[ESO+ Subscription] Free sub for Crowns instead of Free crowns for Sub

Dusk_Coven · July 2020

Whenever new products come into the Crown Store, often there's a burst of purchases from the Crown Store either directly or through Crown Sellers.
Whereas when players subscribe, some of them just sit on the Crowns because they have more of these "free with subscription" Crowns accumulated than they can find things to buy.

Suppose we reverse the offer: Every Crown Store item you get comes with 30 days of ESO+ for every 1500 Crown value (or 1 day of ESO+ for every 50 Crown value).
(Obviously that ESO+ time would now not give any free Crowns. It could be implemented as "free ESO+ trial time")

So if someone bought a 15000 Crown house, they'd get 300 days/10 months of ESO+ added.
Or if you gifted someone a 1500 Crown Character Slot, that would come with 30 days of ESO+.
(And if you bought something at a discount, the discounted Crown value is used to calculate the days added).

This is similar to the old MMO idea where the more you buy from their cash shop, the more benefits you accumulate.

Taleof2Cities · July 2020

Though I'm not opposed to giving a few "perks" to the whales, @Dusk_Coven, your idea is too good to be true from a player perspective.

Instead of subscribing AND making one-off purchases in the Crown Store, your example would shorten (or eliminate) player purchases for the subscription itself.

That kind of scenario would give the ZOS Revenue Team nightmares ... since it eats into subscriber fees.

On the bright side, I don't see any issues with giving players (with high Crown Store activity) a few exclusive cosmetics based on their spend tier.

Tigerseye · July 2020

Yeah, to be honest, I'm getting extremely tired of being quadruple-dipped on, as an ESO+ subscriber.

In other similar games, I would get access to pretty much everything - apart from the very occasional store-only mount/pet and things like race changes - if I paid the same kind of sub.

Whereas, here, I pay my sub and then still only get a few of the things that come as standard in sub games.

I don't even get access to an inventory and bank upgrade with new content, even though I have also bought the chapter.

Then, if I want some costumes, mounts, pets, houses, furniture packs, furniture etc. I am then expected to pay again.

...and not just at a fairly typical rate for these kind of things - at a rate that pretty much assumes that is all I am paying for.

I know you get a few Crowns with the sub, but it takes a long time (many years), if ever, to get to the point where you can buy most things you want with them (unless you have very limited interests).

DaveMoeDee · July 2020

As someone with 47k crowns due to subbing, I am onboard with anything that allows me to spend them on subbing.

But this idea makes no sense from a business perspective. When crowns are part of the sub, many people stop valuing them and spend them without much thought. I don't think of it that way. It is still a premium currency and I will only onto it for things I really want. Since I have the assistants, all character slots, and the 2 inventory pets, there is nothing in the crown store that interests me. I'll hold on to the crowns in case there is a time when I suck less at inventory management and can just go ahead and buy the DLC I don't own yet (I own all non-Dungeon DLC through Murkmire since I bought them instead of subbing pre-craft bag and got the 2 guild ones when they were 75% off).

If they ever decide to sell a craft bag for 50k crowns, I can afford it for another $20.

But if I could start spending down the balance for ESO+, I would start spending the crowns on DLC first. With the loss of the discount for 12 months subs, I would also only spend down when I need a sub renewal and I would take more breaks in between to avoid playing without the inventory management buffs. It would be a horrible business decision.

bluebird · July 2020

Tigerseye wrote: »

Yeah, to be honest, I'm getting extremely tired of being quadruple-dipped on, as an ESO+ subscriber.

In other similar games, I would get access to pretty much everything - apart from the very occasional store-only mount/pet and things like race changes - if I paid the same kind of sub.

Pretty much this. 100%.

In GW2, there is no subscription whatsoever. Regular DLC content updates are free for ALL active players. Only Expansions are paid for and they have much more content than Chapters. And the game sells cosmetics as micro-transactions for everybody.

