For all who complain about jabs...

LuxLunae · August 2020

I agree with you, I have been playing templar for ages. I came to realize that all the class has is jabs.
Templar is jabs, Jabs is templar. This is because as new classes were created, whatever templar was was stripped out and placed on other classes.
Templar became boring to play. All I could do was jab, jab, jab, jab. Everybody knows what's coming...Jabs....it has no type of strategy anymore....you just jab....
The templar class is TOO DEPENDENT ON JABS AND NO CLASS SHOULD EVER BE DEPENDENT ON ONE SKILL YET ZOS KEEPS MAKING MORE CHANGES DOING THAT!!!

I don't understand how people can say templar has an identity....You can replace all of what templar is and place the jab stick....We should all be floating freaking jab sticks in game....

TEMPLARS SHOULD BE THE NEW MORKULDIN BLADE EXCEPT LOOKING LIKE THE JAB STICK!!!!

It's not my fault I AM FORCED TO USE JABS BECAUSE I HAVE NO OTHER WORTH WHILE SKILL IN MY CLASS SET!!!

At max I use 3 skills at min I use one....I constantly ask myself.. "Why am I a templar?"

Everyone who is successful on templar uses a meta set that is far better on any other class .

I am speaking from the perspective of Stamplar.

For those who "successfully" play stamplar in pvp or pve, tell me your build and your skills you have slotted on.

technohic · August 2020

Well yeah. Other classes you are stuck with dizzy mostly but you have defensive abilities, streaks, cloaks, some DOTs, some have good stam ultimates, delayed burst that doesnt require you to build up the damage on it. Major fracture, major defile, maim. Major or even minor expedition built in

Stamplar is purely Jabs, burning light, and extended ritual. Its not bad but yes; pretty simplistic. Not a lot of defense, debuff nor utility.

Firstmep · August 2020

LuxLunae wrote: »

I agree with you, I have been playing templar for ages. I came to realize that all the class has is jabs.
Templar is jabs, Jabs is templar. This is because as new classes were created, whatever templar was was stripped out and placed on other classes.
Templar became boring to play. All I could do was jab, jab, jab, jab. Everybody knows what's coming...Jabs....it has no type of strategy anymore....you just jab....
The templar class is TOO DEPENDENT ON JABS AND NO CLASS SHOULD EVER BE DEPENDENT ON ONE SKILL YET ZOS KEEPS MAKING MORE CHANGES DOING THAT!!!

I don't understand how people can say templar has an identity....You can replace all of what templar is and place the jab stick....We should all be floating freaking jab sticks in game....

TEMPLARS SHOULD BE THE NEW MORKULDIN BLADE EXCEPT LOOKING LIKE THE JAB STICK!!!!

It's not my fault I AM FORCED TO USE JABS BECAUSE I HAVE NO OTHER WORTH WHILE SKILL IN MY CLASS SET!!!

At max I use 3 skills at min I use one....I constantly ask myself.. "Why am I a templar?"

Everyone who is successful on templar uses a meta set that is far better on any other class .

I am speaking from the perspective of Stamplar.

For those who "successfully" play stamplar in pvp or pve, tell me your build and your skills you have slotted on.

This morning I got into a low mmr bg on my new sorc.
There were 3 lowish cp stamplars, trying to jab their hearts out.
Ended up farming them pretty hard.

Anyway defensively Templar is just not there, despite what a certain popular streamer might have you belive, you won't just magically heal to full with a single wave of your hand.
That's petsorc.
I am so glad magDK self healing is getting buffed, so coag will be stronger than breath, on a class that already has major mending and a plethora of healing bonuses.

Casul · August 2020

All I know is when I made my stamplar jabs did a ****load of damage. But ironically I got bored of it extremely quickly. Now I'm on to nightblade.

BNOC · August 2020

I agree there's no strategy and it's predictable.

It was just as predictable fighting a stam player - you already knew the Dizzy, ult, exe combo is all they were likely coming with, it's just a shame we (magplar) don't hit as hard, or as often, or that our burst is literally on a timer and not instant cast etc;

Every patch people on the current 3 button meta class whisper me and tell me "templar op" but will continue to mindlessly play their 3 button meta and bang the majority of people they fight the entire patch whilst claiming skill and moaning about templars - Some people know absolutely nothing about this game except for whatever is easiest and I think ZOS caters that.

We needed more but because of these kinds of people we only got less.

We used to have a lot more and whilst everyone else did too, I don't think any identity has been stripped as hard as Templar was.

Aznarb · August 2020

AcadianPaladin · August 2020

Though I understand the intent with this thread, here is my fear:

ZoS: "Sounds like these guys want us to nerf jabs. . . ."

