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Would a macro using 1 key to do 3-5 LAs sequentially be against TOS & potentially get you banned?
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Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »daemondamian wrote: »TLDR: can I use a macro for hitting the same key several times in a row for solo PVE as a werewolf to help me avoid pain problems from doing it normally?
I have 2 werewolf alt characters that recently I've been using to solo farm Blackheart Haven for an Undaunted Unweaver Lightning Staff for another alt that I'm making a heavy staff attack build for.
I have adhesive capsulitis (frozen shoulder) in my left shoulder & pain problems with my right shoulder from being in a car accident. Doing certain things makes my right shoulder worse to the point sometimes that normal painkillers & anti-inflammatories don't work & I can't even play the game or do other normal household stuff like dishes.
Repeatedly using the mouse for LAs in werewolf form is one of the things that makes it worse - it's one of the reasons I don't run those alts in WW form much.
I know I can make a key on the keyboard a secondary control for LAs & made 'v' one but it's in too of an awkward position to use normally because then I have to move my hand back up to the movement & 1-5 keys.
If I could use a macro that made hitting one key repeat 3-5 light attacks in a row then possibly I could play more often in WW form & even keep solo farming BH.
But if I could & did make one & used it would I be opening myself up for a ban?
Also I have been running BH with my healer in pug groups when it's been the pledge & have lost count of how many runs I've done. Only one time did someone else get the UU LS but must have wanted to keep it. The only other char I soloed BH on was my magblade using hindrance potion, hist sap etc & it was not something I would ever choose to or possibly could do again.
They say it's against the rules on here. But I've never seen an official post from an ZoS employee confirming that is against the terms of service. I've asked around too. So it doesn't seem like anyone on the board is aware of one either.
I can tell you this: if you do use them (and I'm not recommending that you do) you certainly won't be the only one. Macro use is widespread on this game and many many people use them. I have also yet to meet a single person who was banned for it. So if using macros are against the rules - it seems to me like they are very lax on enforcing it.
You can find a number of sources about macros on this thread, mostly found the last time somebody asked me to produce ZOS quotes.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/460348/macro-in-action/
Thanks to you and Maiwren both for the link. But from what I see - it says macros you create from using gaming mice and controllers aren't against the Terms of Service. Just macros you create from third party software - which I guess in this context means addons.
So it seems to me that macros themselves are basically allowed. Because I don't see a whole lot of difference in creating a macro though addon software or making them through software that comes with your gaming mouse. So this would probably explain why macro use is so widespread on this game and I have yet to see or hear about anyone actually being banned for using them.
If you scroll up a bit from the comment I linked, you will see that is specifically addressed in a prior comment by Molly.
Hm, I see.
So they are saying you can use gaming mouses and keyboards, but not the macro functions that can come with them?1 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »daemondamian wrote: »TLDR: can I use a macro for hitting the same key several times in a row for solo PVE as a werewolf to help me avoid pain problems from doing it normally?
I have 2 werewolf alt characters that recently I've been using to solo farm Blackheart Haven for an Undaunted Unweaver Lightning Staff for another alt that I'm making a heavy staff attack build for.
I have adhesive capsulitis (frozen shoulder) in my left shoulder & pain problems with my right shoulder from being in a car accident. Doing certain things makes my right shoulder worse to the point sometimes that normal painkillers & anti-inflammatories don't work & I can't even play the game or do other normal household stuff like dishes.
Repeatedly using the mouse for LAs in werewolf form is one of the things that makes it worse - it's one of the reasons I don't run those alts in WW form much.
I know I can make a key on the keyboard a secondary control for LAs & made 'v' one but it's in too of an awkward position to use normally because then I have to move my hand back up to the movement & 1-5 keys.
If I could use a macro that made hitting one key repeat 3-5 light attacks in a row then possibly I could play more often in WW form & even keep solo farming BH.
But if I could & did make one & used it would I be opening myself up for a ban?
Also I have been running BH with my healer in pug groups when it's been the pledge & have lost count of how many runs I've done. Only one time did someone else get the UU LS but must have wanted to keep it. The only other char I soloed BH on was my magblade using hindrance potion, hist sap etc & it was not something I would ever choose to or possibly could do again.
They say it's against the rules on here. But I've never seen an official post from an ZoS employee confirming that is against the terms of service. I've asked around too. So it doesn't seem like anyone on the board is aware of one either.
I can tell you this: if you do use them (and I'm not recommending that you do) you certainly won't be the only one. Macro use is widespread on this game and many many people use them. I have also yet to meet a single person who was banned for it. So if using macros are against the rules - it seems to me like they are very lax on enforcing it.
You can find a number of sources about macros on this thread, mostly found the last time somebody asked me to produce ZOS quotes.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/460348/macro-in-action/
Thanks to you and Maiwren both for the link. But from what I see - it says macros you create from using gaming mice and controllers aren't against the Terms of Service. Just macros you create from third party software - which I guess in this context means addons.
So it seems to me that macros themselves are basically allowed. Because I don't see a whole lot of difference in creating a macro though addon software or making them through software that comes with your gaming mouse. So this would probably explain why macro use is so widespread on this game and I have yet to see or hear about anyone actually being banned for using them.
If you scroll up a bit from the comment I linked, you will see that is specifically addressed in a prior comment by Molly.
Hm, I see.
So they are saying you can use gaming mouses and keyboards, but not the macro functions that can come with them?
Pretty much. How and if that is policed is another discussion, but regardless it is something we have all agreed to.
Edited by mairwen85 on August 24, 2020 7:51AM1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »daemondamian wrote: »TLDR: can I use a macro for hitting the same key several times in a row for solo PVE as a werewolf to help me avoid pain problems from doing it normally?
I have 2 werewolf alt characters that recently I've been using to solo farm Blackheart Haven for an Undaunted Unweaver Lightning Staff for another alt that I'm making a heavy staff attack build for.
I have adhesive capsulitis (frozen shoulder) in my left shoulder & pain problems with my right shoulder from being in a car accident. Doing certain things makes my right shoulder worse to the point sometimes that normal painkillers & anti-inflammatories don't work & I can't even play the game or do other normal household stuff like dishes.