In WoW, a paid Expansion costs not much more than ESO Chapter yet has easily four times as much content. Your subscription allows you 50 character slots, an unlimited number of saved outfits, dozens of ingame mounts and other cosmetics.

In ESO, free players need to buy DLCs individually, even subscribers need to pay for Chapters, character slots are paid separately, outfit slots are paid separately, the vast majority of cosmetics goes into the Crown Store, and even if you pay for Crown Store items like houses, you get half the benefit unless you also subscribe.

So yes, double-triple-quadruple-dipping is an accurate way to describe ESO. The worst money/reward ratio possible.

Kwik1 · July 2020

bluebird wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

Yeah, to be honest, I'm getting extremely tired of being quadruple-dipped on, as an ESO+ subscriber.

In other similar games, I would get access to pretty much everything - apart from the very occasional store-only mount/pet and things like race changes - if I paid the same kind of sub.

Pretty much this. 100%.

In GW2, there is no subscription whatsoever. Regular DLC content updates are free for ALL active players. Only Expansions are paid for and they have much more content than Chapters. And the game sells cosmetics as micro-transactions for everybody.

In WoW, a paid Expansion costs not much more than ESO Chapter yet has easily four times as much content. Your subscription allows you 50 character slots, an unlimited number of saved outfits, dozens of ingame mounts and other cosmetics.

In ESO, free players need to buy DLCs individually, even subscribers need to pay for Chapters, character slots are paid separately, outfit slots are paid separately, the vast majority of cosmetics goes into the Crown Store, and even if you pay for Crown Store items like houses, you get half the benefit unless you also subscribe.

So yes, double-triple-quadruple-dipping is an accurate way to describe ESO. The worst money/reward ratio possible.

I personally love ESO's sub system.

Does wow give you a crafting bag plus 1650 crowns plus double bank space plus xp/crafting bonus?

WoW does do a better job on expansions for sure, but that's it. The crafting bag alone is worth the sub to me and then you add double bank space and free crowns and the other little perks and I am quite happy to pay the 14.99 per month.

ESO keeps me interested with the much more fun gameplay while I get bored of WoW within a month.

Worst money reward possible? Nah, I am quite happy with it

Of course WoW is always there for ya since it offers so much more!!

bluebird · July 2020

Kwik1 wrote: »

bluebird wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

Yeah, to be honest, I'm getting extremely tired of being quadruple-dipped on, as an ESO+ subscriber.

In other similar games, I would get access to pretty much everything - apart from the very occasional store-only mount/pet and things like race changes - if I paid the same kind of sub.

Pretty much this. 100%.

In GW2, there is no subscription whatsoever. Regular DLC content updates are free for ALL active players. Only Expansions are paid for and they have much more content than Chapters. And the game sells cosmetics as micro-transactions for everybody.

In WoW, a paid Expansion costs not much more than ESO Chapter yet has easily four times as much content. Your subscription allows you 50 character slots, an unlimited number of saved outfits, dozens of ingame mounts and other cosmetics.

In ESO, free players need to buy DLCs individually, even subscribers need to pay for Chapters, character slots are paid separately, outfit slots are paid separately, the vast majority of cosmetics goes into the Crown Store, and even if you pay for Crown Store items like houses, you get half the benefit unless you also subscribe.

So yes, double-triple-quadruple-dipping is an accurate way to describe ESO. The worst money/reward ratio possible.

I personally love ESO's sub system.

Does wow give you a crafting bag plus 1650 crowns plus double bank space plus xp/crafting bonus?

WoW does do a better job on expansions for sure, but that's it. The crafting bag alone is worth the sub to me and then you add double bank space and free crowns and the other little perks and I am quite happy to pay the 14.99 per month.

ESO keeps me interested with the much more fun gameplay while I get bored of WoW within a month.

Worst money reward possible? Nah, I am quite happy with it

Of course WoW is always there for ya since it offers so much more!!

