You can’t leave snipe how it is

Fawn4287 · July 2020

This ability is ridiculous, purely and only because of how glitchy and buggy it is, please change how it operates, to constantly and consistently see 2 snipes in my deathfeed that have desynchronised my health bar for between 5.5-9k each is insane that I can have taken almost 20k damage and not know it. This is an abused and exploited mechanic that desperately needs to change.

gatekeeper13 · July 2020

Yesterday I met an EP stamDK in Cyro and after 1 sec I was dead from Venomous Claw (x2 ticks), Noxious (x4), Dizzying Swing, Executioner, HA. Dizzying alone needs 0,8 sec to fire.

Desyncs are everywhere, not just in Snipe. Snipe is fine. Leave it as it is.

Syrusthevirus187 · July 2020

This guy just said snipe is fine

auz · July 2020

Lol. Snipe the most busted skill in the. Hitting for more than 10k against 25k + resistances. Where is the counter play to a 10k plus skill hitting from more than 30m away? That also has a better than average chance to desync.

gatekeeper13 · July 2020

Midshieldgard wrote: »

Syrusthevirus187 wrote: »

This guy just said snipe is fine

[Quoted post was removed]

Speak about people you know, not about people you have no clue about. I don't know what you consider "higher levels" but my khajiit bow NB is a Tribune and I pvp mostly in close, almost melee range and never gank or spam Snipe, except when defending keeps from zergs and ball groups. Outside this situations, Snipe is 80% removed from my skill bars. Also, Snipe is a skill very easy not to die from since after getting hit for the 1st time, you can roll dodge and be safe from a second or a third one that will kill you. My build is only Divines, my resistances are 16% mitigation, health is 19k and still almost never die from it. What kills you, is actually a DESYNC. Not Snipe. Same desync that can let someone 1-shot you with 5 skills in 1 sec and see your health drop from 100%-0%, no matter if you heard only the first hit.

[snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Rianai · July 2020

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

Midshieldgard wrote: »

Syrusthevirus187 wrote: »

This guy just said snipe is fine

[Quoted post was removed]

Speak about people you know, not about people you have no clue about. I don't know what you consider "higher levels" but my khajiit bow NB is a Tribune and I pvp mostly in close, almost melee range and never gank or spam Snipe, except when defending keeps from zergs and ball groups. Outside this situations, Snipe is 80% removed from my skill bars. Also, Snipe is a skill very easy not to die from since after getting hit for the 1st time, you can roll dodge and be safe from a second or a third one that will kill you. My build is only Divines, my resistances are 16% mitigation, health is 19k and still almost never die from it. What kills you, is actually a DESYNC. Not Snipe. Same desync that can let someone 1-shot you with 5 skills in 1 sec and see your health drop from 100%-0%, no matter if you heard only the first hit.

[snip]

Oh, so it is ok to only have counterplay AFTER already taken potentially 10k+ dmg, cc and debuffs to the face IF i'm not getting desynced to beginn with, which this skills is very prone to do? And even if i'm not getting desynced i have to immediately start spam dodge roll or i'm going to die to someone who does nothing but press a single button 2-3 times from safe distance and you srsly wanna tell me "snipe is fine"?
Also you can't separate snipe and desyncs. It is an issue with this very specific skill and different from other desyncs, both when it comes to the duration those have been in the game as well as the frequency of occurrence. It is also the only bug in the game that get's defended so adamantly, which just shows how many are afraid of losing any relevance in the extremely unlikely case their exploit gets fixed.

xXMeowMeowXx · July 2020

Midshieldgard wrote: »

Syrusthevirus187 wrote: »

This guy just said snipe is fine

[Quoted post was removed]

Actually @gatekeeper13 is right with what he said about snipe. There are many skills that are spammed and cause a dsync.

People complaining about this skill are pretty new to PvP or just not good players.

I know this because they are not complaining about the other skills, that I melt peeps with on a daily basis.

Snipe is a counter to such builds and is open to all classes if they so wish. So honestly the only thing busted, is people not learning you’re going to lose sometimes.

It is a game and I certainly don’t enjoy getting DcD or lag city when I am in a 1 v X or 2 v X.

