VaranisArano wrote: »

If you just want to do overland content, you can do whatever you want. The difficulty is low enough to allow a huge variety of builds. (And the difficulty is low enough that most people don't need to put points in health, which along with the presence of healers in group content is why you rarely see that.)

If you want to do group content, you gotta fulfill your role. That means tanking properly, healing/buffing group members, or passing DPS checks according to the content you want to do. There's still a lot of flexibility to fill roles without following the meta, but you do have to be able to actually play your role appropriately.

If you want to PVP, it's entirely up to you how effective you want to be.

So what content do you want to do? A "warrior" build seems fitting for questing, tanking, damage dealer ( as long as you do sufficient DPS) or PVP.

Thank you for your answer.

Yeah, as you said the fact that in order to fulfil a role nowadays, you almost must follow a bloody meta. A warrior/Tank nowadays to be performant need to compromise on the interpretation as well, that's what hurts me. Why?

Example: https://alcasthq.com/eso-stamina-dragonknight-tank-build-pve/

A lighting staff on a warrior is just... not right. Do you know what I mean?

Ravenje wrote: »

A lighting staff on a warrior is just... not right. Do you know what I mean?

1. It depends on how you define a Warrior Build
2. Yes, you can create a Stupid build in this game, and you can stand in Stupid too. Just don't be Stupid
3. Then again, if you have a Good Rotation, it is hard to be Stupid in this game. I mean you have to be really Smart to be Stupid in this game if you have a Good Rotation.

Ravenje wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

If you just want to do overland content, you can do whatever you want. The difficulty is low enough to allow a huge variety of builds. (And the difficulty is low enough that most people don't need to put points in health, which along with the presence of healers in group content is why you rarely see that.)

If you want to do group content, you gotta fulfill your role. That means tanking properly, healing/buffing group members, or passing DPS checks according to the content you want to do. There's still a lot of flexibility to fill roles without following the meta, but you do have to be able to actually play your role appropriately.

If you want to PVP, it's entirely up to you how effective you want to be.

So what content do you want to do? A "warrior" build seems fitting for questing, tanking, damage dealer ( as long as you do sufficient DPS) or PVP.

Thank you for your answer.

Yeah, as you said the fact that in order to fulfil a role nowadays, you almost must follow a bloody meta. A warrior/Tank nowadays to be performant need to compromise on the interpretation as well, that's what hurts me. Why?

Example: https://alcasthq.com/eso-stamina-dragonknight-tank-build-pve/

A lighting staff on a warrior is just... not right. Do you know what I mean?

I said you have to fulfill your role.

If you tank, you gotta be able to hold boss aggro and survive.
If you heal, well, you gotta be able to survive and keep your group alive.
If you deal damage, you gotta deal damage appropriate to the content difficulty.

However you do that is up to you.

Once you hit vet trials though, that's a team effort between 12 people. At that point, you wear what your group will accept because that's what's best for the team.

You can tank all content in the game without ever picking up a staff.

The staff will give you more DPS to go with your tanking but is absolutely not needed unless trying to get competitive scores as mentioned by another player.

I play a DK tank and I have sword/shield on both bars and I can do all vet content as well as all vet trials, just remember, the staff tactic opens up new options for crowd control/dps to help your group.

Don't be surprised or upset if you join a trials group who isn't happy if you aren't playing the meta.

Any guild you are in doing trials should already know so it should be a moot point and any decent guild won't care. A competitive guild probably will, but will depend on the guild.

Just be up front from the beginning and you'll be fine.

Be careful saying no decent tank would ever use a staff though, I have a feeling Elminster and Zifnab might want a word with you as they could technically tank better then any armor plated warrior could ever dream of. Of course they are extreme examples, but this is a game about magic so there are really no rules.

If you don't want to be told how to interpret a warrior than why are you bothering to look up guides? Just pick a race you like (you mention the TES saga so I assume you're familiar enough with them to have a preference), pick a class who's description fits your idea of a warrior, and go from there. Try out 2 handed weapons, dual wield, bow and even sword and board if it floats your boat.

Experiment with different abilities and stat emphasis to see how different things increase or decrease your effectiveness. If you want to deal damage with abilities that use stamina you're going to want to emphasize stamina, weapon damage, weapon crit and physical penetration, not because it's meta but because math. But don't worry there's plenty of ways you can add to all those stats without having to follow some specific guide.

It's generally not worth putting points into health unless you plan on tanking because if you want to add health to your setup you can get more bang for your buck by other means. An attribute point into health gives you 222 health, whereas a health bonus on a gear set will give you just over 1,000 and a trait on jewelry will give you just under 1,000. In most cases you won't need it because food gives you between 3,000 to 7,000. So using gear for a boost to health when you do want it is more efficient and gives more flexibility.

