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How did Cyrodiil get this bad?
HalvarIronfist
✭✭✭✭
This is no other way to vocalize my disappointment with Cyrodiil's performance/latency state besides saying:
How is this acceptable? Who, or why was it allowed to degrade this much? During the events I personally notice higher stability/performance in Cyro or the Imperial city than I do otherwise.
For the entirety of the Imperial City Event, I played without a crash, usually with 60-120 ping depending on group sizes that rolled through. A smooth and enjoyable experience. This also applies with midyear mayhem in cyrodiil.
Now? If I go into Grey Host, I sit with 300-400 ping, can't even 1v1. To the point where multiple times I've had extended (5-10 minute) stretches of abilities failing to go off to the point where both parties stopped fighting, and starting to debate whats wrong with these servers in /whisper
IMO; there are two pieces of the puzzle that need to be taken care of to extinguish a lot of the lag
1. Remove all the wanton-ly placed cast timers. Seriously, this disrupts a smooth combat system, and adds more calculations to your already "Overloaded" server.
2. Seriously, invest in more servers/do whatever it is that gives pvp performance priority during events.
The state of Cyrodiil right now is downright despicable.
How is this acceptable? Who, or why was it allowed to degrade this much? During the events I personally notice higher stability/performance in Cyro or the Imperial city than I do otherwise.
For the entirety of the Imperial City Event, I played without a crash, usually with 60-120 ping depending on group sizes that rolled through. A smooth and enjoyable experience. This also applies with midyear mayhem in cyrodiil.
Now? If I go into Grey Host, I sit with 300-400 ping, can't even 1v1. To the point where multiple times I've had extended (5-10 minute) stretches of abilities failing to go off to the point where both parties stopped fighting, and starting to debate whats wrong with these servers in /whisper
IMO; there are two pieces of the puzzle that need to be taken care of to extinguish a lot of the lag
1. Remove all the wanton-ly placed cast timers. Seriously, this disrupts a smooth combat system, and adds more calculations to your already "Overloaded" server.
2. Seriously, invest in more servers/do whatever it is that gives pvp performance priority during events.
The state of Cyrodiil right now is downright despicable.
33
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pauld1_ESO✭✭✭✭Even worse with the AOE testing going on. I am even having weird ability lag when my latency isn't even that high.12 -
wolfie1.0.✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭OP I think you need to relax a tad. The whole purpose of this testing period was for ZOS to try to identify the cause of the lag. They are trying various things that need to be done on live servers. While its frustrating, the fact that you and others are experiencing issues IS a good thing. For one it means that some of the AOE options wont work. For another it could possibly mean that AOE spamming is not the cause of the issue. And lastly it will help ZOS better identifying the cause of the issue. It's better for this to happen during the test period than not at all.3 -
relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭wtlonewolf20 wrote: »OP I think you need to relax a tad. The whole purpose of this testing period was for ZOS to try to identify the cause of the lag. They are trying various things that need to be done on live servers. While its frustrating, the fact that you and others are experiencing issues IS a good thing. For one it means that some of the AOE options wont work. For another it could possibly mean that AOE spamming is not the cause of the issue. And lastly it will help ZOS better identifying the cause of the issue. It's better for this to happen during the test period than not at all.
I don't think he needs to chill out...
It's been like this since the release of harrowstorm... which was february... The reduction of aoe was meant to elevate this performance and it's just as bad...
The fact that they broke 4 platforms to add another is unacceptable imo.
Selling it as performance improvement by removing the spaghetti code off the client and dumping it on the server obviously has had a very negative effect. All so stadia could have efficient access to the spaghetti code.
I think any other company would have reverted a patch that did as much damage as harrowstorm did. I believe people have a right to be upset by it.
I was looking forward to performance during the tests despite the cost of achieving it, but it still runs like trash regardless!39 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I am not trying to attack the PVP community in ESO, but man as a 20 year PVPer both FPS and mostly MMO's, ESO PVP should be removed. Its the absolute worst of any pvp I have encountered. They have not been able to get it right since launch. Its a lag fest and a balance nightmare. It wont be removed because they do not want to upset that portion of the community, and understandably so because that is a lot of money, but every one who pvp's in ESO will just be strung along until the day the servers are shut down.
Technically, I don't think the server architecture exists at a price point they are willing to spend.