So if people are insulting this skill and not the rest, that is on them and says a lot. Also, it makes your opinion moot, as you moved off of the topic....

People should also learn to block once in a while, rather then run or take a face full of damage.

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

Yesterday I met an EP stamDK in Cyro and after 1 sec I was dead from Venomous Claw (x2 ticks), Noxious (x4), Dizzying Swing, Executioner, HA. Dizzying alone needs 0,8 sec to fire.

Desyncs are everywhere, not just in Snipe. Snipe is fine. Leave it as it is.

He mentioned how it really is honestly.

Brrrofski · July 2020

The decync aside (which snipe isn't the only culprit), the skill is fine. I get sniped all day by regular builds and it doesn't do much.

The issue is how much damage you can generate from stealth with it.

Titanborn was the first big issue. You could use equalibriam to proc this out of combat. Clever alch was nerfed for this very reason. Titanborn should be adjusted so the added damage procs "While in combat, and below 75% health etc". It would take away the crazy one shot damage without hurting the set for any other use.

The new vamp toggle also buffed snipe indirectly. But, this by itself isn't a big deal. The synergy with Titanborn (as it procs is is the issue).

Change Titanborn to my suggestion, the stupid one shot, no counteract gameplay goes with it.

Yes, you can still gank without Titanborn as people were before. But it required combos. Snipe, snipe, medium attack, silver shards, light attack, solves shard etc. There was a lot more counterplay, and ganking was a little more skill based.

And please nobody say that Titanborn has risk. On a keep wall, it has zero.

The change to the NB passive has slightly nerfed bankers though (flat SD instead of 10%), so we'll see if that does anything.

gatekeeper13 · July 2020

Rianai wrote: »

Oh, so it is ok to only have counterplay AFTER already taken potentially 10k+ dmg, cc and debuffs to the face IF i'm not getting desynced to beginn with, which this skills is very prone to do? And even if i'm not getting desynced i have to immediately start spam dodge roll or i'm going to die to someone who does nothing but press a single button 2-3 times from safe distance and you srsly wanna tell me "snipe is fine"?
Also you can't separate snipe and desyncs. It is an issue with this very specific skill and different from other desyncs, both when it comes to the duration those have been in the game as well as the frequency of occurrence. It is also the only bug in the game that get's defended so adamantly, which just shows how many are afraid of losing any relevance in the extremely unlikely case their exploit gets fixed.

Everyone gets debuffs, cc and 10k dmg to the face, not only those hit by Snipe, although I don't know where this "10k Snipe dmg" comes from, most Snipe hits dont go over 6-7k (where's your mitigation?) (talking about NO-CP). Also MagSorcs hit like a horse from a safe distance and their skills do pretty high dmg. Just spamming Wrath can wipe many people with almost zero effort, not to mention Frags. Necros are insanely strong. Dizzying Swing/Executioner spammers in a crowded area can wipe players. So what? Nerf them too? Nerf anything that can kill us? Bow is an already weak weapon and Snipe is it's strongest skill in terms of dmg, although as I said I rarely use it since I consider it useless in non-ganking situations and 1vs1 fights. Most top players I ve fought, never got killed by it and had greater success using Magnum Shot, Injection and Bombard, because they simply know how to defend against it and heal the dmg done instantly.

Also, I don't get this "safe distance". If you get hit by Snipe from someone you can see, you can easily get to him and wipe him in melee range. There is no safe situation for a bow user, except for a ganker who spams Snipe and hides or runs away. If you mean "safe distance" in zerg situations, then it's not only Snipe that hits hard but also a myriad of other skills.

As for the desync, the desync is not caused by the skill but by the game's trash server. Ask ZOS to fix their server, not nerf the skill. Desyncs are actually in every single skill, it's not Snipe exclusive. Getting hit instanly by 5 skills without the chance to block or dodge isn't a problem but somehow Snipe is.

Elwendryll · July 2020

I'm playing a bow bow build currently. So I use snipe as my main spammable. To some people, slotting it is truly outrageous. I mean, I'm a stamsorc, and I tend to play pretty aggressively, in long-medium range, I'm not a nightblade ganker, I can win duels with that, even if it can get hard countered very hard by some builds/players. Worse than that, I use focused aim and not Lethal Arrow, so no defile.

