Not all “bots” are bots some are actual people

maxjapank · August 2020

Saw a guy in Alik'r desert, that was floating over the ground. Looked like he was using the drunk personality, too. Didn't notice him at first till he threw a mudball at me. Not sure if he was actively playing or using a botting script. But regardless, he was floating above the ground while moving. There was no leg movement. He was also traveling from node to node, sometimes becoming invisible, just appearing before taking the resource.

I would've sent in a video of it. But I have a new computer and never set up my Shadowplay to record. Don't remember his name exactly either. Couldn't post it here anyway. But it ended in .....the wizard. If you do see this happen on PC NA, please do send a video in to zos. Don't care if he was actively farming. Just the fact that he was using a cheat program to float above the ground and become invisible is good reason to ban him.

Blacknight841 · August 2020

If you travel to stros m'kai and you watch the farmers at the nodes. You will notice a few things, first they are always in the same loop, second the loop takes the same amount of time, third they all have the same starting point. THESE ARE BOTS! Plain and simple. They violate the TOS, and they prohibit players from enjoying the game. Second scenario, you see a character, spamming the same attack over and over at the enemy that hasn't yet spawned in a group of 12 players, all with the same pet, staff, and no armor on. THESE ARE BOTS! If someone is getting paid to run around, and farm it is because they just don't have the software to bot. But If they re getting paid to farm in real life money, they are still violating the TOS and the same thing applies. A bot, is a bot. A farmer is a farmer. A cheater is a cheater.... It is not the method in which you cheat, it is the fact that you are cheating that matters.

On a different note. If you didn't report that person to Zenimax, you are also breaking the TOS for failing to report someone for cheating.

Someone who breaks into a bank and physically steals the cash is still just as guilty as someone who hacks into the bank with software to steal the same cash. One of them is just a little bit more efficient, but that doesn't change the fact that they are both criminals.

The fact that zenimax has not taken a more proactive approach to getting rid of this problem just shows how little they care about the humans behind the controller. It is the equivalent of a company using slave labor in a different country to get cheap products to sell. Which does still happen. Although some companies go to great length and sign accords to make sure their product is not stained by the blood of others. However I guess these things do not apply to people using your products in video games. A human rights violation should not be encouraged by a company that has the means to combat it. All controllers have a person behind them at some level, and I guarantee that the people who are in charge of running an xbox bot room are getting paid top with benefits.

Elsonso · August 2020

Blacknight841 wrote: »

If you travel to stros m'kai and you watch the farmers at the nodes. You will notice a few things, first they are always in the same loop, second the loop takes the same amount of time, third they all have the same starting point. THESE ARE BOTS! Plain and simple.

Reporting bots in Bal Foyen, Stros M'kai and Khenarthi's Roost on PC NA is like shooting fish in a barrel.

Blacknight841 · August 2020

Ascarl wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I've no idea about any of that, but there are clearly pre-programmed bots. PC NA has a trio of sorcerers running a set route in Khenarthi's Roost just killing mud crabs, you can see them 24/7. Occasionally I enjoy running slightly ahead of them and killing the mudcrabs before they get to them !

The problem of this game is that there a dozens of moderaturs around to intervene for about anything.

In game cheaters like this exist for years and there is no staff around to ban them.

I see a heavy disparity here. They need to shift focus on having maybe four to five moderators and setting up the rest of manpower on in-game problems.

That is not exactly true. I would drive up to Dallas every day and happily sit in the starting zones and ban the bots as soon as they appear. I would do it for free knowing I am making the game a better place for the players that subscribe, buy crowns and play the game the way it is meant to be played.

Blacknight841 · August 2020

The bottom line is that in 6 years NASA was able to get astronauts to the moon.. but for some reason zenimax cannot deal with bots in a video game. I do not think it is a technical challenge, it is just that they would rather devote the resources towards making a new house to sell for crowns. A true travesty of a business is neglecting the quality of your product so that you increase profits, and that is exactly what is happening.