The key thing if you don't want to follow guides is to just be self aware and self critical. When you're playing overland you're going to be slaughtering everything in sight, don't assume that means you hit the jackpot on your build and can rest easy, instead look at how you can make it better.

Sword and board really isn't a good DPS weapon. I have a Stam warden who uses sword and board with a bow, she melts overland without even needing to pull out her bear, but when I take her in to dungeons I play her as a Stam healer because I would never go into vet group content spamming power bash. I also have a Stam sorcerer I mostly use in PvP with sword & board and 2 handed, when I take him into dungeons I slap on a health set and play him as a tank, because that's what's most effective for him in that setting.

As you level up and get into more difficult group content you might need to tighten up your build, and knowing what's trending will help give you ideas of where you can fill in the holes on your setup. You can get that knowledge from various guides, or word of mouth, or even reading the forums, it's up to you but a combination of all three is probably best since the more information you have at your disposal the more suited you'll be to play how you want while still being effective.

It's not unless you eventually get into vet trails that a group might request you to be running specific abilities and gear sets. But don't take that personally, it's generally not related to your individual performance but rather how you synergize with the group to maximize buff and debuf up time, and after the run is over you can re-equip whatever gear and abilities you fancy the most. And until then you're free to experiment as much as you like, you don't need to follow the meta just the math.

A “warrior” class backbars a staff for a multitude of reasons whilst being a tank. Lightning staff with blockade provides off-balance and tanks running 1 tank 3 dd content can proc Olorime from it should they desire to run it. It will apply your crusher enchant, and should they wish to heavy attack for magicka back their backbar is the option whereas the sword and board heavy will return stamina. Tanks have to manage all 3 resource pools effectively. Ice staff backbar will keep defences high, will taunt on heavy attack, provide magicka back as the lightning staff does and it also costs magicka to block an attack with an ice staff rather than stamina. Ice staff isn’t as common as lightning staff, but still very solid.

If youre talking DPS warrior - any and all classes have a mag and stam alternative depending on your race and what weapons you equip. For example stam classes will either 2h or dual wield front bar and bow backbar. Mag will always double destruction staff (mainly inferno, lightning is reserved for tanks and healers in trials). So your comment about NB with a staff is just a magicka nightblade and theyre very effective at the moment.

The games as diverse as it comes.. but the minute you group with other people in harder content you’re going to be expected to pull your weight and i’m afraid unless you’re min/maxing majority of the time people won’t stand for it. Some dungeons and overland do as you please, even normal trials. But veteran onwards people have expectations unfortunately.

Ravenje wrote: »

In the end, I decided to don't play at all. Thanks to all your replies I figured out that this is not the game I hoped it was.

To clarify, I knew why the lightning staff is used in Builds, and I understand that it will give good bonuses. But this is my problem, the fact that to get those bonuses you have to compromise your interpretation. The developer had many ways to avoid this in the first place. I don't know, the same bonuses of a lightning staff could have been applied to a shield, a ring, a stupid necklace, I don't care, but be more coherent.

In this game, you are forced to compromise everything to be considered worth.

I know people that never cared about min/max or vet. But they confessed: we are missing game contents! Just because they were not willing to compromise interpretation, or because they have no free time to spend learning and testing mathematics values against a dummy to get the best DPS ever seen.

Quests, skill improvements, Vet dungeon or not, none of these should require any specific builds or setup. I'm a warrior, I have unlocked these skills so far; now is HOW I make use of these skills that makes the difference. Rewarding the ability of a player.

Also for who said that seeing a warrior with a lightning staff is normal or that there is nothing wrong in using magic to boost your power etc...

A warrior can't be a mage. Period. You can dedicate your life to the art of sword, axe, bow and so on, OR you can develop magic abilities. You can do both? Sure, but you will never be a master of both. In this game, things are inversed. If you use both arts you are stronger than someone who stood and trained the main one in his class.

It makes me sad that you decided not to play when what you wanted to play could be 100% viable for all but the top 1% of score chasing trial guilds. (any let's be honest 99% of us will never be the top 1%) I don't know if you wanted to be a tank or a DPS but both would have been fine without ever picking up a staff or putting a single point into magicka. Where you put attribute points ends up really not mattering all that much compared to armor bonus, food, mundus stones, and CP anyway. All attribute points together end up only being between 7100 magicka/stamina or 7800 health which is like 20% of where most people sit on one stat. You could have been a tank with a sword and shield on one bar and a giant viking axe in the other, or a great sword and bow for dps or really whatever combination floats your boat.