Not all “bots” are bots some are actual people

Aideian · August 2020

So a lot of people are aware of the “bots” that’s on every platform that farms mats I mostly see them in Betnikh, I talked to a major figure probably one of the richest players in eso on console I won’t specify the console their on or their name. He told me he actually pays people with real money to farm for him and I won’t be specific who he gets to do it but he pays them very minimal to farm all day, I told him that’s basically virtual slavery what he pays them and how long they work and obviously illegal I’m assuming, but he brushed it off and insisted they basically run the eso economy and without them it would crash. Unfortunately he’s not the only one who does it, he told me there’s a lot people who do it. I have no proof of our conversation because it was by mic so I couldn’t get him banned if I wanted to.

The bots are not bots they’re actual people who spend all day farming for little pay and the ones who control them basically run the eso economy to prove this to me a long time ago one raised the price of a mat singlehandedly and everyone followed suit.

“Edit” Never said none of them use computer software to run farming scripts or however it works, I’m saying that not all of them use it and there is also a lot who do manual labor. Either way there is a human being behind both just one is manual the other is not. So yeah not claiming bots don’t exist just saying a lot of people claim people are bots mistakingly when they’re just farming but in a bot like behavior.

Tandor · August 2020

I've no idea about any of that, but there are clearly pre-programmed bots. PC NA has a trio of sorcerers running a set route in Khenarthi's Roost just killing mud crabs, you can see them 24/7. Occasionally I enjoy running slightly ahead of them and killing the mudcrabs before they get to them

!

Major_Lag · August 2020

Why does that not surprise me...

In some parts of the world, menial labor is so cheap that you would be crazy to spend money on automating tasks that can be done for a pittance by human slaves laborers.

I see that tendency a lot in the industry I work in. Many of the tedious repetitive tasks are not automated, even though they could easily be - because it would be more expensive to buy, set up and maintain a machine for it, than it is to simply pay someone to do that work by hand.

Having said that, I also know for a fact that a lot of the ESO farming bots are actual computer controlled bots. Sometimes it's obvious from the way they move, or from their behavior, etc.

AshfieldLad · August 2020

I have a nice cap of around 10 sorcs standing together in bleakrock , on cue every 12 seconds or so firing arrows at wolf spawns To pull them in and all sitting there with boundless storm and auto collect. Nobody is that good or patient to do that hour after hour all day and night in a perfect loop. I’d post it but it’s get edited anyway so no point. This is xbox1 eu

TineaCruris · August 2020

The bot trains that look like bot trains ARE bot trains.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say with your post.

Bot trains should be reported early and often....and continue to be reported until they are taken down.

JanTanhide · August 2020

Aideian wrote: »

So a lot of people are aware of the “bots” that’s on every platform that farms mats I mostly see them in Betnikh, I talked to a major figure probably one of the richest players in eso on console I won’t specify the console their on or their name. He told me he actually pays people with real money to farm for him and I won’t be specific who he gets to do it but he pays them very minimal to farm all day, I told him that’s basically virtual slavery what he pays them and how long they work and obviously illegal I’m assuming, but he brushed it off and insisted they basically run the eso economy and without them it would crash. Unfortunately he’s not the only one who does it, he told me there’s a lot people who do it. I have no proof of our conversation because it was by mic so I couldn’t get him banned if I wanted to.

The bots are not bots they’re actual people who spend all day farming for little pay and the ones who control them basically run the eso economy to prove this to me a long time ago one raised the price of a mat singlehandedly and everyone followed suit.

The BOTs ARE BOTs. It is extremely easy to see what a BOT is and what a Player that is farming is. The difference is substantial. If you don't know what I am referring to watch a BOT train farm and you will see how they all stay together and do the exact same moves as they progress through their programmed route.

You can run ahead of the BOT train and kill the mobs they are programmed to harvest and watch the BOTs go to each and every spot that had mobs and try to harvest them. It's easy to do. If the BOT train is near a Dolmen and the Dolmen is active you can attack the Dolmen and run to the BOT train and the Dolmen NPCs usually wipe out the BOT train. In a few minutes they will respawn at the nearest Wayshrine and be all back in line again on their route.

Very easy to tell the difference between a BOT train and players farming.

