(Poll) How much do you parse?

pauld1_ESO · August 2020

MistyRonin wrote: »

goldCoaster wrote: »

I don't know. I have all those stupid numbers turned off.

Pretty much that. But apparently is enough to do most dungeons solo. Never understood the obsession for the numbers.

DPS meters were the worst and most toxic thing to ever happen to MMOs.

MudcrabAttack · August 2020

On the PTS I'll make a tusking orc version of my characters just to see what theoretical max would be

It's generally mid 80's on most classes to low nineties on a Necro dual wield build, while on the pts.

On live, my Bosmer nightblade hits upper 70's on a bow build. It's the only character this patch that's getting more DPS on the PTS, lol. Finally getting lower 80's.

But seriously, they never really intended to balance races at all for group content if there's around a 4-5k DPS disparity.

sarahthes · August 2020

zvavi wrote: »

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

65k max on my stamplar, 52k max on my magsorc. No matter how I have tried, I cant get them higher than that.

Truth is high parses mean nothing if you cant do them in challenging content. Not all bosses are sitting trial dummies.

It is fair to say that just because you can parse high, it doesn't mean you can automatically pull good numbers when following mechanics. In my experience, however, there is a very strong correlation between people that can parse well and play well.

It is also fair to say that if you cant parse well, you wont pull good numbers in actual content. True, your DPS may potentially get worse in actual content, but I know 100% that it aint getting better.

I agree. Only saying that just because some may pull 90k in a trial dummy, doesnt mean they are top tier players who can do end game content and put their parse in actual use. High parse is useless if you cant stay out of aoe or if you cant do it where many thing are going on around you.

Also, high dps is necessary for specific content where time is necessary. e.g high dps is useless in bosses like Vykosa in vMHK or vSCP HM but very very helpful against Alkosh Fate's in vSS last boss (adds phase) or Azureblight tree boss in vLoM.

while for vMHK hm you are probably right, vSCP HM becomes so much easier with more dmg. Me and my boys went 4 dd on that one and you will be surprised how fast the boss was dropping.

Especially when you burn so fast you literally skip mechanics. Just ice phase then shield then ice then shield... no pesky poison cones to worry about.

gatekeeper13 · August 2020

zvavi wrote: »

while for vMHK hm you are probably right, vSCP HM becomes so much easier with more dmg. Me and my boys went 4 dd on that one and you will be surprised how fast the boss was dropping.

Truth is when I did vSCP HM with a healer, we wiped again and again. When healer left and we got a dd, with 3DDs we did it way easier.

The point of my previous comment was that vSCP HM is perfectly doable even with low dps (good enough to kill the 3 Frost adds before poison phase fast), it's mostly group coordination, ability to avoid stepping on AoEs and following mechanics. Not a dps check boss like e.g vBC2 where Daedroths overwhelm you if DDs dont do damage or Azureblight Tree in vLoM where the area gets full of stranglers the longer it takes to kill it.

karekiz · August 2020

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

while for vMHK hm you are probably right, vSCP HM becomes so much easier with more dmg. Me and my boys went 4 dd on that one and you will be surprised how fast the boss was dropping.

Truth is when I did vSCP HM with a healer, we wiped again and again. When healer left and we got a dd, with 3DDs we did it way easier.

The point of my previous comment was that vSCP HM is perfectly doable even with low dps (good enough to kill the 3 Frost adds before poison phase fast), it's mostly group coordination, ability to avoid stepping on AoEs and following mechanics. Not a dps check boss like e.g vBC2 where Daedroths overwhelm you if DDs dont do damage or Azureblight Tree in vLoM where the area gets full of stranglers the longer it takes to kill it.

BC2 you can actually just stack them on boss and kill them till boss hits like 10% then wait for three with super low DPS groups.

The tree, along with the flight dragon are pure death with low low DPS.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · August 2020

W0lf_z13 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Sounds like we run identical bars other than Unstable wall vs Elemental Blockade (I only run blockade because with Elf Bane, its the same duration as Embers, engulfing and trap). I am not sure talons makes sense for ST DPS without elf bane, but I guess I am not 100% sure on that.

I honestly don't know what the ceiling is going to be with let's say a .9 LA/Sec ratio and that gear setup. I think it is going to be lower than with elfbane, but not sure how much. I have a buddy that runs NMA/Siroria, and he can usually beat me in an actual raid by a bit (he is also better than me), so I am guessing the potential is really close. I just found a DK parse of mine that was 91k with a .89LA/sec ratio using elf bane and siroria. I usually sit right around .9 or so myself.

