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Enough with Overland content that's difficult to do alone/small group
spartaxoxo
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The people who claim to want this do not spend any amount of appreciable time at this content. They are in trials and dungeons farming things that are worth farming and that they can't just buy. They are not using it. They want this stuff in theory alone. They do not want to spend real and consistent time with it.
Meanwhile people who want to play Overland content can go literally hours and sometimes days before they can clear this content. The rewards for that content become scarce and overpriced.
It's a nightmare. Please stop with content like Harrowstorms and Dragons, instead scale the content difficulty based on who is using it .
Edited by spartaxoxo on October 5, 2020 8:28AM Meanwhile people who want to play Overland content can go literally hours and sometimes days before they can clear this content. The rewards for that content become scarce and overpriced.
It's a nightmare. Please stop with content like Harrowstorms and Dragons, instead scale the content difficulty based on who is using it .
29
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Everstorm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Still active on the front page:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/548135/harrowstorms-are-an-unfun-step-backwards-a-couple-months-later/p1
You are not alone.Edited by Everstorm on October 5, 2020 8:41AM8 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Still active on the front page:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/548135/harrowstorms-are-an-unfun-step-backwards-a-couple-months-later/p1
I don't just want Harrowstorms nerfed. I want dragons nerfed and for all future content to never again be like dragons and storms.
I literally can't form Northern Elysweyr dragons whenever I want.Edited by spartaxoxo on October 5, 2020 8:42AM10 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »The people who claim to want this do not spend any amount of appreciable time at this content. They are in trials and dungeons farming things that are worth farming and that they can't just buy. They are not using it. They want this stuff in theory alone. They do not want to spend real and consistent time with it.
Meanwhile people who want to play Overland content can go literally hours and sometimes days before they can clear this content. The rewards for that content become scarce and overpriced.
It's a nightmare. Please stop with content like Harrowstorms and Dragons, instead scale the content difficulty based on who is using it .
Small groups can manage Dragons (I've killed them with 3 people before). Harrow Storms I haven't done in small groups yet, though It's probably possible if they focus on stopping those ghost things while they take down the pikes so they don't get swarmed with bosses. But I do understand your point that players who enjoy this kind of content often move on to other activities and leave players to fend for themselves or struggle to find allies.
It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to add some tools to assist players in forming groups for these kind of activities once the content ages and becomes less popular with the masses. Though especially in respect to Harrow Storms, just making them more rewarding would probably go a long way to making them more popular.Edited by Jeremy on October 5, 2020 8:47AM4 -
Olen_Mikko✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dude, 99 % of Overland is ridiculously easy. Not much of a challenge even for my level 5 magblade, so they shouldn't nerf the only part that's even remotely challengingNB enthusiastic:- Woodhippie stamblade - DW hard-hitter / PvE
- Know-it-all elf Magblade - Healer / PvE & PvP
- Hate-them-all elf Magblade - Destrostaff AoE monster / PvE
- Cyrodiil-Refugee stamblade - Stamina Tank / PvE
Go dominion or go home
Nightblade-Hipster. I played Nightblade before it was cool - from 1.5 onwards.53 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭alenae1b14_ESO wrote: »Is this a joke?
No. This content legit gets abandoned. People who want real difficulty don't do Overland and people who want casual content don't do trials. Instead of trying to force the issue, which is obviously not working, they should leave casual content to casuals. So that all of it has a healthy population. Instead of a ghost zone and little hope of farming
Edited by spartaxoxo on October 5, 2020 8:47AM27 -
dazee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I've not had an issue doing harrowstorms, as long as you have a few competent people there it's not hard. However I do think it will become near abandoned once the next chapter comes out, at which point it would certainly need to be adjusted to be easier to solo.
I like how harrowstorms arent faceroll easy for one person to do, but as soon as there's just not enough people they're gonna need to change.Playing your character the way your character should play is all that matters. Play as well as you can but never betray the character. Doing so would make playing an mmoRPG pointless.4 -
xTAKISx✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »alenae1b14_ESO wrote: »Is this a joke?
No. This content legit gets abandoned. People who want real difficulty don't do Overland and people who want casual content don't do trials. Instead of trying to force the issue, which is obviously not working, they should leave casual content to casuals. So that all of it has a healthy population. Instead of a ghost zone and little hope of farming
I don't think their intent is to punish casuals, ESO is the most casual mmo out there today. Zone bosses have to be hard so that people have to group up, hence M...M...O. If not this would be just another Elder Scrolls RPG.
