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Bow-Bow viable for vet dlc dg and vet Trials?
Vanagrand
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So i want to create a new char, mainly for PVE, it is any viable a bow/bow build for highend pve or it is really behind?
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Grandchamp1989✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I've tried to make Bow-Bow work many times with my Warden but he's always around 10k below my Magicka Templar.
I guess people can make it work but for me it underperforms heavily.5 -
AgaTheGreat✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's not viable in late end game at all. There's no point having a sub-par range character in your group when other range (magicka) classes outperform your build. Also most end game is now done on magicka characters because it's easier for support roles to spec for one type of DDs.PS4 EU Aga_The_Grey - retired | PC EU AgaTheGreat7 -
fargo_viper✭✭I’ve seen people pull 80k on a trial dummy with bow/bow, so from a straight damage perspective I’d say it’s viable.2
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Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If you are really good, it's viable. If you aren't then not really. My personal record is 68k on a bow/bow stamden.
We need to keep an eye on the upcoming Relequen and Tzogvin changes though because they might be bad news for BowBow builds.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.1 -
CyberSkooma✭✭✭✭✭Short Answer: Yes. But it depends how high you need to hit.I play this game a little bit I guess0 -
nesakinter✭✭✭✭If you are really good, it's viable. If you aren't then not really. My personal record is 68k on a bow/bow stamden.
We need to keep an eye on the upcoming Relequen and Tzogvin changes though because they might be bad news for BowBow builds.
68k is not truly viable though. 80k is minimum DPS you really want for smooth run.2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Viable is an extremely vague term. Would you find it in a competitive team that can easily clear all trials on vet HM viable or is there trial groups that run some vet trials where one could get away with such a build? I have been in a vet raid group where myself and three others were doing 70% of the damage. Not sure what the other five DPS were doing and I mean that literally. We cleared the trial but it was just craglorn trial.1 -
ClawOfTheTwoMoons✭✭✭✭nesakinter wrote: »If you are really good, it's viable. If you aren't then not really. My personal record is 68k on a bow/bow stamden.
We need to keep an eye on the upcoming Relequen and Tzogvin changes though because they might be bad news for BowBow builds.
68k is not truly viable though. 80k is minimum DPS you really want for smooth run.
68k is fine if you're not pushing scores and titles. I know he asked high end pve, but you could consider vet hardmode trials high end pve content, as many people don't do it. Your expectations are pretty high there.2 -
ccfeeling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭68k is really good enough to complete all game contents .
Just don't expect world first , score run , mechanics skipping , blah blah blah .
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Mindcr0w✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭To summarize:
Viable? Yes.
Optimal? No.
If your group is just trying to get clears and not push scores you'll be fine.3 -
Pink_Pixie✭✭✭I'm a bow/bow build and think I do fine, I also tend to think mechanics are more important than massive dps. Someone could hit 80k and die to mechanics all the time, where someone lower on the pecking order for dps, can do fine with said mechanics.
Working as a group is far more important than simply doing mega damage, but that is my opinion. I'll stick to my bow/bow as she is my achievement hunter, and favourite character.Edited by Pink_Pixie on August 3, 2020 6:39AM1 -
VoxAdActa✭✭✭✭✭nesakinter wrote: »If you are really good, it's viable. If you aren't then not really. My personal record is 68k on a bow/bow stamden.
We need to keep an eye on the upcoming Relequen and Tzogvin changes though because they might be bad news for BowBow builds.
68k is not truly viable though. 80k is minimum DPS you really want for smooth run.
I remember when 60k dps was elite top 0.1% of the playerbase.3 -
nesakinter✭✭✭✭nesakinter wrote: »If you are really good, it's viable. If you aren't then not really. My personal record is 68k on a bow/bow stamden.
We need to keep an eye on the upcoming Relequen and Tzogvin changes though because they might be bad news for BowBow builds.
68k is not truly viable though. 80k is minimum DPS you really want for smooth run.
I remember when 60k dps was elite top 0.1% of the playerbase.
6M dummy and Trial Dummy is very different. 60k on 6M Dummy is like 95k Trials Dummy. So 68k on Trials Dummy is like 40k on the old dummies. Which is quite low given how much higher ranged magicka options go nowadays.Edited by nesakinter on August 3, 2020 3:02AM2 -
Hotdog_23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭nesakinter wrote: »If you are really good, it's viable. If you aren't then not really. My personal record is 68k on a bow/bow stamden.
We need to keep an eye on the upcoming Relequen and Tzogvin changes though because they might be bad news for BowBow builds.
68k is not truly viable though. 80k is minimum DPS you really want for smooth run.
I remember when 60k dps was elite top 0.1% of the playerbase.
lol, I remember when 25-30k was top.Edited by Hotdog_23 on August 3, 2020 4:11AM3 -
Myyth✭✭✭✭✭I just finished changing my bow/bow characters to dual wield. I have completely given up on the idea of a ranged bow character. I tried bow warden, templar and sorcerer. The dps just wasn't sufficient for many vet dungeons where dps is required to defeat a boss. I could tell I was slowing down groups or causing the dungeon to fail. I strongly suggest not doing bow/bow for group content. It is completely viable for solo, but you will notice the lack of dps in groups. When I switched to dual wield I could really notice the difference. I am trying 2 handed with one character which so far is better than bow.Edited by Myyth on August 3, 2020 1:38PM2 -
Everest_Lionheart✭✭✭✭✭
✭I just finished changing my bow/bow characters to dual wield. I have completely given up on the idea of a ranged bow character. I tried bow warden, templar and sorcerer. The dps just wasn't sufficient for many vet dungeons where dps is required to defeat a boss. I could tell I was slowing down groups or causing the dungeon to fail. I strongly suggest not doing bow/bow for group content. It is completely viable for solo, but you will notice the lack of dps in groups. When I switched to dual wield I could really notice the difference. I am trying 2 handed with one character which so far is better than bow.