Repeatedly using the mouse for LAs in werewolf form is one of the things that makes it worse - it's one of the reasons I don't run those alts in WW form much.
I know I can make a key on the keyboard a secondary control for LAs & made 'v' one but it's in too of an awkward position to use normally because then I have to move my hand back up to the movement & 1-5 keys.
If I could use a macro that made hitting one key repeat 3-5 light attacks in a row then possibly I could play more often in WW form & even keep solo farming BH.
But if I could & did make one & used it would I be opening myself up for a ban?
Also I have been running BH with my healer in pug groups when it's been the pledge & have lost count of how many runs I've done. Only one time did someone else get the UU LS but must have wanted to keep it. The only other char I soloed BH on was my magblade using hindrance potion, hist sap etc & it was not something I would ever choose to or possibly could do again.
They say it's against the rules on here. But I've never seen an official post from an ZoS employee confirming that is against the terms of service. I've asked around too. So it doesn't seem like anyone on the board is aware of one either.
I can tell you this: if you do use them (and I'm not recommending that you do) you certainly won't be the only one. Macro use is widespread on this game and many many people use them. I have also yet to meet a single person who was banned for it. So if using macros are against the rules - it seems to me like they are very lax on enforcing it.
You can find a number of sources about macros on this thread, mostly found the last time somebody asked me to produce ZOS quotes.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/460348/macro-in-action/
Thanks to you and Maiwren both for the link. But from what I see - it says macros you create from using gaming mice and controllers aren't against the Terms of Service. Just macros you create from third party software - which I guess in this context means addons.
So it seems to me that macros themselves are basically allowed. Because I don't see a whole lot of difference in creating a macro though addon software or making them through software that comes with your gaming mouse. So this would probably explain why macro use is so widespread on this game and I have yet to see or hear about anyone actually being banned for using them.
The software for mice and keyboards where macros can be created is third party software and as such is in violation of the ToS. Zos does not make an exception for them.
So why does ZoS single out gaming keyboards and mice in that comment Maiwren linked as being ok to use in the context of macros?
A lot of gaming mouses these days have extensive software to create macros
The hardware is fine, for binding etc, but not not for automation of control or input. Like I said, scroll up a bit.
I see the post you are talking about now. I usually don't read a whole thread before I respond so my responses come in order.
I think I finally get what you're/they're saying now though. Just out of curiosity, do you know of a single person who has ever banned or even disciplined for using macros on this game?0 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »daemondamian wrote: »TLDR: can I use a macro for hitting the same key several times in a row for solo PVE as a werewolf to help me avoid pain problems from doing it normally?
I have 2 werewolf alt characters that recently I've been using to solo farm Blackheart Haven for an Undaunted Unweaver Lightning Staff for another alt that I'm making a heavy staff attack build for.
I have adhesive capsulitis (frozen shoulder) in my left shoulder & pain problems with my right shoulder from being in a car accident. Doing certain things makes my right shoulder worse to the point sometimes that normal painkillers & anti-inflammatories don't work & I can't even play the game or do other normal household stuff like dishes.
Repeatedly using the mouse for LAs in werewolf form is one of the things that makes it worse - it's one of the reasons I don't run those alts in WW form much.
I know I can make a key on the keyboard a secondary control for LAs & made 'v' one but it's in too of an awkward position to use normally because then I have to move my hand back up to the movement & 1-5 keys.
If I could use a macro that made hitting one key repeat 3-5 light attacks in a row then possibly I could play more often in WW form & even keep solo farming BH.
But if I could & did make one & used it would I be opening myself up for a ban?
Also I have been running BH with my healer in pug groups when it's been the pledge & have lost count of how many runs I've done. Only one time did someone else get the UU LS but must have wanted to keep it. The only other char I soloed BH on was my magblade using hindrance potion, hist sap etc & it was not something I would ever choose to or possibly could do again.
They say it's against the rules on here. But I've never seen an official post from an ZoS employee confirming that is against the terms of service. I've asked around too. So it doesn't seem like anyone on the board is aware of one either.
I can tell you this: if you do use them (and I'm not recommending that you do) you certainly won't be the only one. Macro use is widespread on this game and many many people use them. I have also yet to meet a single person who was banned for it. So if using macros are against the rules - it seems to me like they are very lax on enforcing it.
You can find a number of sources about macros on this thread, mostly found the last time somebody asked me to produce ZOS quotes.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/460348/macro-in-action/
Thanks to you and Maiwren both for the link. But from what I see - it says macros you create from using gaming mice and controllers aren't against the Terms of Service. Just macros you create from third party software - which I guess in this context means addons.
So it seems to me that macros themselves are basically allowed. Because I don't see a whole lot of difference in creating a macro though addon software or making them through software that comes with your gaming mouse. So this would probably explain why macro use is so widespread on this game and I have yet to see or hear about anyone actually being banned for using them.
The software for mice and keyboards where macros can be created is third party software and as such is in violation of the ToS. Zos does not make an exception for them.
So why does ZoS single out gaming keyboards and mice in that comment Maiwren linked as being ok to use in the context of macros?
A lot of gaming mouses these days have extensive software to create macros
The hardware is fine, for binding etc, but not not for automation of control or input. Like I said, scroll up a bit.
I see the post you are talking about now. I usually don't read a whole thread before I respond so my responses come in order.
I think I finally get what you're/they're saying now though. Just out of curiosity, do you know of a single person who has ever banned or even disciplined for using macros on this game?
Can't say that I do, but I don't know anyone who admits to macro-ing either. I have heard of people on console using adapters to script button presses, but only from rumour, and my only frame of reference on PC for the same is people bemoaning a loss in pvp or throwing shade on streamers.
I have no doubt it happens though, but I'm guessing whatever the case its between the player and ZOS.
Edited by mairwen85 on August 24, 2020 7:58AM1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Thanks to you and Maiwren both for the link. But from what I see - it says macros you create from using gaming mice and controllers aren't against the Terms of Service. Just macros you create from third party software - which I guess in this context means addons.
So it seems to me that macros themselves are basically allowed. Because I don't see a whole lot of difference in creating a macro though addon software or making them through software that comes with your gaming mouse. So this would probably explain why macro use is so widespread on this game and I have yet to see or hear about anyone actually being banned for using them.