FlopsyPrince · August 2020

Blacknight841 wrote: »

If you travel to stros m'kai and you watch the farmers at the nodes. You will notice a few things, first they are always in the same loop, second the loop takes the same amount of time, third they all have the same starting point. THESE ARE BOTS! Plain and simple. They violate the TOS, and they prohibit players from enjoying the game. Second scenario, you see a character, spamming the same attack over and over at the enemy that hasn't yet spawned in a group of 12 players, all with the same pet, staff, and no armor on. THESE ARE BOTS! If someone is getting paid to run around, and farm it is because they just don't have the software to bot. But If they re getting paid to farm in real life money, they are still violating the TOS and the same thing applies. A bot, is a bot. A farmer is a farmer. A cheater is a cheater.... It is not the method in which you cheat, it is the fact that you are cheating that matters.

On a different note. If you didn't report that person to Zenimax, you are also breaking the TOS for failing to report someone for cheating.

Someone who breaks into a bank and physically steals the cash is still just as guilty as someone who hacks into the bank with software to steal the same cash. One of them is just a little bit more efficient, but that doesn't change the fact that they are both criminals.

The fact that zenimax has not taken a more proactive approach to getting rid of this problem just shows how little they care about the humans behind the controller. It is the equivalent of a company using slave labor in a different country to get cheap products to sell. Which does still happen. Although some companies go to great length and sign accords to make sure their product is not stained by the blood of others. However I guess these things do not apply to people using your products in video games. A human rights violation should not be encouraged by a company that has the means to combat it. All controllers have a person behind them at some level, and I guarantee that the people who are in charge of running an xbox bot room are getting paid top with benefits.

Where does it say I have to report the bots?

If they just ignore it when I do the requirement (if it really existed) would not be appropriate anyway. I have done so in the past, but doubt I will do it much in the future. Plenty of places to grind in the game already.

Aideian · August 2020

Blacknight841 wrote: »

If you travel to stros m'kai and you watch the farmers at the nodes. You will notice a few things, first they are always in the same loop, second the loop takes the same amount of time, third they all have the same starting point. THESE ARE BOTS! Plain and simple. They violate the TOS, and they prohibit players from enjoying the game. Second scenario, you see a character, spamming the same attack over and over at the enemy that hasn't yet spawned in a group of 12 players, all with the same pet, staff, and no armor on. THESE ARE BOTS! If someone is getting paid to run around, and farm it is because they just don't have the software to bot. But If they re getting paid to farm in real life money, they are still violating the TOS and the same thing applies. A bot, is a bot. A farmer is a farmer. A cheater is a cheater.... It is not the method in which you cheat, it is the fact that you are cheating that matters.

On a different note. If you didn't report that person to Zenimax, you are also breaking the TOS for failing to report someone for cheating.

Someone who breaks into a bank and physically steals the cash is still just as guilty as someone who hacks into the bank with software to steal the same cash. One of them is just a little bit more efficient, but that doesn't change the fact that they are both criminals.

The fact that zenimax has not taken a more proactive approach to getting rid of this problem just shows how little they care about the humans behind the controller. It is the equivalent of a company using slave labor in a different country to get cheap products to sell. Which does still happen. Although some companies go to great length and sign accords to make sure their product is not stained by the blood of others. However I guess these things do not apply to people using your products in video games. A human rights violation should not be encouraged by a company that has the means to combat it. All controllers have a person behind them at some level, and I guarantee that the people who are in charge of running an xbox bot room are getting paid top with benefits.

My point was sometimes people mistake farmers for bots like for instance there was a group in I believe Reapers March not 100% on that but they where farming bears for hours and killing them, all of them where grouped up in the same spot and spamming the attack button not moving you would assume they’re bots but it was just a group of people farming most likely ones who are paid to do so I know this because I pmed for a invite to the group and they sent me one I’m pretty sure their computer script doesn’t send group invites. I joined but no one was talking and I left right after.

