Horse training is a silly punishment system that needs a rehaul badly

Xilc · October 2020

Imagine being brand new to this game, and realizing you have to spend 60 consecutive days without fail logging into the game just to get one of your characters to have the maximum riding speed. God forbid you don't like the character that you picked after playing it for a week or two, because then you'll have to start over from scratch on one of the other five or six classes there are in the game. I really didn't like playing Dragon Knight so I decided to reroll and choose a Templar . the 60 days of dedication I devoted to the game was wasted and I had to restart again training my horse just to get fast speed. The alternative is you can pay real life money get riding lessons, which is just absurd. This is like literally the only game you have to pay real life money to get a decently fast mount
That's just absurd, and honestly, it needs to be rehauled because it's unacceptable.

stefj68 · October 2020

still think that should be account wise 180 days to max it lol

Xilc · October 2020

stefj68 wrote: »

still think that should be account wise 180 days to max it lol

Why? You expect a new player to play the game for 6 months straight, just to have a good solid horse? That's just nuts. It's a horse. Skyrim you didn't have to play for 6-10 months just to have a great horse. it's a silly punishment system.

Anentet · October 2020

I do agree it should be account wide, or at the very least after you unlock one of them to 60, your next character only has to do say 30, then the next even less, then eventually not at all. Anything could be better than having to make it max like this on all alts. Most games its a specific character level and/or acct wide. I doubt it will change though.

Appo · October 2020

Agree, should be 30 AND account wide, its just silly

Ragged_Claw · October 2020

I wonder if it would be better if they went back to when it was the horse that you levelled not the char. I get that there are now tons of mounts, but that way once you had a fast horse it would be available for all characters whilst you levelled up the others.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · October 2020

This predates the Crown Store it’s literally a day one feature it’s slows things down no originally you couldn’t max all three you had sixty times to feed and that was that you could split that one or dump them all in one but that’s how it was.

So the six months to max is way out of line of what the days to max horse was they should reduce the feed cool down.

7 hours would be where the cool down would be had it been adjusted for the fact that you can max all three.

12 hours would also be fair as the new horses with all three maxed or more powerful and useful.

Iselin · October 2020

Ragged_Claw wrote: »

I wonder if it would be better if they went back to when it was the horse that you levelled not the char. I get that there are now tons of mounts, but that way once you had a fast horse it would be available for all characters whilst you levelled up the others.

Honestly I liked that original system much better. It was alt-friendly but definitely not crown store friendly

Zodiarkslayer · October 2020

Xilc wrote: »

stefj68 wrote: »

still think that should be account wise 180 days to max it lol

Why? You expect a new player to play the game for 6 months straight, just to have a good solid horse? That's just nuts. It's a horse. Skyrim you didn't have to play for 6-10 months just to have a great horse. it's a silly punishment system.

Skyrim had horses? Really? 😆

Joking aside, the system is not perfect, but it makes sense.
The alternative would be levelling the horses. But then what? The same levelling again on a new mount? Every time? I suspect it would be even more aggravating. Even if it would be account wide.
And everybody who has a real job, can NOT log in every 7 or 12 hours to play a game. That's just not happening. You would loose that job pretty quickly and you can count that the legal department will look into sueing you.
I see no viable alternative to the current system, even if it is mighty inconvenient.

KingofAnnwn · October 2020

Honestly, personally I'd be happy to have the option of buying the levels in the clown store, not the books but actually getting the top tier for each part. Similar to the skyshard option for alts. But I do agree with the notion that it should be account wide and not character.

SickleCider · October 2020

This is, to my knowledge, the biggest scam in the game. With a price point of 1k crowns per riding book, you can see what the intent is. The proof is in the pudding.

redspecter23 · October 2020

Here are a few things I would do to help with horse training that unfortunately can't be done due to monetary systems already in place.

"Squish" the mount training down to 20/20/20. You get the same overall benefit, but in fewer upgrades. Max speed in 2 weeks instead of 2 months.