Well... WoW doesn't need an ESO+ craft bag, because all characters have access to a material storage tab that they can unlock for gold ingame. They can also have 224 Bank slots on all of their characters, and with a mule character and storage guild that goes up to 1158 slots.

WoW subscribers also don't need 1650 Crowns because that will maybe get you one or half a mount in ESO, you can earn dozens of new mounts and hundreds of armor and weapon skins in every patch in WoW, all ingame not through paid transactions.

The question wasn't 'Is 14,99 extra per month for ESO+ worth it compared to basic ESO'. The comparison was 'what does 14,99 get you in ESO vs what does 14,99 get you in other games'. So you being happy with ESO+ doesn't change the fact that it has atrocious value compared to what other games get you for the same price. And yes, thank you, I do play WoW too 'since it offers so much more!!!'

Tigerseye · July 2020

Kwik1 wrote: »

bluebird wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

Yeah, to be honest, I'm getting extremely tired of being quadruple-dipped on, as an ESO+ subscriber.

In other similar games, I would get access to pretty much everything - apart from the very occasional store-only mount/pet and things like race changes - if I paid the same kind of sub.

Pretty much this. 100%.

In GW2, there is no subscription whatsoever. Regular DLC content updates are free for ALL active players. Only Expansions are paid for and they have much more content than Chapters. And the game sells cosmetics as micro-transactions for everybody.

In WoW, a paid Expansion costs not much more than ESO Chapter yet has easily four times as much content. Your subscription allows you 50 character slots, an unlimited number of saved outfits, dozens of ingame mounts and other cosmetics.

In ESO, free players need to buy DLCs individually, even subscribers need to pay for Chapters, character slots are paid separately, outfit slots are paid separately, the vast majority of cosmetics goes into the Crown Store, and even if you pay for Crown Store items like houses, you get half the benefit unless you also subscribe.

So yes, double-triple-quadruple-dipping is an accurate way to describe ESO. The worst money/reward ratio possible.

I personally love ESO's sub system.

Does wow give you a crafting bag plus 1650 crowns plus double bank space plus xp/crafting bonus?

WoW does do a better job on expansions for sure, but that's it. The crafting bag alone is worth the sub to me and then you add double bank space and free crowns and the other little perks and I am quite happy to pay the 14.99 per month.

ESO keeps me interested with the much more fun gameplay while I get bored of WoW within a month.

Worst money reward possible? Nah, I am quite happy with it

Of course WoW is always there for ya since it offers so much more!!

I know you are being sarcastic, but WoW (genuinely) does offer you far more for your money.

Of course, there are other things to consider than purely value for money, when choosing which game you play and that is why some people still choose ESO, regardless.

WoW doesn't offer the same kind of housing, for example and they have also made some pretty dubious and regressive design choices, in the past, against their own players' better judgement and repeated pleas for them to not do so.

To the extent that they had to stop publishing their sub numbers, after these ill-advised changes, as the fall in them had been so dramatic...

So, I am certainly not writing as a WoW fangirl, here.

Having said that, it is just a fact that ESO absolutely starves you of inv and bank space, relative to other games.

Unless you count making endless mules, which you can also do in the other games mentioned, on top of the far more generous baseline storage amounts.

In other words, double far too little, with ESO+, is still too little.

Especially if you are here, to a substantial extent, for something inv-intensive, like housing.

Also, GW2 gives you a basic craft bag for free (or included with the initial purchase price of the game, technically).

As opposed to ESO, where if you don't pay a sub and you try to gather anything at all, you are left totally floundering with your already woeful basic (even if you don't gather) inv and bank space amount.

This design choice not only torments non-sub players (as it is no doubt designed to do, to try to persuade them to sub), it also torments sub players, who are just trying to buy a specific material from guild stores.

As they not only have to travel all over the map to buy it - which they don't have to do in either of the other games mentioned - but, also, have to wade through multiple listings of only one, or two, items listed at a time, on TTC first.

This is because the poor newer players have no choice but to sell one Decorative Wax, or Mundane Rune, at a time, to try to free up some bag/bank space.

