High weapon damage but can't hurt anyone?

collin.desotoub17_ESO · July 2020

It seems like, in Cyrodil, I can walk up and slam multiple attacks into people but not scratch them.

I am currently a Stam necro with Ancient Dragonguard/New Moon. There are so many occasions where I simply can't hurt people who are letting me freely swing into them with dizzying/blastbones. My unbuffed weapon damage is 3600 and about 4500 buffed.

Is there something wrong with my setup? Is 4500 not enough?

This is No-CP by the way.

Unified_Gaming · July 2020

collin.desotoub17_ESO wrote: »

It seems like, in Cyrodil, I can walk up and slam multiple attacks into people but not scratch them.

I am currently a Stam necro with Ancient Dragonguard/New Moon. There are so many occasions where I simply can't hurt people who are letting me freely swing into them with dizzying/blastbones. My unbuffed weapon damage is 3600 and about 4500 buffed.

Is there something wrong with my setup? Is 4500 not enough?

This is No-CP by the way.

no - avoid CP builds for no cp and even with that damage you should do more damage so it's likely timing and combos. Most good builds should be 5k+ w/d as a minnum now days.

collin.desotoub17_ESO · July 2020

Unified_Gaming wrote: »

collin.desotoub17_ESO wrote: »

It seems like, in Cyrodil, I can walk up and slam multiple attacks into people but not scratch them.

I am currently a Stam necro with Ancient Dragonguard/New Moon. There are so many occasions where I simply can't hurt people who are letting me freely swing into them with dizzying/blastbones. My unbuffed weapon damage is 3600 and about 4500 buffed.

Is there something wrong with my setup? Is 4500 not enough?

This is No-CP by the way.

no - avoid CP builds for no cp and even with that damage you should do more damage so it's likely timing and combos. Most good builds should be 5k+ w/d as a minnum now days.

What should I be running then for No-CP? Pure damage sets? I didn't know this setup was not good in No cp.

Crixus8000 · July 2020

I think ancient dragonguard is a terrible set imo, compared to other choices at least.

Your major defile alone should carry you in no cp, focus on more sustain and survivability if you can. But I honestly don't think you should ever struggle killing anyone if you have major defile.

Unified_Gaming · July 2020

collin.desotoub17_ESO wrote: »

Unified_Gaming wrote: »

collin.desotoub17_ESO wrote: »

It seems like, in Cyrodil, I can walk up and slam multiple attacks into people but not scratch them.

I am currently a Stam necro with Ancient Dragonguard/New Moon. There are so many occasions where I simply can't hurt people who are letting me freely swing into them with dizzying/blastbones. My unbuffed weapon damage is 3600 and about 4500 buffed.

Is there something wrong with my setup? Is 4500 not enough?

This is No-CP by the way.

no - avoid CP builds for no cp and even with that damage you should do more damage so it's likely timing and combos. Most good builds should be 5k+ w/d as a minnum now days.

What should I be running then for No-CP? Pure damage sets? I didn't know this setup was not good in No cp.

Use infused jewellery and you'll see a big damahe boost - I would suggest just learning your combo as with major defile you should be slaughtering people with ease

MurderMostFoul · July 2020

Crixus8000 wrote: »

I think ancient dragonguard is a terrible set imo, compared to other choices at least.

Your major defile alone should carry you in no cp, focus on more sustain and survivability if you can. But I honestly don't think you should ever struggle killing anyone if you have major defile.

On high mobility builds in BGs, I do very well wearing ancient dragonguard + a damage set.

collin.desotoub17_ESO · July 2020

Would Clever Alchemist be better?

collin.desotoub17_ESO · July 2020

Unified_Gaming wrote: »

collin.desotoub17_ESO wrote: »

Unified_Gaming wrote: »

collin.desotoub17_ESO wrote: »

It seems like, in Cyrodil, I can walk up and slam multiple attacks into people but not scratch them.

I am currently a Stam necro with Ancient Dragonguard/New Moon. There are so many occasions where I simply can't hurt people who are letting me freely swing into them with dizzying/blastbones. My unbuffed weapon damage is 3600 and about 4500 buffed.

Is there something wrong with my setup? Is 4500 not enough?

