An open letter to ZOS and community

zyxie · July 2020

Dear ZOS and fellow players,

I had drafted a post for two days ago after the maintenance went longer than expected, however now we've had issues with the login servers again - I feel compelled to post.

My name is Sarah, and I'm an altoholic. I love Tamriel not for what it is, but for what it can be.

This is not a bashing thread. It is somewhat of a plea.

I am just a player, albeit a bad one, but since I returned to the game - I have went from feeling a bit frustrated when maintenance gets extended to feeling automatically resigned to the fact that if there's a patch or a maintenance window, that chances are it's going to be a whole day and maybe even night.

This kind of situation needs to be alerting you of two things.

That there is some system issue that is now such a regular occurrence that it is affecting your customers.
There is a major breakdown in communications. Managing expectations is part of the job, and you're not doing it very well.

I post this from a position of admiration for the world you or more accurately we all have created.

Rather than bash you for delays, I realised that perhaps it's more important that we stand up as a community and I'd like to invite you to engage with your most important shareholders - your players.

Can we as players, please ask you take this "technical issue" and use it as an opportunity to build a stronger relationship with your players.

Your community (us) not only invest money into a product. We invest the one thing that you can't get back, we invest our time. You may create the structure, but it is your player base who turn it into a living, breathing, world, where people spend thousands of hours of their time building crazy, silly, beautiful, weird houses - roleplaying an argonian flirting with a Khajit, turning a vampire bite into a humorously erotic weird moment (long long story), or helping an isolated person feel less lonely.

The thing is, this world which you have created has meaning, and it means a great deal to many people.

But I'm sorry to say it, but I feel that the focus has shifted away from building a world, to creating a product. I do understand the difficulties of managing large products. My product well, one of them which I spend my dayjob helping administering has some 4 million customers, so from my perspective - seeing your customers as stakeholders is a scary prospect, but in the same breath it is tremendously empowering.

Your community is the arbiter of your success, and like it or not - it is together that we both decide if this world will rise or fall.

This is why I think that it's time to ask for Zenimax to step up to the plate and make a moral commitment into being more accountable in delivering a better community driven experience.

Take these repeated delays as a learning opportunity. Let's look to building some proper engagement and fostering better communications. Please consider making a stronger commitment to the community, reaching consensus and being (within reason) accountable.

Doing this doesn't make you weak. It makes you strong.

It's not unheard of. Please consider, and forgive my very bad attempts at trying to get a positive message across.

Xzysts · July 2020

I really enjoy the way you approached this. I think we all want this game to succeed for the betterment of all of us. Whether you are a PvP, PvE, or even just a quest kind of player. I think Elder Scrolls has a great community behind it. These games are loved by many. I believe if more people would get involved without being so toxic and state their opinions positively, together we could go so far. Thank you for posting and sharing.

goldCoaster · July 2020

ESO rocks my world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4tpuu-Up90

stvwhitewalker · July 2020

i Agree the Op is a very good way to put how countless players feel, Yet since its post not one @ZOS has bothered to acknowledge this and made comment that it would go on to higher ups, which speaks volumes as to just how much our voices matter, they are on the other hand extremely efficient at censoring. which again leaves feeling we are shouting at a brick wall.

KappaKid83 · July 2020

I applaud you for this, well done!

Grandchamp1989 · July 2020

OP makes some interesting points.

Miswar · July 2020

They already have what 2 to 3 "community" managers? Apparently their work is something else since judging from developers tracker they sure do not "communicate". Few non-informative post every now and than. Relaxing job no doubt.

Most of the bigger problems = just silence.

Salvas_Aren · July 2020

The title alone is an invitation for Zeni to ignore your point.

I mean, why listen to your customers when ignoring them also works and is cheaper?

zyxie · July 2020

It would seem that the day is fated to be troublesome, with yet more connectivity issues.

@Klad - we can only hope! I try to think that behind every game there is a bunch of hard-core seasoned developers who care passionately for their content. I mean - while there are parts of ESO that are hard to be proud of, there are countless more examples of real blood sweat and tears that have went into the game.

@Salvas_Aren Perhaps - and perhaps as we expect things will fall on deaf ears, but what's the alternative - do nothing? quit? blast devs and Zos ? I'm trying to be positive here

c'mon! drink the magic Irn-Bru Kool-aid with me too!

