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(Psijic) Stamina Necromancer: DW or 2H?
EramTheLiar
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I know this question has been asked before, and before, and before, and before, and before... I'm asking it again. :-) I've read a fair number of posts and the answer seems to always end up "DW gives you more DPS but not enough to really matter unless you are trying to win some kind of prize, go with whatever you want." I'm never going to be top-ranking DPS, or anything, so I've just been playing with both and trying to figure out what I like best. And I like different parts of both lines, and can't figure out which side comes out ahead.
I should note that while I've been playing with this I've also been playing with the psijic skill line, which has muddied the waters. I know most of you got over the psijic line years ago, but it's still shiny to me. Be kind.
Anyway, here's what I've noticed so far:
DW:
+ on a purely superficial level, I tend to like the way DW feels faster than 2H, though the animations are weird if you're dual weilding blunt weapons or axes, especially with the flurry skill and it's morphs
- The whirlwind line feels redundant if you have ruinous scythe. yes, whirling blades gives you 100% more damage when targets fall below 50% and it's an AOE centered on you, but ruinous scythe is cheaper to use and gives you a heal. It is an arc in front of you but that just means you need to move around while using it, which isn't really a problem. Its not as a good a heal as the magicka morph because it doesn't have the hot effect, but it's still really useful. I like to think of it as the templar puncturing sweep's cousin from the wrong side of the tracks that never gets invited to Thanksgiving.
+ The flurry line is useful and does good damage BUT
- I find that (since I'm playing with the psijic skill line) crushing weapon is more useful when I can get the weaving right. It's less expensive and has a built-in self heal
+ the DW passives give you nice bonuses to damage, and increased crit if you DW daggers
+ it's actually possible to use DW without buying any of the attack skills if you're spamming with crushing weapon. That means you can also remove the passives that are just for the DW skills, which makes the whole line cheaper to buy with skill points
+ specific to crushing weapon, the DW attack animations mesh with the crushing weapon charge animation pretty smoothly, making it easier to spam. You still have to get the timing right, though, which is a problem in its own right
2H:
general note: I hated the 2h weapon line for a long time but it turns out what I really hate is the uppercut skill and its morphs. I really, really despise uppercut.
+ 2H gives you a LOT of utility. You get splash AOE damage from your single target attacks, even light and heavy attacks, which is really nice when you combine it with psijic's crushing weapon, because you get splash AOE and a self-heal. You get a closer that auto-crits and can be morphed into a DOT, which you can use just as a regular attack. I mean, stampede isn't the biggest DOT in the world but it's there. Cleave can morph into a spammable damage shield, which is really nice for a stamina necromancer to have.
+ Reverse Slice turns a decent execute into a pretty cheap AOE and on a superficial level I really like the animation
- on the other hand, and this is just comparing it to Crushing Weapon, crushing weapon does better pre-execute damage and has that built-in heal.
- on the other hand, the charge animation crushing weapon uses with 2H is kind of clunky and it's made it more difficult for me to practice weaving with it. It feels wrong even when I'm doing it right.
(Note to self: I really need to save up and get a flipping target dummy to practice this stuff on)
- overall 2H seems to do less damage that DW
+ but overall 2H seems to have a LOT more utility than DW
At the end of the day, my thought is that both DW and 2H are functionally identicial for most solo play fights. And I don't really PVP, so their respective pluses and minuses are irrelevant to me there. If I do ever really get into it, well, I know that both weapons are used in PVP so whichever one I choose, there will be something to learn, and I can maybe learn it.
So it comes down to which is more useful in the world boss/end dungeon boss fights. DW seems to do more damage but I think in group settings -- DPS guys are going to kill me for saying this -- that's not necessarily as relevant as being able to stay in the fight. DW gives you 25% AOE mitigation, 2h gives you a spammable damage shield. Crushing weapon gives you spammable damage with a heal but I'll be honest Ruinous Scythe is better for that even when you're just attacking one target, even though it costs more.
Anyway, that's what I see, but I may not be seeing everything correctly. Anyone have any 2 cents to add?
