Is AP feeding legal?

Env_t · September 2020

i know few abusers and few emperors who did this for achievements, skills of just ranks
but looks like its allowed?

zaria · September 2020

People has gotten into trouble for flipping keeps and resources.
Its an cool down on AP for killing the same player, found out this then farming each other for the empior title

But think its pretty easy to get away with if you do it on an low pop server.

dcam86b14_ESO · September 2020

Unless you have hard proof, nothing can be done.

CaffeinatedMayhem · September 2020

zaria wrote: »

People has gotten into trouble for flipping keeps and resources.
Its an cool down on AP for killing the same player, found out this then farming each other for the empior title

But think its pretty easy to get away with if you do it on an low pop server.

It's not specifically against TOS... but it is highly looked down upon. Also yes, there are decreasing AP returns on killing the same player(s) over and over. So groups that "farm" other groups aren't doing it for the AP, just griefing.

Trading flips on resources is also a "technically not against TOS" but if that's what you're doing to get emp... you'll spend much less time running around leeching ticks. (showing up to other people's takes at the last moment to get the tick, but not fighting there)

This is why defense ticks are the largest... it encourages players to spend time fighting for their alliance.

Edit: OP it's obvious you haven't spent time in Cyro in a while... people still do the things you mention, BUT, they're not in top 10. Those methods haven't been effective for getting emp in years. Unless you can buy out 15 people (and depending on which alliance in which campaign that can be impossible) you're going to simply need to put the time in.

Recremen · September 2020

No, you are under arrest.

j/k, in all seriousness I have vague recollections of stories of people getting temp (or maybe perma?) bans over that behavior, but nothing concrete. Like some other problem behaviors, there probably won't ever be official word on it, so try it at your own risk. But I wouldn't recommend it.

thegreat_one · September 2020

Leaving keep doors open and just flipping flags with two or three keeps on a dead server

SpacemanSpiff1 · September 2020

super illegal

Dusk_Coven · September 2020

ZOS probably can't police it so they won't say anything about it. Same with every other exploit.
This question has been asked before. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/519709/ap-boosting-feeding-legit-against-tos#latest

In practice it would be very easy to be at the wrong place at the wrong time and get an AP boost tick. And then genuinely innocent people could get caught and punished if they simply grabbed everyone at and near the keep.

The best solution is to close Cyrodiil as an open world PvP to stop the exploit of millions of AP probably per day, and move all PvP into battlegrounds.

WreckfulAbandon · September 2020

VaranisArano · September 2020

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

ZOS probably can't police it so they won't say anything about it. Same with every other exploit.
This question has been asked before. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/519709/ap-boosting-feeding-legit-against-tos#latest

In practice it would be very easy to be at the wrong place at the wrong time and get an AP boost tick. And then genuinely innocent people could get caught and punished if they simply grabbed everyone at and near the keep.

The best solution is to close Cyrodiil as an open world PvP to stop the exploit of millions of AP probably per day, and move all PvP into battlegrounds.

Not the best solution at all.
Why don't we shut down the whole game because people can exploit, gold-sell, scam, and bot while we're at it? Bots earn millions of gold, a far more important in-game currency, every day. Even if we don't go so far, since min-maxers are "exploiters" according to you, we better remove all end-game PVE.

Or not, because some bad apples don't warrant removing gamemodes people enjoy. You are so Anti-cheating its downright Anti-Player.

Actually on topic, ZOS can and has identified and punished serious cases of flipping. Bleakers during the Double AP No CP test and one of the Blackboot resources when it was bugged. They can track AP gain and deal with it when they want to, and since they look for repeated instances, its more like your "innocent" player was at the wrong place again, and again, and again, and again...

Env_t · November 2020

so looks like AP feeding is legit yes
because ZOS silent

also 90% of emperors done by feed anyway nowadays

Anony_Mouse · November 2020

Env_t wrote: »

also 90% of emperors done by feed anyway nowadays

On which campaign? And what exactly do you base this on?

Last few campaigns on Grey Host the Emps have been bombers who get huge ticks due to the solo nature of their playstyle. Or people with really strong ww/leeching builds who can wreck larger groups of players in small numbers.

There are ways to get extra AP for your ticks. Just because people are aware of these and use this method does not mean they are AP feeding.

It sounds like you would like the Emp achievement, but haven’t figured out how to maximise your AP gain yet, so you blame others who have, if cheating.

Edit: typos

Kopocea · November 2020

There are players who is trolling by taking other alliance's scroll and then "destroying" it, and they are not getting banned despite of big amount of reports and doing it regularly.
I doubt that people report AP abusers that much, so it is even less likely to get punished.

Raideen · November 2020

Seems like this is exploitive in nature, I would guess it's probably best to stay way from doing this.

