ZOS, RE: AoE's in Cyrodiil

Snowgoons · August 2020

This guy is 100% right, people were using MORE aoe's at the beginning of the game. ZOS, stop pretending to fix things, I take it personally when someone lies to my face.

The facts are in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGBa9uth1e8

You gonna deny multiple players exact experience? That was my experience too, more aoe's less lag.

What's happened?

Unified_Gaming · August 2020

This thread has been closed for some reason [insert reason]...

Snowgoons · August 2020

Unified_Gaming wrote: »

This thread had been closed for some reason...

Because the truth is out there, and they don't want you to see it.

Rich Lambert making up post, this guys one video destroys it. Nothing changed between when cyrodiil worked and doesn't work besides added sets, adjusted skills, calculations, and mounts, it's what they added that is the issue.

Not AOE's and now were probably going to see HIGH cost AOE's or some bs to force no lag in Cyrodiil, when it's probably something related to the PVE side of the game that caused the lag.

CrazYDunm3r · August 2020

After some criticism I couldn't post on forums for 72 hours. Some daedric magic, probably had something to do with this but who knows...: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6892501#Comment_6892501

Criticism is something any game needs and listening to the fans is key. I don't say accept everything we say, but at least communicate with us somewhere. Some tickets don't get an answer, but they are always so polite to refer to the support for a conversation... How is this supposed to work? Where do we actually communicate without an automated answer?

Unified_Gaming · August 2020

Snowgoons wrote: »

Unified_Gaming wrote: »

This thread had been closed for some reason...

Because the truth is out there, and they don't want you to see it.

Rich Lambert making up post, this guys one video destroys it. Nothing changed between when cyrodiil worked and doesn't work besides added sets, adjusted skills, calculations, and mounts, it's what they added that is the issue.

Not AOE's and now were probably going to see HIGH cost AOE's or some bs to force no lag in Cyrodiil, when it's probably something related to the PVE side of the game that caused the lag.

I agree with what Nes said in the video and am not in support of the aoe changes at all.

AuraNebula · August 2020

They don't know how to fix the game. It feels like they're grasping at straws trying to find anything to make performance better. I doubt the aoes are going to fix anything. But if fixing the aoes got rid of all the lag and load screens every time a damn keep flips then I guess it will be okay. Still don't think it's going to work though.

relentless_turnip · August 2020

I think moving player position along with block server side for harrowstorm is the reason for the performance we have suffered since. This was in preparation for stadia imo. It was massive contract with Google.

I can't say I blame them, but more honesty during the whole process would have been appreciated.

SeaGtGruff · August 2020

When it worked back "at the beginning of the game," was that back when a lot of calculations were done client-side, before they had to be moved server-side due to blatant hacking and exploits? Note: I wasn't playing the game back then, so I don't about that firsthand; I'm just accepting what others have said about it.

Fur_like_snow · August 2020

They should move more of the calculations back to client side. Sure it might open more doors for cheating but block and two check targeting going server side creates noticeable performance issues.

Elsonso · August 2020

Yes, ZOS will see this. They have said that they look at stuff like this, and so it will likely be seen. What I don't know is whether they will watch the whole thing.

I don't think that either "lying" or "do not understand their game" really applies. It is easy to fall into this sort of accusation when someone is not really part of the process, and the video pretty much starts off with that to set the tone. That is going to work against the video. If I had one editing suggestion, it would be to go back over that video and remove the accusations and just stick with clear presentation of the historical facts, probably using older videos and current videos with clear narration of events.

technohic · August 2020

The old pain trains ran healing springs which is literally contained to an area. If you look at abilities they are going after in this test, they have AOEs but they also are targeting something like honor the dead which is NOT an AOE. It is single target. What it IS however, is a smart target ability. Coincidentally, things got worse when healing springs hot nerfed while regeneration (smart target) got buffed. Rapids which was just apply to x number of players in a group, got nerfed and replaced by purge which looks for effects and does more based on how many it removed. So I dont think it's really AOE itself they are looking at, but the logic behind how they target

I also think a lot of these procs are using a similar target calculation and has increased it. The bright orange healing ring proc also showed up around the time we bottomed out here.

Mounts have gotten flashier. I dont know that they are summoned enough to impact but we went from lighting to explosions when summoned to now a gigantic tornado like someone flushed a used tampon. More graphic intensive, but agian; not sure frequency is enough to impact.

It's just a test to see, but I think the video is right in that they will see increased performance but not because it caused the issues

Aurielle · August 2020

Snowgoons wrote: »

This guy is 100% right, people were using MORE aoe's at the beginning of the game. ZOS, stop pretending to fix things, I take it personally when someone lies to my face.

The facts are in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGBa9uth1e8

You gonna deny multiple players exact experience? That was my experience too, more aoe's less lag.

What's happened?

That video is so beautiful... Massive, AOE-filled, visual effect-filled Cyrodiil battles on PS4 with NO LAG. That’s the ESO I remember, and the ESO I once loved.