This is No-CP by the way.

no - avoid CP builds for no cp and even with that damage you should do more damage so it's likely timing and combos. Most good builds should be 5k+ w/d as a minnum now days.

What should I be running then for No-CP? Pure damage sets? I didn't know this setup was not good in No cp.

Use infused jewellery and you'll see a big damahe boost - I would suggest just learning your combo as with major defile you should be slaughtering people with ease

I promise I generally blastbones > dizzying > if dizzying is not dodged Onslaught. Sometimes this literally does nothing but 99% of the time this combo is dodged.

MurderMostFoul · July 2020

collin.desotoub17_ESO wrote: »

Unified_Gaming wrote: »

collin.desotoub17_ESO wrote: »

Unified_Gaming wrote: »

collin.desotoub17_ESO wrote: »

It seems like, in Cyrodil, I can walk up and slam multiple attacks into people but not scratch them.

I am currently a Stam necro with Ancient Dragonguard/New Moon. There are so many occasions where I simply can't hurt people who are letting me freely swing into them with dizzying/blastbones. My unbuffed weapon damage is 3600 and about 4500 buffed.

Is there something wrong with my setup? Is 4500 not enough?

This is No-CP by the way.

no - avoid CP builds for no cp and even with that damage you should do more damage so it's likely timing and combos. Most good builds should be 5k+ w/d as a minnum now days.

What should I be running then for No-CP? Pure damage sets? I didn't know this setup was not good in No cp.

Use infused jewellery and you'll see a big damahe boost - I would suggest just learning your combo as with major defile you should be slaughtering people with ease

I promise I generally blastbones > dizzying < if dizzying is not dodged Onslaught. Sometimes this literally does nothing but 99% of the time this combo is dodged.

Are you partial heavy attack weaving your dizzy for instant stun?

Also, Dawnbreaker is cheaper and a lot more reliable than Onslaught.

Asardes · July 2020

No reason to run Ancient Dragonguard on a stamina build. Also having high weapon damage is not enough to burst people, you also need penetration (actually one of your most important things for damage) and since Necromancer lacks easy access to Major Fracture (can get it trough Unnerving Boneyard or Razor Caltrops but they're clunky AF in PvP) I recommend using maul and/or a penetration set like Spriggan. The less penetration you have the better mauls become since they have a 20% multiplier for the remaining resistance on targets after all other penetration sources (CP, debuffs, sharpened) have been substracted. Also it's important to heavy/medium weave with Dizzying Swing, and have the blast bones hit the target at the same time as one of the swings and/or heavy attack weaves for maximum effectiveness. This is my actual no-CP stam necro build - very tanky, excellent sustain and damage. It works quite well even on CP. http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=199649

MurderMostFoul · July 2020

Asardes wrote: »

No reason to run Ancient Dragonguard on a stamina build.

I honestly don't understand the hate people throw on Ancient Dragonguard. It's not good as a primary damage set, and it can't be relied upon for all of your defense, but it is a very good supplement to both.

I wouldn't run it on a tanky build that stays in the fight for extended periods, or any other kind of attrition build. But on high-damage, high-mobility builds in noCP, I've had great success with it.

Kadoin · July 2020

collin.desotoub17_ESO wrote: »

It seems like, in Cyrodil, I can walk up and slam multiple attacks into people but not scratch them.

I am currently a Stam necro with Ancient Dragonguard/New Moon. There are so many occasions where I simply can't hurt people who are letting me freely swing into them with dizzying/blastbones. My unbuffed weapon damage is 3600 and about 4500 buffed.

Is there something wrong with my setup? Is 4500 not enough?

This is No-CP by the way.

That's because by doing that you are giving your opponent free CC immunity. Once a player determines that you won't be able to kill them with a combination, the combination becomes worthless. This is especially true when it comes to ones that people commonly do that are entirely predictable.

collin.desotoub17_ESO · July 2020

Kadoin wrote: »

collin.desotoub17_ESO wrote: »

It seems like, in Cyrodil, I can walk up and slam multiple attacks into people but not scratch them.