Edited by EramTheLiar on September 26, 2020 3:06PM I should note that while I've been playing with this I've also been playing with the psijic skill line, which has muddied the waters. I know most of you got over the psijic line years ago, but it's still shiny to me. Be kind.
Anyway, here's what I've noticed so far:
DW:
+ on a purely superficial level, I tend to like the way DW feels faster than 2H, though the animations are weird if you're dual weilding blunt weapons or axes, especially with the flurry skill and it's morphs
- The whirlwind line feels redundant if you have ruinous scythe. yes, whirling blades gives you 100% more damage when targets fall below 50% and it's an AOE centered on you, but ruinous scythe is cheaper to use and gives you a heal. It is an arc in front of you but that just means you need to move around while using it, which isn't really a problem. Its not as a good a heal as the magicka morph because it doesn't have the hot effect, but it's still really useful. I like to think of it as the templar puncturing sweep's cousin from the wrong side of the tracks that never gets invited to Thanksgiving.
+ The flurry line is useful and does good damage BUT
- I find that (since I'm playing with the psijic skill line) crushing weapon is more useful when I can get the weaving right. It's less expensive and has a built-in self heal
+ the DW passives give you nice bonuses to damage, and increased crit if you DW daggers
+ it's actually possible to use DW without buying any of the attack skills if you're spamming with crushing weapon. That means you can also remove the passives that are just for the DW skills, which makes the whole line cheaper to buy with skill points
+ specific to crushing weapon, the DW attack animations mesh with the crushing weapon charge animation pretty smoothly, making it easier to spam. You still have to get the timing right, though, which is a problem in its own right
2H:
general note: I hated the 2h weapon line for a long time but it turns out what I really hate is the uppercut skill and its morphs. I really, really despise uppercut.
+ 2H gives you a LOT of utility. You get splash AOE damage from your single target attacks, even light and heavy attacks, which is really nice when you combine it with psijic's crushing weapon, because you get splash AOE and a self-heal. You get a closer that auto-crits and can be morphed into a DOT, which you can use just as a regular attack. I mean, stampede isn't the biggest DOT in the world but it's there. Cleave can morph into a spammable damage shield, which is really nice for a stamina necromancer to have.
+ Reverse Slice turns a decent execute into a pretty cheap AOE and on a superficial level I really like the animation
- on the other hand, and this is just comparing it to Crushing Weapon, crushing weapon does better pre-execute damage and has that built-in heal.
- on the other hand, the charge animation crushing weapon uses with 2H is kind of clunky and it's made it more difficult for me to practice weaving with it. It feels wrong even when I'm doing it right.
(Note to self: I really need to save up and get a flipping target dummy to practice this stuff on)
- overall 2H seems to do less damage that DW
+ but overall 2H seems to have a LOT more utility than DW
At the end of the day, my thought is that both DW and 2H are functionally identicial for most solo play fights. And I don't really PVP, so their respective pluses and minuses are irrelevant to me there. If I do ever really get into it, well, I know that both weapons are used in PVP so whichever one I choose, there will be something to learn, and I can maybe learn it.
So it comes down to which is more useful in the world boss/end dungeon boss fights. DW seems to do more damage but I think in group settings -- DPS guys are going to kill me for saying this -- that's not necessarily as relevant as being able to stay in the fight. DW gives you 25% AOE mitigation, 2h gives you a spammable damage shield. Crushing weapon gives you spammable damage with a heal but I'll be honest Ruinous Scythe is better for that even when you're just attacking one target, even though it costs more.
Anyway, that's what I see, but I may not be seeing everything correctly. Anyone have any 2 cents to add?
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Everest_Lionheart✭✭✭✭✭One of the big reasons people run DW plus rapid strikes (flurry morph) is to proc their monster sets. That gives a chance to proc the set on each of the 5 hits plus your light attack. The BiS monster helms for stamina are Selene’s and Velidreth and have a 15% and 20% chance. You want those sets pretty much on a regular and reliable proc after cooldown to keep your damage up.
