Stonehorn is huge nerf to Magblades

MonoAlva · August 2020

Try fighting a 1v1 vs a good player that knows exactly when to dodge and block, now with the well fitted buff and people stacking it up its a dodge roll fest in which it becomes imposible to land one single skill. I never complain about anything, but as a vet pvp player who has mained Magblade for a long time and do a lot of dueling, it feels frustrating, I can't even land my bow ani cancelling it on a feared player cuz of the travel time, wait for them to dodge?No problem they will dodge again cuz it costs *** nothing. Want to soul harvest?can be predicted easily.
MAGBLADE is god tier against trash player(which is a boring experience to play against) and trash tier against average and good players.

ne.ga.kurai_ESO · August 2020

We don’t need more undodgeable skills, but there are way too many projectile magNB skills for no reason.

MonoAlva · August 2020

ne.ga.kurai_ESO wrote: »

We don’t need more undodgeable skills, but there are way too many projectile magNB skills for no reason.

Im not asking for undodgable skills, a faster bow travel time would be a good start, at least it can hit on a cced enemy

mikey_reach · August 2020

Blades lost damage mitigation but got a damage healing and sustain buff. How is that a nerf? And btw enemies dodging your attacks happens to any magblade no matter how experienced maybe making swallow soul undodgeable or a faster bow time would help but if swallow got made undodgeable they maybe lowering the damage could be necesary not to sure really . I understand the struggle but if we go by your title overall they recieved a buff.

Bergzorn · August 2020

While Maglade might be affected most, this is frustrating for all projectile-heavy playstyles.

I've not played this patch yet, but when I saw the Well-Fitted buff in the PTS notes, I salivated and cried a little at the same time (running some Well-Fitted myself, but not gonna kill anyone with everything except Curse dodged).

Juhasow · August 2020

Vicious death got buffed though

ne.ga.kurai_ESO · August 2020

MonoAlva wrote: »

Im not asking for undodgable skills, a faster bow travel time would be a good start, at least it can hit on a cced enemy

At least as fast as Caluurion. I really think the stacks should stay up for the duration of the buff, too.

Making Strife and Cripple not projectiles would go a long way.

MonoAlva · August 2020

mikey_reach wrote: »

Blades lost damage mitigation but got a damage healing and sustain buff. How is that a nerf? And btw enemies dodging your attacks happens to any magblade no matter how experienced maybe making swallow soul undodgeable or a faster bow time would help but if swallow got made undodgeable they maybe lowering the damage could be necesary not to sure really . I understand the struggle but if we go by your title overall they recieved a buff.

That is a nerf, to be able to kill being a Magblade you need 1 of 2 things, either a proc or lots of constant pressure which I had achieved through malacath, lost the 10% mitigation which is huge for what?Im hitting 1 out of 4 bows maybe and got a 50%chance to crit.I can get that 10% crit dmg from other stuff without sacrificing much, but the 10% mitigation?Would have to sacrifice lots to achieve.

JayKwellen · August 2020

MonoAlva wrote: »

mikey_reach wrote: »

Blades lost damage mitigation but got a damage healing and sustain buff. How is that a nerf? And btw enemies dodging your attacks happens to any magblade no matter how experienced maybe making swallow soul undodgeable or a faster bow time would help but if swallow got made undodgeable they maybe lowering the damage could be necesary not to sure really . I understand the struggle but if we go by your title overall they recieved a buff.

That is a nerf, to be able to kill being a Magblade you need 1 of 2 things, either a proc or lots of constant pressure which I had achieved through malacath, lost the 10% mitigation which is huge for what?Im hitting 1 out of 4 bows maybe and got a 50%chance to crit.I can get that 10% crit dmg from other stuff without sacrificing much, but the 10% mitigation?Would have to sacrifice lots to achieve.

I addressed this in another thread but yes, the mitigation loss far exceeds the buff to crit and healing percent when weighed against our survivability. It might not be so bad if we had any large heals to benefit from the crit bonus, but as of now it will only really effect dark cloak and rapid regen.

Dark cloak heals for, what, ~800ish? Regen 1,400-2,000? The healing bonus will come out to at best a couple hundred per critical tick. If anything it will only really bring our healing back to about where it was in harrowstorm, which was still bad. In its place we lose 10% mitigation.