I did report this person a long time ago but nothing was or has been done yet and don’t expect it to. You basically just summed up my entire point whether it’s manual or using bots there’s still a human behind it being paid but I don’t agree with top benefits the guy I talked to who pays his employees, pays them very minimal.

VaranisArano · August 2020

How I tell a bot:
A. Multiple right angle turns are a dead giveaway, especially in a group
B. Following a preset route that including jogging up to nodes I just looted. A human player would see there's nothing there and skip it.
C. A group running around in overland PVE with the sort of coordination my PVP raid leads would kill for.

FlopsyPrince · August 2020

idk wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

This is likely against the ESO terms of service, but some of you need to get off your high horses a bit and realize even low wage farming work might be more than they could make otherwise.

Many do not think this through. Sometimes "slave labor" like this is better than starving with "no labor". Keep that in mind (do some research on the topic) before you have a knee jerk reaction against the concept.

It reminds me of the "dating" I see in a lot of fantasy anime and books/webnovels. Idiotic as only the modern age had the idea of dating, and that was very recent. Keep in mind that the world doesn't work as nice and neatly as us with "first world problems" often think.

That is true whether it is the past or other parts of the world.

@FlopsyPrince

Actually, a lot of bots are run from countries with lower wages. It just so happens it costs less to run an operation like these as the cost for the game and equipment tends to be less. Thing is, even in countries with very low wages it still costs less and is more reliable to have a program do the work than to pay the "slave wages" being discussed here.

Honestly, someone is willing to work for next to nothing but can afford a PC which is very much a luxury item? Very unlikely and less likely that someone could afford to set all that up and not figure out how to operate bot programs. I would link some of the simple information out there on creating bots but of course, that would be in violation of forum rules.

So no high horse here.

Are they being tied to a chair against their will and forced to play? Do they have other options to have ways to get enough to eat?

That is the point and few discuss it.

Elsonso · August 2020

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Where does it say I have to report the bots?

The answer is that you do not appear to be required to report bots.

However, ZOS does ask that people report violations of the Code of Conduct. Farming resources using botting software violates the Code of Conduct.

Of course, this is all rather academic if ZOS simply files the report in a dark corner until they can get around to it.

FlopsyPrince · August 2020

Elsonso wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Where does it say I have to report the bots?

The answer is that you do not appear to be required to report bots.

However, ZOS does ask that people report violations of the Code of Conduct. Farming resources using botting software violates the Code of Conduct.

Of course, this is all rather academic if ZOS simply files the report in a dark corner until they can get around to it.

How do I send them a "to it"?

Elsonso · August 2020

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Where does it say I have to report the bots?

The answer is that you do not appear to be required to report bots.

However, ZOS does ask that people report violations of the Code of Conduct. Farming resources using botting software violates the Code of Conduct.

Of course, this is all rather academic if ZOS simply files the report in a dark corner until they can get around to it.

How do I send them a "to it"?

I use UPS, but FedEx will also work. It has to be a perfectly round "to it", which is why I don't use USPS. A lot of people get that wrong, and it totally messes up the ZOS people that have to figure out how to get an oblong "to it" into a round hole.

spartaxoxo · August 2020

If it's a robot or human bot, doesn't matter. Report them anyway. If it's a person you have the bonus of making human exploitation harder.

ixie · August 2020

Account sharing is against ToS and a bannable offense, just in case this is what is going on

FlopsyPrince · August 2020

spartaxoxo wrote: »

If it's a robot or human bot, doesn't matter. Report them anyway. If it's a person you have the bonus of making human exploitation harder.

How if they ignore it?

And why is it necessarily exploited if they are human? Should they starve instead?

Blacknight841 · August 2020

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

If it's a robot or human bot, doesn't matter. Report them anyway. If it's a person you have the bonus of making human exploitation harder.

How if they ignore it?

And why is it necessarily exploited if they are human? Should they starve instead?

