What's the point in having vdlc dungeon in random rotation

amm7sb14_ESO · July 2020

newtinmpls wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

[It gets tiresome knowing that I am going to have to explain the mechanics every. single. time.

I am sad that this impairs your enjoyment.

I remember the first time two friends and I queued for a random and got Ruins of Mazzatun. None of us done it; and the tank was the PUG member of the party.

I really wish that I could recall and compliment that player. Asked if we knew the mechs, all of us said we'd never done it. So every darn room he would (briefly in typed chat) tell us where to stand, where to throw AoE's and that he would do pulls.

It was [snip] incredible. Never seen tanking like that. Never wanted to be a tank - never really thought about it.

I'd never really had any meaningful experiences one way or the other with random "real" or "fake" tanks, but this really showed me the potential of really good taking, and really good leadership. That tank gave us one of the best, most compassionate, most educational experiences I've ever had in game.

So I reiterate a point I've been making lately: Communicate!

If that means asking "do you know this dungeon" and if no, leaving, that's cool

If that means an agreement to discuss/warn about each mechanics - well it's more fun than crashing and burning (for me, anyway).

And for me...if I end up in most of the DLC's (vet or not) during a random, I just leave, 'cause most of them are frankly too annoying. I have no use for "hop on one foot while whistling a song" level meaningless tricky stuff that is irritating, not challenging.

[Edited for Censor Bypass]

Let me elaborate: I dont have a problem helping and explaining. I have done it a lot. I was helped a lot. Everyone has to start somewhere.

But its tiring when its every single time. Sometimes I dont want to spend an hour plus on a dungeon. Maybe I have other things I want to get to that session, or even get off the game at some point. When it is literally every time I do a dungeon like Unhallowed Grave, it gets tedious. So I stop PUG'ing and only group with my guild after awhile.

Sometimes you wanna just play, ya know?

josiahva · July 2020

DigitalHype wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

You people are acting as if the 100k experience you get for your random daily actually matters...if you are worried about the difficulty of queueing for a random VET DLC dungeon....DON'T QUEUE FOR VET, the rewards for normal ARE EXACTLY THE SAME...there is no need to queue for vet if the rewards are what you are after....you are complaining about something when you can avoid it simply by queueing for normal instead...that way you don't have to stress about getting less experience or a dungeon that is beyond your capability(or time you want to invest). If you are looking for monster masks or purple gear to decon, then just queue for specific vet dungeons.

Again this isn't the point. NON-DLC and non-ESO+ members do not have the penalty. Every day they get to queue the random dungeon normal and only deal with non-dlc dungeon difficulties. It's less of a time sink and less of a hassle for non-paying customers. This is bad design.

So...what you are wanting is people who enjoy only the more difficult dungeons to be forced to play vanilla dungeons, but those who enjoy only the vanilla dungeons to not have to play the more difficult ones? This is hypocritical in all honesty. Its called a RANDOM dungeon because you could get any dungeon that exists. You know as well as I do that ZOS is not going to give people free content....which is why the DLC dungeons don't show up for those who dont own the content(either outright or through ESO Plus)...but by taking DLC dungeons out of the random queue...its not a random queue at all is it? The only solution would be to separate them into 2 completely different queues and I don't see ZOS doing that either with how people already complain about queue times....it would only make them longer. To solution is just not queue for vet if you dont want to spend some time doing it. normal DLC dungeons are no real challenge and can easily be completed even by level 10 characters(I know, I have done it...though the last time one of my characters was that low was probably around SoTH or HoTR, so they may have placed restrictions since then for later ones)

Grandchamp1989 · July 2020

I Tank most of my DLC vet in PUG
GF does most of her DLC Vet in PUG

You can usually tell by the first trash pool or at the very least by the first boss whether or not the group got enough DPS to clear the dungeon. Of not it's in everyone's best interest to call it the day.

We did around 5 vMF today PUG, only had to quit one due to low DPS so for the most part people seem to understand there's a minimum DPS threshold for vet DLC before it gets ridiculous.

High DPS - Knows mech - easy run
High DPS - doesn't know mechs - medium run
low DPS - knows mech - Tedious, so so tedious
Low DPS - doesn't know mech - forget it

Grandchamp1989 · July 2020

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

There was just a thread about this: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/537436/option-to-exclude-dlc-dungeons-from-the-random-queue-for-plus-members/p1

I think most of it has to do with the incredible spike in difficulty from vBase to vDLC.

I will say that I don't run the daily random unless I'm in a group with my guild since I don't want to end up in a dungeon I don't know, and I'm still learning how to do vet DLCs. I've had enough bad experiences PUGging the basegame pledges that I can see why support roles don't like to PUG.

It's just obnoxious to be in a vet basegame dungeon and get blamed for not doing your job when the squishy DPS is standing in the red the whole time, or running out of the heals, or running behind the tank and getting hit with a cone AoE. Or for tanks, when you claw everything down and the DPS can't even burn the trash down before the root expires and they scatter so you have to get them all back in, or when the DPS charges ahead of you and then runs around the room like crazy and complains that you aren't chaining all 15 adds in immediately while you're trying to maintain the stack you did make with no resources. All while the DPS is spamming light attacks and doing less than 10k DPS without AoE damage or synergies. I've noticed those are also the ones who trash talk the most in dungeons about 'l2p' and initiate votes to kick...

