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Stamina vs magicka.
JinMori
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I noticed something while doing a few things on a dummy.
It seems that at the moment the only reason why stamina is superior to magicka is because of sets, stamina has better sets, but, if you have similarly powerful sets, magicka pulls ahead by quite a bit, aside from stam necro, i could not get any other stam setup to the same level as i could magicka.
I do not have bis sets, i am comparing tfs and jokeda, vs bsw sorrow or sorrow new moon, or sorrow succession, depending on the build i have.
So i thought about the reason why this could have happened, and came up with a few, but it basically goes back to dot nerfs. Before the dot nerf patch i could get about the same numbers on stam and magicka, while comparing these sets, and so there must be a reason why that happens.
And the reasons are these, stamina lost more dot damage compared to magicka, stamina lost caltrops, stamina endless hail was severely nerfed, don't look at the max hit, look at how many hits it does, it used to tick every half second, now it ticks every 1 sec, but instead what was not nerfed, and thank god it wasn't, light attacks, this basically makes maelstrom destro more valuable than bow compared to pre dot nerfs.
I really think this is the reason why, basically stam is weaker in terms of scaling at the moment, but pulls ahead because of sets. I feel like this is quite the oversight from zos, i am getting on average at least 4k less dps compared to magicka, at the very least.
Edited by JinMori on April 10, 2020 10:02AM It seems that at the moment the only reason why stamina is superior to magicka is because of sets, stamina has better sets, but, if you have similarly powerful sets, magicka pulls ahead by quite a bit, aside from stam necro, i could not get any other stam setup to the same level as i could magicka.
I do not have bis sets, i am comparing tfs and jokeda, vs bsw sorrow or sorrow new moon, or sorrow succession, depending on the build i have.
So i thought about the reason why this could have happened, and came up with a few, but it basically goes back to dot nerfs. Before the dot nerf patch i could get about the same numbers on stam and magicka, while comparing these sets, and so there must be a reason why that happens.
And the reasons are these, stamina lost more dot damage compared to magicka, stamina lost caltrops, stamina endless hail was severely nerfed, don't look at the max hit, look at how many hits it does, it used to tick every half second, now it ticks every 1 sec, but instead what was not nerfed, and thank god it wasn't, light attacks, this basically makes maelstrom destro more valuable than bow compared to pre dot nerfs.
I really think this is the reason why, basically stam is weaker in terms of scaling at the moment, but pulls ahead because of sets. I feel like this is quite the oversight from zos, i am getting on average at least 4k less dps compared to magicka, at the very least.
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Mortiis13✭✭✭✭They are huge balance issues in this game and we can only hope the best or adapt. Devs don't worry about us and going their own way.
Edited by Mortiis13 on April 10, 2020 12:02PM2 -
Ri_Khan✭✭✭✭✭
✭It sure would be nice if they could somehow eventually figure out how to balance this game, yes? Unfortunately whoever's been in charge of that can't seem to get it right.0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It is quite a problem though, because unless you have literally the best sets in the game, you will not do the same damage as magicka, unless you are on stam necro which is very powerful.
Just to compare stam and magicka a bit more clearly, with mag plar with bsw/sorrow i can get upwards of almost 80k, when i do everything correctly and i get good crits, with stam plar i get about 73k if i am lucky.
If i had lokke and relequen i would get about 85/90k, but lokke relequen is considerably better than bsw sorrow. With siroria sorrow i would get about 83 to 85k on mag plar. Siroria sorrow is strong, but compared to a relequen lokke setup, i would say, the stam setup is more stat dense. Major slayer that can have 100% uptime and can be front barred, and relequen that does 10% of your damage on st, magicka just cannot do the same, sorrow is not really a front bar set, but neither is siroria to be honest, you can keep the buff up on backbar, so siroria is better suited than sorrow as a front bar set, but it's no lokke.
Stamina is carried by better sets. Compared to magicka. This was not the case, pre dot nerfs, stam and magicka scaled relatively the same.
The only mag setup that i am at stam level is no pet sorc. Because no pet sorc is just pure trash in terms of damage.Edited by JinMori on April 10, 2020 1:51PM1 -
BloodMagicLord✭✭✭✭It's always been one way or the other, the game goes through cycles of stam being OP and mag being OP. I can't remember a time when they were roughly on par with one another.PC EU | Tank | Immortal Redeemer | Gryphon Heart
STOP CLASS HOMOGENISATION1 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭BloodMagicLord wrote: »It's always been one way or the other, the game goes through cycles of stam being OP and mag being OP. I can't remember a time when they were roughly on par with one another.
Not really, this is a bit different this time.Edited by JinMori on April 10, 2020 3:26PM0 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes, stamina has more and better sets. But also all their abilities are stronger than their magicka version. They are cheaper and usually deal more damage. Same goes for weapon lines.