JanTanhide · August 2020

On PC use Bot Scanner 2000 to easily report BOTS. It is outdated but still works pefectly.

https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1818-BotScanner2000.html

Elsonso · August 2020

Aideian wrote: »

The bots are not bots they’re actual people who spend all day farming for little pay and the ones who control them basically run the eso economy to prove this to me a long time ago one raised the price of a mat singlehandedly and everyone followed suit.

Those people have been around for a long time, and I have chatted briefly with some of them.

The people who run automated software to control the character while it collects resources, or levels up, are botting. It does not matter how they are getting paid, if they are getting paid, who pays them, or how much they get paid.

goldCoaster · August 2020

He sounds like an idiot.

FrancisCrawford · August 2020

Good analysis!

You seem to have ruled out the intemediate case in which a human actively plays a character and has his actions immediately copied by a bunch of clones.

Even so, I bet there are places where that happens too.

JanTanhide wrote: »

Aideian wrote: »

So a lot of people are aware of the “bots” that’s on every platform that farms mats I mostly see them in Betnikh, I talked to a major figure probably one of the richest players in eso on console I won’t specify the console their on or their name. He told me he actually pays people with real money to farm for him and I won’t be specific who he gets to do it but he pays them very minimal to farm all day, I told him that’s basically virtual slavery what he pays them and how long they work and obviously illegal I’m assuming, but he brushed it off and insisted they basically run the eso economy and without them it would crash. Unfortunately he’s not the only one who does it, he told me there’s a lot people who do it. I have no proof of our conversation because it was by mic so I couldn’t get him banned if I wanted to.

The bots are not bots they’re actual people who spend all day farming for little pay and the ones who control them basically run the eso economy to prove this to me a long time ago one raised the price of a mat singlehandedly and everyone followed suit.

The BOTs ARE BOTs. It is extremely easy to see what a BOT is and what a Player that is farming is. The difference is substantial. If you don't know what I am referring to watch a BOT train farm and you will see how they all stay together and do the exact same moves as they progress through their programmed route.

You can run ahead of the BOT train and kill the mobs they are programmed to harvest and watch the BOTs go to each and every spot that had mobs and try to harvest them. It's easy to do. If the BOT train is near a Dolmen and the Dolmen is active you can attack the Dolmen and run to the BOT train and the Dolmen NPCs usually wipe out the BOT train. In a few minutes they will respawn at the nearest Wayshrine and be all back in line again on their route.

Very easy to tell the difference between a BOT train and players farming.

idk · August 2020

First, it is against the ToS to trade real-world currency for anything in-game. So your "friend" is already violating that and I suggest you report them, showing Zos the screenshots of the conversation. Otherwise, it is being complicit.

Second, nothing in the OP makes it clear that bots are not doing farming. OP's friend could very well be paying the bots do to the farming.

Think about that for a moment and it should become clear nothing OP has said actually suggests they are not bots, only that someone is violating the ToS by paying others and that could very well be paying others to bot for them.

In other words, it sounds more like OP's friend is the bot pimp. Again, I suggest OP report that person as you have already stated clearly they are violating the ToS.

OP claims they have no SS and that is fine. They can still report the player with the information they provided. We all have a responsibility to report players that are behaving in a manner like this because it is bad for the game. @Aideian Please help look after the health of the game as you clearly have solid information that someone is exploiting.

Elsonso · August 2020

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

You seem to have ruled out the intemediate case in which a human actively plays a character and has his actions immediately copied by a bunch of clones.

I want to comment that multiboxing is prohibited by the ToS. In the past, I have read stuff from people who claim that multiboxing should be OK because the player is actively controlling the first character. A common defense is that "other MMOs" allow it.

idk wrote: »

They can still report the player with the information they provided. We all have a responsibility to report players that are behaving in a manner like this because it is bad for the game.

To add... A similar statement is actually written into the ToS. Players in the game are asked to report this sort of behavior to ZOS.

Ascarl · August 2020

Tandor wrote: »

I've no idea about any of that, but there are clearly pre-programmed bots. PC NA has a trio of sorcerers running a set route in Khenarthi's Roost just killing mud crabs, you can see them 24/7. Occasionally I enjoy running slightly ahead of them and killing the mudcrabs before they get to them !

