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Elder Solo Scrolls Massive Single Player
DrCanabis
✭✭
Taking away group queues from battlegrounds defeats the purpose of an MMO. Casual players are still getting steamrolled in BGs even without premades. It fixed nothing. Only thing it did was divide the community. I prefer small scale PvP battles over large scale zerging. Being able to queue in BGs with friends from different alliances is what really brought people together. Every other MMO has the ability to queue with friends. People have quit over this change. And I notice when I queue. Takes a while to find a match and when I do find one a lot of times we don't have 4 people and they start the match anyways. The matchmaking is also just as unbalanced without premades. You could be in a team of 4 with no healer while an opposing team has 2 max geared spamjabplars. ESO turning into a single player game. This will kill the community.
15
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Kiralyn2000✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Taking away group queues from battlegrounds defeats the purpose of an MMO.
Couple thoughts:
1. MMOs existed, in very multiplayer ways, before there were such things as "queues".
2. There's a lot more to the game than Battlegrounds, so the idea "Can't queue for BGs with friends = not an MMO / might as well be singleplayer", is a bit over the top.
Is it annoying that you can't do this? Sure (well, I presume so - I've got no friends, and I don't pvp at all
). But "MMO" and "Multiplayer" are a heck of a lot larger than Queueing For BGs With Friends. 32 -
DrCanabis✭✭Kiralyn2000 wrote: »Taking away group queues from battlegrounds defeats the purpose of an MMO.
Couple thoughts:
1. MMOs existed, in very multiplayer ways, before there were such things as "queues".
2. There's a lot more to the game than Battlegrounds, so the idea "Can't queue for BGs with friends = not an MMO / might as well be singleplayer", is a bit over the top.
Is it annoying that you can't do this? Sure (well, I presume so - I've got no friends, and I don't pvp at all ). But "MMO" and "Multiplayer" are a heck of a lot larger than Queueing For BGs With Friends.
Name another popular MMO that doesn't allow you to queue with friends. I'll wait.....8 -
Nairinhe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭So, with groups those incomplete pugs wouldn't just face full 4-man groups, they would face full 4-man premade groups. Sounds fun.
Also nothing divides community more than PVP vs PVE when something gets nerfed because of one of them (guess who causes nerfs more often)9 -
DrCanabis✭✭Kiralyn2000 wrote: »
But if it's normal for an MMO to remove something that makes it an MMO, there should be other MMOs that also don't allow group queues. Still waiting....3 -
dinokstrunz✭✭✭✭✭
✭Kiralyn2000 wrote: »
For people who heavily invest in PvP in this game, solo queue only BGs are terrible. Cyrodiil is too laggy to find any enjoyment and IC is empty most of the time. Battlegrounds need group or some kind of duo queue system back big time. It's still confusing to why the status of allowing singles only queue on such a feature remains considering it's widely disliked and mocked by those from the PvP community. Just one of the many questionable designs that are plaguing this game currently.7 -
DrCanabis✭✭dinokstrunz wrote: »Kiralyn2000 wrote: »
For people who heavily invest in PvP in this game, solo queue only BGs are terrible. Cyrodiil is too laggy to find any enjoyment and IC is empty most of the time. Battlegrounds need group or some kind of duo queue system back big time. It's still confusing to why the status of allowing singles only queue on such a feature remains considering it's widely disliked and mocked by those from the PvP community. Just one of the many questionable designs that are plaguing this game currently.
That's what they don’t understand. It's like his response is like "oh well you can do a lot of PvE content so it's still a multiplayer". When this is about PvP. And yes group queues is a big part of an MMO. Taking away premades is taking away a big part of the game3 -
Donny_Vito✭✭✭✭✭
✭Kiralyn2000 wrote: »
But if it's normal for an MMO to remove something that makes it an MMO, there should be other MMOs that also don't allow group queues. Still waiting....
You can Group Queue into Cyrodiil, so yes ESO has Group Queing for PvP. You can stop waiting now.10 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭dinokstrunz wrote: »Kiralyn2000 wrote: »
For people who heavily invest in PvP in this game, solo queue only BGs are terrible. Cyrodiil is too laggy to find any enjoyment and IC is empty most of the time. Battlegrounds need group or some kind of duo queue system back big time. It's still confusing to why the status of allowing singles only queue on such a feature remains considering it's widely disliked and mocked by those from the PvP community. Just one of the many questionable designs that are plaguing this game currently.
