Need help making Tank

SedoUmbra · July 2020

I've wanted to make a tank character, but I am totally lost with where to start.

Does the race matter that much? I know that Racial Passives can provide a significant boost but am I barring myself from any PvE content by picking a race with absolutely 0 synergies with the role?

Are any classes not viable for meaningful endgame content? I'm not looking to make a top-meta min-maxed build, just looking to see what my options. Not interested in the idea of a Nightblade Tank anyway right now, but is that a viable option?

What are the ideal weapon choices? Again, not looking to restrict myself to the absolute best combo, just looking to see what the options are. OHS seems an obvious choice, and Frost Staff looks really good on paper but I almost never see anyone running Frost Staffs in Pubs dungeons. Usually I see OHS + Resto staff or OHS + 2H.

What on earth am I doing with attribute points? This is probably the most daunting part of it for me. I see a lot of people saying you need more stamina than magicka because of abilities/synergies that only restore resource to your primary stat and so you have more resource to block with, but how much Stam:HP:Mag? I've seen people give a whole range of suggestions, but a lot of the info is out-dated, so Idk if changes have been made since then.

Any advice is appreciated.

OrionPriest · July 2020

I'm still new but my tank is the first character I've really focused on so I'll try and tell you what I've learned.

Race - 3 usual choices are Imperial (higher overall health and other stats), Nord (higher resistances and ultimate), or Argonian (higher across the board regen) but I think any race can honestly work for everything but the top 1% of end game competative content.

Class - I personally am a Warden and I love it, though I think DK may be the most popular tank class (with Warden maybe #2). I think Nightblade is viable and may come in at a #3. The same statement applies to class as race, you can make anything you want to play work it just may not be optimal for the 1% of min-max endgame

Weapons/Skills - OHS is the staple and where you get your primary taunt, your backup can be anything. In dungeons I run Ice staff (for another taunt) Lightning staff is another option for the concuss, if you want to add to DPS then 2H or DW can be used as back up. Skills you want to focus on - Taunt (OHS, Ice Staff, Undaunted) Pulls (Fighters Guild, Warden, DK), Crowd Control (Warden, DK, maybe others?). Once you have that down then work on buffing the group or debuff.

Attributes for a tank is all about personal preference more so then any other role. Personally I have mine split 30 health and Stam each with 4 in Magicka (cuz I like even numbers) but it will depend on your gear and how comfertable you are with resource management. Basically you want a minimum of 35k to 40k health when buffed in a dungeon. After that it's about what skills you use more and how you want to split them. I solo overland content with my tank when not doing dungeons so I have a bit more in staminia to help with my solo combat.

This is a great thread about tanking and makes you think. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/416797/royal-poets-guide-to-traditional-tanking-in-veteran-dungeons#latest

I love tanking it is much more dynamic and I enjoy it much more then a standard DPS rotation character.

BejaProphet · July 2020

Everything is debated, but here is my input.

Will a specific race/class bar me from end gamevtanking?

Yes and no. No, because any class race combo can do any content as any role in the game successfully. Yes, because players will often demand meta. The players refusing to give you a chance will be the hardship, not the content. In my opinion, Nord DK is the strongest for pure tanking.

What weapon choices?

One hand shield front bar is mandatory for serious tanking. Yes you can tank with other stuff, but that all falls away in serious content.

Back bar is where the diversity comes in. First, the reason tanks prioritize a large weapon back bar s for the enchant. The effect of enchants are halved for one hand and shield and dual wield. It has become customary (and rightly so) for tanks to provide the armor debuff from the crusher enchantment. You want the full power version of that which means you want your back bar to be an infused (bow, staff, 2hander.). Staves are favored because of wall of elements skill in the destruction staff line. You can lay that AOE down and it continues to proc while you are on front bar.

I recommend frost staff. Lightning staff is considered meta because it has a chance to proc things that augment your teams DPS. I do NOT advocate this. The trade off on your survivability verses their DPS is just too much for too little. You especially don’t want to learn to tank with a lightning staff. I think even meta thumpers would agree with that statement.

What do I do with attribute points?