VaranisArano · November 2020

Env_t wrote: »

so looks like AP feeding is legit yes
because ZOS silent

also 90% of emperors done by feed anyway nowadays

ZOS actually says: "Accounts found taking part in cross-alliance AP farming may be subject to disciplinary actions." https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3961106#Comment_3961106

ZOS does take action when players are deliberately trading objectives (Bleakers incident) or taking advantage of bugged AP (Blackboot incident). Bleakers resulted in 3-day suspensions and loss of AP.

Its a lot harder to prove and get them to deal with "One guy is killing his buddies repeatedly by a resource or the gate way in the backfield where nobody ought to be unless they are feeding him AP." I can't recall specific examples, especially since ZOS isn't likely to discuss specific disciplinary actions, but I suspect that if you have recorded evidence, they would investigate. The problem is getting the evidence in the first place.

Chaos2088 · November 2020

I am unaware of any rules regarding ap gains at all.

Beardimus · November 2020

Chaos2088 wrote: »

I am unaware of any rules regarding ap gains at all.

Depends on interpretation. AP not called out specifics but mechanics abuse is.

Hence we all wait for baited breath for clarity from @ZOS_GinaBruno or @ZOS_BrianWheeler on the topic of feeding AP / boosting.

Faiza · November 2020

Sorry, I'm new - can someone give a tl;dr of the "bleakers incident" that is mentioned here?

VaranisArano · November 2020

Faiza wrote: »

Sorry, I'm new - can someone give a tl;dr of the "bleakers incident" that is mentioned here?

Bleakers Incident:
ZOS decided to test whether or not making all campaigns No CP would improve performance. They offered double AP for our troubles, as they do.

Some, ah, enterprising souls decided to make AP by trading Bleakers Outpost back and forth: running through it to flip the flags long enough to get the tick, then leaving the doors open for the next faction group to run through, flip the flags, and get their tick.

I linked ZOS' comment about their punishment above.

The Blackboot incident was a case of similar trading when one of the resources at Castle Blackboot was erroneously giving a lot more AP than it was supposed to. Even without the trading, the bugged AP was obvious and ZOS has punished players for abusing similar situations (examples: extra skill points from the Bangkorai public dungeon group boss, extra exp when Imperial City,was bugged during Dragonbones, etc.)

Env_t · November 2020

blackboot its bug abuse its different

same about bleakers, it was before they added AP cooldowns for same objective

VaranisArano · November 2020

Env_t wrote: »

blackboot its bug abuse its different

same about bleakers, it was before they added AP cooldowns for same objective

ZOS didn't punish the Bleakers farmers for abusing a bug. They punished them for being "involved in regular coordinated cross-alliance AP farming." It was specifically the act of swapping the outpost as opposed to farming your buddies at a back keep, but both are coordinated cross-alliance AP farming.

ZOS also says: "Accounts found taking part in cross-alliance AP farming may be subject to disciplinary actions." https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3961106#Comment_3961106

I'm curious now, since you've dismissed what ZOS said as applicable. Are you asking because you want ZOS to condemn it more strongly, or because you want AP farming to be legit?

JKorr · November 2020

Code of Conduct:
5.2 In relation to online/competitive games, you will not exploit any bug, or abuse any game system (such as the scoring or award systems) in a ZeniMax game, Service, forum, or other games or services provided by ZeniMax. You will not intentionally use or share any bug found within any ZeniMax Game, real or fictitious, regardless of whether or not it grants an unfair advantage. You will not directly or indirectly communicate the existence of any such bug to any other user of the ZeniMax Service (in game or on a ZeniMax Service). Report bugs and exploits using the in-game portal or via help.elderscrollsonline.com. Unacceptable behaviors will also include any conduct that is considered by ZeniMax to be cheating (e.g. match fixing and collusion) or other unsportsmanlike conduct such as use of secondary accounts, intentionally losing and bribery.

VaranisArano · November 2020

JKorr wrote: »

Code of Conduct:
5.2 In relation to online/competitive games, you will not exploit any bug, or abuse any game system (such as the scoring or award systems) in a ZeniMax game, Service, forum, or other games or services provided by ZeniMax. You will not intentionally use or share any bug found within any ZeniMax Game, real or fictitious, regardless of whether or not it grants an unfair advantage. You will not directly or indirectly communicate the existence of any such bug to any other user of the ZeniMax Service (in game or on a ZeniMax Service). Report bugs and exploits using the in-game portal or via help.elderscrollsonline.com. Unacceptable behaviors will also include any conduct that is considered by ZeniMax to be cheating (e.g. match fixing and collusion) or other unsportsmanlike conduct such as use of secondary accounts, intentionally losing and bribery.

Good call! The sort of AP farming that happens when you farm your friends at a back keep or resource is A) Collusion by definition, B.) most definitely involves intentionally losing, and C) distinctly unsportsmanlike behavior on the part of whoever's doing the farming.

Env_t · November 2020

okay so no official statement about ap feeding - only some twitsted worlds that you can interper as you want, i will abuse it now