They can't just collect a full stack and then sell it, as they would do in either WoW, or GW2.

Obviously, there are reasons (in ESO's favour) why I have remained here for so long (so far), despite all this, as opposed to defecting back to either WoW, or GW2.

However, the fact remains that ESO does not stack up well beside either of them, in this particular regard.

Kwik1 · July 2020

Tigerseye wrote: »

I know you are being sarcastic, but WoW (genuinely) does offer you far more for your money.

Of course, there are other things to consider than purely value for money, when choosing which game you play and that is why some people still choose ESO, regardless.

WoW doesn't offer the same kind of housing, for example and they have also made some pretty dubious and regressive design choices, in the past, against their own players' better judgement and repeated pleas for them to not do so.

To the extent that they had to stop publishing their sub numbers, after these ill-advised changes, as the fall in them had been so dramatic...

So, I am certainly not writing as a WoW fangirl, here.

Having said that, it is just a fact that ESO absolutely starves you of inv and bank space, relative to other games.

Unless you count making endless mules, which you can also do in the other games mentioned, on top of the far more generous baseline storage amounts.

In other words, double far too little, with ESO+, is still too little.

Especially if you are here, to a substantial extent, for something inv-intensive, like housing.

Also, GW2 gives you a basic craft bag for free (or included with the initial purchase price of the game, technically).

As opposed to ESO, where if you don't pay a sub and you try to gather anything at all, you are left totally floundering with your already woeful basic (even if you don't gather) inv and bank space amount.

This design choice not only torments non-sub players (as it is no doubt designed to do, to try to persuade them to sub), it also torments sub players, who are just trying to buy a specific material from guild stores.

As they not only have to travel all over the map to buy it - which they don't have to do in either of the other games mentioned - but, also, have to wade through multiple listings of only one, or two, items listed at a time, on TTC first.

This is because the poor newer players have no choice but to sell one Decorative Wax, or Mundane Rune, at a time, to try to free up some bag/bank space.

They can't just collect a full stack and then sell it, as they would do in either WoW, or GW2.

Obviously, there are reasons (in ESO's favour) why I have remained here for so long (so far), despite all this, as opposed to defecting back to either WoW, or GW2.

However, the fact remains that ESO does not stack up well beside either of them, in this particular regard.

Just saying it offers more for your money though is incredibly misleading because it is all based on what you value more for your money.

I absolutely agree that WoW does far better on expansions then ESO does but that is where it ends.

You say WoW is better for inventory but that is 100% misleading. If you want to say it gives you far easier to obtain inventory spaces and a few more that is true in only that way, but ESO actually offers you TONS more inventory space with the crafting bag.

If you were to keep all the crafting components in WoW ON your character, how much room would you have left for inventory? be honest now

. The crafting bag from ESO means ALL the crafting components goes into the bag and not your bank or inventory. That saves me at least 200 inventory slots for each item PLUS unlimited stacks. In WoW if you get over something like 200 you start a new stack right? It happened to me a lot while questing in WoW, and please don't act like crafting mats in wow don't take much space because I have mats.

So your argument that WoW gives more inventory space is not true simply because of the crafting bag from ESO+.
Also add in 1650 crowns for subbing to ESO+ while WoW has zero special currency in that regard.
Also add in that ESO+ gives you +10% xp/+10% craftingXP

Now what else do you get for being a WoW subscriber? We are not talking DLC because both games require you purchase the newest expansion to play it while both games also give you all older expansions included in subbing so both are the same here. Again, WoW offers MUCH better expansions, but that isn't the question, the question is strictly subbing.

And how does ESO starve you for space? I have 480 bank slots availbale to all my toons all the time PLUS another 360 spots in my house so I have a total of 840 bank slots technically of SHARED bank space which I much prefer to WoW individual space.

