Simple fix for vampires debuffs

Xargas13 · September 2020

Introduce a new passive, that the less recourse of highest offensive stat you have, the more effective your abilities are, similar as to how damage reduction passive work. I think it will be a nice trade off, because as of now, running stage 4 vampire is a pain in the *** sometimes. Like there are a lot of battles can be lost simply because you run out of recourses, as for your desire to force us to use vampire abilities on stage 4, it's useless, since they are not great at all, make us want to use them, not force us....

Atherakhia · September 2020

The whole vampire rework needs to be trashed and started over. They didn't listen to any of the feedback they were given. People throughout the whole PTS said the only thing of any value was the spammable and stun, and now even that's trash. The whole thing just doesn't make sense.

IMO, they should have made vampire stages just start converting a portion of your ability cost to come from your health. As you ranked up you gained a spell and weapon damage bonus.

Something like:
Stage 1 - 10% of your ability cost will now use health instead. Player gains +50 spell and weapon damage.
Stage 4 - 40% of your ability cost will now use health instead. Player gains +200 spell and weapon damage.

The vampire abilities could then do something to offset this.

For example, a passive that makes the heal cost reduced by 20% for every vampire ability slotted. Or how about for every vampire ability slotted, a portion of your damage is returned to you as health.

I'd use something like that and it still isn't as broken as Werewolf.

Deathlord92 · September 2020

I just keep hoping for vampire buffs it clearly needs it and no doubt zos has seen at least one of the threads about it by now.

Grianasteri · September 2020

I dont think Vampirism needs a complete rework. Vampirism is clearly in a far far better place now, than it was before, when most people simply used it for the passives and never thought about it again.

Now at least there is a full skill tree, there are viable ultimates and skills as well as some great passives. From what I remember of people explaining what they wanted from Vampirism before the changes, its actually pretty close now to a lot of that, so the idea no feedback was listened to I think is not entirely correct, to say the least.

One area I do think needs some consideration, is the balance between risk/reward for the vampire stages. Are the skills powerful enough to replace meta skills on builds? Well yes and no, the skills can be super powerful when used together and if you build around them... but that is a lot of effort and quite a change to play style to be a vampire... now, also consider, that was actually part of the point.

If you are a Werewolf, that is clearly a completely different playstyle and you need to very much build around being a Werwolf to get the most out of it... So is Vampirism much different in this respect? Not too different. But the point is, were only usin g a skills but being massively punished sustain wise and I am not sure the balance is right there.

I do think its an issue when folk really only want to slote 1 or 2 skills from the skill line, that needs looked at and I think the skills need some tweaking to make them more worthy of consideration to replace meta skills.

Also, a side issue some may not have considered... its been years since Zos provided more character slots. Yet new classes have been released, umpteen DLC, new sets, new skill lines etc... then we get a Vampire rework that basically means you need a specific build and character to play fully into vampirism... still no new character slots. Zos really need to get their act together, especially given other massively popular MMOs are allowing 50 or 100 character slots.

Ramble over.

ps, Werewolf is broken? Err, nah, mine is great fun and does great dps, thanks.
.

Nova_J · September 2020

Grianasteri wrote: »

I dont think Vampirism needs a complete rework. Vampirism is clearly in a far far better place now, than it was before, when most people simply used it for the passives and never thought about it again.

Now at least there is a full skill tree, there are viable ultimates and skills as well as some great passives. From what I remember of people explaining what they wanted from Vampirism before the changes, its actually pretty close now to a lot of that, so the idea no feedback was listened to I think is not entirely correct, to say the least.

One area I do think needs some consideration, is the balance between risk/reward for the vampire stages. Are the skills powerful enough to replace meta skills on builds? Well yes and no, the skills can be super powerful when used together and if you build around them... but that is a lot of effort and quite a change to play style to be a vampire... now, also consider, that was actually part of the point.

If you are a Werewolf, that is clearly a completely different playstyle and you need to very much build around being a Werwolf to get the most out of it... So is Vampirism much different in this respect? Not too different. But the point is, were only usin g a skills but being massively punished sustain wise and I am not sure the balance is right there.

I do think its an issue when folk really only want to slote 1 or 2 skills from the skill line, that needs looked at and I think the skills need some tweaking to make them more worthy of consideration to replace meta skills.