The problem of this game is that there a dozens of moderaturs around to intervene for about anything.

In game cheaters like this exist for years and there is no staff around to ban them.

I see a heavy disparity here. They need to shift focus on having maybe four to five moderators and setting up the rest of manpower on in-game problems.

idk · August 2020

Elsonso wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

You seem to have ruled out the intemediate case in which a human actively plays a character and has his actions immediately copied by a bunch of clones.

I want to comment that multiboxing is prohibited by the ToS. In the past, I have read stuff from people who claim that multiboxing should be OK because the player is actively controlling the first character. A common defense is that "other MMOs" allow it.

@Elsonso

Zos has specifically said we can play more than one account at a time, including multi-boxing on one PC or multiple PCs. So without a doubt, multi-boxing is permitted by Zos.

What is not permitted is having third party software control any character.

Edit: To be clear, the link Elsonso provided in their post specifically speaks to using third-party means to control the account. Again, Zos has been very specific in saying it is permitted to use multiple accounts at the same time as long as we are controlling them ourselves and not using third-party applications of any kind to control them.

Below is a comment made by Jessica on the subject. That constitutes an official statement from Zos on the matter.

In this player's instance, they have two separate accounts and are logging into them separately but on the same PC. They aren't simultaneously playing the two characters or using any hardware or software to automate movement, gameplay, etc. Rather, they're playing one character at a time while the other character is standing idle nearby, then alt-tabbing to switch over when they need to control the other character. And they're doing so for basic personal convenience, such as to access their Merchant or Bank Assistants that they have on only one account.

While this may be a little clunky and could result in some PC slow-down, the general idea is fine. Now that said, if we find that someone is doing this as a means to violate our EULA or other Terms of Service rules in other ways, we may deem it actionable.

As far as this thread goes, OP does not know if bots are being used or not, just that someone is paying real-world money for others to do significant farming. Considering they appear to be paid extremely low wages it would seem more likely than not the story being told by the OP is that of actual bots being used to farm.

Elsonso · August 2020

@idk if you look at my comment about multibixing, and what you quoted, you will see that I linked directly to the statement from ZOS specifically prohibiting Multiboxing. If they have changed this, they need to edit, or remove, that statement.

(Edit: And just to be clear, the comments are directed at multiboxing, not logging into multiple accounts at the same time, which is something different)

idk · August 2020

Elsonso wrote: »

@idk if you look at my comment about multibixing, and what you quoted, you will see that I linked directly to the statement from ZOS specifically prohibiting Multiboxing. If they have changed this, they need to edit, or remove, that statement.

(Edit: And just to be clear, the comments are directed at multiboxing, not logging into multiple accounts at the same time, which is something different)

@Elsonso Read what you quoted a little closer and it becomes clear that Support article is speaking to using hardware or software to control the accounts. In fact, they even state, "To be clear" at the start of the sentence stating that.

To be clear, players are welcome to have multiple accounts. However, using hardware or software to play them all at the same time is not allowed on any ESO service.

That support article is dated 2/28/2018 while the link below is the comment from Jessica this past December that specifically states it is permitted own multiple accounts and be logged into those accounts at the same time as long as you are the one controlling the characters and not third party methods. It is not in conflict with what you posted because your link speaks to the use of third party methods to control accounts. Both are very clear on the matter.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6488114#Comment_6488114

Nairinhe · August 2020

idk wrote: »

it is permitted own multiple accounts and be logged into those accounts at the same time as long as you are the one controlling the characters

And not playing several characters simultaneously:

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

They aren't simultaneously playing the two characters or using any hardware or software to automate movement, gameplay, etc. Rather, they're playing one character at a time while the other character is standing idle nearby, then alt-tabbing to switch over when they need to control the other character.

idk · August 2020

Nairinhe wrote: »

idk wrote: »

it is permitted own multiple accounts and be logged into those accounts at the same time as long as you are the one controlling the characters

And not playing several characters simultaneously:

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

They aren't simultaneously playing the two characters or using any hardware or software to automate movement, gameplay, etc. Rather, they're playing one character at a time while the other character is standing idle nearby, then alt-tabbing to switch over when they need to control the other character.