My characters in ESO all have 210 slots in personal inventory if I remember which I NEVER run out of space. With my free crowns I have been able to purchase the portable banker and merchant so space is never an issue. In WoW I run out of space after every dungeon run if I don't sell and almost everything is garbage for just a few gold and I have the 40 slot bags on all my characters for almost max space, I think it's the 40 slot bags anyway lol.

And my house was free from doing the main quest line in Northern Elsewyr and I got all my storage free by just spending in game writ vouchers I had tons of, and the main quest line took like 2 hours to do so it is not a hard line to complete. I can add 3 more additions to my house by doing a couple of achievements that I just have messed around with but they aren't hard or time consuming either.

So once again, please tell me how the SUBBING in WoW is better and how the inventory space is better.

You need to change characters in WoW to get to your extra inventory space and I don't in ESO, it is all readily available to all my characters almost all times unless they have it actually equipped. If you want to add ALL your characters in WoW together you end up with more bank space that you have to load and reload to access and mail to your other toons if I remember right, ESO has it all accessible.

While I wish ESO did even close to what WoW adds for expansions, ESO is far and away better for straight subbing.

Kwik1 · July 2020

And we aren't talking about trading either which WoW is much better on, we are talking STRICTLY SUBBING and comparing that only.

bluebird · July 2020

Kwik1 wrote: »

And we aren't talking about trading either which WoW is much better on, we are talking STRICTLY SUBBING and comparing that only.

Kwik1 wrote: »

So your argument that WoW gives more inventory space is not true simply because of the crafting bag from ESO+.Also add in 1650 crowns for subbing to ESO+ while WoW has zero special currency in that regard.
Also add in that ESO+ gives you +10% xp/+10% craftingXP

I already told you that WoW doesn't need a 'special currency' added for a sub, because you can get items for gold and ingame achivements, while ESO sells them for Crowns. In the meantime, WoW allowed you to earn literal hundreds upon hundreds of ingame mounts (that are also far more unique than endless recolours of a horse, camel, bear and wolf). WoW also allowed you to collect literal hundreds of pets, which you can even play minigames with.

Do you want portable merchants (that repair your gear too), portable auction house and portable outfit changing? You can get the vendor mount in WoW for ingame gold. ESO charges you Crowns for the assistants (several, several months worth of Crowns for them even if you don't spend your monthly 1650 Crowns on anything else).
Do you know how many mounts n non-ESO+ player can get for free? 8 (the current basic Indrik, the current Indrik evolution, and the Stable horses). Do you know how many mounts your ESO+ gets you on top of that? None at all. And how many mounts a free version of WoW can get (capped at level 20)? 44 (3-4 mounts for each race, plus 1 for pally, 1 for warlock). And a fully subbed WoW player? 425.
Do you know how many character slots a non-ESO+ player gets? 16 (8 per server). And how many characters can an ESO+ subscriber get? Oh yeah, only 8 per server, just like the free players. Every other character costs 14,99 to make, even if you are a subscriber in ESO. In WoW, you can make up to 50 for being subbed alone, no extra charges needed.
Do you know how many Outfit slots you can have as a free ESO player? 1. And as an ESO+ sub? That's right, also only 1. If you want more Outit slots, you need to pay 14,99 per Outfit slot per character. In WoW, you can have endless outfits. And that's on top of the hundreds of ingame weapon and armor skins that you get through content, not through the cash shop as ESO mostly does.
Do you want to unlock a new Race? WoW lets you do that through gameplay, and doesn't charge a special Crown price for Imperials like ESO does.

And as for your inventory argument, I actually prefer having separate banks on my characters because it increases my slots dramatically. So ESO has less bank slots, but they are shared with all characters for convenience. While WoW has far more bank slots. If you tell me that 1158 slots for each of your 50 characters in WoW isn't enough to manage your crafting materials, you're either lying or have a serious hoarding problem.

So the mythic ESO+ Craft Bag has rather clear diminishing returns after a certain point.