And I am quite positive that all or at least most (not sure about stamina DK at the moment) stamina classes have significantly more dps than their magicka counter part and it has been this way since years or so? Sets are not the sole reason for this. Stamina is simply more formidable at dealing damage in all content.
Maybe, in your tests, you just found it easier to play a magicka DD and thus performed better.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos2 -
DivineFirstYOLO✭✭✭✭I noticed something while doing a few things on a dummy.
It seems that at the moment the only reason why stamina is superior to magicka is because of sets, stamina has better sets, but, if you have similarly powerful sets, magicka pulls ahead by quite a bit, aside from stam necro, i could not get any other stam setup to the same level as i could magicka.
I do not have bis sets, i am comparing tfs and jokeda, vs bsw sorrow or sorrow new moon, or sorrow succession, depending on the build i have.
So i thought about the reason why this could have happened, and came up with a few, but it basically goes back to dot nerfs. Before the dot nerf patch i could get about the same numbers on stam and magicka, while comparing these sets, and so there must be a reason why that happens.
And the reasons are these, stamina lost more dot damage compared to magicka, stamina lost caltrops, stamina endless hail was severely nerfed, don't look at the max hit, look at how many hits it does, it used to tick every half second, now it ticks every 1 sec, but instead what was not nerfed, and thank god it wasn't, light attacks, this basically makes maelstrom destro more valuable than bow compared to pre dot nerfs.
I really think this is the reason why, basically stam is weaker in terms of scaling at the moment, but pulls ahead because of sets. I feel like this is quite the oversight from zos, i am getting on average at least 4k less dps compared to magicka, at the very least.
every stamplar: am I a joke to you?!?!Zerg Squad
Godslayer x 4
Pro questing fees for RPers in Cyrodiil, pay your taxes!
PC - EU0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DivineFirstYOLO wrote: »I noticed something while doing a few things on a dummy.
It seems that at the moment the only reason why stamina is superior to magicka is because of sets, stamina has better sets, but, if you have similarly powerful sets, magicka pulls ahead by quite a bit, aside from stam necro, i could not get any other stam setup to the same level as i could magicka.
I do not have bis sets, i am comparing tfs and jokeda, vs bsw sorrow or sorrow new moon, or sorrow succession, depending on the build i have.
So i thought about the reason why this could have happened, and came up with a few, but it basically goes back to dot nerfs. Before the dot nerf patch i could get about the same numbers on stam and magicka, while comparing these sets, and so there must be a reason why that happens.
And the reasons are these, stamina lost more dot damage compared to magicka, stamina lost caltrops, stamina endless hail was severely nerfed, don't look at the max hit, look at how many hits it does, it used to tick every half second, now it ticks every 1 sec, but instead what was not nerfed, and thank god it wasn't, light attacks, this basically makes maelstrom destro more valuable than bow compared to pre dot nerfs.
I really think this is the reason why, basically stam is weaker in terms of scaling at the moment, but pulls ahead because of sets. I feel like this is quite the oversight from zos, i am getting on average at least 4k less dps compared to magicka, at the very least.
every stamplar: am I a joke to you?!?!
The only reason why stam can get those numbers is because of sets like deadly strike lokke and relequen, otherwise they would be worse than magicka.
So yea it is a joke somewhat.0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes, stamina has more and better sets. But also all their abilities are stronger than their magicka version. They are cheaper and usually deal more damage. Same goes for weapon lines.
And I am quite positive that all or at least most (not sure about stamina DK at the moment) stamina classes have significantly more dps than their magicka counter part and it has been this way since years or so? Sets are not the sole reason for this. Stamina is simply more formidable at dealing damage in all content.
Maybe, in your tests, you just found it easier to play a magicka DD and thus performed better.
I can play stam and magicka to about the same level, and these are the results.
As i said before, prior to the dot nerfs i could get about the same dps on mag or stam with comparable sets, that is no longer the case, so, something must have happened that caused this, and my hypothesis is that, the loss of caltrops, hail hitting every 1 sec instead of 0.5, and light attack still doing the same damage as before, indirectly buffed magicka compared to stamina.
The only reason why stamina pulls ahead at the moment is because they have objectively superior sets, and not by a little.
If we had a set like mag lokke, relequen, tzogwin etc, you would see magicka pulling ahead.
