Wait. People actually go to the effort to create, and maintain, gold gear on their 10-50 alts just so they can go into Sub-50 Cyrodiil and rule the roost? It is becoming more clear as to why PVP players might complain about having to gold their gear when some meta build changes. They have to re-gold all their stored 10-50 gear.

Snowgoons wrote: »

That player can take resources solo, kill entire small man groups solo, how is the average player that just started during the free weekend let's say, supposed to compete???!?

Why should a total newbie, one that can't even take a resource solo, be able to compete with well skilled and equipped, expierenced long term players?

Attitudes like this is what caused nerfs, dumbing downs, "lowering the ceiling" and the proc meta to begin with.

BTW yes, golded out "pros" that stroke their egos by running rampage in under 50 is stupid.
But let's not forget that simply leveling a toon via pvp is a thing.

Gorreck wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

People don't PvP because they aren't interested in it. You can propose all the changes you like to Cyrodiil and accuse the developers of incompetence in not following your advice but the bottom line is that even if those changes were introduced those who don't PvP still wouldn't do so, it just doesn't appeal to them and never will.

No one does anything, until they do it.

However IF your first experience of something is terrible (either because of terrible performance, or because you get rolfstomped by a twink in fully golded gear) they you ARE less likely to keep doing it or try it again.

If you do into your first dungeon and get repeatedly insta-killed for reasons you don't understand, then you aren't especially likely to venture into one again, that doesn't make someone an anti-dungeon player however, it just makes some that had a bad experience.

That's all perfectly true, but my point also stands. A lot of people choose not to PvP at all in their gaming, or perhaps just not in a lore-based quest-centred game like ESO in particular, not because they have had a bad experience but simply because they have no interest in it, it's just not why they're playing the game.

Original poster: get good

You're not going to get better fighting vs unskilled players.

Snowgoons wrote: »

Because you allow 810+ players to come into pre 50 cyrodiil with max gear on low level alt characters and curb stomp everyone thinking they are actually good at the game.

I don't understand how seemingly no one has the competence to see this is also what deters people from pvping.

This is your first experience in anything but BG, and you're going against people who won't leave the campaign and just keep remaking the same character.

It's been an issue since launch, and ZOS has done absolutely nothing.

Can I suggest a solution?

Perhaps give everyone a starter set based on class and spec, that rivals maybe a purple set of crafted gear?

I just literally watched from my keep a Magplar jabbing 5-10 noobs to death, when I whispered him why he wasn't in a different campaign, he replied "I'm a god here"

It's just absolutely, stupid.

You need to give people the right tools to do a job, or else they aren't going to do it. They especially aren't gonna spend the time farming everything to compete against people who have stacked twinked characters. Someone wake up.

I doubt it would help much. You can put players in gold gear and the best set up possible - they are still likely to be "Curb Stomped" the first time they enter PvP on this game - and many many times afterwards.

PvP on this game is just deadly as _____. It's not uncommon to die almost instantly - especially if you are ganged up on. This isn't like a lot of other PvP on games where you can actually heal through incoming damage or use some defensive cool down to stave off an assault. There are only a few defensive strategies I have found that work - and they require skill and experience to pull off and a lot of practice. In other words: getting brutalized on this game's PvP is likely unavoidable no matter what you start players off with. That's just how this game's PvP is - the damage is insane. And that's the reason most players I see try and then quit its PvP... it's because the incoming damage just overwhelms them and makes for a miserable experience. There is also a lot of cheaters in Cyrodil which doesn't help either.

So I think the bottom line is it's just not for everybody - and giving them a starting kit of sorts isn't going to help. They would have to retool the combat system and lower the damage dramatically to make it more welcoming to new players. Because there is no magic combination of gear that's going to do it.

Vanagrand wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Vanagrand wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

I don't PvP (much) for 2 reasons :
- PvP mentality (hate whispers, provocation, teabagging)
- I suck at it.

Note that if the 1st reason was out of the way, I'd probably do what it takes to remove the 2nd reason.

But none of those reasons have anything to do with your claim.

High end PVE comunnity is probably the most elitist part the game.

Far more than the PvP one.

What's does it have to do with the topic at end ? I don't do competitive / progression / high end PvE either. But this topic is about PvP.

Couse the one i queted said the he dobt play PvP couse of the toxicity and I responded that that the biggest toxicity is in the PVE community not in the PvP one.

You're right, I can't even hand in a quest without being teabagged and sent hate whispers by another PvEer. Then there's all the cheating that goes on in PvE... !

It's much easier to blitz out incredible parse when your opponent can stand still, or be able to fight a static target in PVE...

Whereas, PVP is too fluid and it's not about critical ticks or damave-over-time layering, as PVE is. Tho, ball groups have adopted this approach in PVP; one skill to effect X targets is a win when layered.

So, PVE players often don't like things fighting back and prefer the player verse environment threat level of game play; where, they can build characters or form groups to negate game.mechanics - hence, I don't like anything actually fighting back or be at risk of taking serious damage...

For these reasons are why PVP gameplay is not as populated as PVE content play. With all the sets (proc and stat boosts); I can skip using CP on any new character and trash all PVE mobs. It gets loads easier with CP; thats not a real reality when facing other players. More thought and approach is needed; and its okay, if it's not for everyone.

idk wrote: »

Snowgoons wrote: »

Because you allow 810+ players to come into pre 50 cyrodiil with max gear on low level alt characters and curb stomp everyone thinking they are actually good at the game.

The entire argument rests on this piece of information and the assumption that most players go into sub lvl 50 PvP. Most do not. Heck, many players that do not like PvP have never spent more time in Cyrodiil than it takes to unlock rapids.

Very true. The current protest over the Vigor and Rapids swap is an example.

[

Vanagrand wrote: »

PvP requires a lot more of the player than PVE that is mostly copy this build, follow this rotation, kill everything in your path.

When this people try PVP and dont understand why even following Alcast build they are getting smashed they prefer to go back to the safe spot of PVE. And i dont blame them, PVP is not a curve of learing, is a stair. And a lot of people dont like/wish to do the effort.

Good point you can train you up in PvE going from normal dungeons up to godslayer, in PvP its no progression outside of <50 pvp beeing easier.
And the skill unbalance is extreme same as in PvE, but again in PvE you can select your fight.
Hint you only need to die once and you don't fight battleships with destroyers.

And you have an pretty large group of players who are afraid of getting killed by other players for some reason but has no issue dying 100 times in vMA.