And I often have to play against other people using snipe, and really, the sound cue is just so noticeable, it's very rare getting killed by that. There are desyncs, as with everything, but it's not a reason to stop using an ability. Snipe can be interrupted, leaving you quite vulnerable, and you can get stuck in casting for a few seconds. It is strong, yes (bound armaments still has a higher tooltip), but it isn't without counterplay, reflect abilities make me mostly useless for example xD

Naftal · July 2020

What other abilities desync you at range where you can queue enough damage to kill your enemy before they know there's an enemy nearby?

Seems like people defending the ability are ignoring OP.

jecks33 · July 2020

Snipe should have a 33% cost increase every second cast like streak/Bol

Bucky_13 · July 2020

What needs to change is the performance in Cyrodiil. Snipe is very much something that can be avoided outside of these heavy latency situations, and in these situations snipe isn't the only thing that causes instant death.

auz wrote: »

Lol. Snipe the most busted skill in the. Hitting for more than 10k against 25k + resistances. Where is the counter play to a 10k plus skill hitting from more than 30m away? That also has a better than average chance to desync.

I dunno, dodge maybe? Or block? Out of laggy combat that is.

cheemers · July 2020

Snipe is even getting buffer next patch with swamp raider. Smh

auz · July 2020

My favourite part of this thread is the snipe spammers telling other people to get good.

Fawn4287 · July 2020

cheemers wrote: »

Snipe is even getting buffer next patch with swamp raider. Smh

Nightblade crit buff on relentless, senches buff, crit resist nerf are essentially all direct buffs to nightblades and particularly snipe gankers

BlueRaven · July 2020

Another pvp based nerf thread, fantastic.

notyuu · July 2020

if it were up to me I would do the following with snipe

1: replace it with a 3 hit rapid shot, 1 second channel, can't crit
1a: morph 1 would allow crits
1b: morph 2 would make it 5 hits, no crits

2: replace the ult with a 2 seconds cast time100 meter snipe
2a: morph 1 makes it do aoe damage on impact
2b: morph 2 makes it bypass resistance of the target completely and debuff armour them

PizzaCat82 · July 2020

If you're getting hit with snipe, you're not hiding correctly.

If you're getting bombed, you're too close together.

Neither are fair and neither have any counterplay once the attacks go off if they are desynched.

Fawn4287 · July 2020

xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »

Midshieldgard wrote: »

Syrusthevirus187 wrote: »

This guy just said snipe is fine

[Quoted post was removed]

Actually @gatekeeper13 is right with what he said about snipe. There are many skills that are spammed and cause a dsync.

People complaining about this skill are pretty new to PvP or just not good players.

I know this because they are not complaining about the other skills, that I melt peeps with on a daily basis.

Snipe is a counter to such builds and is open to all classes if they so wish. So honestly the only thing busted, is people not learning you’re going to lose sometimes.

It is a game and I certainly don’t enjoy getting DcD or lag city when I am in a 1 v X or 2 v X.

So if people are insulting this skill and not the rest, that is on them and says a lot. Also, it makes your opinion moot, as you moved off of the topic....

People should also learn to block once in a while, rather then run or take a face full of damage.

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

Yesterday I met an EP stamDK in Cyro and after 1 sec I was dead from Venomous Claw (x2 ticks), Noxious (x4), Dizzying Swing, Executioner, HA. Dizzying alone needs 0,8 sec to fire.

Desyncs are everywhere, not just in Snipe. Snipe is fine. Leave it as it is.

He mentioned how it really is honestly.

By that logic anything can cause a desync but check the forums and see which skill is notoriously known for causing desyncs time and time again. I think its the polar opposite, most people that come to defend and use snipe are generally not good players, who play builds that revolve and centre around the skills snipe and shadowy disguise, 2 incredibly overpowered crutches.

Look at it this way, what other build can a person who is bad at PvP play that lets them stroll around casually in cyrodil solo with 3 damage sets and 25k health on? It is just unfair how big a crutch snipe is. No good players on a 1vX build use it, even the best 1 or 2vX players who would probably benefit from such a hard hitting, strong debuff skill never use it because they lack the bar space.