Athyrium93 · August 2020

Aznarb wrote: »

Except we don't have a right rook... just another jab

Everest_Lionheart · August 2020

It’s an EZ mode AOE death machine perfect for farming stuff in PvE whole bringing enough utility to groups to make it worth everyone time. Don’t have to wait for queues on half the pledges because it can solo easily. Daily pugs nobody ever seems to mind because I feed them spears and never end up on the floor. But the class identity IS jabs (sweeps in my case) and AOE instant deaths to trash mobs.

Contrast that to my stamden who does have some class identity but honestly nearly all Stamwardens are identical except maybe a different spamable. We are all running the netch, sub assault, growing swarm, bear, trap beast, endless hail. You are slotting Vigor or green lotus as your heal over time and one of the warden based shields. That less leaves your spamable either one from DW/2H or cutting dive. Finally your flex spot a burst heal from the warden line works nice here or soul trap for an extra dot to give you some sustain relief.

So you see warden has identity sure, but it all tastes the same. It’s like buying vanilla ice cream from breyers, baskin robins, or generic store brand. It all tastes the same no matter how fancy or expensive the packaging!

Chilly-McFreeze · August 2020

Athyrium93 wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

Except we don't have a right rook... just another jab

Of course you have. Try dizzy. ^^

Gorreck · August 2020

Once the AOE cd's go live (along with the changes to burning light and to some degree RoR), there will be no such thing as a Stamplar anymore. :'(

gatekeeper13 · August 2020

We use Jabs because.... there is no other stamina alternative skill. Only Jabs, you can't use anything else. Almost all other Templar skills are magicka based.

So what should a stamplar use if not jabs? And how is jabs bad but somehow Executioner spamming is ok?

WhyMustItBe · August 2020

The change to solar prison was sort of interesting from a PVP perspective, if I played PVP that is.

The main problem I have with Templar is there is too much setup for anything other than jabs, mainly because they have no "fire and forget" source of Major Sorcery like the vast majority of other classes, so you have to constantly chug potions or slot Entropy which is another global cooldown that requires a target and so can't be used out of combat, which makes keeping it up while moving from mob pack to mob pack kind or tedious.

To be honest most class design in this game is pretty homogenized and unimaginative at this point. I really think they should have kept the balancing cookie cutter specific to when in PVP content and allowed abilities to behave differently in PVE so that more interesting and creative things were possible.

Instead we have another MMO company that refuses to treat balancing PVE and PVP as the fundamentally separate and irreconcilably different things they are, and mashes everything down to a lowest common denominator to save costs.

Literally everyone does this though, so I guess that makes it acceptable. /shrug

Ryuvain · August 2020

I understand how it's all templar has, but it's still annoying. It's all I see spammed on pvp and still spammed on pve. People switch to templar because it's good and easy.

I'm the other hand, the other easy spam route is dizzy-exe. Spam dizzy till they're half then spam exe. The rest of the spam is snipe.

Long story short, still hate even seeing the animation.

ArchMikem · August 2020

An AoE that hits multiple times AND snares the target so they can't get away, and can also heal the caster. Its obvious there's no alternative because it's the best thing you could use, nothing compares.

UGotBenched91 · August 2020

LuxLunae wrote: »

I agree with you, I have been playing templar for ages. I came to realize that all the class has is jabs.
Templar is jabs, Jabs is templar. This is because as new classes were created, whatever templar was was stripped out and placed on other classes.
Templar became boring to play. All I could do was jab, jab, jab, jab. Everybody knows what's coming...Jabs....it has no type of strategy anymore....you just jab....
The templar class is TOO DEPENDENT ON JABS AND NO CLASS SHOULD EVER BE DEPENDENT ON ONE SKILL YET ZOS KEEPS MAKING MORE CHANGES DOING THAT!!!

I don't understand how people can say templar has an identity....You can replace all of what templar is and place the jab stick....We should all be floating freaking jab sticks in game....

TEMPLARS SHOULD BE THE NEW MORKULDIN BLADE EXCEPT LOOKING LIKE THE JAB STICK!!!!

It's not my fault I AM FORCED TO USE JABS BECAUSE I HAVE NO OTHER WORTH WHILE SKILL IN MY CLASS SET!!!

At max I use 3 skills at min I use one....I constantly ask myself.. "Why am I a templar?"

Everyone who is successful on templar uses a meta set that is far better on any other class .

I am speaking from the perspective of Stamplar.

For those who "successfully" play stamplar in pvp or pve, tell me your build and your skills you have slotted on.

Nothing more satisfying than killing a jabular in PVP.