*Just to add, WoW put story quests into raids this expac, BFA, that's punishing casuals.Edited by xTAKISx on October 5, 2020 8:51AM10 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »alenae1b14_ESO wrote: »Is this a joke?
No. This content legit gets abandoned. People who want real difficulty don't do Overland and people who want casual content don't do trials. Instead of trying to force the issue, which is obviously not working, they should leave casual content to casuals. So that all of it has a healthy population. Instead of a ghost zone and little hope of farming
I don't think their intent is to punish casuals, ESO is the most casual mmo out there today. Zone bosses have to be hard so that people have to group up, hence M...M...O. If not this would be just another Elder Scrolls RPG.
Except casual players do have to group up for geysers and do have to group for the other worldbosses. This game got by for years on content of that difficulty in the overland zone, and it didn't stop people from raiding, pvp, etc in groups.
An MMO doesn't mean that there is no soloable content. I can't name any other that I have played that had zero soloable content. So it's genre isn't a reason for it to be that way.Edited by spartaxoxo on October 5, 2020 8:52AM6 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I've not had an issue doing harrowstorms, as long as you have a few competent people there it's not hard. However I do think it will become near abandoned once the next chapter comes out, at which point it would certainly need to be adjusted to be easier to solo.
I like how harrowstorms arent faceroll easy for one person to do, but as soon as there's just not enough people they're gonna need to change.
I liked it too, until I saw what happened to Northern Elysweyr when new content came out. And what a total ghost zone it is now that Greymoor is out. Even calling out dragons and getting them to low health alone did not get me any help. Only casuals were there, and they didn't want to help. It's too hard for them. Nobody less casual was in the zone. They are off doing other things. Things worth that kind of commitment and overland content will never be it.
And since doing it solo is not a walk in the park, one mistake can easy reset all your progress when you're alone. That's fine when you wouldn't be alone. A lot less fine when content has been abandoned and the only people in the area are people who don't feel like they can be of help.Edited by spartaxoxo on October 5, 2020 8:56AM12 -
xTAKISx✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »alenae1b14_ESO wrote: »Is this a joke?
No. This content legit gets abandoned. People who want real difficulty don't do Overland and people who want casual content don't do trials. Instead of trying to force the issue, which is obviously not working, they should leave casual content to casuals. So that all of it has a healthy population. Instead of a ghost zone and little hope of farming
I don't think their intent is to punish casuals, ESO is the most casual mmo out there today. Zone bosses have to be hard so that people have to group up, hence M...M...O. If not this would be just another Elder Scrolls RPG.
Except casual players do have to group up for geysers and do have to group for the other worldbosses.
An MMO doesn't mean that there is no soloable content.
Didn't say that, this game is the most casual friendly MMO on the market.
If you are having trouble with your gear of mechanics there are plenty of people in this community who are willing to help and give advice. To moan and complain about difficulty in an MMo is not constructive or fair to the other 98% who are saying the game is too easy.7 -
Everstorm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »Still active on the front page:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/548135/harrowstorms-are-an-unfun-step-backwards-a-couple-months-later/p1
I don't just want Harrowstorms nerfed. I want dragons nerfed and for all future content to never again be like dragons and storms.
I literally can't form Northern Elysweyr dragons whenever I want.
On one hand I agree with you. On the other hand: dragons should be mighty and powerful. But, neither Harrowstorms nor Dragons are necessary for any sort of progress.3 -
Xuhora✭✭✭✭✭soooo you want to be able to faceroll dragons and harrowstorms just like the good ol' Dolmens? why would you want that?15 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭soooo you want to be able to faceroll dragons and harrowstorms just like the good ol' Dolmens? why would you want that?
Because older content gets abandoned when newer content comes out. And then you have content that's practically unplayable. I can just about manage a dragon under these conditions, will NOT be able to manage the harrowstorms when it happens to them.8 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »alenae1b14_ESO wrote: »Is this a joke?
No. This content legit gets abandoned. People who want real difficulty don't do Overland and people who want casual content don't do trials. Instead of trying to force the issue, which is obviously not working, they should leave casual content to casuals. So that all of it has a healthy population. Instead of a ghost zone and little hope of farming
I don't think their intent is to punish casuals, ESO is the most casual mmo out there today. Zone bosses have to be hard so that people have to group up, hence M...M...O. If not this would be just another Elder Scrolls RPG.