Oh, correct and I was completely clear about that. We can be logged into multiple accounts, and characters on each account simultaneously, but have to control each one personally and manually.

It is not owning and being logged into multiple accounts that is the issue. It is when someone is using third party means to control the accounts which is an issue even if there is only one account involved.

Heck, I can own and be logged into a dozen or even a hundred accounts at the same time but have to change to the PC for that account (or desktop instance on same PC) to control any specific account personally.

That is clear from Jessica's comment and is not in conflict with the support article Elsonso linked.

Edit: So the rest of the accounts are just standing there (or maybe on autorun) while only one account is actually doing anything. Really, the only good reason for any of this is spying in Cyrodiil, using a banker from an alt account, or doing random GF dungeons without having to deal with anyone else, essentially solo those dungeons while four accounts get the random GF reward.

idk · August 2020

And again, what is described in the OP sounds like a bot pimp is paying others real-world money to bot farm. Nowhere in the OP does @Aideian show how their friend demonstrated the people the friend pays are not running bots. The comment that they pay them such cheap rates to farm what sounds like extensive hours makes it sound like bots.

Aideian · August 2020

I think a lot of people misunderstood me, when I mean the bots are not bots I don’t mean there’s no computer software involved their definitely is but not all of them are using it, some are doing actual manual work at least on console, I’m sure it’s a lot easier to run the software on pc not even sure if it is possible to do on console I have no idea how the software works. He is no friend of mine I got in contact with him because I wanted to make a lot of gold and was curious how he did it and he told me a lot of legit ways to do so and then he told me his biggest money maker which is paying people to farm/bot for him and that most of the top richest people use them. Like I said I have no proof of our conversation so I couldn’t report if I wanted to, it was by mic, a dev has already reached out to me about it.

Tandor · August 2020

Ascarl wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I've no idea about any of that, but there are clearly pre-programmed bots. PC NA has a trio of sorcerers running a set route in Khenarthi's Roost just killing mud crabs, you can see them 24/7. Occasionally I enjoy running slightly ahead of them and killing the mudcrabs before they get to them !

The problem of this game is that there a dozens of moderaturs around to intervene for about anything.

In game cheaters like this exist for years and there is no staff around to ban them.

I see a heavy disparity here. They need to shift focus on having maybe four to five moderators and setting up the rest of manpower on in-game problems.

I'm not aware that there are that many moderators, at least in terms of full-time equivalents. If there are, however, then that is down to the players. If they insist on constantly posting negative diatribes rather than constructive criticisms then ZOS will employ more moderators to deal with it. They know that the public forums are the window onto the game for prospective players so they need to maintain a level of decorum here. It's up to the players whether the moderators are needed.

Jeremy · August 2020

Aideian wrote: »

So a lot of people are aware of the “bots” that’s on every platform that farms mats I mostly see them in Betnikh, I talked to a major figure probably one of the richest players in eso on console I won’t specify the console their on or their name. He told me he actually pays people with real money to farm for him and I won’t be specific who he gets to do it but he pays them very minimal to farm all day, I told him that’s basically virtual slavery what he pays them and how long they work and obviously illegal I’m assuming, but he brushed it off and insisted they basically run the eso economy and without them it would crash. Unfortunately he’s not the only one who does it, he told me there’s a lot people who do it. I have no proof of our conversation because it was by mic so I couldn’t get him banned if I wanted to.

The bots are not bots they’re actual people who spend all day farming for little pay and the ones who control them basically run the eso economy to prove this to me a long time ago one raised the price of a mat singlehandedly and everyone followed suit.

Yeah there are sweat shops out there that hire gold sellers to farm. It's an entire industry, especially popular in Asia.

But there are bots out there too. You can usually tell because they are all synchronized and move and attack at the same time. I've been seeing quite a few bot trains in Harridan's Lair (Greenshade). I reported them too. I should head back there today and see if ZoS got them.

Aideian · August 2020

Whether you believe me or not is fine, I just though I’d share this experience since it gave me incite and at the same time troubled me knowing there’s some people who make their money by doing this and it’s all because of some greedy people who want to make virtual money in a video game and to have power, quite sad actually that you have to resolve to that to do so and can’t just be legit like all of us here at least I hope all of us here are legit. Unfortunately I don’t see this ever changing since it’s been going on for years and nothing has been done about it although I will say eso isn’t the only mmo who has them so it’s not like we can blame Zenimax I guess it’s just something we have to knowingly accept and deal with.