It's the other way around.
The software that's used for setting up macros on your gaming mouse is 3rd party software - i.e. not coming from ZOS.
Add-ons are more or less ZOS software - they're just scripts using ZOS' API. They control what you can and cannot do - and if it goes too far, they switch off the command, like they did with Miat's "alert you to attacks before they happen" add-on. And afaik you can't create a macro that does auto-attacks for you, with ZOS' scripting API.
I get it now. I think anyway. When I read them saying it was fine to use gaming keyboards and mouses in the context of macros I just assumed that meant you could use all the software and functions that went along with it as well.0 -
Skafloc✭✭✭Hi,
Unfortuantely this game is not as inclusive as it should be - I am disabled and have basically one "good arm and hand" - but even they arm on there way out. My left arm, hand and shoulder are pretty useless these days and its increasingly difficult for me to play due to pain so my gaming has dropped from all day long sessions to 15-30 mins gently play without a lot of key bashing and my options for continuing to play and subscribe are becoming less. Using macros and other gaiming devices would help but might result in a ban so I'm caught between a rock and a hard place - guess I'll have to give up soon after playing since the start and just get used to staring out the window and watching the world go by LOL2 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Hi,
Unfortuantely this game is not as inclusive as it should be - I am disabled and have basically one "good arm and hand" - but even they arm on there way out. My left arm, hand and shoulder are pretty useless these days and its increasingly difficult for me to play due to pain so my gaming has dropped from all day long sessions to 15-30 mins gently play without a lot of key bashing and my options for continuing to play and subscribe are becoming less. Using macros and other gaiming devices would help but might result in a ban so I'm caught between a rock and a hard place - guess I'll have to give up soon after playing since the start and just get used to staring out the window and watching the world go by LOL
Unfortunately, that's an industry problem, but several big names are making efforts to improve things.
https://www.xbox.com/en-GB/accessories/controllers/xbox-adaptive-controller
That controller is multi-platform, and there are several companies developing adapters and components for it, like logitec.
https://www.logitechg.com/en-gb/products/gamepads/adaptive-gaming-kit-accessories.html
Additionally, there are also dedicated charities for inclusive and accessible controller design.
https://www.specialeffect.org.uk/
In an ideal world, every developer would have the forethought to build support into their games. We're not there yet, but as I said, things are changing rapidly.
Edited by mairwen85 on August 24, 2020 8:51AM3 -
Herr_Flocke✭✭✭
Pretty much. How and if that is policed is another discussion, but regardless it is something we have all agreed to.
even ZOS TOS can't regulate all use cases, so I assume the TOS is to be read with a bit of common sense in mind.
For example, every time you press a key on the keyboard you actually use quite a bit of third party software by default. Starting with the software that's actually build in your hardware (or how do you think features like 10key rollover are implemented ?) to various layers in the OS. All before ZOS software even recognizes a keyboard event. So even the apparently simple term 'third party software' is ambiguous at best.
As for macros, I think it really depends on the complexity of the macro. Noone in their right mind would complain about using 'third party' mouse software to remap some keys to the number pad on a gaming mouse, if even ZOS native software allows the remapping of functions to standard mouse keys, or remapping on a game controller etc. pp. ...
Whole different ball game would be the automatisation of rather complex ingame tasks without the need to actually interact with the game, or if the macro was able to react to events (e.g. other key inputs). And that's usually where the line is drawn between accepted and sanctionable use of macros in other games. I don't see that ZOS is handling this any different.
1 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Herr_Flocke wrote: »
Pretty much. How and if that is policed is another discussion, but regardless it is something we have all agreed to.
even ZOS TOS can't regulate all use cases, so I assume the TOS is to be read with a bit of common sense in mind.
For example, every time you press a key on the keyboard you actually use quite a bit of third party software by default. Starting with the software that's actually build in your hardware (or how do you think features like 10key rollover are implemented ?) to various layers in the OS. All before ZOS software even recognizes a keyboard event. So even the apparently simple term 'third party software' is ambiguous at best.
As for macros, I think it really depends on the complexity of the macro. Noone in their right mind would complain about using 'third party' mouse software to remap some keys to the number pad on a gaming mouse, if even ZOS native software allows the remapping of functions to standard mouse keys, or remapping on a game controller etc. pp. ...
Whole different ball game would be the automatisation of rather complex ingame tasks without the need to actually interact with the game, or if the macro was able to react to events (e.g. other key inputs). And that's usually where the line is drawn between accepted and sanctionable use of macros in other games. I don't see that ZOS is handling this any different.
Indeed. As already discussed, that is mentioned and addressed in an old thread already linked in this conversation on the previous page. You are replying to a comment made after that was spoken about having come to the same conclusion you are elaborating on.
0 -
Ruder✭✭✭✭Don't listen to the moralists here,
there is already an addon that makes your werewolf light attack automatically, google it.2 -
Herr_Flocke✭✭✭Don't listen to the moralists here,
there is already an addon that makes your werewolf light attack automatically, google it.
hmm... I am not a moralist, I just argue to use some common sense when it comes to the use of macros and mouse software. If your macro lets you run a few thieving rounds in Rawl'ka on a keypress it's probably not ok, if it just saves you a few key presses... I don't think anyone really cares, as long as it doesn't give you an unfair advantage (and usually it doesn't anyway).
But to assume something is ok, just because there is software out there that does this, is far from common sense. There's a lot of software in the wild that does all kind of things that could get you banned, if ZOS cared to enforce its TOS.
Legit addons are those that use the API functions, not those messing with the data stream
0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »daemondamian wrote: »TLDR: can I use a macro for hitting the same key several times in a row for solo PVE as a werewolf to help me avoid pain problems from doing it normally?
I have 2 werewolf alt characters that recently I've been using to solo farm Blackheart Haven for an Undaunted Unweaver Lightning Staff for another alt that I'm making a heavy staff attack build for.
I have adhesive capsulitis (frozen shoulder) in my left shoulder & pain problems with my right shoulder from being in a car accident. Doing certain things makes my right shoulder worse to the point sometimes that normal painkillers & anti-inflammatories don't work & I can't even play the game or do other normal household stuff like dishes.