The main community agreement is that your stamina should be higher than Magicka. This is so that certain abilities recognize stamina as your “primary attribute.” Just a single point higher will do. For some races this requires no attributes in stamina, such as my Nord tank. For other races who have boosted Magicka you will need to spend attributes to get Stam higher.

Beyond that there is disagreement. I advocate putting it all entirely into health. With tri stat glyphs and tri stat food you can get sufficient resource pools. And I believe it is important for a tank to be an actual tank. Not because you can’t survive with less, but because you want to be sturdy enough to be set free from needing to perma block. You want to be doing your job rather than hiding behind your shield with clenched butt cheeks.

Good luck.

amm7sb14_ESO · July 2020

1. Race can impact your tank, but it is not necessary. I have 2 tanks, a Breton Necromancer, and a Wood Elf Warden. Both of them have been successful tanking end game content. The Nord or Imperial might have slightly better health, but both of my tanks are sitting at 40k health and roughly max resistances, so no, I don't think race is a game breaker.
2. ALL classes are viable for end game tanking (except Templars seem to have a raw deal), and Nightblades are no exception. In fact, from my understanding, Nightblades make for pretty good tanks. Necromancers and Wardens are my favorite tanks, but most of those are due to my personal preferences for the concepts of those classes in the first place.
3. The general train of thought is 1h + Shield, and Ice Staff. However, that is not 100% necessary. I use 1h + Shield and a Restoration staff on one of my tanks with no issue what so ever. I've even heard of some tanks back barring Dual Wield due to enchant procs (tho I'm not sure if that still works the same way or not)
4. Attribute points are flexible. I have my Necro tank set at 20 health, 34 mag, 10 stam, and like I said, I am at 40k health and max resistances, with about 22k mag and 17 stam. Stam is *typically* what you want the higher resource of, due to Healing Combustion refilling your highest max resource, but on my Necro I specifically chose mag because the class and my build are very magicka heavy. My Warden tank is 64 health, 0 mag, 0 stam, and I have roughly the same amount of health; about 40k (I have less health boosting sets on my Warden), but obviously my mag and stam pools are lower, which is okay because this character is less resource intense than the necro.

Joxer61 · July 2020

Liofa has a great guide on here as well

or.....

https://xynodegaming.com/atronach/

or he has others but the Warden is fun or you can go with the tried and true...

https://xynodegaming.com/almost-immortal-warrior/

that one is just nuts. enjoy!! And welcome, we need more tanks!!!

ALSO.......level AS A TANK! that way you learn the role/class and will be much better at it. It can be slow, but its not to bad really.

FrancisCrawford · July 2020

BejaProphet wrote: »

You want to be doing your job rather than hiding behind your shield with clenched butt cheeks.

Good luck.

What does blocking keeping you from doing?

BejaProphet · July 2020

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

BejaProphet wrote: »

You want to be doing your job rather than hiding behind your shield with clenched butt cheeks.

Good luck.

What does blocking keeping you from doing?

Well first, to not misrepresent what I said, I never said not to block. Clearly blocking is major part of playing a tank in ESO. Knowing what needs to be blocked, recognizing it in the moment and doing so, is no small part of tanking skill. I said “hiding behind your shield.” That was a colorful way of describing perma blockers, those who constantly hold block.

Second, I can affirm in one sense your point in that the vast majority of skills can be used while blocking. When I was early in my tanking career, I used to pride my self in being able to go through the entire fight’s routine and my cycle of skills without ever letting go of block. So I get part of your point.

But to answer your question, what does constantly holding block stop you from doing?

Well first and most obviously it stops you from regenerating stamina. That’s the simple mechanics. But also as an opportunity cost, it means you aren’t heavy attacking, leaving more stamina on the table. Over the span of a sixty second battle that is literally tens of thousands of points of stamina difference between me and Mr. Blocky in every given fight.

Next, how is Mr. Blocky managing to do his job without all that stamina I have access to? Well, a few things. First, he’s building his tank differently. He’s designing it way way more around magicka regen because he knows he’s got to save his crucial stamina for that perma blocking and he knows he won’t be gaining it in the fight. This impacts what abilities he chooses, when he uses them, and gear, resulting honestly in a weaker tank imo.