The main difference is that the rotation with elf bane is significantly easier, so a lot less potential for human error. Half of my dots basically become static, where as with your setup, you really do need to manage just about everything dynamically. My guess is that it is more about DOT uptimes and maybe swap cancelling a little better than your LA Ratio.

I think tonight when i get home from work i may re parse with elf bane, swapped from elfbane to ms and was seeing higher numbers due to more crits... but i may also try replacing talons with orb with the ms/sir setup as well

@W0lf_z13

I dont parse with Orbs on DK. I know some people do, and go as far as to turn the dummy sideways for a few more hits, but I just dont want to bother. In actual content, I drop Inner Light for orbs almost 100% if the time.

My only disclaimer is that you need elf bane jewelry for the build to work, and bloodthirsty makes a big difference in your parse. If you dont already have it transmuted, I would wait until the patch drops to ensure its still meta unless you are swimming in transmute crystals. I sat out this PTS cycle so I don't pretend to be an expert on what this will look like in a week.

Someone I trust did confirm that without Elf Bane on live, Talons is not worth a slot.

pauld1_ESO wrote: »

I don't how it is possible to get 90k single target, my weaving and animation cancel can certainly improve....but not enough to jump to 90k. Is this some special trial gear or something? Can you guys get 90k with your builds on regular dungeon/overland/crafted gear?

The things some people can do in this game make me feel like I have half the game disabled or there is some secret button I don't know about. Most ridiculous game on the planet when it comes to this.

@pauld1_ESO

Any DPS set that drops from trials is going to have a Minor Slayer (5% damage buff in dungeons/trials) for the 3 piece bonus. I wont say it's required to break 90k, because honestly I don't know, but it is a pretty important buff. Is it going to bring you from 50-90? um no. But DPS in eso is a game of inches. Lots of little things you can do to add a few K here and there.

The reality is, however, that DPS in ESO comes down to your rotation, NOT your gear. Rotations come down to PRACTICE. Gear moves the needle, but it's not the most important thing.

There is no magic button, but there is a fairly high skill threshold as a DPS, that some people dont want to admit. I consider myself competent, can break 90k on multiple specs, but there are some people that simply arent playing the same game as the rest of us. I am near the top of the DPS parses in most of my raids these days, but sometimes I run with groups where I am DEAD LAST. Haha

People love to bash people for "dummy humping" or whatever you want to call it, but that is how you get better at your rotation. It is equivalent to a musician practicing scales. Will you automatically be able to play a difficult piece of music just because your scales are on point? No, but it sure does help make it easier. Same goes for DPS in ESO. Dummies help your rotation become muscle memory, and then when you go into actual content, it is far easier to keep it up while following mechanics.

Do you need to pull 90k to clear content? Nope, but I assure you, the DPS at the top of leader boards all spend at least some time on a dummy each patch to work out the subtle changes in their rotations.

W0lf_z13 · August 2020

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I dont parse with Orbs on DK. I know some people do, and go as far as to turn the dummy sideways for a few more hits, but I just dont want to bother. In actual content, I drop Inner Light for orbs almost 100% if the time.

My only disclaimer is that you need elf bane jewelry for the build to work, and bloodthirsty makes a big difference in your parse. If you dont already have it transmuted, I would wait until the patch drops to ensure its still meta unless you are swimming in transmute crystals. I sat out this PTS cycle so I don't pretend to be an expert on what this will look like in a week.

Someone I trust did confirm that without Elf Bane on live, Talons is not worth a slot.

already have the jewels ( thankfully ) all blood thristy 2 golded 1 purple... when i was running the eb/sir setup it was jewels and inferno staff on fb

Inaya · August 2020

Don't know, don't care! I don't pug, and only do dungeons and trials with my guild to have fun. I can kill anything I want to kill. I'm tired of all the epeen and had enough of pushing mythic, server first crap. I came to ESO for the journey!

Oreyn_Bearclaw · August 2020

W0lf_z13 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I dont parse with Orbs on DK. I know some people do, and go as far as to turn the dummy sideways for a few more hits, but I just dont want to bother. In actual content, I drop Inner Light for orbs almost 100% if the time.

My only disclaimer is that you need elf bane jewelry for the build to work, and bloodthirsty makes a big difference in your parse. If you dont already have it transmuted, I would wait until the patch drops to ensure its still meta unless you are swimming in transmute crystals. I sat out this PTS cycle so I don't pretend to be an expert on what this will look like in a week.