ZOS, please stop insulting your veteran players who know the difference with your playerbase-blaming excuses. Maybe it’s time to admit, once and for all, that you don’t know what the problem is and you don’t know how to fix it. Experimenting with AOE cooldowns on an active combat MMO that was specifically designed around NEVER having skill cooldowns is utterly bizarre to those of us who know what this game once was.

Sm0ke · August 2020

Omg, people are beginning to understand that AoE does not create server lags, but the developers themselves create them with their unproductive maintenance, as well as fixes and patches.
Now I see a bunch of people who just have ambitions in relation to ball groups, they don't care about the result, they just want to get rid of them, not understanding the consequences, and also that this will not solve the problems with the lag in Cyrodiil.
People simply feed on promises and always forget that there were already a million, but the result is one, only disappointment.
ZoS, stop ruining the mechanics of your game, making it casual, you have deprived people of the group BG, and now you want to deprive people of the group Cyrodiil by adding a cooldown.
The game just aims for a turn-based combat system.

Pevey · August 2020

I have a suspicion without any confirmation that certain teams are using addons to message spam the server to purposely introduce lag to their advantage. I have heard some pvpers hint about that. Personally, I think ZOS should scrap the AOE tests and instead test disabling ALL ADDONS just in Cyrodiil and see how that affects performance. It would be more difficult to message spam to that extent manually without addons or some sort of cheat runtime. Message spam bursts are the new OP skill.

Also, I think it might be time to think about the original vision of Cyrodiil versus what it is now and whether this VAST mostly empty space makes any sense at all to new players coming into the game. The space was designed for massive large scale warfare that does not and cannot exist due to population caps. It makes very little sense.

If the Morrowind sustain nerfs, the more recent "standardization" damage and sustain nerfs, especially to AOE, the nerfs to sustain purple foods that make them on par with or worse than blue foods, were all in sacrifice to try to sustain this original vision for Cyrodiil, then they were not worth it. They were and remain deeply unpopular with the player base, and Cyrodiil remains mostly empty and laggy and far from the original vision.

Elsonso · August 2020

SmokeHappiness wrote: »

Omg, people are beginning to understand that AoE does not create server lags

Actually, I am fairly certain that spamming AoE does create server lag, and has been contributing to it for years. The fix is not to change AoEs, though.

WaTeR-aBuSeR · August 2020

I still believe the issue lies with downgrading servers unless they come out and say they downgraded them. CP was thought to be the cause bc it required more checks and now they are blaming aoes but they do the same thing.

If the servers are the same, performance was good during the pvp event. Now performance is bad again players have concluded they dedicated more resources to cyrodiil and took from pve ones. Other possibilities could be the content that has been added requiring more server resources than at launch. Housing requires more server resources with all the instances as well as the new zones that have been added over time.

Personally, I've given up that cyrodiil will have decent performance ever because it has been 5 years of them trying to fix lag and crashes.

Aurielle · August 2020

Pevey wrote: »

I have a suspicion without any confirmation that certain teams are using addons to message spam the server to purposely introduce lag to their advantage. I have heard some pvpers hint about that. Personally, I think ZOS should scrap the AOE tests and instead test disabling ALL ADDONS just in Cyrodiil and see how that affects performance. It would be more difficult to message spam to that extent manually without addons or some sort of cheat runtime. Message spam bursts are the new OP skill.

Also, I think it might be time to think about the original vision of Cyrodiil versus what it is now and whether this VAST mostly empty space makes any sense at all to new players coming into the game. The space was designed for massive large scale warfare that does not and cannot exist due to population caps. It makes very little sense.

If the Morrowind sustain nerfs, the more recent "standardization" damage and sustain nerfs, especially to AOE, the nerfs to sustain purple foods that make them on par with or worse than blue foods, were all in sacrifice to try to sustain this original vision for Cyrodiil, then they were not worth it. They were and remain deeply unpopular with the player base, and Cyrodiil remains mostly empty and laggy and far from the original vision.

Your addon theory doesn’t explain why Cyrodiil went from being very playable on PS4 to utterly unplayable.

Elsonso · August 2020

Aurielle wrote: »

Your addon theory doesn’t explain why Cyrodiil went from being very playable on PS4 to utterly unplayable.

That is how evil the addons are. They can make lag on other platforms!

I doubt it is an addon. Message spam would probably lag the person doing it more than everyone else. If it did work, the way that ZOS hands out "social bans" for merely sneezing twice in rapid succession, these people would be unable to function in Cyrodiil because they would be blocked.

validifyedneb18_ESO · August 2020

The game worked differently back then, many effects where done entierly on the client side and wide open for hackers to exploit.

The game is better now, but it also means it runs worse, and more importantly scales worse.

Stop spreading conspiracy theories, this has been talked about to death, its nothing new.

Ratzkifal · August 2020

Imagine if the server just had some sort of memory leak that hasn't been identified for years and then one day they just find the culprit, press reset and everything is smooth again...
If only...

ccfeeling · August 2020

Add on checking will be an good idea.

Block all add on for 2 weeks.

No big deal tho.