He of course needs shield glyphs to pull it off, at least some. Which brings us to the next way he’s pulling it off, he’s being very reserved in his ability uses. On the other hand my taunt costs between 600-700 stamina due to stamina reduction glyphs. That plus heavy attacking whenever I please allows me to spam taunt, silver leash, and heroic slash like crazy non stop.

Next blocking reduces your movement speed. If you don’t appreciate movement speed as a tank, I’m not sure how experienced of a tank you are. Sure, some fights the tank just stands there. But some fights you being slow gets you killed, and when you are trying to manage a pack of eight to ten trash mobs and you are trying to leash, stack, and pin them all (like a good tank does) you are constantly needing to move, jump, and angle for good lines of sight. As tanks we have so so so much to be doing in most fights, more than we actually can do most of the time. So loosing our movement speed is massive. A tank will always loose a step (or seven) by perma blocking.

So while you can always tell me “I can cast the same abilities while blocking!” And it’s true, you can. The differences between a perma blocking tank and what I am describing is like night and day in actual practice. You will never control the fight the way I hope for a tank to do so. You just won’t.

So in my book, what a perma blocking tank can’t do is the job.

Nestor · July 2020

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeVI8_pO6BU

amm7sb14_ESO · July 2020

BejaProphet wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

BejaProphet wrote: »

You want to be doing your job rather than hiding behind your shield with clenched butt cheeks.

Good luck.

What does blocking keeping you from doing?

Well first, to not misrepresent what I said, I never said not to block. Clearly blocking is major part of playing a tank in ESO. Knowing what needs to be blocked, recognizing it in the moment and doing so, is no small part of tanking skill. I said “hiding behind your shield.” That was a colorful way of describing perma blockers, those who constantly hold block.

Second, I can affirm in one sense your point in that the vast majority of skills can be used while blocking. When I was early in my tanking career, I used to pride my self in being able to go through the entire fight’s routine and my cycle of skills without ever letting go of block. So I get part of your point.

But to answer your question, what does constantly holding block stop you from doing?

Well first and most obviously it stops you from regenerating stamina. That’s the simple mechanics. But also as an opportunity cost, it means you aren’t heavy attacking, leaving more stamina on the table. Over the span of a sixty second battle that is literally tens of thousands of points of stamina difference between me and Mr. Blocky in every given fight.

Next, how is Mr. Blocky managing to do his job without all that stamina I have access to? Well, a few things. First, he’s building his tank differently. He’s designing it way way more around magicka regen because he knows he’s got to save his crucial stamina for that perma blocking and he knows he won’t be gaining it in the fight. This impacts what abilities he chooses, when he uses them, and gear, resulting honestly in a weaker tank imo.

He of course needs shield glyphs to pull it off, at least some. Which brings us to the next way he’s pulling it off, he’s being very reserved in his ability uses. On the other hand my taunt costs between 600-700 stamina due to stamina reduction glyphs. That plus heavy attacking whenever I please allows me to spam taunt, silver leash, and heroic slash like crazy non stop.

Next blocking reduces your movement speed. If you don’t appreciate movement speed as a tank, I’m not sure how experienced of a tank you are. Sure, some fights the tank just stands there. But some fights you being slow gets you killed, and when you are trying to manage a pack of eight to ten trash mobs and you are trying to leash, stack, and pin them all (like a good tank does) you are constantly needing to move, jump, and angle for good lines of sight. As tanks we have so so so much to be doing in most fights, more than we actually can do most of the time. So loosing our movement speed is massive. A tank will always loose a step (or seven) by perma blocking.

So while you can always tell me “I can cast the same abilities while blocking!” And it’s true, you can. The differences between a perma blocking tank and what I am describing is like night and day in actual practice. You will never control the fight the way I hope for a tank to do so. You just won’t.

So in my book, what a perma blocking tank can’t do is the job.

None of this is true at all.

I am what you are referring to as a "perma-block" tank, with a heavier investment in magicka than stamina, and never once have I had a problem with stam management nor with dictating the fight through positioning and such, nor am I all loaded up on sturdy and blocking glyphs.

There is nothing I am not accomplishing with my tanking style, and in fact am my guild's main tank for trials. If you know how to build your character around the way you play, whatever that is, you'll understand how to make it work.