Also, a side issue some may not have considered... its been years since Zos provided more character slots. Yet new classes have been released, umpteen DLC, new sets, new skill lines etc... then we get a Vampire rework that basically means you need a specific build and character to play fully into vampirism... still no new character slots. Zos really need to get their act together, especially given other massively popular MMOs are allowing 50 or 100 character slots.

Ramble over.

ps, Werewolf is broken? Err, nah, mine is great fun and does great dps, thanks.
.

Yea no, just because they have skills that arent complete garbage (the ultimate) doesn't make it viable. The ult alone is 280+ at stage 4. And only 1 morph gives you a significant damage increase for the cost. Alot of the skills DO need to be reworked, they need to align better with the passive and have more synergy. Because right now, its almost nonexistent. The passives are only beneficial to gank builds and NB. Theres more than on class and playstyle in the game lol.

Vevvev · September 2020

281 ultimate at stage 3, and 254 ultimate at stage 4 is what the actual numbers are Nova_J, but I agree with you. The abilities need better synergy as they feel like islands. There is the Arterial Burst + Blood Frenzy combo that works rather well if you're not getting hit, but Blood for Blood + Blood Frenzy is very risky to pull off.

Then there are the other abilities and there isn't really a vampire specific burst you could align with the stun due to a lack of offensive skills, no passives or abilities that are effected by Vampiric Drain, and the stage 4 passive has no synergy with any of vampire's active abilities.

Now if you could sprint while in mistform then stage 4 would be incredibly useful! Could make elusive mist actually elusive.

Vayln_Ninetails · September 2020

Atherakhia wrote: »

The whole vampire rework needs to be trashed and started over. They didn't listen to any of the feedback they were given. People throughout the whole PTS said the only thing of any value was the spammable and stun, and now even that's trash. The whole thing just doesn't make sense.

IMO, they should have made vampire stages just start converting a portion of your ability cost to come from your health. As you ranked up you gained a spell and weapon damage bonus.

Something like:
Stage 1 - 10% of your ability cost will now use health instead. Player gains +50 spell and weapon damage.
Stage 4 - 40% of your ability cost will now use health instead. Player gains +200 spell and weapon damage.

The vampire abilities could then do something to offset this.

For example, a passive that makes the heal cost reduced by 20% for every vampire ability slotted. Or how about for every vampire ability slotted, a portion of your damage is returned to you as health.

I'd use something like that and it still isn't as broken as Werewolf.

This x1000000

Start over with new abilities, new passives, new ultimate. This rework didn't cut it.

Vayln_Ninetails · September 2020

Nova_J wrote: »

Grianasteri wrote: »

I dont think Vampirism needs a complete rework. Vampirism is clearly in a far far better place now, than it was before, when most people simply used it for the passives and never thought about it again.

Now at least there is a full skill tree, there are viable ultimates and skills as well as some great passives. From what I remember of people explaining what they wanted from Vampirism before the changes, its actually pretty close now to a lot of that, so the idea no feedback was listened to I think is not entirely correct, to say the least.

One area I do think needs some consideration, is the balance between risk/reward for the vampire stages. Are the skills powerful enough to replace meta skills on builds? Well yes and no, the skills can be super powerful when used together and if you build around them... but that is a lot of effort and quite a change to play style to be a vampire... now, also consider, that was actually part of the point.

If you are a Werewolf, that is clearly a completely different playstyle and you need to very much build around being a Werwolf to get the most out of it... So is Vampirism much different in this respect? Not too different. But the point is, were only usin g a skills but being massively punished sustain wise and I am not sure the balance is right there.

I do think its an issue when folk really only want to slote 1 or 2 skills from the skill line, that needs looked at and I think the skills need some tweaking to make them more worthy of consideration to replace meta skills.

Also, a side issue some may not have considered... its been years since Zos provided more character slots. Yet new classes have been released, umpteen DLC, new sets, new skill lines etc... then we get a Vampire rework that basically means you need a specific build and character to play fully into vampirism... still no new character slots. Zos really need to get their act together, especially given other massively popular MMOs are allowing 50 or 100 character slots.

Ramble over.

ps, Werewolf is broken? Err, nah, mine is great fun and does great dps, thanks.
.

Yea no, just because they have skills that arent complete garbage (the ultimate) doesn't make it viable. The ult alone is 280+ at stage 4. And only 1 morph gives you a significant damage increase for the cost. Alot of the skills DO need to be reworked, they need to align better with the passive and have more synergy. Because right now, its almost nonexistent. The passives are only beneficial to gank builds and NB. Theres more than on class and playstyle in the game lol.