Personally Cyrodiil should have been anothe PVE zone. Imperials got completely shafted in ESO.11 -
rpa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I tried sub 50 yesterday morning at lv 10 char and it was completely smooth as far as I can tell. For me and the other 3 (enemy) players I found around the map. (Thanks them to be kind enough to let me test how how many seconds I can survive against someone with some idea how to pvp.)3 -
cheesefome✭✭✭Getting it in IC as well as of late. It's not crazy but from time to time skills wont respond unless i push the same ability 10 times.3
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HalvarIronfist✭✭✭✭wtlonewolf20 wrote: »OP I think you need to relax a tad. The whole purpose of this testing period was for ZOS to try to identify the cause of the lag. They are trying various things that need to be done on live servers. While its frustrating, the fact that you and others are experiencing issues IS a good thing. For one it means that some of the AOE options wont work. For another it could possibly mean that AOE spamming is not the cause of the issue. And lastly it will help ZOS better identifying the cause of the issue. It's better for this to happen during the test period than not at all.
Let me explain further that this post is not regarding the AOE tests/and their effects entirely. Rather, the direction Cyrodiil has been taken in the last few years. While I personally believe ZOS looking into the AOE tests is a positive step forward, I don't think it's THE right option.7 -
Ackwalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PvP and PTS share server resources. Whenever PTS is going, PvP is worse then normal.5 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Technically everything rests in the lap of Matt Firor as he runs the show. He determines the direction the game goes and signs off on any major change that occurs. I figure this is obvious. BTW, this is not bashing Matt either as it really just notes he has a lot of responsibility.
While this is the first game I have ever played where performance degraded over time, there are some noteworthy changes Zos has made that is likely the lion's share of why we are where we are. The game started with a trusted client that did the checks on many things such as having enough resources to use a skill or enough ult to use an ultimate. Zos moved these checks to the server to reduce the ammount of cheating that was occurring. That change was one of the most significant changes to degrade the server's performance. Add to that the number of calculations Zos has added to the game from CP to new buffs and debuffs. While I have oversimplified part of this, it pretty much explains what has happened in a nutshell.
Further, it really serves no purpose to complain about the testing as Zos will wisely ignore threads are just complaining for the sake of it They will pay more attention to the well though constructive feedback threads and posts that are provided. The testing serves a good purpose as it does give Zos valid information about the effects of AoEs on the performance. It does not mean Zos will choose one of these formats being tested and this has been proven before, most notably the last time Zos tested in Cyrodiil in the live campaigns.Edited by idk on October 4, 2020 3:56AM6 -
cheesefome✭✭✭relentless_turnip wrote: »wtlonewolf20 wrote: »OP I think you need to relax a tad. The whole purpose of this testing period was for ZOS to try to identify the cause of the lag. They are trying various things that need to be done on live servers. While its frustrating, the fact that you and others are experiencing issues IS a good thing. For one it means that some of the AOE options wont work. For another it could possibly mean that AOE spamming is not the cause of the issue. And lastly it will help ZOS better identifying the cause of the issue. It's better for this to happen during the test period than not at all.
I don't think he needs to chill out...
It's been like this since the release of harrowstorm... which was february... The reduction of aoe was meant to elevate this performance and it's just as bad...
The fact that they broke 4 platforms to add another is unacceptable imo.
Selling it as performance improvement by removing the spaghetti code off the client and dumping it on the server obviously has had a very negative effect. All so stadia could have efficient access to the spaghetti code.
I think any other company would have reverted a patch that did as much damage as harrowstorm did. I believe people have a right to be upset by it.
I was looking forward to performance during the tests despite the cost of achieving it, but it still runs like trash regardless!
well said, ive only played 5-6 months and im already wondering where ESO is spending their resources. They really need to concentrate on fixing this problem. Any other game with the lowest of budgets would have fixed this by now, it's odd that they haven't found a solution. I wonder if they even care.12 -
cheesefome✭✭✭pauld1_ESO wrote: »Even worse with the AOE testing going on. I am even having weird ability lag when my latency isn't even that high.
me too.3 -
cheesefome✭✭✭HalvarIronfist wrote: »This is no other way to vocalize my disappointment with Cyrodiil's performance/latency state besides saying:
How is this acceptable? Who, or why was it allowed to degrade this much? During the events I personally notice higher stability/performance in Cyro or the Imperial city than I do otherwise.
For the entirety of the Imperial City Event, I played without a crash, usually with 60-120 ping depending on group sizes that rolled through. A smooth and enjoyable experience. This also applies with midyear mayhem in cyrodiil.