Someone I trust did confirm that without Elf Bane on live, Talons is not worth a slot.

already have the jewels ( thankfully ) all blood thristy 2 golded 1 purple... when i was running the eb/sir setup it was jewels and inferno staff on fb

@W0lf_z13

You really cant single bar Elf Bane. Your entire back bar (save trap) needs the fire duration buff. One of the problems with the Elf Bane setup is that it is very gear dependent. You need a Siroria Fire Staff. A False Good Fire staff is also not a bad option. Wont parse as high on a dummy, but it's a better option in a lot of actual content. If you dont have a trial fire staff, you probably need to look elsewhere. Not sure what the ceiling would be if you paired Elf Bane with front bar MS or NMA, but I am guessing those are probably the two best alternatives.

Everest_Lionheart · August 2020

Hard lesson last night with regards to parsing and how it relates to some actual game play situations. All the time I’ve spent parsing lately has done zero to prepare me for content such a vet frostvault where the group we formed last night including myself was inexperienced and we wiped several times and never completed the dungeon. We aren’t giving up though and plan on going back tonight for another go. Despite the hiccups the group is calm and level headed. Inexperienced and under leveled a bit sure, but we learned a few things last night.

All that DPSing under ideal circumstances did not translate to the dungeon where things went haywire in a hurry.

gatekeeper13 · August 2020

karekiz wrote: »

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

while for vMHK hm you are probably right, vSCP HM becomes so much easier with more dmg. Me and my boys went 4 dd on that one and you will be surprised how fast the boss was dropping.

Truth is when I did vSCP HM with a healer, we wiped again and again. When healer left and we got a dd, with 3DDs we did it way easier.

The point of my previous comment was that vSCP HM is perfectly doable even with low dps (good enough to kill the 3 Frost adds before poison phase fast), it's mostly group coordination, ability to avoid stepping on AoEs and following mechanics. Not a dps check boss like e.g vBC2 where Daedroths overwhelm you if DDs dont do damage or Azureblight Tree in vLoM where the area gets full of stranglers the longer it takes to kill it.

BC2 you can actually just stack them on boss and kill them till boss hits like 10% then wait for three with super low DPS groups.

The tree, along with the flight dragon are pure death with low low DPS.

Believe me, as a tank I ve seen DDs that do actually zero dps, no matter if I stack the daedroths or not. They simply couldnt kill them before they became an army. And I am experienced as a tank.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · August 2020

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

Hard lesson last night with regards to parsing and how it relates to some actual game play situations. All the time I’ve spent parsing lately has done zero to prepare me for content such a vet frostvault where the group we formed last night including myself was inexperienced and we wiped several times and never completed the dungeon. We aren’t giving up though and plan on going back tonight for another go. Despite the hiccups the group is calm and level headed. Inexperienced and under leveled a bit sure, but we learned a few things last night.

All that DPSing under ideal circumstances did not translate to the dungeon where things went haywire in a hurry.

It will, be patient.

pauld1_ESO · August 2020

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

W0lf_z13 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Sounds like we run identical bars other than Unstable wall vs Elemental Blockade (I only run blockade because with Elf Bane, its the same duration as Embers, engulfing and trap). I am not sure talons makes sense for ST DPS without elf bane, but I guess I am not 100% sure on that.

I honestly don't know what the ceiling is going to be with let's say a .9 LA/Sec ratio and that gear setup. I think it is going to be lower than with elfbane, but not sure how much. I have a buddy that runs NMA/Siroria, and he can usually beat me in an actual raid by a bit (he is also better than me), so I am guessing the potential is really close. I just found a DK parse of mine that was 91k with a .89LA/sec ratio using elf bane and siroria. I usually sit right around .9 or so myself.

The main difference is that the rotation with elf bane is significantly easier, so a lot less potential for human error. Half of my dots basically become static, where as with your setup, you really do need to manage just about everything dynamically. My guess is that it is more about DOT uptimes and maybe swap cancelling a little better than your LA Ratio.

I think tonight when i get home from work i may re parse with elf bane, swapped from elfbane to ms and was seeing higher numbers due to more crits... but i may also try replacing talons with orb with the ms/sir setup as well

@W0lf_z13

I dont parse with Orbs on DK. I know some people do, and go as far as to turn the dummy sideways for a few more hits, but I just dont want to bother. In actual content, I drop Inner Light for orbs almost 100% if the time.