I’ve found in my experience with bow that sometimes it’s just hard to land the light attacks while weaving and moving around in a real fight situation. It’s no problem standing still but actively moving which you’ll be doing to avoid certain mechanics makes the bow less accurate. I prefer DW/Bow myself because you have options when you need an I your face bar and a ranged bar.
I main a Stamwarden where rotations are already a bit crazy to keep some of the dots and buffs up. Understating how to pace is the key to it all, but the bow bar definitely fires differently when I have to heavy attack for sustain. And yes heavy attacking is required every once in a while to maintain a regular pace so I have to make sure I’m doing it on the DW bar because the bow takes longer to fire, though a little truck with warden if you have bird of prey you can hit that and your bow will fire heavy attacks faster. Hold down heavy attack and fire off all your skills in between without letting go. It’s slightly slower than regular weaving but it will build up rss, at the cost of DPS of course. But if you are running cutting dive and taking advantage of the off balance proc where you can spam dive it helps to have to rss to cast it 4-5 times.
That’s warden though. There are a few times where you can optimize damage running a more dynamic rotation with other conditions also being met. That’s the trick to hitting the higher numbers and in a live battle situation it can get super hectic managing all of this.
I’ve though of going bow/bow on it but the DW bleed procs plus cutting dive are too much to give up. I’ve also considered magicka after this last patch but already run 2 mag toons for dungeons/trials and I’m getting tired of farming for gear that never drops!1 -
Iarao✭✭✭✭Viable is an extremely vague term. Would you find it in a competitive team that can easily clear all trials on vet HM viable or is there trial groups that run some vet trials where one could get away with such a build? I have been in a vet raid group where myself and three others were doing 70% of the damage. Not sure what the other five DPS were doing and I mean that literally. We cleared the trial but it was just craglorn trial.
i was probably one of those dps
not that i dont try hard. 0 -
MudcrabAttack✭✭✭✭✭One of the highest parsers in my trial guild doing typically vet hard mode stuff is on a bow bow blade, which is getting buffed next patch. Go figure. Probably wouldn't work so well for score pushing in most trials
When I swap my own Nightblade from a bow build to melee, the increase is only 3k DPS give or take. That's on PTS with the buffed advancing yokeda in a melee slot, but I'm not as good at weaving with melee skills as I am with bow.
The trick is not to limit yourself to only ranged damage skills. Pure ranged skills on a tzogvin build is kind of weak, and you may spend a big portion of the time in melee range anyway to get heals and buffs from your group.
I'm up to 78k on a dummy on live with a Bosmer nightblade, seen as high as 85k with an orc, which are the best archers in Tamriel.....Edited by MudcrabAttack on August 3, 2020 7:22PM0 -
Raudgrani✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stamina is generally frowned upon by "pro endgame groups". I really wish it was different, but it seems to be the case for yet some time. It's like "Oh... You are a STAMplar, ok..." among people you don't know. Always seen as a bit unwanted, "not-knowing-better" and suspicious, even if you do well. Sad. Simply.
As for the question, I guess it's like - yeah, you squeeze out tremendous DPS with bow/bow builds. I don't know. Perhaps maybe less than on some magicka builds - but still just as much or more than most individuals using those "better" magicka builds.
I've heard of Necromancer bow/bow builds doing the 80-90k DPS stuff, and StamDK's about the same. I've seen bow/bow Stamplar builds as well, but don't know how they really perform. These are viable for sure in the right hands, but I suppose you will be asked to use "something else" by most score run groups for the most demanding content. At least it's the impression I have. I don't really do that kind of stuff.
Much of the reason people want to see magicka, is probably because of strong shields and usually being ranged (now a lot of people use Blood for Blood, but that might change now...). I kind of speculate here though.1 -
You would think how iconic bows are is elder scrolls and the whole "aim" and "hold for heavy attack" - they would be comparable.
I first joined on a Stamblade bow user expecting greatness only to realize i do more damage and aoe with melee.
Retired the class and made it a skill alt.
" The trees, the earth, the sky, the waters; All play their part upon this land. May Guthix bring you balance. "0 -
Alidel✭✭✭✭I main bow-bow sorc, and so far have hit 78k (if you're intereted, https://esologs.com/reports/PdnZQ1v2YbNgx3Ak#fight=1&type=damage-done&source=1), though my rotation and execution isn't perfect by all means and highest bow-bow log currently is 89.5k on esologs. As bow-bow I've cleared some dlc dungeon hms, such as mazzatun, cradle of shadows, fang lair, scalecaller peak, falkreath hold, depth of malatar, frostvault, and vbrp. Is it viable? Of course. Is it good for pushing scores? I really don't know, as I'm not at that level yet as a player.Edited by Alidel on August 4, 2020 6:45AM2 -
colossalvoids✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Not for trials really as your damage depends on range and only place you'll have it is vAS hm which is pretty niche anyway.
For vet dlc dungeons and trifectas it's probably even preferable to go ranged over melee if it's a stam composition, lots of mechanics favour range and you'll lose way less damage this way. But still it's all about how you can perform.0 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm still very much a novice to the Bow/Bow scene but the incoming Morag Tong buff should help all Bow/Bow characters on the margins and stamCro, stamBlade, and stamDK (who need all the help they can get!) in particular.0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZvqvGuO0pY