I guess it comes down to numbers.
Are there more people doing bgs now then there were before?
If participation is better (I don’t know the numbers, btw) then asking for group queues is going to get you nowhere.
If they are down, maybe a change is in order.3 -
DrCanabis✭✭Donny_Vito wrote: »Kiralyn2000 wrote: »
But if it's normal for an MMO to remove something that makes it an MMO, there should be other MMOs that also don't allow group queues. Still waiting....
You can Group Queue into Cyrodiil, so yes ESO has Group Queing for PvP. You can stop waiting now.
You need more than 4 people to queue for Cyrodil. If you didn't know, Cyrodil is just a zergfest. I have no interest in being in a zerg guild. Can you name another MMO that doesn't allow group queues though? I'll wait...
Using Cyrodil as an excuse still doesn't change the FACT group queues have been removed. Nice try though.1 -
Daemons_Bane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭dinokstrunz wrote: »For people who heavily invest in PvP in this game, solo queue only BGs are terrible. Cyrodiil is too laggy to find any enjoyment and IC is empty most of the time. Battlegrounds need group or some kind of duo queue system back big time. It's still confusing to why the status of allowing singles only queue on such a feature remains considering it's widely disliked and mocked by those from the PvP community.
Well I would imagine it has something to do with the amount of complaining players being a lot larger than the amount of players wanting to keep it? Or maybe the idea that it really was a flawed system that gave huge advantages to a small group of players, allowing them to steamroll a very very large number of players?3 -
Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭dinokstrunz wrote: »Kiralyn2000 wrote: »
For people who heavily invest in PvP in this game, solo queue only BGs are terrible. Cyrodiil is too laggy to find any enjoyment and IC is empty most of the time. Battlegrounds need group or some kind of duo queue system back big time. It's still confusing to why the status of allowing singles only queue on such a feature remains considering it's widely disliked and mocked by those from the PvP community. Just one of the many questionable designs that are plaguing this game currently.
That's what they don’t understand. It's like his response is like "oh well you can do a lot of PvE content so it's still a multiplayer". When this is about PvP. And yes group queues is a big part of an MMO. Taking away premades is taking away a big part of the game
Here we go again with forum-goers playing the “there’s nowhere for me to PvP” card.
Battlegrounds is only one PvP mode.
There are multiple campaigns in both Cyrodiil and IC ... where you can group with friends whenever you want. If one campaign is “too laggy” there are other campaigns to choose from.
Don’t want to participate in group PvP via those campaigns?
Totally fine.
However, you not choosing to participate isn’t anyone else’s problem ... especially not ZOS’s.
If Battleground group play hadn’t had the issues of solos versus pre-mades, ZOS wouldn’t have made the decision to put the BG queue where it is today.
Edited by Taleof2Cities on August 24, 2020 4:56PM1 -
DrCanabis✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »dinokstrunz wrote: »Kiralyn2000 wrote: »
For people who heavily invest in PvP in this game, solo queue only BGs are terrible. Cyrodiil is too laggy to find any enjoyment and IC is empty most of the time. Battlegrounds need group or some kind of duo queue system back big time. It's still confusing to why the status of allowing singles only queue on such a feature remains considering it's widely disliked and mocked by those from the PvP community. Just one of the many questionable designs that are plaguing this game currently.
That's what they don’t understand. It's like his response is like "oh well you can do a lot of PvE content so it's still a multiplayer". When this is about PvP. And yes group queues is a big part of an MMO. Taking away premades is taking away a big part of the game
Here we go again with forum-goers playing the “there’s nowhere for me to PvP” card.
Battlegrounds is only one PvP mode.
There are multiple campaigns in both Cyrodiil and IC ... where you can group with friends whenever you want. If one campaign is “too laggy” there are other campaigns to choose from.
Don’t want to participate in group PvP via those campaigns?
Totally fine.
However, you not choosing to participate isn’t anyone else’s problem ... especially not ZOS’s.