Fawn4287 · July 2020

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

Yesterday I met an EP stamDK in Cyro and after 1 sec I was dead from Venomous Claw (x2 ticks), Noxious (x4), Dizzying Swing, Executioner, HA. Dizzying alone needs 0,8 sec to fire.

Desyncs are everywhere, not just in Snipe. Snipe is fine. Leave it as it is.

Sounds like a connection issue, to take 4 seconds worth of damage in 1 second sounds like lag on your end, not the same type of bugged mechanics I am talking about here

visionality · July 2020

xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »

Actually @gatekeeper13 is right with what he said about snipe. There are many skills that are spammed and cause a dsync.

People complaining about this skill are pretty new to PvP or just not good players.

Snipe is different from other desyncing skills in that you can actively toggle the desync and exploiters brag about it. The only other skill combo I know about which gives you a 90+% desync chance is elemental weapon+overload. In both cases, if I see somebody using the exploit I know I see a player who is not good enough for the real game. But then - when have exploiters ever been?

TequilaFire · July 2020

edit - Never mind it will just get mods on my case.

NeillMcAttack · July 2020

visionality wrote: »

xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »

Actually @gatekeeper13 is right with what he said about snipe. There are many skills that are spammed and cause a dsync.

People complaining about this skill are pretty new to PvP or just not good players.

Snipe is different from other desyncing skills in that you can actively toggle the desync and exploiters brag about it. The only other skill combo I know about which gives you a 90+% desync chance is elemental weapon+overload. In both cases, if I see somebody using the exploit I know I see a player who is not good enough for the real game. But then - when have exploiters ever been?

If you can actively toggle a dysync with snipe, then this becomes a very different discussion. Maybe you should create a bug report instead of nerfing an otherwise balanced skill.

gatekeeper13 · July 2020

Fawn4287 wrote: »

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

Yesterday I met an EP stamDK in Cyro and after 1 sec I was dead from Venomous Claw (x2 ticks), Noxious (x4), Dizzying Swing, Executioner, HA. Dizzying alone needs 0,8 sec to fire.

Desyncs are everywhere, not just in Snipe. Snipe is fine. Leave it as it is.

Sounds like a connection issue, to take 4 seconds worth of damage in 1 second sounds like lag on your end, not the same type of bugged mechanics I am talking about here

No, it's not on my end. It's a server issue. That's what happens with Snipe in your situation. Someone spams 3 x Snipe, you don't receive the first hit but all 3 together as if you got the 1-2-3 hit but never tried to dodge or block. It's typical server desync issue.

Elwendryll · July 2020

I'm okay with changing a skill or set so it causes less calculations and as a result improves performance.

I'm not okay with changing a skill or set because it behaves in unintended ways in a laggy situation.

Fix the performance. Don't build the game around the idea that it's going to be laggy.

AmoralOne · July 2020

Snipe is fine.

The skill isnt the issue. Its lag on the server. The only reason you see it more with snipe is because of travel distance.

This happens with D-Swing, Exe, Meteors, the list goes on..

You've made this same post before. If you want Snipe nerfed/changed because of lag you have to change ever other skill that does it.

visionality · July 2020

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

visionality wrote: »

xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »

Actually @gatekeeper13 is right with what he said about snipe. There are many skills that are spammed and cause a dsync.

People complaining about this skill are pretty new to PvP or just not good players.

Snipe is different from other desyncing skills in that you can actively toggle the desync and exploiters brag about it. The only other skill combo I know about which gives you a 90+% desync chance is elemental weapon+overload. In both cases, if I see somebody using the exploit I know I see a player who is not good enough for the real game. But then - when have exploiters ever been?

If you can actively toggle a dysync with snipe, then this becomes a very different discussion. Maybe you should create a bug report instead of nerfing an otherwise balanced skill.

@NeillMcAttack I never asked for a nerf, and I wrote several bug reports to ZOS on this. I'm not the only one who did, too. But you know how things are with ZOS. Since it is a PVP issue, its not exactly high priority...

Bucky_13 · July 2020

visionality wrote: »

xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »

Actually @gatekeeper13 is right with what he said about snipe. There are many skills that are spammed and cause a dsync.