Salvas_Aren · July 2020

Im still here to farm my permanban and then im history.

zyxie · July 2020

That's just the thing - while a concept artist or a gamemaster has a somewhat standard job description, when it comes to being a community manager, you'll often find that each place does things differently - some are more like community ambassadors, others give their community managers responsibility of forums and perhaps additional responsibilities such as web content management.

Honestly - I wouldn't even begin to think about blaming our current community managers for anything, it's a bit like buying a car and then when you run out of gas blaming the car salesman because it uses too much gas! (a bad analogy i know - sorry!)

I think honestly - ZOS has the ability to look at creating more engagement with players - whether that be with a player-ran electorate of representatives that act in somewhat of an advisory capacity or simply just being more proactive by upping the social interaction, creating forums or for want of a better word "focus groups", or even having an actual issues tracker where players could report issues - comment on upcoming changes and vote on what they feel they need. Who knows - but if it was in our community manager's job descriptions or they had the time I'm sure they'd be trying their best to do it.

All I'd like is for a bit more transparency, fairness and openness, but most importantly - a bit more value invested in the communities collective knowledge, opinion and experience. That investment, which while may cost a bit of time and take a bit to get right would do us all wonders.

BisDasBlutGefriert · July 2020

[Quoted post removed] .

Was that the Devs in Boundless @Guyle? Best group of devs I've ever had the pleasure of talking to. They'll answer back on late Saturday nights. Truly care for their community. Seriously amazing people!

Gorreck · July 2020

zyxie wrote: »

I think honestly - ZOS has the ability to look at creating more engagement with players - whether that be with a player-ran electorate of representatives that act in somewhat of an advisory capacity or simply just being more proactive by upping the social interaction, creating forums or for want of a better word "focus groups", or even having an actual issues tracker where players could report issues - comment on upcoming changes and vote on what they feel they need. Who knows - but if it was in our community manager's job descriptions or they had the time I'm sure they'd be trying their best to do it.

All I'd like is for a bit more transparency, fairness and openness, but most importantly - a bit more value invested in the communities collective knowledge, opinion and experience. That investment, which while may cost a bit of time and take a bit to get right would do us all wonders.

They sort of had that with class reps, but they cancelled them.

I think its fair to say that it is a forlorn hope to expect any increased engagement at this point, they've been promising it for years (quite literally) now.

SydneyGrey · July 2020

Nicely-worded letter.
I'm an altoholic too.

Psiion · July 2020

Greetings,

After removing a few posts, we would like to remind everyone that Bashing is against the Forum Rules. Please feel free to take a moment to review the Forum Rules in full here if there are any questions. Thank you for your understanding.

volkeswagon · July 2020

See guys. This is how you voice your opinions on performance. Thanks for doing it the right way. You may actually inspire Zos to explore more avenues or seek outside help to solve the issues you guys experience. I am on ps4 NA and mostly farm, craft, decorate homes and socialize so I don't experience your issues.

Athyrium93 · July 2020

It makes me so sad to see the only comment ZOS has made on this post, a beautifully written post that captures the love so many of us have for this game so eloquently.
Maybe I didn't see the negatives posts, and they really were bad, but the fact that they commented at all means they saw this thread, they saw the hope and positivity the OP put out and didn't comment on that, only on the negative.

Idk it just makes me sad that they don't seem to care about everyone that loves this game so much.....

TineaCruris · July 2020

It's pretty clear they haven't been working on performance improvements in a manner they know will work. They are not being honest with their customers regarding their efforts or intentions.

Guyle · July 2020

Athyrium93 wrote: »

It makes me so sad to see the only comment ZOS has made on this post, a beautifully written post that captures the love so many of us have for this game so eloquently.
Maybe I didn't see the negatives posts, and they really were bad, but the fact that they commented at all means they saw this thread, they saw the hope and positivity the OP put out and didn't comment on that, only on the negative.

Idk it just makes me sad that they don't seem to care about everyone that loves this game so much.....

They weren't bad at all, more like the same thing that is being said, but more of a they aren't doing this kind of thing. But yeah, it would have been nice if they would come forward to say more than how they have removed posts for "bashing." Truth hurts sometimes I guess.

Cadbury · July 2020

Athyrium93 wrote: »

It makes me so sad to see the only comment ZOS has made on this post, a beautifully written post that captures the love so many of us have for this game so eloquently.
Maybe I didn't see the negatives posts, and they really were bad, but the fact that they commented at all means they saw this thread, they saw the hope and positivity the OP put out and didn't comment on that, only on the negative.