You can try it yourself, compare 2 sets 1 mag and 1 stam in st where one is not clearly superior, if you have it, you could try something like lokke jokeda, and siroria sorrow, those 2 should be comparable in terms of power, although i would give the advantage to stamina even in this case, and try to see if you can get about the same dps. Because i could not. And the rotation was as tight as i could get it.
i don;t have these 2 sets so i had to manage with inferior sets, but they were still about the same power level, although my stam sets are still slightly better than my magicka.Edited by JinMori on April 10, 2020 3:49PM0 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@JinMori , just as a sanity check, since you mentioned you're using TFS on stamina side for comparisons - you sure you're not overpenetrating? It's awfully easy to overpenetrate on iron atro with TFS, and even if you'll pull all points from Piercing, you may not have a whole lot of other categories to invest them in, most are probably saturated.1 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes, stamina has more and better sets. But also all their abilities are stronger than their magicka version. They are cheaper and usually deal more damage. Same goes for weapon lines.
And I am quite positive that all or at least most (not sure about stamina DK at the moment) stamina classes have significantly more dps than their magicka counter part and it has been this way since years or so? Sets are not the sole reason for this. Stamina is simply more formidable at dealing damage in all content.
Maybe, in your tests, you just found it easier to play a magicka DD and thus performed better.
I can play stam and magicka to about the same level, and these are the results.
As i said before, prior to the dot nerfs i could get about the same dps on mag or stam with comparable sets, that is no longer the case, so, something must have happened that caused this, and my hypothesis is that, the loss of caltrops, hail hitting every 1 sec instead of 0.5, and light attack still doing the same damage as before, indirectly buffed magicka compared to stamina.
The only reason why stamina pulls ahead at the moment is because they have objectively superior sets, and not by a little.
If we had a set like mag lokke, relequen, tzogwin etc, you would see magicka pulling ahead.
That raises the question why you would use compareable sets if there are such superior choices for stamina. Stamina would never use compareable choices. They are above this.
I understand the point you wanted to make. But stamina is really in no spot to complain. They have more armor and lower ressource costs compared to magicka on top of having better dps or in your scenario, at least compareable dps.
The trend continues with Greymoor. Magicka DDs get a social dps set that buffs everyone's damage while stamina again gets a carry set.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos1 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »@JinMori , just as a sanity check, since you mentioned you're using TFS on stamina side for comparisons - you sure you're not overpenetrating? It's awfully easy to overpenetrate on iron atro with TFS, and even if you'll pull all points from Piercing, you may not have a whole lot of other categories to invest them in, most are probably saturated.
Obviously i am not overpenetrating, do you overpenetrate on light armor with the concentration passive? No?
Because you simply adjust your cp, so i simply do that, and adjust them in a similar manner to magicka, only with slightly more points into piercing since tfs is 4200 and conc is 4800.0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes, stamina has more and better sets. But also all their abilities are stronger than their magicka version. They are cheaper and usually deal more damage. Same goes for weapon lines.
And I am quite positive that all or at least most (not sure about stamina DK at the moment) stamina classes have significantly more dps than their magicka counter part and it has been this way since years or so? Sets are not the sole reason for this. Stamina is simply more formidable at dealing damage in all content.
Maybe, in your tests, you just found it easier to play a magicka DD and thus performed better.
I can play stam and magicka to about the same level, and these are the results.
As i said before, prior to the dot nerfs i could get about the same dps on mag or stam with comparable sets, that is no longer the case, so, something must have happened that caused this, and my hypothesis is that, the loss of caltrops, hail hitting every 1 sec instead of 0.5, and light attack still doing the same damage as before, indirectly buffed magicka compared to stamina.
The only reason why stamina pulls ahead at the moment is because they have objectively superior sets, and not by a little.
If we had a set like mag lokke, relequen, tzogwin etc, you would see magicka pulling ahead.
That raises the question why you would use compareable sets if there are such superior choices for stamina. Stamina would never use compareable choices. They are above this.
I understand the point you wanted to make. But stamina is really in no spot to complain. They have more armor and lower ressource costs compared to magicka on top of having better dps or in your scenario, at least compareable dps.
The trend continues with Greymoor. Magicka DDs get a social dps set that buffs everyone's damage while stamina again gets a carry set.
Because the point is not that, the point is that stamina scales worse, and when the devs finally decide to give magicka some new sets to finally replace sorrow with, and maybe also adjust some already existing sets, they will run into the problem, that somehow, magicka now pulls ahead by quite a bit.
This is not a complaint, it's just an observation. And also, what about the people who don;t have the absolute bis gear? They would basically be better off playing mag with relatively comparable sets, and i don;t think that's a good thing.
The set part though is a complaint, because there is no excuse to give stam so many better sets compared to magicka.
The disparity also comes from the armor passives, those are the things they should standardize. Both get penetration, both get damage.Edited by JinMori on April 10, 2020 4:34PM0 -
What about weapon passives? Mag literally has destruction staffs. All others are stam some of which have far better passives than staff0