Repeatedly using the mouse for LAs in werewolf form is one of the things that makes it worse - it's one of the reasons I don't run those alts in WW form much.
I know I can make a key on the keyboard a secondary control for LAs & made 'v' one but it's in too of an awkward position to use normally because then I have to move my hand back up to the movement & 1-5 keys.
If I could use a macro that made hitting one key repeat 3-5 light attacks in a row then possibly I could play more often in WW form & even keep solo farming BH.
But if I could & did make one & used it would I be opening myself up for a ban?
Also I have been running BH with my healer in pug groups when it's been the pledge & have lost count of how many runs I've done. Only one time did someone else get the UU LS but must have wanted to keep it. The only other char I soloed BH on was my magblade using hindrance potion, hist sap etc & it was not something I would ever choose to or possibly could do again.
They say it's against the rules on here. But I've never seen an official post from an ZoS employee confirming that is against the terms of service. I've asked around too. So it doesn't seem like anyone on the board is aware of one either.
I can tell you this: if you do use them (and I'm not recommending that you do) you certainly won't be the only one. Macro use is widespread on this game and many many people use them. I have also yet to meet a single person who was banned for it. So if using macros are against the rules - it seems to me like they are very lax on enforcing it.
You can find a number of sources about macros on this thread, mostly found the last time somebody asked me to produce ZOS quotes.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/460348/macro-in-action/
Thanks to you and Maiwren both for the link. But from what I see - it says macros you create from using gaming mice and controllers aren't against the Terms of Service. Just macros you create from third party software - which I guess in this context means addons.
So it seems to me that macros themselves are basically allowed. Because I don't see a whole lot of difference in creating a macro though addon software or making them through software that comes with your gaming mouse. So this would probably explain why macro use is so widespread on this game and I have yet to see or hear about anyone actually being banned for using them.
As pointed out by others here, ZOS_MollyH specifically addresses using the keyboard software to macro. It's not allowed.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1826830/#Comment_1826830
That quote was in the thread I linked, by the way. Apparently, I need to collect these quotes in a single place for quicker, easier reading.2 -
daemondamian✭✭✭✭
Thanks everybody for your replies.
Footpedals sounds great except during the colder months I use a floor mat heater under my desk as it helps keep heating costs down & my feet warm.Hi,
Unfortuantely this game is not as inclusive as it should be - I am disabled and have basically one "good arm and hand" - but even they arm on there way out. My left arm, hand and shoulder are pretty useless these days and its increasingly difficult for me to play due to pain so my gaming has dropped from all day long sessions to 15-30 mins gently play without a lot of key bashing and my options for continuing to play and subscribe are becoming less. Using macros and other gaiming devices would help but might result in a ban so I'm caught between a rock and a hard place - guess I'll have to give up soon after playing since the start and just get used to staring out the window and watching the world go by LOL
Thanks for sharing your experience. I’m sorry to hear about your difficulties - it must super frustrating.
Thanks for sharing your experience, I have definitely have better days too where I can play werewolf for a short time but if I overdo it on those days then it invariably leads to bad days some where even doing writs or surveys is too much.Don’t have frozen shoulder but arthritis is a PIA in the hands. You have my sympathy. For me light attacking is still hard to consistently do on a controller without pain. Some days are better than others.
No real suggestion but in my experience playing a WW is too much for me personally due to the amount light attacks needed to play it effectively. Maybe play a Magplar until if or when they change jabs skill with the upcoming AOE test. Of a heavy attack Magsocr build to lessen the need to light attack as much.
God, I wish ZOS would allow me to change/assign buttons in game. Console player.
Good luck be safe and have pain free fun
I also struggle on my other alts & main with coordinating light attacks & interweaving & don’t do it that often which is partly why I was looking into getting the UU staff for my Magdk as I thought it would make him easier to play as a heavy attack build, & why I generally only use my magplar healer In group content as I don’t have to worry about
Can you not rebind light attacks specifically on your WW character (keybinds are per character)? There are also controller options:
https://scufgaming.com/
Yes, I have done that in the past – allocating ‘v’ to secondary attack. I could reallocate to my down arrow which is better except than I lose aim, zoom & blocking with my right hand being at the keyboard & not on my mouse.
That is an awesome suggestion except than I couldn’t zoom in or out with the wheel & most of up my up, down etc arrow keys are assigned to addons.lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »Have you tried binding light attacks to the mouse wheel? Depending on your injury, that might be way less painful than clicking.
I have because I have a usb xbox controller that I use for certain other games but it lacked the finer control & ease of configuration & customization a keyboard & mouse provides. For other simpler games it’s great but for ESO it’s so ‘clunky’ like using a typewriter to write out an encyclopedia versus using word processing software on a pc & a printer.Have you tried playing with a controller? Shouldnt need to move your shoulders at all and holding on to the controller will stabilize your shoulder a bit once you find a comfortable position.
You want to then get a comfortable reclining chair you can rest your elbows on....and a 60 inch tv .....just in case it will help......
As the consensus was/is that creating or using a macro that would automatically light attack for a set amount of times would be against ToS & risky I decided not to do that.
I ended up using UU in other slots & wasn’t happy with the results on my magdk *but* that’s probably because he’s actually my one tank I made with tank CP & attributes (my other magdk is a real one that’s easy to play despite not being a heavy attack build).
So for solo pve I re-equipped him with some stamdk , bow & 2handed & briarheart body with fighter abilities, leeching plate & thrassian & now he’s super easy to play.
Of my 2 werewolves I’ve left my stamward with briarheart & aegis caller & still have werewolf ult slotted even though I don’t use it much as it provides a good passive benefit
On my stamblade werewolf I tried a combination of UU & UI to increase his light & heavy attacks but he was even worse than before – hitting like a super squishy wet noodle so I switched him back to briarheart, keeping UU as the other set along with molga kena & went from DW to 2H.
Now he’s super easy & effective to play as werewolf & in human form - the brawler shield is great, briarheart helps with heals & the extra magic from UU helps with the cost of my magicka abilities.
I think it absolutely shows that ZOS has no idea why some people use heavy attack builds with the changes they made to UU & UI; having to run a dungeon multiple times which requires being a werewolf to complete it, just to get a set item to actually make it easier to play certain easy builds due to reasons such as physical impairments or pain issues is sad.