I am currently a Stam necro with Ancient Dragonguard/New Moon. There are so many occasions where I simply can't hurt people who are letting me freely swing into them with dizzying/blastbones. My unbuffed weapon damage is 3600 and about 4500 buffed.

Is there something wrong with my setup? Is 4500 not enough?

This is No-CP by the way.

That's because by doing that you are giving your opponent free CC immunity. Once a player determines that you won't be able to kill them with a combination, the combination becomes worthless. This is especially true when it comes to ones that people commonly do that are entirely predictable.

Ok but no one, who is able to dish out damage, should be able to survive not dodging multiple attacks. I don't get your point.

Your response doesn't make much sense. The point is that the player, with my damage, should be dead after eating Blastbones, Dizzying, Onslaught, and multiple more dizzying swings.

Asardes · July 2020

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

No reason to run Ancient Dragonguard on a stamina build.

I honestly don't understand the hate people throw on Ancient Dragonguard. It's not good as a primary damage set, and it can't be relied upon for all of your defense, but it is a very good supplement to both.

I wouldn't run it on a tanky build that stays in the fight for extended periods, or any other kind of attrition build. But on high-damage, high-mobility builds in noCP, I've had great success with it.

Akaviri Dragonguard
(2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery -> pretty useless on Stam Necro since you're not spamming magicka abilities
(3 items) Adds 4% Healing Taken -> can be useful
(4 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health -> you get lots of HP from class passives, easy enough to hit 25K+ w/o any points
(5 items) Reduces the cost of your Ultimate abilities by 15%. -> that's basically the most important bonus of the set.

I mean the set can be good on some magicka classes, for example it's excellent on Magicka DK if you build tanky.

But for stamina there are better alternatives, namely:

Blessing of the Potentates
(2 items) Reduces your damage taken from Players by 5%. -> getting nerfed to 3% next patch but still pretty good
(3 items) Reduces the cost of your Ultimate abilities by 15%. -> the same ultimate cost reduction
Also opens 2 more slots that can be filled with some other set, for example arena weapons: For example (perfected) Stinging Slashes work really well on Necromancer due to the Rapid Rot passive.

Hide of the Werewolf
(2 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health -> you won't be lacking HP on Necromancer, but still not wasted
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina -> gives you more damage
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage -> gives you more damage
(5 items) When you take damage, you generate 5 Ultimate. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds -> getting buffed to 6 next patch

Champion of the Hist
2 items: Adds 129 Weapon Damage
3 items: Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
4 items: Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
5 items: Gain Minor Heroism at all times while you are in combat, generating 1 Ultimate every 1.5 seconds -> not as good as WW hide, and also a minor bonus meaning it won't stack with other sources such as Heroic Slash

MurderMostFoul · August 2020

Asardes wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

No reason to run Ancient Dragonguard on a stamina build.

I honestly don't understand the hate people throw on Ancient Dragonguard. It's not good as a primary damage set, and it can't be relied upon for all of your defense, but it is a very good supplement to both.

I wouldn't run it on a tanky build that stays in the fight for extended periods, or any other kind of attrition build. But on high-damage, high-mobility builds in noCP, I've had great success with it.

Akaviri Dragonguard
(2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery -> pretty useless on Stam Necro since you're not spamming magicka abilities
(3 items) Adds 4% Healing Taken -> can be useful
(4 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health -> you get lots of HP from class passives, easy enough to hit 25K+ w/o any points
(5 items) Reduces the cost of your Ultimate abilities by 15%. -> that's basically the most important bonus of the set.

I mean the set can be good on some magicka classes, for example it's excellent on Magicka DK if you build tanky.

But for stamina there are better alternatives, namely:

Blessing of the Potentates
(2 items) Reduces your damage taken from Players by 5%. -> getting nerfed to 3% next patch but still pretty good
(3 items) Reduces the cost of your Ultimate abilities by 15%. -> the same ultimate cost reduction
Also opens 2 more slots that can be filled with some other set, for example arena weapons: For example (perfected) Stinging Slashes work really well on Necromancer due to the Rapid Rot passive.