FlopsyPrince · August 2020

This is likely against the ESO terms of service, but some of you need to get off your high horses a bit and realize even low wage farming work might be more than they could make otherwise.

Many do not think this through. Sometimes "slave labor" like this is better than starving with "no labor". Keep that in mind (do some research on the topic) before you have a knee jerk reaction against the concept.

It reminds me of the "dating" I see in a lot of fantasy anime and books/webnovels. Idiotic as only the modern age had the idea of dating, and that was very recent. Keep in mind that the world doesn't work as nice and neatly as us with "first world problems" often think.

That is true whether it is the past or other parts of the world.

idk · August 2020

Aideian wrote: »

I think a lot of people misunderstood me, when I mean the bots are not bots I don’t mean there’s no computer software involved their definitely is but not all of them are using it, some are doing actual manual work at least on console, I’m sure it’s a lot easier to run the software on pc not even sure if it is possible to do on console I have no idea how the software works. He is no friend of mine I got in contact with him because I wanted to make a lot of gold and was curious how he did it and he told me a lot of legit ways to do so and then he told me his biggest money maker which is paying people to farm/bot for him and that most of the top richest people use them. Like I said I have no proof of our conversation so I couldn’t report if I wanted to, it was by mic, a dev has already reached out to me about it.

@Aideian

Actually, you did way the bots are not bots. That is fairly all inclusive and is in the title.

Further, nothing in the OP suggests that your friend is not hiring people using bots. They would have had to find a lot of very dumb people willing to spend very long hours making very little (according to what is said in the OP) or is paying people who run bots.

Essentially, you are talking a person word for it as that is all they provided. They would like someone who runs bots or is a bot pimp.

BTW, we can report these things and should want to. Zos has logs and can trace things and monitor behavior. They do not have to rely on us to take SS for everything. When it smells foul something is likely wrong and your friends story smells very foul.

idk · August 2020

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

This is likely against the ESO terms of service, but some of you need to get off your high horses a bit and realize even low wage farming work might be more than they could make otherwise.

Many do not think this through. Sometimes "slave labor" like this is better than starving with "no labor". Keep that in mind (do some research on the topic) before you have a knee jerk reaction against the concept.

It reminds me of the "dating" I see in a lot of fantasy anime and books/webnovels. Idiotic as only the modern age had the idea of dating, and that was very recent. Keep in mind that the world doesn't work as nice and neatly as us with "first world problems" often think.

That is true whether it is the past or other parts of the world.

@FlopsyPrince

Actually, a lot of bots are run from countries with lower wages. It just so happens it costs less to run an operation like these as the cost for the game and equipment tends to be less. Thing is, even in countries with very low wages it still costs less and is more reliable to have a program do the work than to pay the "slave wages" being discussed here.

Honestly, someone is willing to work for next to nothing but can afford a PC which is very much a luxury item? Very unlikely and less likely that someone could afford to set all that up and not figure out how to operate bot programs. I would link some of the simple information out there on creating bots but of course, that would be in violation of forum rules.

So no high horse here.

Aideian · August 2020

idk wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

This is likely against the ESO terms of service, but some of you need to get off your high horses a bit and realize even low wage farming work might be more than they could make otherwise.

Many do not think this through. Sometimes "slave labor" like this is better than starving with "no labor". Keep that in mind (do some research on the topic) before you have a knee jerk reaction against the concept.

It reminds me of the "dating" I see in a lot of fantasy anime and books/webnovels. Idiotic as only the modern age had the idea of dating, and that was very recent. Keep in mind that the world doesn't work as nice and neatly as us with "first world problems" often think.

That is true whether it is the past or other parts of the world.

@FlopsyPrince

Actually, a lot of bots are run from countries with lower wages. It just so happens it costs less to run an operation like these as the cost for the game and equipment tends to be less. Thing is, even in countries with very low wages it still costs less and is more reliable to have a program do the work than to pay the "slave wages" being discussed here.