At least Arx Corinium is a far easier & quicker dungeon to complete.
I’ve also realised holding down the mouse button or a key for extended periods of time as required in heavy attack builds may be easier but can be just as bad as builds requiring multiple or coordinated interweaving light attacks.
I love playing with 2H on my stamina alts but it’s more intensive than playing with my DW stam chars or magicka chars & something I have to limit.
Thanks again for all the replies & suggestions 😊
0 -
ChaosWotan✭✭✭✭✭If others have not mentioned it already: set your macro to not have animation cancelling when LA. It will then look like a non-macro attack, and there will be no reason to ban it either, since the time needed to execute the LA is the same as doing it manually.0
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agegarton✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The part of the Terms of Service that governs this is section 9, "Your use of the Services". The specific paragraph is this:
You agree not to use any hardware or software or any other method of support that is not authorized by ZeniMax or that may in any way influence or advantage Your playing abilities, or influence or advantage Your access to or receipt, play or use of the Services. Third party tools, the use of ‘bots’, “speed hacks”, “deep-link”, “page-scrape”, “robot”, “spider”, algorithm or other programs that copy or monitor any part of the Services (including, but not limited to, the Game(s) and/or forums), software that transmits, manipulates, or distributes (including, but are limited to, “mirroring”) the data stream or any aspect of the Services to another computer, server websites or other publication or distribution media, or software that permits You to access, receive, play or use Services without human input are examples of methods not authorized by ZeniMax.
I have made bold the bit that "might" cover a macro keyboard. I'd personally say that this is less than crystal clear, especially as the majority of the paragraph is clearly aimed at "bot"-type activity as opposed to a single player using his/her keyboard as it was intended. However, I would er on the side of caution and not use macros.
I wonder if @ZOS_GinaBruno and/or @ZOS_JessicaFolsom could provide a little bit of clarity? Is the above para intended to encompass an individual player using his keyboard with a macro function as it was intended, making that a breach of the ToS? Would be helpful to be definitive.
0 -
Jayman1000✭✭✭✭✭
✭You can get pedal controllers, the likes of which are used in space or flight games for example to offer additional control. It may be that it would be possible to assign the pedal to the key that the LA ability in game is bound to.
I know it sounds clunky and it probably would be, but anything can be learned and it sounds like you are in a position where your options are limited so you may have to think outside the box.
Contrast this with the fact that there are people who have learned to type on a keyboard with their toes, faster than the average person can, or play flutes or other instruments; all of which I would figure is far more difficult than using a pedal type of button for LA attack.1 -
Sgrug✭✭✭✭✭daemondamian wrote: »TLDR: can I use a macro for hitting the same key several times in a row for solo PVE as a werewolf to help me avoid pain problems from doing it normally?
I have 2 werewolf alt characters that recently I've been using to solo farm Blackheart Haven for an Undaunted Unweaver Lightning Staff for another alt that I'm making a heavy staff attack build for.
I have adhesive capsulitis (frozen shoulder) in my left shoulder & pain problems with my right shoulder from being in a car accident. Doing certain things makes my right shoulder worse to the point sometimes that normal painkillers & anti-inflammatories don't work & I can't even play the game or do other normal household stuff like dishes.
Repeatedly using the mouse for LAs in werewolf form is one of the things that makes it worse - it's one of the reasons I don't run those alts in WW form much.
I know I can make a key on the keyboard a secondary control for LAs & made 'v' one but it's in too of an awkward position to use normally because then I have to move my hand back up to the movement & 1-5 keys.
If I could use a macro that made hitting one key repeat 3-5 light attacks in a row then possibly I could play more often in WW form & even keep solo farming BH.
But if I could & did make one & used it would I be opening myself up for a ban?
Also I have been running BH with my healer in pug groups when it's been the pledge & have lost count of how many runs I've done. Only one time did someone else get the UU LS but must have wanted to keep it. The only other char I soloed BH on was my magblade using hindrance potion, hist sap etc & it was not something I would ever choose to or possibly could do again.
They say it's against the rules on here. But I've never seen an official post from an ZoS employee confirming that is against the terms of service. I've asked around too. So it doesn't seem like anyone on the board is aware of one either.
I can tell you this: if you do use them (and I'm not recommending that you do) you certainly won't be the only one. Macro use is widespread on this game and many many people use them. I have also yet to meet a single person who was banned for it. So if using macros are against the rules - it seems to me like they are very lax on enforcing it.
This
They are against the rules, they are also used ubiquitously ubiquitously in PVP and I have never known anyone to have been made to account for the use of them. Bots and cheats yes but never the use of macros.
Everyone denies using them of course, easy enough though to know when someone does use a macro consistently.Edited by Sgrug on September 15, 2020 11:45AM2 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The part of the Terms of Service that governs this is section 9, "Your use of the Services". The specific paragraph is this:
You agree not to use any hardware or software or any other method of support that is not authorized by ZeniMax or that may in any way influence or advantage Your playing abilities, or influence or advantage Your access to or receipt, play or use of the Services. Third party tools, the use of ‘bots’, “speed hacks”, “deep-link”, “page-scrape”, “robot”, “spider”, algorithm or other programs that copy or monitor any part of the Services (including, but not limited to, the Game(s) and/or forums), software that transmits, manipulates, or distributes (including, but are limited to, “mirroring”) the data stream or any aspect of the Services to another computer, server websites or other publication or distribution media, or software that permits You to access, receive, play or use Services without human input are examples of methods not authorized by ZeniMax.
I have made bold the bit that "might" cover a macro keyboard. I'd personally say that this is less than crystal clear, especially as the majority of the paragraph is clearly aimed at "bot"-type activity as opposed to a single player using his/her keyboard as it was intended. However, I would er on the side of caution and not use macros.
I wonder if ZOS_GinaBruno and/or ZOS_JessicaFolsom could provide a little bit of clarity? Is the above para intended to encompass an individual player using his keyboard with a macro function as it was intended, making that a breach of the ToS? Would be helpful to be definitive.