Just because a person is willing to give up their humanity to survive, doesn't mean you should accept it.

volkeswagon · August 2020

more reason to ban them then. He's still taking advantage of people to make in game gold to sell for real life gold which is against the rules. Also buying in game gold is banable FYI

GenjiraX · August 2020

If I’m playing on my PC on a secondary account and wanted to fire up my main account to group and access the assistants, could I use Stadia for that or does Stadia run in its own instance?

Raudgrani · August 2020

I noticed in Likky Desert. I was farming mudcrabs for like 30 minutes (because I'm always out of the reagent...), and there was this obvious cluster of bots there - but also at least 2-3 guys who were actually playing. They all still had these typical "Asian farming bot" names and used same skills, but I noticed that they were running around in irregular patterns, and they didn't bother trying to get most of the mudcrab spawn points a while after I came.

There were some +10 "common bots", but also a few ones actually maneuvered by real players.

CMDR_Un1k0rn · August 2020

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

This is likely against the ESO terms of service, but some of you need to get off your high horses a bit and realize even low wage farming work might be more than they could make otherwise.

Many do not think this through. Sometimes "slave labor" like this is better than starving with "no labor". Keep that in mind (do some research on the topic) before you have a knee jerk reaction against the concept.

It reminds me of the "dating" I see in a lot of fantasy anime and books/webnovels. Idiotic as only the modern age had the idea of dating, and that was very recent. Keep in mind that the world doesn't work as nice and neatly as us with "first world problems" often think.

That is true whether it is the past or other parts of the world.

I'm shocked by how few western people know about these realities. In the age of the internet it's very easy to find out about these truths. Communication has never been more accessible to us.

Aideian · August 2020

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

This is likely against the ESO terms of service, but some of you need to get off your high horses a bit and realize even low wage farming work might be more than they could make otherwise.

Many do not think this through. Sometimes "slave labor" like this is better than starving with "no labor". Keep that in mind (do some research on the topic) before you have a knee jerk reaction against the concept.

It reminds me of the "dating" I see in a lot of fantasy anime and books/webnovels. Idiotic as only the modern age had the idea of dating, and that was very recent. Keep in mind that the world doesn't work as nice and neatly as us with "first world problems" often think.

That is true whether it is the past or other parts of the world.

I'm shocked by how few western people know about these realities. In the age of the internet it's very easy to find out about these truths. Communication has never been more accessible to us.

That’s kind of why I didn’t think I should bother sharing this, not only do people not understand or believe this unfortunate reality they also just don’t care either way and it’s not like sharing this is going to do anything but I guess it does let people who do understand this reality get a glimpse on what really goes on in video games because eso definitely isn’t the only one.

Blacknight841 · August 2020

Aideian wrote: »

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

This is likely against the ESO terms of service, but some of you need to get off your high horses a bit and realize even low wage farming work might be more than they could make otherwise.

Many do not think this through. Sometimes "slave labor" like this is better than starving with "no labor". Keep that in mind (do some research on the topic) before you have a knee jerk reaction against the concept.

It reminds me of the "dating" I see in a lot of fantasy anime and books/webnovels. Idiotic as only the modern age had the idea of dating, and that was very recent. Keep in mind that the world doesn't work as nice and neatly as us with "first world problems" often think.

That is true whether it is the past or other parts of the world.

I'm shocked by how few western people know about these realities. In the age of the internet it's very easy to find out about these truths. Communication has never been more accessible to us.

That’s kind of why I didn’t think I should bother sharing this, not only do people not understand or believe this unfortunate reality they also just don’t care either way and it’s not like sharing this is going to do anything but I guess it does let people who do understand this reality get a glimpse on what really goes on in video games because eso definitely isn’t the only one.

The core issue is that Zenimax promotes this type of action by not doing anything to prevent it. Prevent being the keyword, not just control the issue. The same way it is up to a jeweler to make sure that the diamond in your ring isn't stained with blood, the same way the developer should responsible for the injustice in their games.