TineaCruris · August 2020

LuxLunae wrote: »

I agree with you, I have been playing templar for ages. I came to realize that all the class has is jabs.
Templar is jabs, Jabs is templar. This is because as new classes were created, whatever templar was was stripped out and placed on other classes.
Templar became boring to play. All I could do was jab, jab, jab, jab. Everybody knows what's coming...Jabs....it has no type of strategy anymore....you just jab....
The templar class is TOO DEPENDENT ON JABS AND NO CLASS SHOULD EVER BE DEPENDENT ON ONE SKILL YET ZOS KEEPS MAKING MORE CHANGES DOING THAT!!!

I don't understand how people can say templar has an identity....You can replace all of what templar is and place the jab stick....We should all be floating freaking jab sticks in game....

TEMPLARS SHOULD BE THE NEW MORKULDIN BLADE EXCEPT LOOKING LIKE THE JAB STICK!!!!

It's not my fault I AM FORCED TO USE JABS BECAUSE I HAVE NO OTHER WORTH WHILE SKILL IN MY CLASS SET!!!

At max I use 3 skills at min I use one....I constantly ask myself.. "Why am I a templar?"

Everyone who is successful on templar uses a meta set that is far better on any other class .

I am speaking from the perspective of Stamplar.

For those who "successfully" play stamplar in pvp or pve, tell me your build and your skills you have slotted on.

I will not tell you my build, but rest assured, Templars are not dead, nor is it defined by jabs. ....certainly not in the same way that NB is defined by cloak.

volkeswagon · August 2020

l love the simplicity and effectiveness of jabs. It and flurry are my fav skills

oregonrob · August 2020

I have been playing templars for years. For the first six months I played I never used puncturing strikes at all and did fine. It all comes down to how you choose to play the class. I do use puncturing strikes as part of my rotation now but it is only part of the rotation that involves four different skills. If someone feels templar is too easy or is too boring, then play another class. If you can get by with templar doing nothing but puncturing strikes, then congratulations. I have found I cannot do that when I solo dungeons. As for PVP, I find that a magsorc and magden work better for me in PVP that a templar and I rarely use one in PVP. Bottom line, play what you want to play but lets try and not toss the nerf ball around.

Everest_Lionheart · August 2020

oregonrob wrote: »

I have been playing templars for years. For the first six months I played I never used puncturing strikes at all and did fine. It all comes down to how you choose to play the class. I do use puncturing strikes as part of my rotation now but it is only part of the rotation that involves four different skills. If someone feels templar is too easy or is too boring, then play another class. If you can get by with templar doing nothing but puncturing strikes, then congratulations. I have found I cannot do that when I solo dungeons. As for PVP, I find that a magsorc and magden work better for me in PVP that a templar and I rarely use one in PVP. Bottom line, play what you want to play but lets try and not toss the nerf ball around.

I think people are asking for more out of Templar here, not necessarily a nerf. The problem with the class is that jabs is the first skill that you do get and it becomes more of a crutch keeping people from exploring more of the class because of it’s effectiveness. The real pitfall with jabs comes with overcasting. People lean on it so heavily that they can run out of rss in longer battles and end up not having their jabs when they need them most which end up in them being knocked to the floor.

I run a solo magplar and sweeps is a bread and butter skill mostly to finish off trash mobs but also needed for longer boss fights where you have to manage other dots as well as sustain so you can’t endlessly spam them or eventually you’ll run out of rss and be in a tough spot. In a group setting though I can spam sweeps all day long and eat synergies to keep my sustain going. I supposed magicka wise you could pull a skill like force pulse off the destro staff line but that doesn’t come with the benefit of the free heals.

To be fair though other classes have skills you are forced to take as well but none of them are available so early to you like jabs is on Templar.

doomette · August 2020

volkeswagon wrote: »

l love the simplicity and effectiveness of jabs. It and flurry are my fav skills

I find it more reliable than DS in lag, so it’s nice to be able to use a 2H front bar and still have my hits connect.

AcadianPaladin · August 2020

Sap Essense: 'Siphon the vigor from your enemies' blood, dealing 2321 Magic Damage to all nearby enemies and healing you and your allies for [772 / 780 / 787 / 800] plus 20% more for each enemy hit. If an enemy is hit, you gain Major Brutality and Sorcery, increasing your Weapon and Spell Damage by 20% for 20 seconds.'

Gee, a magblade is nothing but sap, sap, sap?

Seriously, I run a healplar and a bowplar. Both use jabs and it is a very solid skill, but it is no more important than any other skill they run. I often duo with a magplar dps who does not even slot jabs in favor of focusing on ranged attacks.