We already covered this in the earlier conversation. This thread discusses it, particularly this comment: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1826830/#Comment_1826830
Yes, it does apply.1 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭daemondamian wrote: »TLDR: can I use a macro for hitting the same key several times in a row for solo PVE as a werewolf to help me avoid pain problems from doing it normally?
I have 2 werewolf alt characters that recently I've been using to solo farm Blackheart Haven for an Undaunted Unweaver Lightning Staff for another alt that I'm making a heavy staff attack build for.
I have adhesive capsulitis (frozen shoulder) in my left shoulder & pain problems with my right shoulder from being in a car accident. Doing certain things makes my right shoulder worse to the point sometimes that normal painkillers & anti-inflammatories don't work & I can't even play the game or do other normal household stuff like dishes.
Repeatedly using the mouse for LAs in werewolf form is one of the things that makes it worse - it's one of the reasons I don't run those alts in WW form much.
I know I can make a key on the keyboard a secondary control for LAs & made 'v' one but it's in too of an awkward position to use normally because then I have to move my hand back up to the movement & 1-5 keys.
If I could use a macro that made hitting one key repeat 3-5 light attacks in a row then possibly I could play more often in WW form & even keep solo farming BH.
But if I could & did make one & used it would I be opening myself up for a ban?
Also I have been running BH with my healer in pug groups when it's been the pledge & have lost count of how many runs I've done. Only one time did someone else get the UU LS but must have wanted to keep it. The only other char I soloed BH on was my magblade using hindrance potion, hist sap etc & it was not something I would ever choose to or possibly could do again.
They say it's against the rules on here. But I've never seen an official post from an ZoS employee confirming that is against the terms of service. I've asked around too. So it doesn't seem like anyone on the board is aware of one either.
I can tell you this: if you do use them (and I'm not recommending that you do) you certainly won't be the only one. Macro use is widespread on this game and many many people use them. I have also yet to meet a single person who was banned for it. So if using macros are against the rules - it seems to me like they are very lax on enforcing it.
This
They are against the rules, they are also used ubiquitously ubiquitously in PVP and I have never known anyone to have been made to account for the use of them. Bots and cheats yes but never the use of macros.
Everyone denies using them of course, easy enough though to know when someone does use a macro consistently.
I wonder, though, exactly what would you say are the sure-fire telltale signs of a macro?1 -
BeamsForDemacia✭✭✭macro use is widespread ? somehow i dont know ppl in pve endgame that use themIR/GH/TTT/GS [MEDUSA]0
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Sgrug✭✭✭✭✭daemondamian wrote: »TLDR: can I use a macro for hitting the same key several times in a row for solo PVE as a werewolf to help me avoid pain problems from doing it normally?
I have 2 werewolf alt characters that recently I've been using to solo farm Blackheart Haven for an Undaunted Unweaver Lightning Staff for another alt that I'm making a heavy staff attack build for.
I have adhesive capsulitis (frozen shoulder) in my left shoulder & pain problems with my right shoulder from being in a car accident. Doing certain things makes my right shoulder worse to the point sometimes that normal painkillers & anti-inflammatories don't work & I can't even play the game or do other normal household stuff like dishes.
Repeatedly using the mouse for LAs in werewolf form is one of the things that makes it worse - it's one of the reasons I don't run those alts in WW form much.
I know I can make a key on the keyboard a secondary control for LAs & made 'v' one but it's in too of an awkward position to use normally because then I have to move my hand back up to the movement & 1-5 keys.
If I could use a macro that made hitting one key repeat 3-5 light attacks in a row then possibly I could play more often in WW form & even keep solo farming BH.
But if I could & did make one & used it would I be opening myself up for a ban?
Also I have been running BH with my healer in pug groups when it's been the pledge & have lost count of how many runs I've done. Only one time did someone else get the UU LS but must have wanted to keep it. The only other char I soloed BH on was my magblade using hindrance potion, hist sap etc & it was not something I would ever choose to or possibly could do again.
They say it's against the rules on here. But I've never seen an official post from an ZoS employee confirming that is against the terms of service. I've asked around too. So it doesn't seem like anyone on the board is aware of one either.
I can tell you this: if you do use them (and I'm not recommending that you do) you certainly won't be the only one. Macro use is widespread on this game and many many people use them. I have also yet to meet a single person who was banned for it. So if using macros are against the rules - it seems to me like they are very lax on enforcing it.
This
They are against the rules, they are also used ubiquitously ubiquitously in PVP and I have never known anyone to have been made to account for the use of them. Bots and cheats yes but never the use of macros.
Everyone denies using them of course, easy enough though to know when someone does use a macro consistently.
I wonder, though, exactly what would you say are the sure-fire telltale signs of a macro?
Does it matter? We would just get a ton of trolls saying it is all skill. Besides obviously most people spend hours and hours and hours doing the same combinations over and over and over so that when them do them in real PvP they can repeat them with machine precision and timing.
I guess we have no bots either? Just a lot of players walking around mindlessly who never respond to you farming nodes 8 to 15 or more hours in the day , nearly every day, it is just how they play I guess?1 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭daemondamian wrote: »TLDR: can I use a macro for hitting the same key several times in a row for solo PVE as a werewolf to help me avoid pain problems from doing it normally?
I have 2 werewolf alt characters that recently I've been using to solo farm Blackheart Haven for an Undaunted Unweaver Lightning Staff for another alt that I'm making a heavy staff attack build for.
I have adhesive capsulitis (frozen shoulder) in my left shoulder & pain problems with my right shoulder from being in a car accident. Doing certain things makes my right shoulder worse to the point sometimes that normal painkillers & anti-inflammatories don't work & I can't even play the game or do other normal household stuff like dishes.
Repeatedly using the mouse for LAs in werewolf form is one of the things that makes it worse - it's one of the reasons I don't run those alts in WW form much.
I know I can make a key on the keyboard a secondary control for LAs & made 'v' one but it's in too of an awkward position to use normally because then I have to move my hand back up to the movement & 1-5 keys.
If I could use a macro that made hitting one key repeat 3-5 light attacks in a row then possibly I could play more often in WW form & even keep solo farming BH.
But if I could & did make one & used it would I be opening myself up for a ban?