Idk it just makes me sad that they don't seem to care about everyone that loves this game so much.....

It's their forum.No matter how you feel about them, it's well within their rights to police it.
They may have some emotional investment in the game, but at the end of the day it's nothing personal, just business.

daemonios · July 2020

volkeswagon wrote: »

See guys. This is how you voice your opinions on performance. Thanks for doing it the right way. You may actually inspire Zos to explore more avenues or seek outside help to solve the issues you guys experience. I am on ps4 NA and mostly farm, craft, decorate homes and socialize so I don't experience your issues.

I admire the OP for their ability to express their frustration and hope for change in such a positive way. I myself am way past that point. I have zero trust in ZOS' willingness or ability to fix the game. I don't think it's fair to expect all players to keep a positive attitude given ZOS' track record.

Erlekin · July 2020

After silently reading in this forum for years, I just created a forum account to say thank you for this well written, truthful letter! May it help to bring a change!

zyxie · July 2020

@HybrisFoss - I really appreciate your frustrations - honestly, you are right in the sense that things are not going to change over night. However if we get our pitchforks out (let ourselves get very angry) - it will only create a much larger disconnect between the caretakers of our world and ourselves. Behind every bad decision made by ZOS - there is ultimately a valid reason, and also a good person who to some extent is proud and also doing their best.

While you could say that it is ZOS's responsibility and it's up to them to get things right - we actually all have a shared responsibility both creators and consumers. So, my goal is not to cuddle or lure some tears, but to show ZOS that we actually CAN work together.

Maybe you're right - nothing will change, no one will notice. But would you rather say to yourself "I got angry at it so I quit" or "we tried."

I really do appreciate your view and am a bit sad at how frustrated you feel - There are so many in game who really do feel the same. I hope that we can make things better. x

zyxie · July 2020

Dear @ZOS_MattFiror and @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

For some reason - this reminds me a bit of when you watch the news or a movie about hostage situations and the President always turns round and says we will not negotiate with terrorists! While I'm certainly not a terrorist and my intentions as well as the intentions of all who replied so far are generally wholesome, I do appreciate that it can create somewhat of an impasse.

I would like to kindly invite you to consider a few options.

1. Respond to this open letter with an appropriate "State of the game letter" (Matt) taking some time to gather feedback from your employees about what players are experiencing, what the priorities are and also what are the plans for resolution? What is the logic behind some of the PTS changes (not a criticism, but to help players understand a bit more) What is the immediate plan for the next 3 / 6 / 9 months ? What are the problems that you keep hearing about ? How are you going to manage player expectations 'better'? (once again - not a criticism, but a recognition that things could be better and an invitation to look at it). Maybe even an open roundtable! Maybe even a commitment to do such monthly?

2. Look into creating additional, permanent feedback and engagement channels. We had class ambassadors in the past - and for some reason they were done away with - While there was probably a reason for that - Is it not time to consider creating some better social engagement. These structures - I can't tell you how valuable they are. They help your community to feel more valued and they do give much needed insights. They can work, and whether that be setting up ambassadors again or setting up something different, there are so many ways in which this could be done. I'd be happy to share ideas - but not on this post for the sake of keeping it 'brief'

3. At the very, very least - find a way to remind everyone that you do care and that you are as passionate about this game world as we are.

Thank you for taking the time to hopefully read this. We, the community really do want to work with you in unity, rather than disparity.

UrbanMonk · July 2020

I can't even imagine writing a post like this. Awesome Job OP.
But...In my experience over the years, ZoS has never been good at communicating with Players. They tried a few times, with Live shows and a few posts here and there, but they massively failed at that too.
There are countless Posts on this forum from Some of the Very experienced gamers who gave their feedback in detail about the in game problems, and not only that but possible solutions as well. I can't remember if ever a Dev chimed in to discuss that topic and give their views or plans to tackle those issues. The 99% ZOS comments are either Removing Posts because of bashing or warning people of something, or sometimes a meme from @ZOS_GinaBruno , but never a single discussion post.
With such an attitude towards their customers, its pointless arguing for them to take steps towards better communication. Its just not in their DNA.

There are some strong emotions among some players to make them listen by their wallet, but a few here and there are never going to be enougj to register even a dent.