Hide of the Werewolf
(2 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health -> you won't be lacking HP on Necromancer, but still not wasted
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina -> gives you more damage
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage -> gives you more damage
(5 items) When you take damage, you generate 5 Ultimate. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds -> getting buffed to 6 next patch

Champion of the Hist
2 items: Adds 129 Weapon Damage
3 items: Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
4 items: Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
5 items: Gain Minor Heroism at all times while you are in combat, generating 1 Ultimate every 1.5 seconds -> not as good as WW hide, and also a minor bonus meaning it won't stack with other sources such as Heroic Slash

We're not talking about Akaviri Dragonguard, a set I've never had a reason to use.

We're talking about Ancient Dragonguard:

(2 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(3 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage, Adds 129 Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical, Adds 833 Spell Critical
(5 items) Adds 300 Weapon Damage and Spell Damage while your Health is above 50%. Adds 3460 Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance while your Health is 50% or less.

Mortiis13 · August 2020

Got a nice medium armor build I will use next patch.

One I use for pure stamina necro stacking as much mitigation as possible and healing percentages , only bg build/stand ur ground
5k+ wpn dmg fully buffed,
Up to 25k resistance backbar
2.6k stam reg
25k health/stamina
Base magicka/magicka reg
Malacath
Stage 3 vampire (only for undeath passiv)

(loosing 7.5critchance on an already low crit build can be ignored, but still boost heal power.
the other passives fit my playstyle more as I sprint/dodge/sneak a lot, 15% more wpn dmg is a no brainer )

The other is for stamsorc, maybe using it for stam nb as well. Medium armor.
Stacking as much health reg as possible.
Build for hit and run/high mobility/los play
4.7k wpn dmg full buffed
Up to 25k resistance backbar.
24k health/ 26k stam/ ca. 16k mag
2.3k stamreg
1. 6k up to 4.8k healthreg
1400 mag reg
About 35% critchance
Base critdmg/heal
(it may not help much for offense but it provides me regular crit surge procs and healcrits)
Will test if a malacath build would perform better.

What I want to say is, I have similar stats and hitting like a truck, I could only imagine ur build lack penetration.
2h maul with penetration trait, pen mundos and major breach(use s/b skill for that, also gives u minor protection) gives u somewhat between 10 to 15k pen depending on enemies resistance. Also major Defile all the time.

(note that Only minor/major breach is calculated before maul, everything else after maul, so a 30k resistance target gives you 5k penetration after major breach. Only light armor wearer with zero investment into Armour will give u round about 2k after breach.)

I tested some heavy armor high health procset builds but that playstyle bored me to hell. Also can be imagine it's subpar for 1vsX situations.
But its Good for duells/zerg play.
Especially warden can be very frustrating/dangerous to ay against with such a build.

Crixus8000 · August 2020

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

On high mobility builds in BGs, I do very well wearing ancient dragonguard + a damage set.

You can do good wearing almost anything tbh, but the point is that the set is just bad. 300 wep dmg isn't much at all and losing the wep dmg under half hp means your just losing heals when you need them most.

Dr_Ganknstein · August 2020

How much penetration you running?

MurderMostFoul · August 2020

Crixus8000 wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

On high mobility builds in BGs, I do very well wearing ancient dragonguard + a damage set.

You can do good wearing almost anything tbh, but the point is that the set is just bad. 300 wep dmg isn't much at all and losing the wep dmg under half hp means your just losing heals when you need them most.

In noCP, especially BGs, stamina heals on a high mobility, medium armor build are very weak to begin with. The 300 WD lost under 50% hp is not going to be the difference between surviving or dying.

On such a build, once you are low on health, you need to dodge roll and LOS. The armor AD provides below 50% gives you some cover while doing so. Once you are in the clear, you don't need your heals to be maxed out to get get to 100% hp.

When you are above 50%, the set is provides 429 straight WD (scaling very well with brutality and med armor passives), buffing everything. All light/heavy attacks, dots, AOE, direct damage, heals, and even skills that "scale off your highest offensive stat" like ultimates. It's not the most outright damage, but it's versatility makes it a very strong secondary set.

EtTuBrutus · August 2020

Put balorgh on. Done.

collin.desotoub17_ESO · August 2020

Dr_Ganknstein wrote: »

How much penetration you running?

I am running Clever/NMA with a Maul.