Aideian · August 2020

Blacknight841 wrote: »

Aideian wrote: »

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

This is likely against the ESO terms of service, but some of you need to get off your high horses a bit and realize even low wage farming work might be more than they could make otherwise.

Many do not think this through. Sometimes "slave labor" like this is better than starving with "no labor". Keep that in mind (do some research on the topic) before you have a knee jerk reaction against the concept.

It reminds me of the "dating" I see in a lot of fantasy anime and books/webnovels. Idiotic as only the modern age had the idea of dating, and that was very recent. Keep in mind that the world doesn't work as nice and neatly as us with "first world problems" often think.

That is true whether it is the past or other parts of the world.

I'm shocked by how few western people know about these realities. In the age of the internet it's very easy to find out about these truths. Communication has never been more accessible to us.

That’s kind of why I didn’t think I should bother sharing this, not only do people not understand or believe this unfortunate reality they also just don’t care either way and it’s not like sharing this is going to do anything but I guess it does let people who do understand this reality get a glimpse on what really goes on in video games because eso definitely isn’t the only one.

The core issue is that Zenimax promotes this type of action by not doing anything to prevent it. Prevent being the keyword, not just control the issue. The same way it is up to a jeweler to make sure that the diamond in your ring isn't stained with blood, the same way the developer should responsible for the injustice in their games.

I mean I’m sure they could ban this person if they wanted to, although I don’t have proof they could probably check their mail or any of their transactions and see something sketchy going on, or at least I’d assume they could, maybe they launder everything perfect where it’s undetectable from Zenimax.

munchkinxx · August 2020

Aideian wrote: »

So a lot of people are aware of the “bots” that’s on every platform that farms mats I mostly see them in Betnikh, I talked to a major figure probably one of the richest players in eso on console I won’t specify the console their on or their name. He told me he actually pays people with real money to farm for him and I won’t be specific who he gets to do it but he pays them very minimal to farm all day, I told him that’s basically virtual slavery what he pays them and how long they work and obviously illegal I’m assuming, but he brushed it off and insisted they basically run the eso economy and without them it would crash. Unfortunately he’s not the only one who does it, he told me there’s a lot people who do it. I have no proof of our conversation because it was by mic so I couldn’t get him banned if I wanted to.

The bots are not bots they’re actual people who spend all day farming for little pay and the ones who control them basically run the eso economy to prove this to me a long time ago one raised the price of a mat singlehandedly and everyone followed suit.

“Edit” Never said none of them use computer software to run farming scripts or however it works, I’m saying that not all of them use it and there is also a lot who do manual labor. Either way there is a human being behind both just one is manual the other is not. So yeah not claiming bots don’t exist just saying a lot of people claim people are bots mistakingly when they’re just farming but in a bot like behavior.

I'm betting the person you were talking to owns some trading guilds too.

I know of at least three people on console that employ bot farmers ..

They then take the materials and sell them through their traders...

They then skim the gold off the traders and sell it online...and have been doing this for years.

They have multiple fake cp accounts that 'own' the guilds and frequently switch GMs around...

They are usually 'alliance' trading guilds who swap trader positions around, so each trader gets a cheaper location for a couple of weeks, so they can skim the gold off the trader...

I don't personally have hard evidence of this. It's just a known thing, (I've played since launch and GM of a major trader and have been threatened by these people previously) though I do know someone that has psn messages where one of them admitted selling the gold online and making thousands of dollars a month from it... But they are too scared to do anything with it because these people are vindictive.

The loss of the ability to 'snipe' or use dummy traders to secure cheap bids, slowed them down but only a little...they just put more funds into the bot farmers they employ and expanded on that.

They are a main reason why city traders costs are so exorbitant...

Though lately, on console, the bots have slowed right down ...possibly due to network restrictions or some such due to Covid ... And so some of these people's traders have been forced out of the main cities for lack of 'income' from the bot supplied materials and because they still need to skim off the traders to support their real life incomes from gold selling, leaving their traders and members high and dry.