Arguing for ESO+ is a lost cause, because the benefit that ESO+ adds to free ESO isn't even a fraction of the benefits that a WoW sub adds to free WoW. What ESO does have going for it is in favour of free ESO compared to free WoW - but as you so adamantly put that's completely irrelevant because we're comparing 'STRICTLY SUBBING'.

So WoW sub > ESO sub, simple.

Danikat · July 2020

I agree that the current ESO+ subscription isn't good value for money (which is why I don't use it) but I'm not sure this system is the way to go. It would probably just lead to some people getting 1/2 price subs because they buy one month with real money then one with crowns, and other people who already have large stacks of crowns may be able to get free sub time for quite a long time.

I'm not sure what would be a better system than what we have, without completely re-working the system to address issues like people who are only interested in the craft bag, but I don't think offering sub time for crowns would work out.

Tigerseye wrote: »

This design choice not only torments non-sub players (as it is no doubt designed to do, to try to persuade them to sub), it also torments sub players, who are just trying to buy a specific material from guild stores.

As they not only have to travel all over the map to buy it - which they don't have to do in either of the other games mentioned - but, also, have to wade through multiple listings of only one, or two, items listed at a time, on TTC first.

This is because the poor newer players have no choice but to sell one Decorative Wax, or Mundane Rune, at a time, to try to free up some bag/bank space.

They can't just collect a full stack and then sell it, as they would do in either WoW, or GW2.

For what it's worth I will routinely break up stacks of materials to sell 10 at a time in my guild store and it's not because I'm desperate to sell odd random ones, it's because the trading system we have is also annoyingly restrictive for buyers. Unlike GW2 (not sure about WoW) a buyer can't choose to buy only some of what a seller is offering, you have to take the whole amount or nothing at all.

There were many, many times when I was new (and even sometimes now) when I needed a particular material to craft something but couldn't afford or just didn't want to buy a whole stack of 200, but had no other choice because everyone was listing stacks of 200, trying to squeeze maximum profit out of very limited trader spaces to meet the fees they have to pay for that trader that's all that was available.

So now I'm in a casual guild which happens to have a trader but no sales requirements and I'm not in any particular rush to sell stuff I tend to fill spaces with small amounts of whatever materials I have loads of, and they almost always sell (the ones that don't are stuff like steel, which probably no one needs).

Tigerseye · July 2020

Kwik1 wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

I know you are being sarcastic, but WoW (genuinely) does offer you far more for your money.

Of course, there are other things to consider than purely value for money, when choosing which game you play and that is why some people still choose ESO, regardless.

WoW doesn't offer the same kind of housing, for example and they have also made some pretty dubious and regressive design choices, in the past, against their own players' better judgement and repeated pleas for them to not do so.

To the extent that they had to stop publishing their sub numbers, after these ill-advised changes, as the fall in them had been so dramatic...

So, I am certainly not writing as a WoW fangirl, here.

Having said that, it is just a fact that ESO absolutely starves you of inv and bank space, relative to other games.

Unless you count making endless mules, which you can also do in the other games mentioned, on top of the far more generous baseline storage amounts.

In other words, double far too little, with ESO+, is still too little.

Especially if you are here, to a substantial extent, for something inv-intensive, like housing.

Also, GW2 gives you a basic craft bag for free (or included with the initial purchase price of the game, technically).

As opposed to ESO, where if you don't pay a sub and you try to gather anything at all, you are left totally floundering with your already woeful basic (even if you don't gather) inv and bank space amount.

This design choice not only torments non-sub players (as it is no doubt designed to do, to try to persuade them to sub), it also torments sub players, who are just trying to buy a specific material from guild stores.

As they not only have to travel all over the map to buy it - which they don't have to do in either of the other games mentioned - but, also, have to wade through multiple listings of only one, or two, items listed at a time, on TTC first.

This is because the poor newer players have no choice but to sell one Decorative Wax, or Mundane Rune, at a time, to try to free up some bag/bank space.

They can't just collect a full stack and then sell it, as they would do in either WoW, or GW2.