Add a new food/drink recipe to the game that temporarily sets your mount speed and stamina to maximum. Have it use rare ingredients so it would be pricey to use. Allow it to stack with other food/drink like xp drinks. Use mats such that the price per use would be around 8,000 - 10,000 gold for 2 hours.

Allow players to exchange writ vouchers for riding lessons, similar to the ones in the crown store but with a 20 hour timer, mimicking research scrolls. In this way you can level twice as fast, but at a hefty daily cost per toon.

Machete · October 2020

The very system is way, way overdue. Honestly, most of this game (titles, mount stats,) should be account wide. It punishes players for making alts or filling in rolls in PvE or PvP. Though, gotta give Zenimax credit, the new Stickerbook system with transmutes is an amazing start to account wide things.

Now just make mount speed account wide and titles account wide and we'll be talking

Thechuckage · October 2020

A large part of the problem is how slow the base speed of the mounts is. Literally faster to jog on foot rather than ride a non-upgraded mount. That is just stupid.

driosketch · October 2020

As someone who has maxed 20+ characters, it's never been that big a deal, and you're forcing an endgame perspective onto a new player. It will take most of those players more than a few weeks to build that first character anyways, stuff like hitting 160CP. That said...!

There are a couple changes to the game that makes this a pain point even for new players. The first is that they removed infinite sprint from mounts. So in addition to speed, additional time must now be added to leveling stamina. Second was moving Rapid Maneuvers to Alliance 5. So before where a low lever character could still cast rapids and sprint forever faster than running, even if they were still slower than a veteran player, that is no longer possible in the first month of training.

SilverBride · October 2020

It's the mount that's training, not the rider. So all the training done by any of your characters to the same mount should apply to that mount. So if Player A trains speed, and Players B and C also train speed, all on the same mount on the same day, shouldn't the mount gain 3 speed that day?

I use the same mount on all my characters. How is it possible that the stats aren't the same for all of them, since it's the same exact mount?

alanmatillab16_ESO · October 2020

Xilc wrote: »

stefj68 wrote: »

still think that should be account wise 180 days to max it lol

Why? You expect a new player to play the game for 6 months straight, just to have a good solid horse? That's just nuts. It's a horse. Skyrim you didn't have to play for 6-10 months just to have a great horse. it's a silly punishment system.

You dont need to have all the stats at maximum to be a "good solid" mount unless you are one of those "if its not BiS then its trash" kind of players.

Shadowspawn42 · October 2020

Xilc wrote: »

stefj68 wrote: »

still think that should be account wise 180 days to max it lol

Why? You expect a new player to play the game for 6 months straight, just to have a good solid horse? That's just nuts. It's a horse. Skyrim you didn't have to play for 6-10 months just to have a great horse. it's a silly punishment system.

Though I don’t disagree that mount training is annoying, the horses in Skyrim were terrible. They were impossible to steer and incredibly slow (and you couldn’t change that).

Iluvrien · October 2020

I suggested a changed system ages ago that allowed you to train multiple times a day, with increased gold costs (like the wayshrine system).

Or to, through active participation in some sort of riding challenge, gain training bonuses/increases.

I don’t mind how long the base incarnation of the system takes. I do mind how thoughtless it is.

BomblePants · October 2020

I’ve been playing five years.... recently started to level a new toon.... it dawned on me as a started levelling TG, DB, FG I started to become weary..... mount training finished me off...... officially parked her...

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO · October 2020

After playing the game for years, even my level 3 bank mules have full riding skills 60/60/60, but I feel sorry for the new players who are coming into the game, facing a 6 month upgrade path or a terribly expensive crown store purchase to train their riding skill to max. It is, indeed, a silly and outdated system that is in desperate need of an overhaul, not because it takes too long for all those impatient youngsters who want everything at once for free, but because it is a system that actively punishes new players by withholding an essential skill from them for far too long, and makes them feel unwelcome.

I don't mind crafting being a grind. New players can ask for help with that. Players who don't plan on staying with the game for a year can just ignore those skill lines and not be any less competitive because of it. Crafting is not an essential skill. Riding speed is.