So at this point, I'm gonna stop and hope that ZoS takes it seriously but I can see the future...

anitajoneb17_ESO · July 2020

@zyxie
It's very well sugar coated but it's still the same old song from players who think they could do everything better than the devs, and on top of it, confusing being a customer with being a boss.
Also, there is no such thing as "we, the community". We're a group of people with just ONE thing in common : we play ESO, for everything else we're different : different playstyles, different means, different wishes for the game and different priorities.
Finally, there's no way we players and them devs can "work together". They work, we buy and play (or don't).

redlink1979 · July 2020

@zyxie Congratulations for a well resumed mixed of feeling towards what's been happening. I think I can say that some of us at least, who make this virtual world live, stand with you.

I hope that @ZOS_RichLambert n @ZOS_MattFiror , at least, read this. It's important.

[snip]

[edited for baiting]

anitajoneb17_ESO · July 2020

[snip] Thank you.
And I hope the devs do better and more useful things with their time than "working with players" (what the hell does that mean anyway ?), siting in virtual "roundtables" and whatnot.

[edited for baiting]

Lysette · July 2020

Whilst sometimes a bit more information about what is worked on and attempted to solve can help one or the other person, in general it will not help the majority, because it is unlikely that most are deep enough involved with IT technology to really make use of the information. For example the last statements about what is worked on helped me understand, where my disconnect issue on a regular basis might come from - a simple issue really, too less memory available at times - and so far ZOS did just kick the player instead to deal with the issue internally. It is now worked on, which is good, but I can solve this problem myself based on that info by just buying more memory. So this was helpful to me.

But I think the majority of players will not make a whole lot of use out of information which is dealing with the internal structure of the megaserver. And to state the obvious (namely that there won't be much progress when it comes to group content with high numbers of players involved) is not something ZOS would want to announce - they can't help it really.

Algorax · July 2020

zyxie wrote: »

Dear ZOS and fellow players,

I had drafted a post for two days ago after the maintenance went longer than expected, however now we've had issues with the login servers again - I feel compelled to post.

My name is Sarah, and I'm an altoholic. I love Tamriel not for what it is, but for what it can be.

This is not a bashing thread. It is somewhat of a plea.

I am just a player, albeit a bad one, but since I returned to the game - I have went from feeling a bit frustrated when maintenance gets extended to feeling automatically resigned to the fact that if there's a patch or a maintenance window, that chances are it's going to be a whole day and maybe even night.

This kind of situation needs to be alerting you of two things.
That there is some system issue that is now such a regular occurrence that it is affecting your customers.

There is a major breakdown in communications. Managing expectations is part of the job, and you're not doing it very well.

I post this from a position of admiration for the world you or more accurately we all have created.

Rather than bash you for delays, I realised that perhaps it's more important that we stand up as a community and I'd like to invite you to engage with your most important shareholders - your players.

Can we as players, please ask you take this "technical issue" and use it as an opportunity to build a stronger relationship with your players.

Your community (us) not only invest money into a product. We invest the one thing that you can't get back, we invest our time. You may create the structure, but it is your player base who turn it into a living, breathing, world, where people spend thousands of hours of their time building crazy, silly, beautiful, weird houses - roleplaying an argonian flirting with a Khajit, turning a vampire bite into a humorously erotic weird moment (long long story), or helping an isolated person feel less lonely.

The thing is, this world which you have created has meaning, and it means a great deal to many people.

But I'm sorry to say it, but I feel that the focus has shifted away from building a world, to creating a product. I do understand the difficulties of managing large products. My product well, one of them which I spend my dayjob helping administering has some 4 million customers, so from my perspective - seeing your customers as stakeholders is a scary prospect, but in the same breath it is tremendously empowering.

Your community is the arbiter of your success, and like it or not - it is together that we both decide if this world will rise or fall.

This is why I think that it's time to ask for Zenimax to step up to the plate and make a moral commitment into being more accountable in delivering a better community driven experience.

Take these repeated delays as a learning opportunity. Let's look to building some proper engagement and fostering better communications. Please consider making a stronger commitment to the community, reaching consensus and being (within reason) accountable.

Doing this doesn't make you weak. It makes you strong.

It's not unheard of. Please consider, and forgive my very bad attempts at trying to get a positive message across.

Such a nice and touching words, too bad that they are "pearls for pigs" as we say here, meaning that they are highly valuable things giving to someone uncapable to grasp their importance.

TwinLamps · July 2020

I am an altoholic myself