Obviously, there are reasons (in ESO's favour) why I have remained here for so long (so far), despite all this, as opposed to defecting back to either WoW, or GW2.

However, the fact remains that ESO does not stack up well beside either of them, in this particular regard.

Just saying it offers more for your money though is incredibly misleading because it is all based on what you value more for your money.

I absolutely agree that WoW does far better on expansions then ESO does but that is where it ends.

You say WoW is better for inventory but that is 100% misleading. If you want to say it gives you far easier to obtain inventory spaces and a few more that is true in only that way, but ESO actually offers you TONS more inventory space with the crafting bag.

If you were to keep all the crafting components in WoW ON your character, how much room would you have left for inventory? be honest now . The crafting bag from ESO means ALL the crafting components goes into the bag and not your bank or inventory. That saves me at least 200 inventory slots for each item PLUS unlimited stacks. In WoW if you get over something like 200 you start a new stack right? It happened to me a lot while questing in WoW, and please don't act like crafting mats in wow don't take much space because I have mats.

So your argument that WoW gives more inventory space is not true simply because of the crafting bag from ESO+.
Also add in 1650 crowns for subbing to ESO+ while WoW has zero special currency in that regard.
Also add in that ESO+ gives you +10% xp/+10% craftingXP

Now what else do you get for being a WoW subscriber? We are not talking DLC because both games require you purchase the newest expansion to play it while both games also give you all older expansions included in subbing so both are the same here. Again, WoW offers MUCH better expansions, but that isn't the question, the question is strictly subbing.

And how does ESO starve you for space? I have 480 bank slots availbale to all my toons all the time PLUS another 360 spots in my house so I have a total of 840 bank slots technically of SHARED bank space which I much prefer to WoW individual space.

My characters in ESO all have 210 slots in personal inventory if I remember which I NEVER run out of space. With my free crowns I have been able to purchase the portable banker and merchant so space is never an issue. In WoW I run out of space after every dungeon run if I don't sell and almost everything is garbage for just a few gold and I have the 40 slot bags on all my characters for almost max space, I think it's the 40 slot bags anyway lol.

And my house was free from doing the main quest line in Northern Elsewyr and I got all my storage free by just spending in game writ vouchers I had tons of, and the main quest line took like 2 hours to do so it is not a hard line to complete. I can add 3 more additions to my house by doing a couple of achievements that I just have messed around with but they aren't hard or time consuming either.

So once again, please tell me how the SUBBING in WoW is better and how the inventory space is better.

You need to change characters in WoW to get to your extra inventory space and I don't in ESO, it is all readily available to all my characters almost all times unless they have it actually equipped. If you want to add ALL your characters in WoW together you end up with more bank space that you have to load and reload to access and mail to your other toons if I remember right, ESO has it all accessible.

While I wish ESO did even close to what WoW adds for expansions, ESO is far and away better for straight subbing.

I don't really know what to say to this that I haven't said already.

All I can say is that I have never felt so inventory starved as I do in ESO, even as a perpetual ESO+ subber, in any other game of this type.

I run out of space after every dungeon run, here (or sometimes, during them!), whereas I generally didn't in WoW.

This is because every other game of this type I have played adds more slots, or access to more slots, every time they add new content/items.

ESO doesn't do that, it's as simple as that.

Going on about mules is entirely missing the point because, as I have already said, you can make mules in all of these games.

The difference being that, in other games, you are making them over and above the extra slots they give you to use on your main and also on each alt (if you want), every time they add new content.

Whereas, in ESO, the mules you are virtually forced to make are the only way to add inventory space, the vast majority of the time.

Unless you include the cute, but virtually useless +5 slots per character pets we can now buy, which (once again) grossly over emphasise the importance of making endless storage mules.

Maybe the issue here is that you just haven't been playing this game long enough, yet, to see the problem?

...and/or are such a natural altaholic, anyway, that the alt method of storage suits you (so far!), when it doesn't suit everyone else?