So pretty much if you want to know what it's going to be like just think back to how your healing was in the previous patch and subtract 10% more mitigation. Whatever you want to call it, it's not a buff. If the developers are insistent on this change because it fits the class identity, then they need to also give us more class identity friendly ways to heal. Maybe start by actually bringing back the whole "siphoning" part of the class? They won't of course, but it's nice to dream.

Kaysha · August 2020

The 10% mitigation where added after the normal calculations. Therefore the 10% equal 20% from other sources, if you have let‘s say 50%before. It was comparable to major protection. So it‘s a huge nerf.

MonoAlva · August 2020

JayKwellen wrote: »

MonoAlva wrote: »

mikey_reach wrote: »

Blades lost damage mitigation but got a damage healing and sustain buff. How is that a nerf? And btw enemies dodging your attacks happens to any magblade no matter how experienced maybe making swallow soul undodgeable or a faster bow time would help but if swallow got made undodgeable they maybe lowering the damage could be necesary not to sure really . I understand the struggle but if we go by your title overall they recieved a buff.

That is a nerf, to be able to kill being a Magblade you need 1 of 2 things, either a proc or lots of constant pressure which I had achieved through malacath, lost the 10% mitigation which is huge for what?Im hitting 1 out of 4 bows maybe and got a 50%chance to crit.I can get that 10% crit dmg from other stuff without sacrificing much, but the 10% mitigation?Would have to sacrifice lots to achieve.

I addressed this in another thread but yes, the mitigation loss far exceeds the buff to crit and healing percent when weighed against our survivability. It might not be so bad if we had any large heals to benefit from the crit bonus, but as of now it will only really effect dark cloak and rapid regen.

Dark cloak heals for, what, ~800ish? Regen 1,400-2,000? The healing bonus will come out to at best a couple hundred per critical tick. If anything it will only really bring our healing back to about where it was in harrowstorm, which was still bad. In its place we lose 10% mitigation.

So pretty much if you want to know what it's going to be like just think back to how your healing was in the previous patch and subtract 10% more mitigation. Whatever you want to call it, it's not a buff. If the developers are insistent on this change because it fits the class identity, then they need to also give us more class identity friendly ways to heal. Maybe start by actually bringing back the whole "siphoning" part of the class? They won't of course, but it's nice to dream.

Accurate, plus the well fitted buff...We are probably the worst magicka and overall class right now.
Heavy amour is a must to even kite open world, tbh I have been the entire week thinking about the setup il be running and I still can't make up my mind cuz there is always huge downsides in one side or another. Breton BiS again for the added res.

ManDraKE · August 2020

MonoAlva wrote: »

ne.ga.kurai_ESO wrote: »

We don’t need more undodgeable skills, but there are way too many projectile magNB skills for no reason.

ne.ga.kurai_ESO wrote: »

We don’t need more undodgeable skills, but there are way too many projectile magNB skills for no reason.

Im not asking for undodgable skills, a faster bow travel time would be a good start, at least it can hit on a cced enemy

the problem is that would make the combo overpowered. I dont play magblade, i play stamblade but the combo is pretty much the same, incap+spectral bow. If you reduce the travel time of the spectral bow it would be a guaranted kill in a single GCD to 95% of the players, specially if you count crap like calurions legacy. If they make spectral bow more reliable they will have to nerf the damage, you can't have a guarentee 12k+ attack that takes like 7-8 seconds to build up.

I understand your point, unless i got caught with pants down or make a mistake, the chances of a magblade hitting me with the spectral bow are very low, but it hits to hard to not have a counter after being CC'ed.

red_emu · August 2020

Juhasow wrote: »

Vicious death got buffed though

Health tanks dealing more damage, than a glass cannon DD also got buffed to "cancer level"

JayKwellen · August 2020

ManDraKE wrote: »

If they make spectral bow more reliable they will have to nerf the damage, you can't have a guarentee 12k+ attack that takes like 7-8 seconds to build up.

Well first of all, the spectral bow rarely ever hits that hard unless its against someone in light armor without their buffs up, or if it's a total glass cannon build. Or a lowbie without CP/newbie without an understanding of impen.