Except casual players do have to group up for geysers and do have to group for the other worldbosses. This game got by for years on content of that difficulty in the overland zone, and it didn't stop people from raiding, pvp, etc in groups.
An MMO doesn't mean that there is no soloable content. I can't name any other that I have played that had zero soloable content. So it's genre isn't a reason for it to be that way.
But this game has tons of soloable content. 99% of the overland is quite easy to solo (I would argue too easy to solo) to the point there is really no reason to group up for any of it. Most of the monsters would be dead before the other group members could even hit it with anything. So I don't think one can criticize this game for having a lack of solo content.
Dragons, Harrow Storms and some World Bosses are really the only exception to this. And it's really not such a bad thing to have at least a few things on the overland where a group is desired in an MMO, is it?Edited by Jeremy on October 5, 2020 8:59AM16 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »alenae1b14_ESO wrote: »Is this a joke?
No. This content legit gets abandoned. People who want real difficulty don't do Overland and people who want casual content don't do trials. Instead of trying to force the issue, which is obviously not working, they should leave casual content to casuals. So that all of it has a healthy population. Instead of a ghost zone and little hope of farming
I don't think their intent is to punish casuals, ESO is the most casual mmo out there today. Zone bosses have to be hard so that people have to group up, hence M...M...O. If not this would be just another Elder Scrolls RPG.
Except casual players do have to group up for geysers and do have to group for the other worldbosses. This game got by for years on content of that difficulty in the overland zone, and it didn't stop people from raiding, pvp, etc in groups.
An MMO doesn't mean that there is no soloable content. I can't name any other that I have played that had zero soloable content. So it's genre isn't a reason for it to be that way.
But this game has tons of soloable content. 99% of the overland is quite easy to solo (I would argue too easy to solo) to the point there is really no reason to group up for any of it. Most of the monsters would be dead before the other group members could even hit it with anything. So I don't think one can criticize this game for having a lack of solo content.
Dragons, Harrow Storms and some World Bosses are really the only exception. And it's not such a bad thing to have at least a few things on the overland where a group is desired in an MMO, no?
Yes. It is because then the content doesn't get done after the first months. Abandoned content doesn't help anyone.
Also most of that content you speak of is old as dirtEdited by spartaxoxo on October 5, 2020 9:00AM4 -
xTAKISx✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »I've not had an issue doing harrowstorms, as long as you have a few competent people there it's not hard. However I do think it will become near abandoned once the next chapter comes out, at which point it would certainly need to be adjusted to be easier to solo.
I like how harrowstorms arent faceroll easy for one person to do, but as soon as there's just not enough people they're gonna need to change.
I liked it too, until I saw what happened to Northern Elysweyr when new content came out. And what a total ghost zone it is now that Greymoor is out. Even calling out dragons and getting them to low health alone did not get me any help. Only casuals were there, and they didn't want to help. It's too hard for them. Nobody less casual was in the zone. They are off doing other things. Things worth that kind of commitment and overland content will never be it.
And since doing it solo is not a walk in the park, one mistake can easy reset all your progress when you're alone. That's fine when you wouldn't be alone. A lot less fine when content has been abandoned and the only people in the area are people who don't feel like they can be of help.
I think the answer to that is that ZoS revisits these zones or offer extra incentive loot so people are interested in doing the content again. Nerfing should not be a knee jerk reaction.8 -
dazee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭A reminder that MMO in no way shape or form means forced grouping.Playing your character the way your character should play is all that matters. Play as well as you can but never betray the character. Doing so would make playing an mmoRPG pointless.11 -
Luke_Flamesword✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Difficult worldbosses or things like dragons are rare overland ocassions to group with random people - it often makes people to ask for help in zone chat which is great for community. I love this when I'm just doing random stuff and someone ask for help with something, so I can change my plans and go to do something non-routine or even been shared with bonus daily quest. Also when I go to freaking dragon or difficult boss, I really hope that there will be some players to help already and this thinking makes me to feel that I'm part of living world, not only another solo player in world full of another solo players. It's sometimes unconvenient but also it's necessary for real MMO experience
PC | EU | DC |Stam Dk Breton7 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »I've not had an issue doing harrowstorms, as long as you have a few competent people there it's not hard. However I do think it will become near abandoned once the next chapter comes out, at which point it would certainly need to be adjusted to be easier to solo.
I like how harrowstorms arent faceroll easy for one person to do, but as soon as there's just not enough people they're gonna need to change.
