toward getting worse, not better. Any claims to the contrary are not factually reflective of what is happening to the games performance over that time.

When this game worked it was the best game ever created. If they would do what ever worked so well during the MYM event full time, it could be again.

Well I guess It's because they are working at a new engine for an other AAA title.

So eso is just the cash cow to finance it.
They only do minimal fixes and add crown store stuff.

Sergykid · October 2020

being of the few that do not have performance problems, the other (main) problem is the late game or competitive content. The first hours in the game are wonderful, and if you play for story and overland content, it's still wonderful. But as you want to get better, you will encounter the problems.
pvp requires a heavy amount of dedication and research to even start comprehending it. In pve normal is too easy and veteran is too hard.

DMuehlhausen · October 2020

Sure it's not optimized, and runs mostly from the CPU....the game is also going to be 7 years old. So this wasy out before the massive leaps in video cards were coming out on almost an annual basis. This was out in the 6 series I think was the best card from Nvidia.

EdmondDontes · October 2020

Today performance in cyro wasn't too bad, but the lag is still not what the game is telling us it is, and when you hit a ball group, you really notice.

Did they ever tell us what they did that improved performance during the midyear mayhem event?

Mythreindeer · October 2020

In my original post I asked if any of you play other games that perform mostly bug and lag free and what those games might be. Everyone playing ESO exclusively? I am but I am new and not bored with any parts of the game to this point.

I am on a mission to find gaming companies with integrity. I don't mean to sound like I'm bashing ZOS but at the same time the performance issues are quite noticeable. Yes, it's an older game and that always seems to be an excuse for poor performance as code increases over the years and bugs pop up, but if players can't play happily they won't stay indefinitely. It seems to be a problem inherent in computing - it's actually a very big problem for all of us in every aspect of life.

hafgood · October 2020

Think of it in terms of a car. This game has a seven year old engine that has been used and abused every day since it was developed. A new game will have a newer engine.

A car with a 7 year engine that has been used every day will not perform as well as a brand new engine.

Zos do their best to keep the 7 year old engine tuned up but its just not going to perform as well will experience lag and slowdowns, the engine was built using older technology and it shows.

The only true way that this game could dramatically improve is with a brand new engine. But taking the engine out and replacing it is a risky and expensive business. At some point they will have to consider doing so, but they need to develop a new engine first.

We know they are developing a new engine, sure it may be for another game but they may be able to retrofit it to eso once they know how good and stable it is.

Until we get the new engine all we can get is the tinkering around the edges that Zos are doing in an attempt to get more oomph out of an old and tired engine

Mythreindeer · October 2020

I understand the seemingly appropriate use of the automobile engine analogy but I think it’s an incomplete comparison. Whereas the engine has actual mechanical parts that wear through use, the game has only code that doesn’t “wear” through use. Why adding code causes eventual failures seems to me to be an issue with those who input the code. Is it not possible for add-on code to be able to work with existing code if done “properly?” Or is this the “ghost in the machine” problem that no one seems to understand”

As someone who grew up in the non computer age, I find it infinitely frustrating when software seems to just quit working. It’s *** poor product development. That we just accept it as inevitable is sad.