Secondly, I suppose you think they should also nerf the damage of blighted blastbones and sub assault too right, that or make them easily dodgeable even at point blank range after being cast?

Blastbones can hit as hard as an ultimate every 3 seconds, while keeping 100% major defile uptime and it's AoE and undodgeable. Sub assault hits for a bit less but it an even bigger AoE, gives major fracture/breech, heals the caster, and can also land every 3 seconds. Both of these could also fall into your classification of being able to "hit to hard to not have a counter after being CC'd", the only difference being that CC doesn't even matter because it's hitting you either way. Although I suppose sub assault can still be dodged at least provided you're not in a choke point, so I'll concede that point.

Tbqh, the spectral bow is rather quaint compared to what those two cheap, on-demand, high-burst, high-utility abilities can do. Sure, I can delete a squishy person with a single Soul Harvest + Spec Bow combo, but I've deleted entire groups of squishy people with a Shalks + Dawnbreaker.

For the record I don't actually think blastbones or sub assault should be nerfed (well, maybe minor defile on blastbones), but I do think that wailing and gnashing teeth at the spec bow while other more powerful, readily available, easier to land, cheaper, AoE abilities exist is a bit funny.

Hotdog_23 · August 2020

JayKwellen wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

If they make spectral bow more reliable they will have to nerf the damage, you can't have a guarentee 12k+ attack that takes like 7-8 seconds to build up.

Well first of all, the spectral bow rarely ever hits that hard unless its against someone in light armor without their buffs up, or if it's a total glass cannon build. Or a lowbie without CP/newbie without an understanding of impen.

Secondly, I suppose you think they should also nerf the damage of blighted blastbones and sub assault too right, that or make them easily dodgeable even at point blank range after being cast?

Blastbones can hit as hard as an ultimate every 3 seconds, while keeping 100% major defile uptime and it's AoE and undodgeable. Sub assault hits for a bit less but it an even bigger AoE, gives major fracture/breech, heals the caster, and can also land every 3 seconds. Both of these could also fall into your classification of being able to "hit to hard to not have a counter after being CC'd", the only difference being that CC doesn't even matter because it's hitting you either way. Although I suppose sub assault can still be dodged at least provided you're not in a choke point, so I'll concede that point.

Tbqh, the spectral bow is rather quaint compared to what those two cheap, on-demand, high-burst, high-utility abilities can do. Sure, I can delete a squishy person with a single Soul Harvest + Spec Bow combo, but I've deleted entire groups of squishy people with a Shalks + Dawnbreaker.

For the record I don't actually think blastbones or sub assault should be nerfed (well, maybe minor defile on blastbones), but I do think that wailing and gnashing teeth at the spec bow while other more powerful, readily available, easier to land, cheaper, AoE abilities exist is a bit funny.

DK say hello because they no burst type skill at all outside of ultimate which every class has access to btw.

At least you the bow. Mageblades are fine overall.

I would say templar has a worse burst skill in backlash and its morph's. Sure, it can hit hard but you must build up the damage and wait 6 seconds. Good luck if the nightblade hides away and you don't have a potion ready. I think we can all agree that necros and wardens have the best burst type skill.

Don't forget about proc sets and how fun they are to fight against.

Be safe and have fun

JayKwellen · August 2020

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

Mageblades are fine overall.

Honestly curious, what's your experience playing a magblade in PvP?

nesakinter · August 2020

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

JayKwellen wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

If they make spectral bow more reliable they will have to nerf the damage, you can't have a guarentee 12k+ attack that takes like 7-8 seconds to build up.

Well first of all, the spectral bow rarely ever hits that hard unless its against someone in light armor without their buffs up, or if it's a total glass cannon build. Or a lowbie without CP/newbie without an understanding of impen.

Secondly, I suppose you think they should also nerf the damage of blighted blastbones and sub assault too right, that or make them easily dodgeable even at point blank range after being cast?

Blastbones can hit as hard as an ultimate every 3 seconds, while keeping 100% major defile uptime and it's AoE and undodgeable. Sub assault hits for a bit less but it an even bigger AoE, gives major fracture/breech, heals the caster, and can also land every 3 seconds. Both of these could also fall into your classification of being able to "hit to hard to not have a counter after being CC'd", the only difference being that CC doesn't even matter because it's hitting you either way. Although I suppose sub assault can still be dodged at least provided you're not in a choke point, so I'll concede that point.