Also the last hit of any flurry morph deals 300% more damage always not just on execute. If it’s healing you are after you could always use the bloodthirst morph instead of rapid strikes which scales up in damage on each hit. It’s up to you really. Though honestly you could just run Briarheart plus any heal over time and it will outperform the bloodthirst morph of flurry. You should always run a heal over time skill IDK Necro class skills yet but I run stamden and stamblade and use their skills (green lotus and leeching strikes) with Briarheart and have no problems staying alive in battle.
Also for what it’s worth I do run whirling blades for 90% of the content and swap to rapid strikes for certain bosses when soloing or when running trials. 4 man groups I often keep the whirling blades because of its AOE when large mobs attack. I prefer the guaranteed hits to all as opposed to the single target focus.
As for the psijic skill I’m messing around with crushing weapon a little bit find it’s kind of lacking a bit in difficult fights. I also find it doesn’t synch up well with either of my rotations at the moment though I’m looking at it for the upcoming change to sub assault on warden which is moving to an every 6 cast as opposed to every 3. Might make the weaving easier and it’s really similar to magplar with potL and elemental weapons (magicka morph) however the LA weaving takes some getting used to. Crushing weapon is an older meta though but was quickly replaced by rending slashes which also comes with a bleed DOT which was replaced by rapid strikes, but that often depends what kind of arena weapon you are using because there are modifiers to certain DW skills. The same can be said for 2H as well. For example my stamblade can go double DW with BRP or maelstrom on the back bar for extra dmg to blade cloak or rapid strikes. The 2H maelstrom weapon adds bonus damage to stampede. You can also go with a more standard setup with a maelstrom bow on the backbar for bonus dmg to endless hail or the masters bow if you like to run poison injection (which also has an execute.)
The skilI do like on stamina from psijic line but only for solo play is introspection (meditate morph.) When this skill is maxed I can burst through all my stam if I want to, activate it and heal through most incoming damage and regenerate my rss at the same time. The other morph generates more stam recovery but I opt for the health morph because I can literally float there and anything outside of 1 shot mechs can not kill me and even some 1 shot mechs can’t if I’m close to full health. You can still get interrupted or knocked off balance by heavy attacks though so you have to be aware. You also have to learn how to get out of the channel at the right time and with the right move. If you are surrounded by a mob the best way out is with a dodge roll. Though sometimes I will end the channel with whatever skill boost my resistance (frost cloak on warden and mirage on NB.) The rest of that psijic line is better in the hands on magic users though you could make a case for the ultimate.
Anyway that’s my opinion as a DW stam player, non Necro though. Hope it helps.0 -
EramTheLiar✭✭✭✭I hadn't thought about using introspection that way. The increased health plus the 30% damage reduction passive (which I think is being knocked down to 10% with the next patch? Sigh) would make you pretty tanky while you're recovering your stamina. I went the other way because of the increased stamina gain but your reasoning makes a lot of sense, I may have to respec
I haven't done a lot with monster sets so far, I really need to start considering them. Maelstrom weapons, too...0 -
Wandering_Immigrant✭✭✭✭Just level both and use whichever fits your current content/mood in the moment. You could even occasionally go pure melee with 2h/dw that way, which is a lot of fun. I have all weapon configurations covered between all my characters (for stamcro it's 2h/bow for me), I even have 1, a stamdk, with all weapon lines levelled and a gear setup for every configuration from pure ranged bow/bow to pure melee with 2h/dw +s&b and even staff lines. Though I've never actually used staffs on him I just levelled them because it's part of his theme to have every weapon line levelled, but with the upcoming change to light attack scaling I've been brainstorming ways to incorporate them on him. And I can tell you there's little to no difference in how well they each perform in solo content including world bosses and dungeons. It's more about your assesments and reactions to any given situation.0
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Recapitated✭✭✭✭I use DW. I don't know anyone who uses crushing weapon, honestly I don't even remember what it does.
In the content I run, an extra heal on top of vigor is not what's needed. Either I messed up or the healer did. I don't run solo often and if I do it's through stuff the blows up after the burst from BB + whirlwind so there's no need for me to build for it.
I use rapid strikes as a spammable unless something nearby is in execute range, during execute phase I try to lay down all my DOTS ahead of time spend as much time as possible on whirlwind.Edited by Recapitated on September 27, 2020 4:52AM0