I liked it too, until I saw what happened to Northern Elysweyr when new content came out. And what a total ghost zone it is now that Greymoor is out. Even calling out dragons and getting them to low health alone did not get me any help. Only casuals were there, and they didn't want to help. It's too hard for them. Nobody less casual was in the zone. They are off doing other things. Things worth that kind of commitment and overland content will never be it.
And since doing it solo is not a walk in the park, one mistake can easy reset all your progress when you're alone. That's fine when you wouldn't be alone. A lot less fine when content has been abandoned and the only people in the area are people who don't feel like they can be of help.
I think the answer to that is that ZoS revisits these zones or offer extra incentive loot so people are interested in doing the content again. Nerfing should not be a knee jerk reaction.
They have done that. Still nobody. Also are they supposed to just keep putting more and more loot just to get people to farm the same content day in and day out like bots? Instead of encouraging people to do diverse activites?
I don't agree. I think they need to understand who is the primary target of a piece of content, and make that content enjoyable for that type of customer.
When I am looking for a challenge, I do not go to overland. I am currently progging vKA, and I know I am not alone in that. Overland content is primarily consumed by casuals. Those people are not capable of doing this content in small groups so they don't do it. And less casual players abandon it quickly.
Why should content be designed to be abandoned?Edited by spartaxoxo on October 5, 2020 9:10AM8 -
Bucky_13✭✭✭✭✭
✭soooo you want to be able to faceroll dragons and harrowstorms just like the good ol' Dolmens? why would you want that?
Because finding a group to do them is a pain in the rear?
I do think the way dolmens work is pretty good, even if they are a bit too easy. It can be soloed, but when more people join in, the difficulty increases. Having geysers, dragons and harrowstorms scale in a similar manner, but harder overall, would make things more fun for a lot of players. I'd say a dolmen is on par with a public dungeon boss for a solo player, lets make the other ones more on the level of a vMA boss or stage.9 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »alenae1b14_ESO wrote: »Is this a joke?
No. This content legit gets abandoned. People who want real difficulty don't do Overland and people who want casual content don't do trials. Instead of trying to force the issue, which is obviously not working, they should leave casual content to casuals. So that all of it has a healthy population. Instead of a ghost zone and little hope of farming
I don't think their intent is to punish casuals, ESO is the most casual mmo out there today. Zone bosses have to be hard so that people have to group up, hence M...M...O. If not this would be just another Elder Scrolls RPG.
Except casual players do have to group up for geysers and do have to group for the other worldbosses. This game got by for years on content of that difficulty in the overland zone, and it didn't stop people from raiding, pvp, etc in groups.
An MMO doesn't mean that there is no soloable content. I can't name any other that I have played that had zero soloable content. So it's genre isn't a reason for it to be that way.
But this game has tons of soloable content. 99% of the overland is quite easy to solo (I would argue too easy to solo) to the point there is really no reason to group up for any of it. Most of the monsters would be dead before the other group members could even hit it with anything. So I don't think one can criticize this game for having a lack of solo content.
Dragons, Harrow Storms and some World Bosses are really the only exception. And it's not such a bad thing to have at least a few things on the overland where a group is desired in an MMO, no?
Yes. It is because then the content doesn't get done after the first months. Abandoned content doesn't help anyone.
Well, as I said in my initial post - I wouldn't oppose adding some tools to help players form groups for these activities. That's a better solution I think then to get rid of the tiny amount of group activities that are still left in the overland on this game.
In the meantime you might want to try asking in zone or guild chat. It's not unusual for people to come help.Edited by Jeremy on October 5, 2020 9:06AM1 -
dazee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭massive multiplayer online roll playing game
Oh do tell. So the fact that it's multiplayer means you MUST be grouped, and soloing somehow makes it less fun?
How very fascinating, especially since ESO only ever has had a niche in large part BECAUSE it doesn't force grouping to get decent gear and rewards.
You want to play a game where the best gear is only from group content, do us a favor and stop playing ESO and play something else. PLENTY of other games do far superior group content, more challenging but more fair, better design, less bugs.
[snip]
If MMOs were supposed to FORCE grouping, it would be MFMO, Massively Forced Multiplayer Online.