As I have already mentioned twice now, on this thread, unlike other games, this game doesn't give you extra inventory/bank space every time it gives you extra content/items.

That is just a fact.

Now, maybe you are coping well with that situation, so far, but you coping with a situation doesn't stop it being a fact.

...and in answer to "Now what else do you get for being a WoW subscriber?", I am (or would be, if I still played) getting potential access to virtually everything in the entire game.

Virtually all costumes/outfits/armour, virtually all mounts (a few of which will probably be locked behind hard content, but certainly not all, or even most), virtually all pets, all extra storage...

Virtually everything the game has to offer, in other words!

This is assuming things haven't changed drastically in that way, anyway, which I haven't heard they have and bluebird certainly seems to be confirming that they have not.

Tigerseye · July 2020

Danikat wrote: »

I agree that the current ESO+ subscription isn't good value for money (which is why I don't use it) but I'm not sure this system is the way to go. It would probably just lead to some people getting 1/2 price subs because they buy one month with real money then one with crowns, and other people who already have large stacks of crowns may be able to get free sub time for quite a long time.

I'm not sure what would be a better system than what we have, without completely re-working the system to address issues like people who are only interested in the craft bag, but I don't think offering sub time for crowns would work out.

Tigerseye wrote: »

This design choice not only torments non-sub players (as it is no doubt designed to do, to try to persuade them to sub), it also torments sub players, who are just trying to buy a specific material from guild stores.

As they not only have to travel all over the map to buy it - which they don't have to do in either of the other games mentioned - but, also, have to wade through multiple listings of only one, or two, items listed at a time, on TTC first.

This is because the poor newer players have no choice but to sell one Decorative Wax, or Mundane Rune, at a time, to try to free up some bag/bank space.

They can't just collect a full stack and then sell it, as they would do in either WoW, or GW2.

For what it's worth I will routinely break up stacks of materials to sell 10 at a time in my guild store and it's not because I'm desperate to sell odd random ones, it's because the trading system we have is also annoyingly restrictive for buyers. Unlike GW2 (not sure about WoW) a buyer can't choose to buy only some of what a seller is offering, you have to take the whole amount or nothing at all.

There were many, many times when I was new (and even sometimes now) when I needed a particular material to craft something but couldn't afford or just didn't want to buy a whole stack of 200, but had no other choice because everyone was listing stacks of 200, trying to squeeze maximum profit out of very limited trader spaces to meet the fees they have to pay for that trader that's all that was available.

So now I'm in a casual guild which happens to have a trader but no sales requirements and I'm not in any particular rush to sell stuff I tend to fill spaces with small amounts of whatever materials I have loads of, and they almost always sell (the ones that don't are stuff like steel, which probably no one needs).

Yeah, I see what you mean.

But, in the case of people who are, literally, only listing one or two materials in one listing (and are only posting one listing of them, at a time), they are clearly doing it because, without a basic craft bag, they have no choice but to.

Dusk_Coven · July 2020

Tigerseye wrote: »

But, in the case of people who are, literally, only listing one or two materials in one listing (and are only posting one listing of them, at a time), they are clearly doing it because, without a basic craft bag, they have no choice but to.

Oh?
I thought it was a tactic to get foot traffic from people doing searches on the TTC website.
List a few commonly sought items like style stones at a very low price. You don't lose a lot of money but people will go to your stall for the deal and maybe stay to browse the rest of the store and the nearby stalls?

But I don't run a guild trader so I don't know for sure. I feel people who are in guilds who can secure prime spots would rather sell a bigger item than a handful of single style stones. Yet those very same guilds / guilds in those locations frequently list a bunch of single unit style stone sales at a low price compared to the NPC vendor.
If those people needed the inventory space I imagine they'd just toss that single item in favour of higher profits from a bigger sale at a prime location where you can often ask for a higher price. Unless they want to pick up pennies expecting that single style stone to quickly sell.