Also I have been running BH with my healer in pug groups when it's been the pledge & have lost count of how many runs I've done. Only one time did someone else get the UU LS but must have wanted to keep it. The only other char I soloed BH on was my magblade using hindrance potion, hist sap etc & it was not something I would ever choose to or possibly could do again.
They say it's against the rules on here. But I've never seen an official post from an ZoS employee confirming that is against the terms of service. I've asked around too. So it doesn't seem like anyone on the board is aware of one either.
I can tell you this: if you do use them (and I'm not recommending that you do) you certainly won't be the only one. Macro use is widespread on this game and many many people use them. I have also yet to meet a single person who was banned for it. So if using macros are against the rules - it seems to me like they are very lax on enforcing it.
This
They are against the rules, they are also used ubiquitously ubiquitously in PVP and I have never known anyone to have been made to account for the use of them. Bots and cheats yes but never the use of macros.
Everyone denies using them of course, easy enough though to know when someone does use a macro consistently.
I wonder, though, exactly what would you say are the sure-fire telltale signs of a macro?
Does it matter? We would just get a ton of trolls saying it is all skill. Besides obviously most people spend hours and hours and hours doing the same combinations over and over and over so that when them do them in real PvP they can repeat them with machine precision and timing.
I guess we have no bots either? Just a lot of players walking around mindlessly who never respond to you farming nodes 8 to 15 or more hours in the day , nearly every day, it is just how they play I guess?
I don't know if it matters, but if we're making statements about it, then we should at the very least be clarifying them. When you say it's easy enough to spot, frankly I don't care about rebuttals on the point of what players are able to achieve, or how you invalidate your own argument with that statement, I'm only interested in what you are saying is easy enough to spot, and the criteria that you believe makes them more apparent and immediately identifiable over mere 'skill'.1 -
josiahva✭✭✭✭✭
✭If its a shoulder issue...could always use a trackball...I like them a lot better than a mouse myself, you can rest your wrist on the desk and do all controls needed with your thumb and fingers...I haven't used a mouse in 15 years....cant stand the things compared to a good trackball, you give up nothing to use a trackball, except having to hold your arm up to use it and constantly move the mouse around.1 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Against the TOS, Yes. Assuming you stay out of PVP and/or off the PVE leader boards, will anything ever happen? Almost certainly not. It is very difficult to detect something like this on their end unless its over a long period of time, and let's be honest, the in game tickets are flooded with PVPers crying wolf about macros when they just got outplayed. I doubt this would be terribly high on anyones radar. That said, I certainly dont advocate breaking the TOS.0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭daemondamian wrote: »TLDR: can I use a macro for hitting the same key several times in a row for solo PVE as a werewolf to help me avoid pain problems from doing it normally?
I have 2 werewolf alt characters that recently I've been using to solo farm Blackheart Haven for an Undaunted Unweaver Lightning Staff for another alt that I'm making a heavy staff attack build for.
I have adhesive capsulitis (frozen shoulder) in my left shoulder & pain problems with my right shoulder from being in a car accident. Doing certain things makes my right shoulder worse to the point sometimes that normal painkillers & anti-inflammatories don't work & I can't even play the game or do other normal household stuff like dishes.
Repeatedly using the mouse for LAs in werewolf form is one of the things that makes it worse - it's one of the reasons I don't run those alts in WW form much.
I know I can make a key on the keyboard a secondary control for LAs & made 'v' one but it's in too of an awkward position to use normally because then I have to move my hand back up to the movement & 1-5 keys.
If I could use a macro that made hitting one key repeat 3-5 light attacks in a row then possibly I could play more often in WW form & even keep solo farming BH.
But if I could & did make one & used it would I be opening myself up for a ban?
Also I have been running BH with my healer in pug groups when it's been the pledge & have lost count of how many runs I've done. Only one time did someone else get the UU LS but must have wanted to keep it. The only other char I soloed BH on was my magblade using hindrance potion, hist sap etc & it was not something I would ever choose to or possibly could do again.
They say it's against the rules on here. But I've never seen an official post from an ZoS employee confirming that is against the terms of service. I've asked around too. So it doesn't seem like anyone on the board is aware of one either.
I can tell you this: if you do use them (and I'm not recommending that you do) you certainly won't be the only one. Macro use is widespread on this game and many many people use them. I have also yet to meet a single person who was banned for it. So if using macros are against the rules - it seems to me like they are very lax on enforcing it.
This
They are against the rules, they are also used ubiquitously ubiquitously in PVP and I have never known anyone to have been made to account for the use of them. Bots and cheats yes but never the use of macros.
Everyone denies using them of course, easy enough though to know when someone does use a macro consistently.
I wonder, though, exactly what would you say are the sure-fire telltale signs of a macro?
Does it matter? We would just get a ton of trolls saying it is all skill. Besides obviously most people spend hours and hours and hours doing the same combinations over and over and over so that when them do them in real PvP they can repeat them with machine precision and timing.
I guess we have no bots either? Just a lot of players walking around mindlessly who never respond to you farming nodes 8 to 15 or more hours in the day , nearly every day, it is just how they play I guess?
Bots do have obvious tells. Running in straight lines and turning at right angles. Following each other with the sort of precision and coordination my PVP raid leads would kill for. Running to node spawn places in a specific pattern even if someone just looted the nodes in front of them.
So, um, what's the tell-tale signs of macro use in PVP? Apparently I have a much harder time spotting them than I do bots.0 -
ChaosWotan✭✭✭✭✭The purpose of banning macros is to prevent unfair advantage. If you have a physical handicap and you need macros to take you to the same skill level as an average ESO gamer, nobody should object to it. ESO is not esport. So in trials and vet dungeons nobody will report you, though they may claim that macros are the reason you are not as good as the elite playing without them. The same goes for PvP. If you beat everybody and it's discovered you have a macro, expect a ban maybe. But the elite in PvP never or seldom use (complex) macros, since it makes you inflexible, at least in some situations,0
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TineaCruris✭✭✭✭✭Against the TOS or not, a lot of the players that consider themselves top tier use macro mice and a series of macro's. One of the more famous, more vocal streamers and his cabal of followers are the worst offenders.
I don't think macro's are against the TOS considering how many so obviously use them, and it's even members of their stream team doing it.3 -
TineaCruris✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »daemondamian wrote: »TLDR: can I use a macro for hitting the same key several times in a row for solo PVE as a werewolf to help me avoid pain problems from doing it normally?