Now? If I go into Grey Host, I sit with 300-400 ping, can't even 1v1. To the point where multiple times I've had extended (5-10 minute) stretches of abilities failing to go off to the point where both parties stopped fighting, and starting to debate whats wrong with these servers in /whisper
IMO; there are two pieces of the puzzle that need to be taken care of to extinguish a lot of the lag
1. Remove all the wanton-ly placed cast timers. Seriously, this disrupts a smooth combat system, and adds more calculations to your already "Overloaded" server.
2. Seriously, invest in more servers/do whatever it is that gives pvp performance priority during events.
The state of Cyrodiil right now is downright despicable.
Whatever they are doing, it's also affecting IC. I never noticed lag before they started doing these tests i dont know if its bcause people are coming from cyrodiil but im getting horrible skill delays.5 -
Thechuckage✭✭✭✭✭I'd say years of mis-management and kicking the can down the road until someone finally looked at the situation and realized it had gone too far for too long.
I believe it was Ben Franklin who said, "An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure." Well, prevention is out of the question, obviously.
Only questions are the PvP servers fixable? And are they a precursor for things to come or an isolated case.12 -
cheesefome✭✭✭Thechuckage wrote: »I'd say years of mis-management and kicking the can down the road until someone finally looked at the situation and realized it had gone too far for too long.
I believe it was Ben Franklin who said, "An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure." Well, prevention is out of the question, obviously.
Only questions are the PvP servers fixable? And are they a precursor for things to come or an isolated case.
Thats what im worried about. I really hope its an awakening call and not the beginning of the end.
On side note im really happy people are expressing their opinion. Hope more people come out because I would love a functional ESO sometime within the future, sooner rather than later.3 -
Weesacs✭✭✭✭✭Why are you guys even playing Cyrodill when it's so bad?
Honestly, you all know how bad it is but keep going in?
It's like putting your hand in a fire then complaining how hot it is.
Maybe if people stopped going in there and it became dead then they would do something about it?Breton Templar
PS5 - EU - DC3 -
OOJIMMY✭✭✭Why are you guys even playing Cyrodill when it's so bad?
Honestly, you all know how bad it is but keep going in?
It's like putting your hand in a fire then complaining how hot it is.
Maybe if people stopped going in there and it became dead then they would do something about it?
Because most of us know how fun it is when it works.
If we all stopped playing because of its problems I feel like ZOS would use that as an excuse to just scrap cyrodiil.10 -
HalvarIronfist✭✭✭✭Why are you guys even playing Cyrodill when it's so bad?
Honestly, you all know how bad it is but keep going in?
It's like putting your hand in a fire then complaining how hot it is.
Maybe if people stopped going in there and it became dead then they would do something about it?
By this train of thought, you're effectively saying: "Hey, the hard drive in my computer died. I can get a replacement for 40 USD or throw out the computer"
We know it's bad. But Cyrodiil (The Hard Drive) and it's content is still a part of ESO (The PC). Why throw out the whole game for some players that exclusively love cyro/pvp when it can be fixed, or maintained?
I like ESO's pvp, a lot of people do. Should we not complain and hope for better light to change Cyrodiil? Becoming dead won't do anything for it. For example, look at IC. Most of the year besides events I find it to be grossly underpopulated.
If we put our voices/opinions out there to inform/be acknowledge by ZOS, that's how you can make change. Not just ignoring something and hoping they figure it out along the way.3 -
stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭(This post is PC-centric. I have no experience with any of the console versions.)
I really don't think Cyrodiil is earning them any profit, however you might want to calculate that. Throwing more resources at it obviously works, because the event ran reasonably smooth even with lots of extra players who usually don't touch PvP. It seems like it is too expensive for them to rent enough server and bandwidth capacity to fix it like that in the long run.
We have never had any hard numbers on the amount of active players in ESO. The Steam statistics is only a part of it, and it does not show whether people are playing PvE or PvP. From my in-game experiences in ESO guilds of many kinds, I can confidently say that the PvP players are a minority. I don't know exactly how small that minority is, but doing some obvious math on what we can see, the number of campaigns is in the low single digits, with a low population cap of around a few hundred players. It used to be a few hundred players per faction, perhaps even as much as 1,000 per faction back in 2014 while most calculations were still performed client-side, but the cap has been reduced several times since then, in their attempts to maintain a reasonable level of performance. I would guess that a "full" campaign now has at most 1,000 players in it. It's still just a guess, but I would think I'm not that far off.