Tbqh, the spectral bow is rather quaint compared to what those two cheap, on-demand, high-burst, high-utility abilities can do. Sure, I can delete a squishy person with a single Soul Harvest + Spec Bow combo, but I've deleted entire groups of squishy people with a Shalks + Dawnbreaker.

For the record I don't actually think blastbones or sub assault should be nerfed (well, maybe minor defile on blastbones), but I do think that wailing and gnashing teeth at the spec bow while other more powerful, readily available, easier to land, cheaper, AoE abilities exist is a bit funny.

DK say hello because they no burst type skill at all outside of ultimate which every class has access to btw.

At least you the bow. Mageblades are fine overall.

I would say templar has a worse burst skill in backlash and its morph's. Sure, it can hit hard but you must build up the damage and wait 6 seconds. Good luck if the nightblade hides away and you don't have a potion ready. I think we can all agree that necros and wardens have the best burst type skill.

Don't forget about proc sets and how fun they are to fight against.

Be safe and have fun

Molten Whip is literally the DK burst skill.

Hotdog_23 · August 2020

JayKwellen wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

Mageblades are fine overall.

Honestly curious, what's your experience playing a magblade in PvP?

Couple million AP on both stam and magblade. Small and solo scale. Little of large groups over 4-6 people.

Hotdog_23 · August 2020

nesakinter wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

JayKwellen wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

If they make spectral bow more reliable they will have to nerf the damage, you can't have a guarentee 12k+ attack that takes like 7-8 seconds to build up.

Well first of all, the spectral bow rarely ever hits that hard unless its against someone in light armor without their buffs up, or if it's a total glass cannon build. Or a lowbie without CP/newbie without an understanding of impen.

Secondly, I suppose you think they should also nerf the damage of blighted blastbones and sub assault too right, that or make them easily dodgeable even at point blank range after being cast?

Blastbones can hit as hard as an ultimate every 3 seconds, while keeping 100% major defile uptime and it's AoE and undodgeable. Sub assault hits for a bit less but it an even bigger AoE, gives major fracture/breech, heals the caster, and can also land every 3 seconds. Both of these could also fall into your classification of being able to "hit to hard to not have a counter after being CC'd", the only difference being that CC doesn't even matter because it's hitting you either way. Although I suppose sub assault can still be dodged at least provided you're not in a choke point, so I'll concede that point.

Tbqh, the spectral bow is rather quaint compared to what those two cheap, on-demand, high-burst, high-utility abilities can do. Sure, I can delete a squishy person with a single Soul Harvest + Spec Bow combo, but I've deleted entire groups of squishy people with a Shalks + Dawnbreaker.

For the record I don't actually think blastbones or sub assault should be nerfed (well, maybe minor defile on blastbones), but I do think that wailing and gnashing teeth at the spec bow while other more powerful, readily available, easier to land, cheaper, AoE abilities exist is a bit funny.

DK say hello because they no burst type skill at all outside of ultimate which every class has access to btw.

At least you the bow. Mageblades are fine overall.

I would say templar has a worse burst skill in backlash and its morph's. Sure, it can hit hard but you must build up the damage and wait 6 seconds. Good luck if the nightblade hides away and you don't have a potion ready. I think we can all agree that necros and wardens have the best burst type skill.

Don't forget about proc sets and how fun they are to fight against.

Be safe and have fun

Molten Whip is literally the DK burst skill.

Prefer the heal on Flame lash over Molten whip but I concede it is a fair point if you use molten whip but bow is still stronger overall then whip.

JayKwellen · August 2020

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

JayKwellen wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

Mageblades are fine overall.

Honestly curious, what's your experience playing a magblade in PvP?

Couple million AP on both stam and magblade. Small and solo scale. Little of large groups over 4-6 people.

A couple million isn't all that much. Still, it's enough to know your way around the class at least. I should have specified in my inquiry though whether you play as a dark cloak or shadowy disguise (non-bomb) magblade.

I'm sure you're probably aware that the "magblades are fine in PvP" idea is shared by almost no one. It's honestly the only class I've seen that gets nearly universal sympathy from everyone else, even from folks who don't play it. Even most streamers/serious content creators share the opinion that magblades need some help.