Agreed, kind of crazy how these peeps will defend an entire skill line because 1 or 2 skills might be good. Man, if you're only using 1-2 skills in a skill line that actively encourages you to use ALL of their skills, then that's.....pretty bad?

ParaViking · September 2020

Simpler fix... for starters.

Remove skill costs, and -100% health regen at stage 4.

The above will only take about 15 minutes... Easy!

Tweak the rest as time goes on. A lot of good suggestions out there for skills that make since.

Phaedryn · September 2020

Vampire isn't a class, nor should it be treated like one. It's an augment that needs to have negatives and positives, or it become mandatory over "normal" players.

I have 2, a NB who lives at Stage 4 for the Dark Stalker and Unnatural Movement and a Tank that lives at Stage 3 for Undeath. Both you one or two skills (Blood Mist and Hypnosis mainly) and I treat vampirism simply as a compliment to my class, not as THE class.

Grianasteri · September 2020

@Nova_J

Yea no, just because they have skills that arent complete garbage (the ultimate) doesn't make it viable. The ult alone is 280+ at stage 4. And only 1 morph gives you a significant damage increase for the cost. Alot of the skills DO need to be reworked, they need to align better with the passive and have more synergy. Because right now, its almost nonexistent. The passives are only beneficial to gank builds and NB. Theres more than on class and playstyle in the game lol.

@Vayln_Ninetails

Agreed, kind of crazy how these peeps will defend an entire skill line because 1 or 2 skills might be good. Man, if you're only using 1-2 skills in a skill line that actively encourages you to use ALL of their skills, then that's.....pretty bad?

It kinda seems like neither of you actually read what I wrote.

I literally said some of the skills need reworked as the balance isnt right vis risk/reward and negative/positive.

I literally didnt defend the whole skill line, I literally said the balance isnt right if folk only want to use a couple of the skills.

I also made the comparison to Werewolves, which has its own unique play style, and you don't get to change that play style, you get 1 bar of skills and one play style. Vamprism is similar, but significantly more flexible!

These views do not = the entire vampirism status is trash, scrap it all, start again. You are both entitled to such an opinion, I do not share it and have had great fun and great success with my vampires, thanks.

Reading and understanding what someone has said, before responding, so that you can actually engage with what they say, counter it or find common ground... these are key skills in debating or any kind of discourse.

Nova_J · September 2020

Grianasteri wrote: »

@Nova_J

Yea no, just because they have skills that arent complete garbage (the ultimate) doesn't make it viable. The ult alone is 280+ at stage 4. And only 1 morph gives you a significant damage increase for the cost. Alot of the skills DO need to be reworked, they need to align better with the passive and have more synergy. Because right now, its almost nonexistent. The passives are only beneficial to gank builds and NB. Theres more than on class and playstyle in the game lol.

@Vayln_Ninetails

Agreed, kind of crazy how these peeps will defend an entire skill line because 1 or 2 skills might be good. Man, if you're only using 1-2 skills in a skill line that actively encourages you to use ALL of their skills, then that's.....pretty bad?

It kinda seems like neither of you actually read what I wrote.

I literally said some of the skills need reworked as the balance isnt right vis risk/reward and negative/positive.

I literally didnt defend the whole skill line, I literally said the balance isnt right if folk only want to use a couple of the skills.

I also made the comparison to Werewolves, which has its own unique play style, and you don't get to change that play style, you get 1 bar of skills and one play style. Vamprism is similar, but significantly more flexible!

These views do not = the entire vampirism status is trash, scrap it all, start again. You are both entitled to such an opinion, I do not share it and have had great fun and great success with my vampires, thanks.

Reading and understanding what someone has said, before responding, so that you can actually engage with what they say, counter it or find common ground... these are key skills in debating or any kind of discourse.

What I gathered from your previous statement was that you thought the skills only needed minor tweaks and adjustments because they are useful in some areas. There is a large difference between a rework and a tweak/minor change. I was saying that the skills and the line DO need full reworks because they are simply lacking way too much. I think the new vamp design at its core is too flawed and would be much easier to balance around had they went a more traditional vamp route. So no, you stated that you dont think it needs another rework and that the line only needed tweaks, I was simply disagreeing. This mess is, in my opinion, beyond tweaks and changes.

I dont need a lesson in comprehension lol you just slightly misinterpreted my response .