And here we go with the "there's Cyrodil excuse". Which still doesn't change the FACT group queues were removed. BGs is small scale PvP which I prefer because it's more tactical than the Zerg modes you mentioned. Pretty sure you don't do any PvP at all. If you did, you wouldn't be talking about Cyrodil in a good way. If you don't get zerged in Cyrodil you will just lag and be stuck on loading screens.2 -
DrCanabis✭✭Donny_Vito wrote: »I'll wait...
We've already clarified, you can stop waiting sir.
You haven't named another popular MMO that doesn't allow group queues....Edited by DrCanabis on August 24, 2020 4:59PM2 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Daemons_Bane wrote: »dinokstrunz wrote: »For people who heavily invest in PvP in this game, solo queue only BGs are terrible. Cyrodiil is too laggy to find any enjoyment and IC is empty most of the time. Battlegrounds need group or some kind of duo queue system back big time. It's still confusing to why the status of allowing singles only queue on such a feature remains considering it's widely disliked and mocked by those from the PvP community.
Well I would imagine it has something to do with the amount of complaining players being a lot larger than the amount of players wanting to keep it? Or maybe the idea that it really was a flawed system that gave huge advantages to a small group of players, allowing them to steamroll a very very large number of players?
If you played enough BG´s you would know that if you queued as a group (regardless of size) your MMR would raise much faster than if you queued by yourself (alongside with earning high scores, which also inflates your MMR significantly) . This would lead to two things:
1. You would generally speaking fight stronger players (less chance of steamrolling)
2. You would fight other premades/groups (less chance of steamrolling)
If all you ever did was queueing by yourself it would take much longer before you reached "high mmr" (premades was much much more common in high mmr). The steamrolling is much more common now than it was back when group queues was a thing.3 -
DrCanabis✭✭Daemons_Bane wrote: »dinokstrunz wrote: »For people who heavily invest in PvP in this game, solo queue only BGs are terrible. Cyrodiil is too laggy to find any enjoyment and IC is empty most of the time. Battlegrounds need group or some kind of duo queue system back big time. It's still confusing to why the status of allowing singles only queue on such a feature remains considering it's widely disliked and mocked by those from the PvP community.
Well I would imagine it has something to do with the amount of complaining players being a lot larger than the amount of players wanting to keep it? Or maybe the idea that it really was a flawed system that gave huge advantages to a small group of players, allowing them to steamroll a very very large number of players?
If you played enough BG´s you would know that if you queued as a group (regardless of size) your MMR would raise much faster than if you queued by yourself (alongside with earning high scores, which also inflates your MMR significantly) . This would lead to two things:
1. You would generally speaking fight stronger players (less chance of steamrolling)
2. You would fight other premades/groups (less chance of steamrolling)
If all you ever did was queueing by yourself it would take much longer before you reached "high mmr" (premades was much much more common in high mmr). The steamrolling is much more common now than it was back when group queues was a thing.
I agree.. Matchmaking is still unbalanced even without premades0 -
MurderMostFoul✭✭✭✭✭
✭The removal of premades wasn't about stopping steamrolls. It was about preventing one group from steamrolling everyone else, game after game.
In high mmr, while groups could queue, it was not uncommon to sit for a BG session as a solo, and have 50% or more of your games be against the same, skilled premade. It was not fun to play 8 games and know at the start of 5 of them that you have almost no chance.
Now, everyone starts every (full) match on much more equal footing. Steamrolls still happen, but now they can happen to anyone.
But there should be a way to play with friends. I think the most effective, fair way to do this is to allow solos and duos to queue.Edited by MurderMostFoul on August 25, 2020 11:15AM“There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”1 -
dsalter✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭im assuming that because your complaining about the BG party queue removal your upset that they removed your 4man cheese setup vs randoms.
i can 100% bet you didnt like going up against other 4man cheese groups, part of why the party players never asked for a strict party only queue.PLEASE REPLY TO ME WITH @dsalter otherwise i'm likely to miss the reply if its not my own thread
EU - [Arch Mage Dave] Altmer Sorcerer
Fight back at the crates and boxes, together we can change things.10 -
wolfie1.0.✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Kiralyn2000 wrote: »Taking away group queues from battlegrounds defeats the purpose of an MMO.
Couple thoughts:
1. MMOs existed, in very multiplayer ways, before there were such things as "queues".
2. There's a lot more to the game than Battlegrounds, so the idea "Can't queue for BGs with friends = not an MMO / might as well be singleplayer", is a bit over the top.