I have 2 werewolf alt characters that recently I've been using to solo farm Blackheart Haven for an Undaunted Unweaver Lightning Staff for another alt that I'm making a heavy staff attack build for.
I have adhesive capsulitis (frozen shoulder) in my left shoulder & pain problems with my right shoulder from being in a car accident. Doing certain things makes my right shoulder worse to the point sometimes that normal painkillers & anti-inflammatories don't work & I can't even play the game or do other normal household stuff like dishes.
Repeatedly using the mouse for LAs in werewolf form is one of the things that makes it worse - it's one of the reasons I don't run those alts in WW form much.
I know I can make a key on the keyboard a secondary control for LAs & made 'v' one but it's in too of an awkward position to use normally because then I have to move my hand back up to the movement & 1-5 keys.
If I could use a macro that made hitting one key repeat 3-5 light attacks in a row then possibly I could play more often in WW form & even keep solo farming BH.
But if I could & did make one & used it would I be opening myself up for a ban?
Also I have been running BH with my healer in pug groups when it's been the pledge & have lost count of how many runs I've done. Only one time did someone else get the UU LS but must have wanted to keep it. The only other char I soloed BH on was my magblade using hindrance potion, hist sap etc & it was not something I would ever choose to or possibly could do again.
They say it's against the rules on here. But I've never seen an official post from an ZoS employee confirming that is against the terms of service. I've asked around too. So it doesn't seem like anyone on the board is aware of one either.
I can tell you this: if you do use them (and I'm not recommending that you do) you certainly won't be the only one. Macro use is widespread on this game and many many people use them. I have also yet to meet a single person who was banned for it. So if using macros are against the rules - it seems to me like they are very lax on enforcing it.
This
They are against the rules, they are also used ubiquitously ubiquitously in PVP and I have never known anyone to have been made to account for the use of them. Bots and cheats yes but never the use of macros.
Everyone denies using them of course, easy enough though to know when someone does use a macro consistently.
I wonder, though, exactly what would you say are the sure-fire telltale signs of a macro?
Does it matter? We would just get a ton of trolls saying it is all skill. Besides obviously most people spend hours and hours and hours doing the same combinations over and over and over so that when them do them in real PvP they can repeat them with machine precision and timing.
I guess we have no bots either? Just a lot of players walking around mindlessly who never respond to you farming nodes 8 to 15 or more hours in the day , nearly every day, it is just how they play I guess?
Bots do have obvious tells. Running in straight lines and turning at right angles. Following each other with the sort of precision and coordination my PVP raid leads would kill for. Running to node spawn places in a specific pattern even if someone just looted the nodes in front of them.
So, um, what's the tell-tale signs of macro use in PVP? Apparently I have a much harder time spotting them than I do bots.
If you explode as soon as someone touches you, every time, and every time, your death recap is exactly the same skills in the exact same order. You can tell if the opponent utilized 10 skills in less than a second and manages to do it every time, to every opponent exactly the same, every time. That person is pushing two buttons in a combat, not the 10 buttons someone not using macro's is pushing in the same time period.
I'm guessing this (macro's) are having a much heavier load on the server than aoe's.Edited by TineaCruris on September 16, 2020 12:50AM3 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »daemondamian wrote: »TLDR: can I use a macro for hitting the same key several times in a row for solo PVE as a werewolf to help me avoid pain problems from doing it normally?
I have 2 werewolf alt characters that recently I've been using to solo farm Blackheart Haven for an Undaunted Unweaver Lightning Staff for another alt that I'm making a heavy staff attack build for.
I have adhesive capsulitis (frozen shoulder) in my left shoulder & pain problems with my right shoulder from being in a car accident. Doing certain things makes my right shoulder worse to the point sometimes that normal painkillers & anti-inflammatories don't work & I can't even play the game or do other normal household stuff like dishes.
Repeatedly using the mouse for LAs in werewolf form is one of the things that makes it worse - it's one of the reasons I don't run those alts in WW form much.
I know I can make a key on the keyboard a secondary control for LAs & made 'v' one but it's in too of an awkward position to use normally because then I have to move my hand back up to the movement & 1-5 keys.
If I could use a macro that made hitting one key repeat 3-5 light attacks in a row then possibly I could play more often in WW form & even keep solo farming BH.
But if I could & did make one & used it would I be opening myself up for a ban?
Also I have been running BH with my healer in pug groups when it's been the pledge & have lost count of how many runs I've done. Only one time did someone else get the UU LS but must have wanted to keep it. The only other char I soloed BH on was my magblade using hindrance potion, hist sap etc & it was not something I would ever choose to or possibly could do again.
They say it's against the rules on here. But I've never seen an official post from an ZoS employee confirming that is against the terms of service. I've asked around too. So it doesn't seem like anyone on the board is aware of one either.
I can tell you this: if you do use them (and I'm not recommending that you do) you certainly won't be the only one. Macro use is widespread on this game and many many people use them. I have also yet to meet a single person who was banned for it. So if using macros are against the rules - it seems to me like they are very lax on enforcing it.
You can find a number of sources about macros on this thread, mostly found the last time somebody asked me to produce ZOS quotes.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/460348/macro-in-action/
Thanks to you and Maiwren both for the link. But from what I see - it says macros you create from using gaming mice and controllers aren't against the Terms of Service. Just macros you create from third party software - which I guess in this context means addons.
So it seems to me that macros themselves are basically allowed. Because I don't see a whole lot of difference in creating a macro though addon software or making them through software that comes with your gaming mouse. So this would probably explain why macro use is so widespread on this game and I have yet to see or hear about anyone actually being banned for using them.
The software for mice and keyboards where macros can be created is third party software and as such is in violation of the ToS. Zos does not make an exception for them.
So why does ZoS single out gaming keyboards and mice in that comment Maiwren linked as being ok to use in the context of macros?
A lot of gaming mouses these days have extensive software to create macros
Zos does not permit the use of macros in combat, period. It is irrelevant what 3rd party application is used to create the macro.
The issue is how a player chooses to use the software provided, not that a mouse comes with basic software for creating a macro.3