Honestly, someone is willing to work for next to nothing but can afford a PC which is very much a luxury item? Very unlikely and less likely that someone could afford to set all that up and not figure out how to operate bot programs. I would link some of the simple information out there on creating bots but of course, that would be in violation of forum rules.

So no high horse here.

You don’t have to buy a pc you could go to a Internet café even though they’re more prominent in Asia and I’m sure even from there if you know what you’re doing you could still run the computer software. Not even sure how they play games on the pc’s there but they do.

Arunei · August 2020

What you're describing and what bots actually are are two completely different things, OP. Bots are very much a real thing in this game, they've existed since it launched (and they used to be much, much worse than they are today, though they're still a big problem). A person farming for hours and hours day in and day out is not what people consider a bot. A bot has a programmed route with programmed stops and programmed actions that they will follow without fail regardless of whether their target is present or not. Bots also typically run in groups, not alone, though this isn't always the case. You can usually tell a bot from an actual player farming if you just spend some time observing what they're doing, especially the ones that farm mobs for drops.

So while there may be players that are actually being paid to farm for others, nothing about that points to bots being real players and not bots.

Aideian · August 2020

Arunei wrote: »

What you're describing and what bots actually are are two completely different things, OP. Bots are very much a real thing in this game, they've existed since it launched (and they used to be much, much worse than they are today, though they're still a big problem). A person farming for hours and hours day in and day out is not what people consider a bot. A bot has a programmed route with programmed stops and programmed actions that they will follow without fail regardless of whether their target is present or not. Bots also typically run in groups, not alone, though this isn't always the case. You can usually tell a bot from an actual player farming if you just spend some time observing what they're doing, especially the ones that farm mobs for drops.

So while there may be players that are actually being paid to farm for others, nothing about that points to bots being real players and not bots.

I’m saying this because most people who see “bots” automatically assume their bots not actual people but again I never said they weren’t two different things. Some of them are real people some of them are computer scripted not denying that, but people would assume their bots just because they act like them like farming for hours and maybe even the same path repetitively and don’t think there is actual people putting in manual work for hours and little pay.

Arunei · August 2020

Aideian wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

What you're describing and what bots actually are are two completely different things, OP. Bots are very much a real thing in this game, they've existed since it launched (and they used to be much, much worse than they are today, though they're still a big problem). A person farming for hours and hours day in and day out is not what people consider a bot. A bot has a programmed route with programmed stops and programmed actions that they will follow without fail regardless of whether their target is present or not. Bots also typically run in groups, not alone, though this isn't always the case. You can usually tell a bot from an actual player farming if you just spend some time observing what they're doing, especially the ones that farm mobs for drops.

So while there may be players that are actually being paid to farm for others, nothing about that points to bots being real players and not bots.

I’m saying this because most people who see “bots” automatically assume their bots not actual people but again I never said they weren’t two different things. Some of them are real people some of them are computer scripted not denying that, but people would assume their bots just because they act like them like farming for hours and maybe even the same path repetitively and don’t think there is actual people putting in manual work for hours and little pay.

Ah, in that case you might want to edit your thread title and add that to your OP, because it sounds like you're saying that ALL bots aren't actually bots and are instead people farming. But yes, it does happen often that people will watch someone for a handful of seconds and then automatically accuse that person of being a bot, without actually looking for telltale signs. I used to farm Seeker's Archive for hours at a time a few years ago, I don't really do it much these days, but I'm sure I got reported for botting at least once or twice haha. I just happen to have a very specific route and know where everything spawns in the circuit I run (because I farmed that specific spot for about two or so years before I stopped bothering with it so much, you learn where everything is in that time period).

Elsonso · August 2020

Aideian wrote: »

I’m saying this because most people who see “bots” automatically assume their bots not actual people but again I never said they weren’t two different things. Some of them are real people some of them are computer scripted not denying that, but people would assume their bots just because they act like them like farming for hours and maybe even the same path repetitively and don’t think there is actual people putting in manual work for hours and little pay.

It does not take long to tell the difference between someone who follows the same path repetitively and an automated character running a path.

If someone honestly thinks a character is a bot, they should report it. The burden of determining whether it is a human or computer player fall on ZOS, not us.