My only disclaimer is that you need elf bane jewelry for the build to work, and bloodthirsty makes a big difference in your parse. If you dont already have it transmuted, I would wait until the patch drops to ensure its still meta unless you are swimming in transmute crystals. I sat out this PTS cycle so I don't pretend to be an expert on what this will look like in a week.

Someone I trust did confirm that without Elf Bane on live, Talons is not worth a slot.

pauld1_ESO wrote: »

I don't how it is possible to get 90k single target, my weaving and animation cancel can certainly improve....but not enough to jump to 90k. Is this some special trial gear or something? Can you guys get 90k with your builds on regular dungeon/overland/crafted gear?

The things some people can do in this game make me feel like I have half the game disabled or there is some secret button I don't know about. Most ridiculous game on the planet when it comes to this.

@pauld1_ESO

Any DPS set that drops from trials is going to have a Minor Slayer (5% damage buff in dungeons/trials) for the 3 piece bonus. I wont say it's required to break 90k, because honestly I don't know, but it is a pretty important buff. Is it going to bring you from 50-90? um no. But DPS in eso is a game of inches. Lots of little things you can do to add a few K here and there.

The reality is, however, that DPS in ESO comes down to your rotation, NOT your gear. Rotations come down to PRACTICE. Gear moves the needle, but it's not the most important thing.

There is no magic button, but there is a fairly high skill threshold as a DPS, that some people dont want to admit. I consider myself competent, can break 90k on multiple specs, but there are some people that simply arent playing the same game as the rest of us. I am near the top of the DPS parses in most of my raids these days, but sometimes I run with groups where I am DEAD LAST. Haha

People love to bash people for "dummy humping" or whatever you want to call it, but that is how you get better at your rotation. It is equivalent to a musician practicing scales. Will you automatically be able to play a difficult piece of music just because your scales are on point? No, but it sure does help make it easier. Same goes for DPS in ESO. Dummies help your rotation become muscle memory, and then when you go into actual content, it is far easier to keep it up while following mechanics.

Do you need to pull 90k to clear content? Nope, but I assure you, the DPS at the top of leader boards all spend at least some time on a dummy each patch to work out the subtle changes in their rotations.

Fair enough....but what are these rotations? Are they a secret? Iam CP 600ish and about 24k is the absolute highest single target I have ever pushed on a dummy. Even then it is tough to sustain it. This is using recommended builds online with the rotation and all. I don't understand what I could do to get from 24k to 90k lol. It is inconceivable to me. Is this a must have 800 CP thing? Will 200 more CP get me closer?

And when you say some people aren't playing the same game as you I directly blame ZOS for that. If this game were a restaurant the majority of the choices would be on the secret menu.

Myrddin1357 · August 2020

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

Hard lesson last night with regards to parsing and how it relates to some actual game play situations. All the time I’ve spent parsing lately has done zero to prepare me for content such a vet frostvault where the group we formed last night including myself was inexperienced and we wiped several times and never completed the dungeon. We aren’t giving up though and plan on going back tonight for another go. Despite the hiccups the group is calm and level headed. Inexperienced and under leveled a bit sure, but we learned a few things last night.

All that DPSing under ideal circumstances did not translate to the dungeon where things went haywire in a hurry.

It will, be patient.

This.

Parsing is just to see what someone can do in an ideal situation (stationary boss, no incoming fire, no mechanics, etc.) If your target is 60K (as an example) and you can't get anywhere near that against a dummy you definitely will never ever hit that in any dungeon/trial. Getting to a number on the dummy just means your rotation is capable of it. Dungeon mechanics and awareness in fights is something you get from experience. No experienced player thinks parse numbers are the end goal for end game content. It is the first step to see if someone is ready to move on to other steps.

I pug tons of dungeons as tank and it is so obvious when i get dps who practice rotation and know what they are doing. They don't need to hit 80k each. Even if the total group dps is around 60K, it makes a world of difference as you breeze through all non DLC HM.

So many people seem to have something against parsing - as long as they stay away from group vet content that have dps requirements this is fine. But the group gets screwed if they come into places like vBC2 and 2 dps fulyl focusing on 1 daedroth cant bring it down before the next one comes out because they have never once tried parsing and don't realize their dps is too low for content like that.

akdave0 · August 2020

Depends on the dummy. 21mil or 3mil. The biggest thing is parse sets verses raid sets. Yes you can hit 90k but I find it hard to believe you’re going in with siroria gear on.