Is it annoying that you can't do this? Sure (well, I presume so - I've got no friends, and I don't pvp at all ). But "MMO" and "Multiplayer" are a heck of a lot larger than Queueing For BGs With Friends.
Name another popular MMO that doesn't allow you to queue with friends. I'll wait.....
No point in naming other MMOs as ZOS doesnt like it when you do that and those posts get removed.2 -
alanmatillab16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Donny_Vito wrote: »Kiralyn2000 wrote: »
But if it's normal for an MMO to remove something that makes it an MMO, there should be other MMOs that also don't allow group queues. Still waiting....
You can Group Queue into Cyrodiil, so yes ESO has Group Queing for PvP. You can stop waiting now.
You need more than 4 people to queue for Cyrodil. If you didn't know, Cyrodil is just a zergfest. I have no interest in being in a zerg guild. Can you name another MMO that doesn't allow group queues though? I'll wait...
Using Cyrodil as an excuse still doesn't change the FACT group queues have been removed. Nice try though.
So basically you are just going to come up with some excuse if someone does name a game where you can't queue with friends with the backup plan of "I said popular mmo that one doesn't count."
FYI, being able to queue with 4 or 5 friends doesn't make it an mmo either.3 -
DrCanabis✭✭alanmatillab16_ESO wrote: »Donny_Vito wrote: »Kiralyn2000 wrote: »
But if it's normal for an MMO to remove something that makes it an MMO, there should be other MMOs that also don't allow group queues. Still waiting....
You can Group Queue into Cyrodiil, so yes ESO has Group Queing for PvP. You can stop waiting now.
You need more than 4 people to queue for Cyrodil. If you didn't know, Cyrodil is just a zergfest. I have no interest in being in a zerg guild. Can you name another MMO that doesn't allow group queues though? I'll wait...
Using Cyrodil as an excuse still doesn't change the FACT group queues have been removed. Nice try though.
So basically you are just going to come up with some excuse if someone does name a game where you can't queue with friends with the backup plan of "I said popular mmo that one doesn't count."
FYI, being able to queue with 4 or 5 friends doesn't make it an mmo either.
What makes it an MMO is being able to queue with 1-3 friends and go against other online players. Still waiting on the name of that MMO that doesn't allow group queues....Edited by DrCanabis on August 24, 2020 6:18PM1 -
alanmatillab16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭alanmatillab16_ESO wrote: »Donny_Vito wrote: »Kiralyn2000 wrote: »
But if it's normal for an MMO to remove something that makes it an MMO, there should be other MMOs that also don't allow group queues. Still waiting....
You can Group Queue into Cyrodiil, so yes ESO has Group Queing for PvP. You can stop waiting now.
You need more than 4 people to queue for Cyrodil. If you didn't know, Cyrodil is just a zergfest. I have no interest in being in a zerg guild. Can you name another MMO that doesn't allow group queues though? I'll wait...
Using Cyrodil as an excuse still doesn't change the FACT group queues have been removed. Nice try though.
So basically you are just going to come up with some excuse if someone does name a game where you can't queue with friends with the backup plan of "I said popular mmo that one doesn't count."
FYI, being able to queue with 4 or 5 friends doesn't make it an mmo either.
What makes it an MMO is being able to queue with 1-3 friends with other online players. Still waiting on the name of that MMO that doesn't allow group queues....
So you consider COD or BF an mmo then? that explains a lot
Edited by alanmatillab16_ESO on August 24, 2020 6:10PM3 -
DrCanabis✭✭im assuming that because your complaining about the BG party queue removal your upset that they removed your 4man cheese setup vs randoms.
i can 100% bet you didnt like going up against other 4man cheese groups, part of why the party players never asked for a strict party only queue.
I already stated I queued solo and with friends. I didn't complain when I queued solo and got beat by premades. I got better.1 -
wolfie1.0.✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Taking away group queues from battlegrounds defeats the purpose of an MMO. Casual players are still getting steamrolled in BGs even without premades. It fixed nothing. Only thing it did was divide the community. I prefer small scale PvP battles over large scale zerging. Being able to queue in BGs with friends from different alliances is what really brought people together. Every other MMO has the ability to queue with friends. People have quit over this change. And I notice when I queue. Takes a while to find a match and when I do find one a lot of times we don't have 4 people and they start the match anyways. The matchmaking is also just as unbalanced without premades. You could be in a team of 4 with no healer while an opposing team has 2 max geared spamjabplars. ESO turning into a single player game. This will kill the community.