Thus, even if all campaigns were population capped, which they usually aren't, the number of concurrent PvP players in Cyrodiil would be a few thousand souls who prefer that game mode with all its problems.
We are not getting any actual numbers on the amount of PvE players, but we can make educated guesses. Steam currently shows around 30k concurrent ESO players during peak hours, and there are many players who don't access the game through Steam. 40-50k concurrent players in total is a reasonably conservative estimate, and that would be more than 10 times the amount of players in a reasonably well populated Cyrodiil.
I honestly think PvP is now a calculated loss, maintained mostly for marketing reasons. Pride could be part of it as well, and maybe even a stubborn die-hard refusal to admit failure and abandon it. Perhaps they even still hold a faint hope that they will be able to fix it. However, their unwillingness to fix it in the obvious way, i.e. by throwing more server resources at it like during the event, tells me that they have no budget for that, and that their money is made elsewhere.
PvP is a big problem for them. They never really delivered on their bold promise from 2014 of massive siege warfare battles with hundreds of players. It could be a wise move to just get rid of it. I'm not saying it is, because I don't have nearly enough information to tell, but it could be. At a certain point, walking away and admitting defeat becomes the least bad option.
5 -
Spartabunny08✭✭✭✭Technically everything rests in the lap of Matt Firor as he runs the show. He determines the direction the game goes and signs off on any major change that occurs. I figure this is obvious. BTW, this is not bashing Matt either as it really just notes he has a lot of responsibility.
While this is the first game I have ever played where performance degraded over time, there are some noteworthy changes Zos has made that is likely the lion's share of why we are where we are. The game started with a trusted client that did the checks on many things such as having enough resources to use a skill or enough ult to use an ultimate. Zos moved these checks to the server to reduce the ammount of cheating that was occurring. That change was one of the most significant changes to degrade the server's performance. Add to that the number of calculations Zos has added to the game from CP to new buffs and debuffs. While I have oversimplified part of this, it pretty much explains what has happened in a nutshell.
Further, it really serves no purpose to complain about the testing as Zos will wisely ignore threads are just complaining for the sake of it They will pay more attention to the well though constructive feedback threads and posts that are provided. The testing serves a good purpose as it does give Zos valid information about the effects of AoEs on the performance. It does not mean Zos will choose one of these formats being tested and this has been proven before, most notably the last time Zos tested in Cyrodiil in the live campaigns.
To add to this the dolmens and PvE they added in cyrodiil didn't help either. Bruma dolmen main culprit for all the weirdness that occurs around it. I've seen the dolmen effects in Chalman inner keep... this is not good. Something has gone wrong here and it has just been left alone and not dealt with. AoE is the problem we wish to single out for the lag issue and albeit maybe a contributing factor but I do believe the PvE added to cyrodiil maybe a larger contributing factor.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Spartabunny08 wrote: »Technically everything rests in the lap of Matt Firor as he runs the show. He determines the direction the game goes and signs off on any major change that occurs. I figure this is obvious. BTW, this is not bashing Matt either as it really just notes he has a lot of responsibility.
While this is the first game I have ever played where performance degraded over time, there are some noteworthy changes Zos has made that is likely the lion's share of why we are where we are. The game started with a trusted client that did the checks on many things such as having enough resources to use a skill or enough ult to use an ultimate. Zos moved these checks to the server to reduce the ammount of cheating that was occurring. That change was one of the most significant changes to degrade the server's performance. Add to that the number of calculations Zos has added to the game from CP to new buffs and debuffs. While I have oversimplified part of this, it pretty much explains what has happened in a nutshell.
Further, it really serves no purpose to complain about the testing as Zos will wisely ignore threads are just complaining for the sake of it They will pay more attention to the well though constructive feedback threads and posts that are provided. The testing serves a good purpose as it does give Zos valid information about the effects of AoEs on the performance. It does not mean Zos will choose one of these formats being tested and this has been proven before, most notably the last time Zos tested in Cyrodiil in the live campaigns.
To add to this the dolmens and PvE they added in cyrodiil didn't help either. Bruma dolmen main culprit for all the weirdness that occurs around it. I've seen the dolmen effects in Chalman inner keep... this is not good. Something has gone wrong here and it has just been left alone and not dealt with. AoE is the problem we wish to single out for the lag issue and albeit maybe a contributing factor but I do believe the PvE added to cyrodiil maybe a larger contributing factor.