They have made themselves a tidy industry from it and I am surprised ZOS haven't caught them..

Aideian · August 2020

munchkinxx wrote: »

Aideian wrote: »

So a lot of people are aware of the “bots” that’s on every platform that farms mats I mostly see them in Betnikh, I talked to a major figure probably one of the richest players in eso on console I won’t specify the console their on or their name. He told me he actually pays people with real money to farm for him and I won’t be specific who he gets to do it but he pays them very minimal to farm all day, I told him that’s basically virtual slavery what he pays them and how long they work and obviously illegal I’m assuming, but he brushed it off and insisted they basically run the eso economy and without them it would crash. Unfortunately he’s not the only one who does it, he told me there’s a lot people who do it. I have no proof of our conversation because it was by mic so I couldn’t get him banned if I wanted to.

The bots are not bots they’re actual people who spend all day farming for little pay and the ones who control them basically run the eso economy to prove this to me a long time ago one raised the price of a mat singlehandedly and everyone followed suit.

“Edit” Never said none of them use computer software to run farming scripts or however it works, I’m saying that not all of them use it and there is also a lot who do manual labor. Either way there is a human being behind both just one is manual the other is not. So yeah not claiming bots don’t exist just saying a lot of people claim people are bots mistakingly when they’re just farming but in a bot like behavior.

I'm betting the person you were talking to owns some trading guilds too.

I know of at least three people on console that employ bot farmers ..

They then take the materials and sell them through their traders...

They then skim the gold off the traders and sell it online...and have been doing this for years.

They have multiple fake cp accounts that 'own' the guilds and frequently switch GMs around...

They are usually 'alliance' trading guilds who swap trader positions around, so each trader gets a cheaper location for a couple of weeks, so they can skim the gold off the trader...

I don't personally have hard evidence of this. It's just a known thing, (I've played since launch and GM of a major trader and have been threatened by these people previously) though I do know someone that has psn messages where one of them admitted selling the gold online and making thousands of dollars a month from it... But they are too scared to do anything with it because these people are vindictive.

The loss of the ability to 'snipe' or use dummy traders to secure cheap bids, slowed them down but only a little...they just put more funds into the bot farmers they employ and expanded on that.

They are a main reason why city traders costs are so exorbitant...

Though lately, on console, the bots have slowed right down ...possibly due to network restrictions or some such due to Covid ... And so some of these people's traders have been forced out of the main cities for lack of 'income' from the bot supplied materials and because they still need to skim off the traders to support their real life incomes from gold selling, leaving their traders and members high and dry.

They have made themselves a tidy industry from it and I am surprised ZOS haven't caught them..

You’re right, the person I know does own a guild but only one I know of but another person I’m aware of who is bigger than them and also employees bots/people has multiple guilds. The guy I know however I’d imagine Is is close to a billionaire he literally would spend millions of gold just to buy out trader spots to mess with guilds.

DigitalHype · August 2020

There are many people who are in-game gold poor, and real world "well off". These individuals are often buying Crowns to sell for gold so they can obtain something without spending any time in-game making gold.

The bot farmers are the supply side here. They are in-game gold wealthy. Those bot farmers become an indirect source of Crown purchases from ZoS. This is why ZoS looks the other way when it comes to the crowns for gold transactions. In reality, everything that isn't a BoP can be purcahsed with real money, even if ZoS doesn't put it on the store.

In a preverse way, I think they are generating revenue for ZoS. Thus, I don't expect anything to change.

Blacknight841 · August 2020

DigitalHype wrote: »

There are many people who are in-game gold poor, and real world "well off". These individuals are often buying Crowns to sell for gold so they can obtain something without spending any time in-game making gold.

The bot farmers are the supply side here. They are in-game gold wealthy. Those bot farmers become an indirect source of Crown purchases from ZoS. This is why ZoS looks the other way when it comes to the crowns for gold transactions. In reality, everything that isn't a BoP can be purcahsed with real money, even if ZoS doesn't put it on the store.