It wont kill the community it will just shift where the PVP community goes to PVP. ESO had pvp before BGs and if it went away pvp would still exist. IMO BGs were added to the game as both an afterthought and stop gap to having to avoid dealing with the cyro problem.0 -
DrCanabis✭✭MurderMostFoul wrote: »The removal of premades wasn't about stopping steamrolls. It was about preventing one group from steamrolling everyone else, game after game.
In high mmr, while groups could queue, it was not uncommon to sit for a BG session as a solo, and have 50% or more of your games be against the same, skilled premade. It was not fun to play 8 games and know at the start of 5 of them that you have almost no chance.
Now, everyone one starts every (full) match on much more equal footing. Steamrolls still happen, but now they can happen to anyone.
But there should be a way to play with friends. I think the most effective, fair way to do this is to allow solos and duos to queue.
And guess what? They're still getting steamrolled. What's the excuse now?0 -
pauld1_ESO✭✭✭✭Taking away group queues from battlegrounds defeats the purpose of an MMO. Casual players are still getting steamrolled in BGs even without premades. It fixed nothing. Only thing it did was divide the community. I prefer small scale PvP battles over large scale zerging. Being able to queue in BGs with friends from different alliances is what really brought people together. Every other MMO has the ability to queue with friends. People have quit over this change. And I notice when I queue. Takes a while to find a match and when I do find one a lot of times we don't have 4 people and they start the match anyways. The matchmaking is also just as unbalanced without premades. You could be in a team of 4 with no healer while an opposing team has 2 max geared spamjabplars. ESO turning into a single player game. This will kill the community.
The only way I would support this is if you only went up against other premades. Sadly this is not what the pro-premade crowd wants though, they want easy facerolls.....and you all know it.8 -
zergbase_ESO✭✭✭✭Kiralyn2000 wrote: »Taking away group queues from battlegrounds defeats the purpose of an MMO.
Couple thoughts:
1. MMOs existed, in very multiplayer ways, before there were such things as "queues".
2. There's a lot more to the game than Battlegrounds, so the idea "Can't queue for BGs with friends = not an MMO / might as well be singleplayer", is a bit over the top.
Is it annoying that you can't do this? Sure (well, I presume so - I've got no friends, and I don't pvp at all ). But "MMO" and "Multiplayer" are a heck of a lot larger than Queueing For BGs With Friends.
Name another popular MMO that doesn't allow you to queue with friends. I'll wait.....
Honestly they need do what Blizzard does. If two people queue they are not put in a bg less there is another two people queueing to put them on other teams to level playing field. When 5 man queues it wont place them into BG till there is another 5 man. Or they can do only Premade vs Premade. I think the group queue removal was more of ZoS not wanting to add or fix it to be fair.
This coming from someone that barely pvps or doesn't care for it. There is a fix or solution just ZoS does not want spend money developing it.2 -
pauld1_ESO✭✭✭✭Taking away group queues from battlegrounds defeats the purpose of an MMO. Casual players are still getting steamrolled in BGs even without premades. It fixed nothing. Only thing it did was divide the community. I prefer small scale PvP battles over large scale zerging. Being able to queue in BGs with friends from different alliances is what really brought people together. Every other MMO has the ability to queue with friends. People have quit over this change. And I notice when I queue. Takes a while to find a match and when I do find one a lot of times we don't have 4 people and they start the match anyways. The matchmaking is also just as unbalanced without premades. You could be in a team of 4 with no healer while an opposing team has 2 max geared spamjabplars. ESO turning into a single player game. This will kill the community.
The only way I would support this is if you only went up against other premades. Sadly this is not what the pro-premade crowd wants though, they want easy facerolls.....and you all know it.
One thing in the game being solo queued does not make it a single player game. Plenty of other group content.2 -
madrab73✭✭✭✭✭They could trial a pre made queue to be fair. Would probably need to organise between pvp guilds though to avoid queue time1
This discussion has been closed.