LuxLunae · August 2020

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

Sap Essense: 'Siphon the vigor from your enemies' blood, dealing 2321 Magic Damage to all nearby enemies and healing you and your allies for [772 / 780 / 787 / 800] plus 20% more for each enemy hit. If an enemy is hit, you gain Major Brutality and Sorcery, increasing your Weapon and Spell Damage by 20% for 20 seconds.'

Gee, a magblade is nothing but sap, sap, sap?

Seriously, I run a healplar and a bowplar. Both use jabs and it is a very solid skill, but it is no more important than any other skill they run. I often duo with a magplar dps who does not even slot jabs in favor of focusing on ranged attacks.

That is the point bro, at that point why be a templar? If you are not going to use the templar skills why be one?

Cadbury · August 2020

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

Though I understand the intent with this thread, here is my fear:

ZoS: "Sounds like these guys want us to nerf jabs. . . ."

If these cooldown changes come to pass, I imagine that is exactly what will happen to Jabs. Best case scenario is that jabs will become a single target spammable, possibly along the lines of Stone Giant and the upcoming Sorc frags stam morph.

maxjapank · August 2020

ArchMikem wrote: »

An AoE that hits multiple times AND snares the target so they can't get away, and can also heal the caster. Its obvious there's no alternative because it's the best thing you could use, nothing compares.

That aoe is a channel which also snares the Templar. If there was no snare on the target at all, every player would easily out distance the Templar, which still happens quite often. The heal is also comparable to other skills, but again the Templar must be in melee range and attacking in order to receive the heals. There is no way to range attack and get healed or get a hot that is on the caster while they are running.

It’s like some posters in here have never played a Templar before.

fullheartcontainer · August 2020

Gorreck wrote: »

Once the AOE cd's go live (along with the changes to burning light and to some degree RoR), there will be no such thing as a Stamplar anymore. :'(

People complain about stamplar power but it's because the only people who still play stamplar are the players who are good enough to deal with the drawbacks. Exactly as you say though, once AOE dies Stamplar is going to be finally irredeemably dead. I mean really, once you take away jabs what does stamplar have left? A magicka based purge that will also be on AOE CD? They'll have no more way to proc Burning Light. PotL was nerfed. The class shield ability is magicka based and poorly done. They have poor mobility. They have trouble running full stamina builds and often have to put points in health.

Everest_Lionheart · August 2020

maxjapank wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

An AoE that hits multiple times AND snares the target so they can't get away, and can also heal the caster. Its obvious there's no alternative because it's the best thing you could use, nothing compares.

That aoe is a channel which also snares the Templar. If there was no snare on the target at all, every player would easily out distance the Templar, which still happens quite often. The heal is also comparable to other skills, but again the Templar must be in melee range and attacking in order to receive the heals. There is no way to range attack and get healed or get a hot that is on the caster while they are running.

It’s like some posters in here have never played a Templar before.

I went up against a couple jab spammers last night in a BG match. I let them spam their hearts out into my shield dropped all my AOE, CCed them spun around the back side and executed them. I must have got the one guy 3-4 times in a row. There was furious stabbing, but once I’ve built up all my AOE and my drop my Ultimate (bear charges fast on warden) the executes are ready all that stabbing is for nothing.

honey_badger82 · August 2020

All the cool down timers are in cyrodiil only right? All the patch notes say "when in cyrodiil" so PvE wise, this means nothing. Other then the RoR global change which makes the skill unusable, I already moved it off my stamplar's bar to learn to do without it. I may change the morph to extended Ritual but without DoT + HoT it's rather wasted on a DPS templar. Magplars will just use spear shards, it's cheaper, does more damage and provides a synergy.

Kavar162 · August 2020

I was really loving blood for blood on my templar but oh well I guess it's back to stage 1 vamp

Drdeath20 · August 2020

If you havent moved on from a templar like 2 patches ago it is now or never time. Stamplar was interesting but other classes have more, do it better and have better build variety than a templar.

I swapped my dps to a magblade a few patches ago and i will never go back to a templar. They have fairly similar rotations in theory , both roughly built around a ~6 second heavy punch\animation cancel LA, except magblades have a strong ranged instant spammable that is a HoT and they do not need to completely lose their rotation when they get into execute. They were stronger dps before and they got straight buffs where templars got some serious heavy nerfs.

Templars needed buffs and they got nothing but nerfs. Stamplar needed pvp defensive skills, and magplar needed a whole lot of everything. Just let the class die and move on, there is absolutely zero reason to play 1 outside of the token healer.

CheeseyNugs · August 2020

I personally cannot wait for the AoE CD's, I'm sick of jabplars running grothdarr / zaan to cheese their way into some easy wins because they suck.

In saying that, ESO PvP is one of the most casual pvp games I have ever played, so it doesn't really matter at the end of the day