[Edited to remove Bashing]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on October 5, 2020 1:45PMPlaying your character the way your character should play is all that matters. Play as well as you can but never betray the character. Doing so would make playing an mmoRPG pointless.12 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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Agree, now word bosses, dragons and similar is optional content who is not part of an story and is intended as an challenge.It's good to have a sprinkling of difficulty on the overland scene.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.2 -
xTAKISx✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »I've not had an issue doing harrowstorms, as long as you have a few competent people there it's not hard. However I do think it will become near abandoned once the next chapter comes out, at which point it would certainly need to be adjusted to be easier to solo.
I like how harrowstorms arent faceroll easy for one person to do, but as soon as there's just not enough people they're gonna need to change.
I liked it too, until I saw what happened to Northern Elysweyr when new content came out. And what a total ghost zone it is now that Greymoor is out. Even calling out dragons and getting them to low health alone did not get me any help. Only casuals were there, and they didn't want to help. It's too hard for them. Nobody less casual was in the zone. They are off doing other things. Things worth that kind of commitment and overland content will never be it.
And since doing it solo is not a walk in the park, one mistake can easy reset all your progress when you're alone. That's fine when you wouldn't be alone. A lot less fine when content has been abandoned and the only people in the area are people who don't feel like they can be of help.
I think the answer to that is that ZoS revisits these zones or offer extra incentive loot so people are interested in doing the content again. Nerfing should not be a knee jerk reaction.
They have done that. Still nobody. Also are they supposed to just keep putting more and more loot just to get people to farm the same content day in and day out like bots? Instead of encouraging people to do diverse activites?
I don't agree. I think they need to understand who is the primary target of a piece of content, and make that content enjoyable for that type of customer.
When I am looking for a challenge, I do not go to overland. I am currently progging vKA, and I know I am not alone in that. Overland content is primarily consumed by casuals. Those people are not capable of doing this content in small groups so they don't do it. And less casual players abandon it quickly.
Why should content be designed to be abandoned
The type of customer or primary target they want is one that plays MMO's and will eventually sub. People complaining about how hard content is to solo in an MMO is near or at the bottom of a companies list. they need people to do content together to feed the game. My advice would be to join a guild and ask for help, if you are in one then /gquit and find one that will help you with the content you are having trouble with like the majority do.4 -
dazee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The type of customer or primary target they want is one that plays MMO's and will eventually sub. People complaining about how hard content is to solo in an MMO is near or at the bottom of a companies list. they need people to do content together to feed the game. My advice would be to join a guild and ask for help, if you are in one then /gquit and find one that will help you with the content you are having trouble with like the majority do.
You realize that catering to the classic MMO fan is not what ESO needs to do to succeed right? That's precisely what will make people quit and play the many other games which have always done that part far better- and with actual bug fixes.Playing your character the way your character should play is all that matters. Play as well as you can but never betray the character. Doing so would make playing an mmoRPG pointless.9 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »alenae1b14_ESO wrote: »Is this a joke?
No. This content legit gets abandoned. People who want real difficulty don't do Overland and people who want casual content don't do trials. Instead of trying to force the issue, which is obviously not working, they should leave casual content to casuals. So that all of it has a healthy population. Instead of a ghost zone and little hope of farming
I don't think their intent is to punish casuals, ESO is the most casual mmo out there today. Zone bosses have to be hard so that people have to group up, hence M...M...O. If not this would be just another Elder Scrolls RPG.
Except casual players do have to group up for geysers and do have to group for the other worldbosses. This game got by for years on content of that difficulty in the overland zone, and it didn't stop people from raiding, pvp, etc in groups.
An MMO doesn't mean that there is no soloable content. I can't name any other that I have played that had zero soloable content. So it's genre isn't a reason for it to be that way.
But this game has tons of soloable content. 99% of the overland is quite easy to solo (I would argue too easy to solo) to the point there is really no reason to group up for any of it. Most of the monsters would be dead before the other group members could even hit it with anything. So I don't think one can criticize this game for having a lack of solo content.
Dragons, Harrow Storms and some World Bosses are really the only exception. And it's not such a bad thing to have at least a few things on the overland where a group is desired in an MMO, no?
Yes. It is because then the content doesn't get done after the first months. Abandoned content doesn't help anyone.
Well, as I said in my initial post - I wouldn't oppose adding some tools to help players form groups for these activities. That's a better solution I think then to get rid of the tiny amount of group activities that are still left in the overland on this game.
In the meantime you might want to try asking in zone or guild chat. It's not unusual for people to come help.
They will help for maybe as long as it takes to do a daily. They will not help you farm. It is unusual for people to help, especially during off hours. That's what the phrase abandoned means.
Nobody.is.doing.this.content8