So I'm honestly curious to know what in your opinion makes them fine overall? Do you feel they're equal in measure to magsorcs, stam/magsorcs, stamdens or stamcros? Do you think their damage, burst, and healing is equal to these classes? If so, why?

Sorry if I'm coming off like an inquisitor btw, it's not the intention! I just main a magblade myself if PvP, likewise also usually solo or duo, and my experience is...the exact opposite. I've PvP'd on a magsorc, magplar, stamDK, and stamden, and in my experience each one of them generally offered more overall survivability, healing, damage, and burst, while the magblade felt gimped comparatively in every way except elusiveness. That you believe they're actually in a fine spot I do genuinely find curious and would like to know your thoughts, hence all the questions.

Hotdog_23 · August 2020

Never like the hide/sneak too much on stamblade for some odd reason. Do more of a brawer style. The loss of damage 10% mitigation will hurt it for sure. Magblade more a med-long-range style with hide and seek on it.

Now I will admit I am better with a warden but not a necro. Need more time on the necro class for sure.

Be safe and have fun

mav1234 · September 2020

I miss the days of effective melee magblade. I've been having some moderate luck with what amounts to a medium range build, still using fear and soul harvest but pretty much everything else at range... but cloak just doesn't feel great on it, and I hate the heal morph of cloak... Easily the most effective I've been lately has been building heavily into support & team healing and providing supplemental damage.

Also, I tried getting into Kjalnar and outside of duels/1v1s it just seems not great. What monster sets are people running these days on their magblades, and for what kind of playstyle?

Neloth · September 2020

mav1234 wrote: »

I miss the days of effective melee magblade. I've been having some moderate luck with what amounts to a medium range build, still using fear and soul harvest but pretty much everything else at range... but cloak just doesn't feel great on it, and I hate the heal morph of cloak... Easily the most effective I've been lately has been building heavily into support & team healing and providing supplemental damage.

Also, I tried getting into Kjalnar and outside of duels/1v1s it just seems not great. What monster sets are people running these days on their magblades, and for what kind of playstyle?

I really like playing melee magblade in recent patches. First of all, concealed stun is a huge buff, and frees a precious skill slot. It is also one of the few remaining stuns with relatively high dmg, and with wild hunt ring it is relatively easy to stay in range and circle opponent for the stun and passive SD bonus.

For monster set I like to run malubeth, or 1x domi for some other builds, where I need extra gear slot. Balgroth is also nice if you don’t have elemental drain slotted

cheemers · September 2020

Magblade feels ok, you just have to think outside the box. It's not top tier by any means but not is it unplayable like it has been in the past.

Canned_Apples · September 2020

Magblade bow is complete garbage. I rarely land mine and people rarely land theirs. I don’t even bother anymore.
The problem is that it has a loud distinct “boom!” Sound, unlike the stamina version which barely makes a peep.

Mayrael · September 2020

In general as usual I've made my magblade to work in this patch again. It's not some kind of a monster but it's enough to kill people (also those pesky roll dodge monkeys) and survive a lot.

Bow is complete trash in this patch, adds nothing to equation and just takes the place on bar. In general with each patch I use less and less magblade skills and replace them with generic ones... TBH just 2 of them are really uniqe to magblade - shade and cloak - that should give you (ZOS) a clue, that magblade is pretty meh, but I don't care. I prefer to play underdog than carry classes like warden or necro

Drdeath20 · September 2020

Magblade is the best pve damage dealer ATM and still great bombers in pvp too. Couple million AP is a weekend.

erio · September 2020

My votes on some sort of delayed skill

MonoAlva · September 2020

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

JayKwellen wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

Mageblades are fine overall.

Honestly curious, what's your experience playing a magblade in PvP?

Couple million AP on both stam and magblade. Small and solo scale. Little of large groups over 4-6 people.

If you play at pc and are involved into end game dueling pvp you should for sure know me, Magblade isn't fine at all, its trash and there is no way around it. Unless, as I said, you go against a bad player.

JinxxND · September 2020

Nightblades are all incredibly strong this patch only limited by in game performance, and 1v1 a magblade is renowned for being one of the best dueling classes