The dolmens and other PvE in Cyrodiil have been part of it since well before the game launched. As such it cannot be part of why Cyrodiil's performance has degraded over the years
So this is incorrect to suggest it is adding to what I said.1 -
Gorreck✭✭✭Thechuckage wrote: »Only questions are the PvP servers fixable? And are they a precursor for things to come or an isolated case.
Strangely they worked pretty well (compared to now, not so much 2014) in this years Mid-Year Mayhem.
0 -
Swordancer✭✭✭This game is slowly dying. There is more and more videos on YouTube which make fun of this game performance. There is no badass trailer that will save it from what is happening out there. This is a real anti marketing lynch.
There are some new mmo coming that looks promising. I think a lot of players are just waiting to leave it. The quality of ESO is getting worse every single patch.5 -
Thechuckage✭✭✭✭✭Thechuckage wrote: »Only questions are the PvP servers fixable? And are they a precursor for things to come or an isolated case.
Strangely they worked pretty well (compared to now, not so much 2014) in this years Mid-Year Mayhem.
It's safe to say if there was a permanent solution, it most likely would have been implemented already. Cyro is turning into an uglier and deeper black eye on ESO and it aint getting prettier.
MYM worked a lot smoother due to shifting resources over to Cyro, because that is where the main pop. was, robbing Peter to pay Paul. This is hardly a long-term solution.2 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭All I know is PvP has kept me playing for over six years.
Let's see if they want people like me to play another 6 years.
I know they count on new players but so far everyone I have introduced to ESO over the years are no longer playing.6 -
Rexy18✭✭✭It's acceptable because PvPers bring in very little profit and so we don't matter as customers. Cyro has been a lagfest since 2.0 and the fact they haven't been able to fix it after 5 years stopped being a joke a long time ago, it's just pathetic0 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I can personally attest as a PvPer I spend way more money than I have in any other game in my 66 years on this planet.6 -
TineaCruris✭✭✭✭✭Spartabunny08 wrote: »Technically everything rests in the lap of Matt Firor as he runs the show. He determines the direction the game goes and signs off on any major change that occurs. I figure this is obvious. BTW, this is not bashing Matt either as it really just notes he has a lot of responsibility.
While this is the first game I have ever played where performance degraded over time, there are some noteworthy changes Zos has made that is likely the lion's share of why we are where we are. The game started with a trusted client that did the checks on many things such as having enough resources to use a skill or enough ult to use an ultimate. Zos moved these checks to the server to reduce the ammount of cheating that was occurring. That change was one of the most significant changes to degrade the server's performance. Add to that the number of calculations Zos has added to the game from CP to new buffs and debuffs. While I have oversimplified part of this, it pretty much explains what has happened in a nutshell.
Further, it really serves no purpose to complain about the testing as Zos will wisely ignore threads are just complaining for the sake of it They will pay more attention to the well though constructive feedback threads and posts that are provided. The testing serves a good purpose as it does give Zos valid information about the effects of AoEs on the performance. It does not mean Zos will choose one of these formats being tested and this has been proven before, most notably the last time Zos tested in Cyrodiil in the live campaigns.
To add to this the dolmens and PvE they added in cyrodiil didn't help either. Bruma dolmen main culprit for all the weirdness that occurs around it. I've seen the dolmen effects in Chalman inner keep... this is not good. Something has gone wrong here and it has just been left alone and not dealt with. AoE is the problem we wish to single out for the lag issue and albeit maybe a contributing factor but I do believe the PvE added to cyrodiil maybe a larger contributing factor.
The dolmens and other PvE in Cyrodiil have been part of it since well before the game launched. As such it cannot be part of why Cyrodiil's performance has degraded over the years
So this is incorrect to suggest it is adding to what I said.
AOE's have been in Cyrodiil equally long as the dolmens and PvE content as well. So by your reasoning, we also know AOE spamming is not the source of the problems.
They just need to take a very minor hit on their profit margin and invest in the needed hardware to support their software. This is becoming more and more evident with every test and tweak they do.6 -
relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It's acceptable because PvPers bring in very little profit and so we don't matter as customers. Cyro has been a lagfest since 2.0 and the fact they haven't been able to fix it after 5 years stopped being a joke a long time ago, it's just pathetic
I never understand this argument, I and most people I play with are ESO+ subscribers and own houses, buy every expansion etc... I do believe they cater to a more casual market, but I don't believe pvpers spend any less money than others. The amount of times I see a tornado and someone climbing on their $1000 mount in cyrodill is frequent enough to disprove this.7