In a preverse way, I think they are generating revenue for ZoS. Thus, I don't expect anything to change.

This is inaccurate, bots do not care about crowns. They sell gold for cash. The people who are well off and buy gold have two avenues to take ... either buy gold against the TOS, or buy crowns. Bots take away from crown sales.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · August 2020

Not all sweat shops make shoes and clothes. I assure you, there are factories in some parts of the world with a sea of computers where people farm MMO gold to be sold, and this issue certainly goes far beyond ESO.

Might get yelled at for even discussing this, and I 100% oppose gold farming, but ZOS does allow crown sales for gold, so we do have a realistic conversion value on gold/dollar (its about 30k gold/Dollar depending on Crown sales and platform). Gold farmers can certainly generate 100k plus an hour if not more. Do the math. Minimum wages arent universal.

Blacknight841 · August 2020

Aideian wrote: »

Blacknight841 wrote: »

Aideian wrote: »

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

This is likely against the ESO terms of service, but some of you need to get off your high horses a bit and realize even low wage farming work might be more than they could make otherwise.

Many do not think this through. Sometimes "slave labor" like this is better than starving with "no labor". Keep that in mind (do some research on the topic) before you have a knee jerk reaction against the concept.

It reminds me of the "dating" I see in a lot of fantasy anime and books/webnovels. Idiotic as only the modern age had the idea of dating, and that was very recent. Keep in mind that the world doesn't work as nice and neatly as us with "first world problems" often think.

That is true whether it is the past or other parts of the world.

I'm shocked by how few western people know about these realities. In the age of the internet it's very easy to find out about these truths. Communication has never been more accessible to us.

That’s kind of why I didn’t think I should bother sharing this, not only do people not understand or believe this unfortunate reality they also just don’t care either way and it’s not like sharing this is going to do anything but I guess it does let people who do understand this reality get a glimpse on what really goes on in video games because eso definitely isn’t the only one.

The core issue is that Zenimax promotes this type of action by not doing anything to prevent it. Prevent being the keyword, not just control the issue. The same way it is up to a jeweler to make sure that the diamond in your ring isn't stained with blood, the same way the developer should responsible for the injustice in their games.

I mean I’m sure they could ban this person if they wanted to, although I don’t have proof they could probably check their mail or any of their transactions and see something sketchy going on, or at least I’d assume they could, maybe they launder everything perfect where it’s undetectable from Zenimax.

There is no such thing as undetectable to zos, the game log is very specific and records everything that happens. If you look at other game logs, like BDO, you can see every transaction made on the account. -picked up 5 wood, -deposited 10 gold into bank, sent item to person.... and so on. If they wanted to trace it, they could go all the way back and find the oldest non destroyed items in the game.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · August 2020

Blacknight841 wrote: »

DigitalHype wrote: »

There are many people who are in-game gold poor, and real world "well off". These individuals are often buying Crowns to sell for gold so they can obtain something without spending any time in-game making gold.

The bot farmers are the supply side here. They are in-game gold wealthy. Those bot farmers become an indirect source of Crown purchases from ZoS. This is why ZoS looks the other way when it comes to the crowns for gold transactions. In reality, everything that isn't a BoP can be purcahsed with real money, even if ZoS doesn't put it on the store.

In a preverse way, I think they are generating revenue for ZoS. Thus, I don't expect anything to change.

This is inaccurate, bots do not care about crowns. They sell gold for cash. The people who are well off and buy gold have two avenues to take ... either buy gold against the TOS, or buy crowns. Bots take away from crown sales.

True, but assuming efficient markets, we can use data from one to extrapolate value on the other. If you want to convert cash to gold, you have two options. Sell crowns (seems to be okay with the TOS). Buy from gold farmers (against TOS, and should result in a perma ban after a public flogging). I am not saying they are identical, but i am guessing they are closer than most people think.