The game is intimidatingly large and complex for most new players. This is yet another reason for them to be overwhelmed.

I'm not sure the crown store riding lessons are even that popular. They are so expensive that you need to be a "whale" to even consider that option.

Tandor · October 2020

Versispellis wrote: »

This is, to my knowledge, the biggest scam in the game. With a price point of 1k crowns per riding book, you can see what the intent is. The proof is in the pudding.

That's purely because a lot of people don't like paying subscriptions, so charging points for the cash shop have to be put in the game otherwise there's insufficient revenue. I'd personally be happy for the game to revert to subscription-only and for the cash shop to go along with the charging points associated with it, but we know that isn't going to happen.

linuxlady · October 2020

much in this 'game' is tedious AND they keep changing the rules reminds me of a quest in cold harbor

TequilaFire · October 2020

It is really a head scratcher to realize I can level an new character to max CP810 faster than I can level a mount to max.

Kiralyn2000 · October 2020

Xilc wrote: »

Imagine being brand new to this game, and realizing you have to spend 60 consecutive days without fail logging into the game just to get one of your characters to have the maximum riding speed. God forbid you don't like the character that you picked after playing it for a week or two, because then you'll have to start over from scratch on one of the other five or six classes there are in the game.

Hmm. Perhaps it's because I started on the super-casual-friendly WoW - where in the old days you didn't even get a mount until level 40, and you didn't get the full-speed mount until the 60 level cap (and it cost a huge-amount-at-the-time 1000g) - but the mount training system in this game never really bugged me.

SilverBride wrote: »

It's the mount that's training, not the rider. So all the training done by any of your characters to the same mount should apply to that mount. So if Player A trains speed, and Players B and C also train speed, all on the same mount on the same day, shouldn't the mount gain 3 speed that day?

I use the same mount on all my characters. How is it possible that the stats aren't the same for all of them, since it's the same exact mount?

Because, while that system would be great for someone who uses just one mount, it would be fantastically terrible for anyone with a collection of mounts. Also, it's a game mechanic, not an Accurate Simulation Of Horse Training™.
(and even if it was an accurate simulation, why do you assume that each of your characters is actually using the same mount, as opposed to another copy of that type of mount? i.e, just because my Nord and my Dunmer both ride a black horse, doesn't mean that it's the same black horse.)

Xilc wrote: »

Why? You expect a new player to play the game for 6 months straight, just to have a good solid horse? That's just nuts. It's a horse. Skyrim you didn't have to play for 6-10 months just to have a great horse. it's a silly punishment system.

Why the hell would I ever use a horse in Skyrim? I'd have to get off it again every 5 feet to pick another plant.

(and it's not a "punishment system". It's a typical/standard MMO time sink - MMO's, both subscription and f2p, have always had time sinks of various kinds to make it so people keep playing, and keeping them from using up all the content in a week. Reputation grinds, farming for dungeon/trial/raid drops, dailies... if you consider that "punishment", then perhaps this genre isn't the best fit for you.)

Nairinhe · October 2020

I'm rather OK with the current system except the mentioned above situation where you want to reroll. But that's because I have one fully-leveled main and not in a hurry to level other characters, so I would welcome a rework of the system anyway.

Kiralyn2000 · October 2020

Tandor wrote: »

Versispellis wrote: »

This is, to my knowledge, the biggest scam in the game. With a price point of 1k crowns per riding book, you can see what the intent is. The proof is in the pudding.

That's purely because a lot of people don't like paying subscriptions, so charging points for the cash shop have to be put in the game otherwise there's insufficient revenue. I'd personally be happy for the game to revert to subscription-only and for the cash shop to go along with the charging points associated with it, but we know that isn't going to happen.