BejaProphet · July 2020

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

BejaProphet wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

BejaProphet wrote: »

You want to be doing your job rather than hiding behind your shield with clenched butt cheeks.

Good luck.

What does blocking keeping you from doing?

Well first, to not misrepresent what I said, I never said not to block. Clearly blocking is major part of playing a tank in ESO. Knowing what needs to be blocked, recognizing it in the moment and doing so, is no small part of tanking skill. I said “hiding behind your shield.” That was a colorful way of describing perma blockers, those who constantly hold block.

Second, I can affirm in one sense your point in that the vast majority of skills can be used while blocking. When I was early in my tanking career, I used to pride my self in being able to go through the entire fight’s routine and my cycle of skills without ever letting go of block. So I get part of your point.

But to answer your question, what does constantly holding block stop you from doing?

Well first and most obviously it stops you from regenerating stamina. That’s the simple mechanics. But also as an opportunity cost, it means you aren’t heavy attacking, leaving more stamina on the table. Over the span of a sixty second battle that is literally tens of thousands of points of stamina difference between me and Mr. Blocky in every given fight.

Next, how is Mr. Blocky managing to do his job without all that stamina I have access to? Well, a few things. First, he’s building his tank differently. He’s designing it way way more around magicka regen because he knows he’s got to save his crucial stamina for that perma blocking and he knows he won’t be gaining it in the fight. This impacts what abilities he chooses, when he uses them, and gear, resulting honestly in a weaker tank imo.

He of course needs shield glyphs to pull it off, at least some. Which brings us to the next way he’s pulling it off, he’s being very reserved in his ability uses. On the other hand my taunt costs between 600-700 stamina due to stamina reduction glyphs. That plus heavy attacking whenever I please allows me to spam taunt, silver leash, and heroic slash like crazy non stop.

Next blocking reduces your movement speed. If you don’t appreciate movement speed as a tank, I’m not sure how experienced of a tank you are. Sure, some fights the tank just stands there. But some fights you being slow gets you killed, and when you are trying to manage a pack of eight to ten trash mobs and you are trying to leash, stack, and pin them all (like a good tank does) you are constantly needing to move, jump, and angle for good lines of sight. As tanks we have so so so much to be doing in most fights, more than we actually can do most of the time. So loosing our movement speed is massive. A tank will always loose a step (or seven) by perma blocking.

So while you can always tell me “I can cast the same abilities while blocking!” And it’s true, you can. The differences between a perma blocking tank and what I am describing is like night and day in actual practice. You will never control the fight the way I hope for a tank to do so. You just won’t.

So in my book, what a perma blocking tank can’t do is the job.

None of this is true at all.

I am what you are referring to as a "perma-block" tank, with a heavier investment in magicka than stamina, and never once have I had a problem with stam management nor with dictating the fight through positioning and such, nor am I all loaded up on sturdy and blocking glyphs.

There is nothing I am not accomplishing with my tanking style, and in fact am my guild's main tank for trials. If you know how to build your character around the way you play, whatever that is, you'll understand how to make it work.

None of this is true at all?

So block doesn’t stop stamina regen?
So you can heavy attack while blocking?
So blocking doesn’t slow movement speed?

Clearly SOME of what I said is true, no?

I think you mean to say that you disagree with my conclusion of how much that effects a tank.

Second, even if what you do is successful, you’d be better not holding block. Period. You’d move faster, have more resources (or spec less for sustain thus gaining other things.)

Third, in trials tanks can get away with a variety of things when they have a dedicated awesome healer spamming both heals and resource regen on them, things that would get them and their groups slaughtered in less ideal situations. My advice tends to have PUGing vet DLC dungeons in mind.

Finally, I’ve been around these forums for quite sometime, always interested in discussions on tanking. I’ve definitely heard people argue for perma blocking. But you know what I’ve yet to see? I’ve never once seen a tank learn to play well WITHOUT perma blocking, who then advocated perma blocking. Not yet anyways.

You may be a great tank. I mean that with no sarcasm. I might be truely in awe of you if I watched you. But I have not one sliver of doubt in this: If you are good at tanking, it’s not because you perma block.