EDIT: not that I'm implying that all DPS are bad - there are plenty of examples of tanks who forget to taunt or pierce armor or something, and healers who don't know how to throw out AoE heals or synergies as well. A vDLC really requires all four roles to play pretty well, so any one weak link is a problem and leade to a long run or an incomplete.

I've had one or two PUGs that really made me stop to think if I really wanted to do group content with randoms. It's thankless, everyone expects perfection (and some expect carries), and there's no way to learn how to do support roles well without a guild. I can't imagine subjecting myself to that for a vDLC. I'll only do vDLC with a guild that's willing to teach me mechanics and correct my mistakes without being condescending, and voice comms are pretty well required for that.

But here's the thing for me - I don't do the random daily. I don't want to end up in a dungeon I don't feel comfortable with, so I don't waste anyone's time by signing up hoping for FGI. There are a lot of support roles who will just sign in and drop just to get that sweet XP from a vet basegame since they are able to drop and requeue before the original group even gets a replacement. I would not be opposed to increasing the deserter penalty in those cases.

I agree with so much of what you said.

Normal Falkreath Hold. One of my very first tanking attempts (probably not the best dungeon for an early tank run, admittedly, but it's what the random gave me). I don't even remember how far we got, or what happened, because as far as I knew I was doing my job. But before we even got to a boss, someone just commented in group chat "Worst tank ever"

No attempt to even ask me if I knew mechanics, just a straight up "worst tank ever". I don't have time for that. So I dipped.

lolol tanking PUG is like being a punching bag when it comes to bad player's frustration.

I fully understand why there's a shortage of Tank players. You spend your entire build centered around keeping people alive. This makes SOME dps players utterly lazy and they will stand in red circles, walk infront of the boss, and scream at you if they got an add on them. Meanwhile you're holding 2 bosses and 3 adds by yourself barely able to see 2 feet infront of you, hoping your stamina doesn't run out before the next heavy attack arrives. It's like dude.. It's an add. destroy it.. block.. roll dodge.. do something.

The absolute meatheads I've played with lol. I prefer tanking Vet DLC. Hardmode Bloodroot, Mazzatun, Falkreath no problem...

Then the other day I was farming some Automan set on my tank because que is faster.. Darkshade Caverns 1 lol
Last boss shoot in the air and the projectiles land on as ground based AOEs you shouldn't stand in. (of the mech), 810CP DPS stands smack dead in the middle of red and dies.
I rez him... he stand in red and dies again...
"Trash tank" he says. lol apparently he doesn't know I can't tank red circles on the ground..

BisDasBlutGefriert · July 2020

I look at it as a challenge. Okay, we just lost our tank...and...there goes our healer. Dang! Ah well, let's CRUSH this thing! with, or without them!

Dusk_Coven · July 2020

XxCaLxX wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

XxCaLxX wrote: »

Idk why it can’t just be like it was a few years ago when you queued for a dungeon and got the ready check it would say what dungeon it was. I know they had reasons to remove that feature but getting queued faster only for members to leave kinda defeats the purpose.

Maybe because people left pre-emptively when they saw what they didn't like or when it wasn't Fungal Grotto I?
Whatever sounds reasonable, enough players will exploit to ruin it for everyone else.

Not sure if you’re understanding what I’m saying. If you’re queued and ready check pops up and says accept for vet falkreath or whatever then if you’re just looking for FG I or whatever then you’re not going to accept the ready check to just leave group therefore you’re not wasting yours or others time by loading into dungeon, leaving and forcing others to just q to fill that spot again.

Yes. But did people decline every dungeon except the easiest ones? If they did, then those other people waiting for a harder dungeon would be waiting a lot longer anyway. Many games I've seen do NOT let you see what's coming precisely because people would decline everything except what they like; then they add a deserter penalty unless you stay for a while -- i.e., you actually give the dungeon a try. Without these, people who need a group for something specific might never fill.

Random Dungeon isn't really random. It's which dungeon instances need backfilling or what specific dungeons people need. That's the point of "random" dungeon.

Mortiis13 · July 2020

Today's player (especially the battle royal gen) don't want to invest much time (or can't).

When you played mmorpg 2005 or even before players played the game for the "adventure" mostly, sometimes you chated with the players longer when the whole dungeon would take, every guild had to explore the mechanics by themselves, including lot of whipes. Even more so with random ppl.
In the last 10 years it's just for the loot or the archivments. Every thing getting skipped, you can't read the story of a dungeon quest or you get kicked.
Most players today need atleast 3 treats per hour. Everything is min/maxed.
A lot lost the fun to play a game, instead they work the game.

That's atleast my experience in the last years, especially because I was one of the players who worked the game and lost the fun.

Dark_Lord_Kuro · July 2020

Because these dungeon are a waste of time