And considering that all the subscription MMOs these days still have cash shops (and still have time sinks), it likely wouldn't make any difference if the game did go back to sub.

esotoon · October 2020

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

It's a typical/standard MMO time sink - MMO's, both subscription and f2p, have always had time sinks of various kinds to make it so people keep playing, and keeping them from using up all the content in a week. Reputation grinds, farming for dungeon/trial/raid drops, dailies... if you consider that "punishment", then perhaps this genre isn't the best fit for you.)

I can understand it at the start of the game as their weren't other time sinks in the game. But 6 years on, their are now plenty of other, much more rewarding time sinks to keep people playing daily, as well as the daily reward system to keep people logging in even if they don't actually play that day. So personally, I think as far as time sinks go, this one could be removed without any negative effect from that point of view. But it won't, because although it is now a redundant time sink, it's new role is solely to encourage the sale of riding lessons.

SilverBride · October 2020

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

It's the mount that's training, not the rider. So all the training done by any of your characters to the same mount should apply to that mount. So if Player A trains speed, and Players B and C also train speed, all on the same mount on the same day, shouldn't the mount gain 3 speed that day?

I use the same mount on all my characters. How is it possible that the stats aren't the same for all of them, since it's the same exact mount?

Because, while that system would be great for someone who uses just one mount, it would be fantastically terrible for anyone with a collection of mounts.

It could work if you used the fast mount to get around until your other mounts were trained. So you would use the fully trained Mount A, but go to the stable every day and switch mounts, train the next one you'd like to use, then back on Mount A. When the next was fully trained you could start using it.

And if all your characters could put a point into training every day, and you had a lot of alts, it wouldn't take long to train up any of your mounts.

LanteanPegasus · October 2020

Xilc wrote: »

Imagine being brand new to this game, and realizing you have to spend 60 consecutive days without fail logging into the game just to get one of your characters to have the maximum riding speed.

Don't have to use my imagination - when I started playing I was brand new to the game.
When I realized it would take me 60 days to level each riding ability I decided how to prioritize them, and got on it. Same as "realizing" (*gasp*) it would take me a looong time to research all the equipment traits. Or maxing out all my skills. Or saving up the gold to buy a big, cool house. Or not getting anything and everything in two weeks.
I just never had a problem with that, it was part of building up my character, and of playing the game.
When I started a second char after months (and a third after years), yes, the slow mount was felt very much. But hey, it were new characters, that's part of the look and feel.
It is also one of the things that gives a new character a sense of progress.

I guess it is a nuisance for maxed out players, who level up their umpteenth Alt from 1 to CP 160 in three days running Dolmen circles, using all XP buffs they can get,then farming Skyshards, Lorebooks, whatnot for three more days straight. But that has nothing to do with overwhelming or driving away new players.

God forbid you don't like the character that you picked after playing it for a week or two, because then you'll have to start over from scratch on one of the other five or six classes there are in the game. I really didn't like playing Dragon Knight so I decided to reroll and choose a Templar . the 60 days of dedication I devoted to the game was wasted and I had to restart again training my horse just to get fast speed.

If you don't like playing your character after a week or two you can hardly have wasted 60 days, no?
But if the idea of wanting to play another class later, and having to restart with the mount, bothers you, maybe you should make one char of each class, park them, and level their mounts. So if you ever want to try out a class it will have a maxed out steed.

The alternative is you can pay real life money get riding lessons, which is just absurd. This is like literally the only game you have to pay real life money to get a decently fast mount.

No. You don't have to pay any real money to max out your mount. And you definitely don't have to pay real money to get a "decently fast" one. Especially for a new player the improvement in speed will be felt clearly after a week or two. Even with a completely untrained mount you immediately get faster, because you can only sprint for so long, but after that you can mount and "sprint" again (or the other way around).

I once played Neverwinter Online, and I had to play for about a year or so to get one of the fast mounts. (I could have grinded it in half the time, I guess, but I have a life.) Or I could've bought it for real money. And there was no improvement in between. So I think ESO is far from a silly punishment system.

HappyTheCamper · October 2020

I have 7 characters I love, and I always dread starting a new one.

Mount training is the only reason I hate making new characters. It’s a regressive system.