People complaining about this skill are pretty new to PvP or just not good players.

Snipe is different from other desyncing skills in that you can actively toggle the desync and exploiters brag about it. The only other skill combo I know about which gives you a 90+% desync chance is elemental weapon+overload. In both cases, if I see somebody using the exploit I know I see a player who is not good enough for the real game. But then - when have exploiters ever been?

No you can't. The thing is, most of the desynch kills from snipe happens in large keep/outpost battles. This is also on of the places where, irregardless of lags, snipe is a really good skill to use for both sides which means a lot of players use and spam it. When players stay on the same spot, they often get desynch killed. It can happen in other places too, but it's more rare.

In those battles I use snipe a lot because it's good skill when working as intended, unless I get the tell tale signs on desynch. In that case I can still kill players with it, but doing so leaves me open to getting killed from other players as getting 3 snipes off in one shot takes enough time to happen that it's easy to get killed while doing it. I prefer to use my other skills instead since they work more reliably and leave me open to avoid damage better when this happens.

Calling it a "toggle" is just silly though.

For more open battle, when I snipe ppl it's usually from sneak to get them stunned, to ensure the 2nd snipe hits before they respond, from my end it looks like those skills hit as they should. Whenever I get sniped in those situations, I usually survive unless I'm not paying attention since dodge and awareness of LOS is a very effective counter to snipe. Or shields, and a bunch of other skills.

visionality · July 2020

Bucky_13 wrote: »

visionality wrote: »

xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »

Actually @gatekeeper13 is right with what he said about snipe. There are many skills that are spammed and cause a dsync.

People complaining about this skill are pretty new to PvP or just not good players.

Snipe is different from other desyncing skills in that you can actively toggle the desync and exploiters brag about it. The only other skill combo I know about which gives you a 90+% desync chance is elemental weapon+overload. In both cases, if I see somebody using the exploit I know I see a player who is not good enough for the real game. But then - when have exploiters ever been?

No you can't. The thing is, most of the desynch kills from snipe happens in large keep/outpost battles. This is also on of the places where, irregardless of lags, snipe is a really good skill to use for both sides which means a lot of players use and spam it. When players stay on the same spot, they often get desynch killed. It can happen in other places too, but it's more rare.

In those battles I use snipe a lot because it's good skill when working as intended, unless I get the tell tale signs on desynch. In that case I can still kill players with it, but doing so leaves me open to getting killed from other players as getting 3 snipes off in one shot takes enough time to happen that it's easy to get killed while doing it. I prefer to use my other skills instead since they work more reliably and leave me open to avoid damage better when this happens.

Calling it a "toggle" is just silly though.

For more open battle, when I snipe ppl it's usually from sneak to get them stunned, to ensure the 2nd snipe hits before they respond, from my end it looks like those skills hit as they should. Whenever I get sniped in those situations, I usually survive unless I'm not paying attention since dodge and awareness of LOS is a very effective counter to snipe. Or shields, and a bunch of other skills.

You realize you are basically just saying: 'I do not know how the exploit works, so it cannot exist?'

TequilaFire · July 2020

visionality wrote: »

Bucky_13 wrote: »

visionality wrote: »

xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »

Actually @gatekeeper13 is right with what he said about snipe. There are many skills that are spammed and cause a dsync.

People complaining about this skill are pretty new to PvP or just not good players.

Snipe is different from other desyncing skills in that you can actively toggle the desync and exploiters brag about it. The only other skill combo I know about which gives you a 90+% desync chance is elemental weapon+overload. In both cases, if I see somebody using the exploit I know I see a player who is not good enough for the real game. But then - when have exploiters ever been?

No you can't. The thing is, most of the desynch kills from snipe happens in large keep/outpost battles. This is also on of the places where, irregardless of lags, snipe is a really good skill to use for both sides which means a lot of players use and spam it. When players stay on the same spot, they often get desynch killed. It can happen in other places too, but it's more rare.

In those battles I use snipe a lot because it's good skill when working as intended, unless I get the tell tale signs on desynch. In that case I can still kill players with it, but doing so leaves me open to getting killed from other players as getting 3 snipes off in one shot takes enough time to happen that it's easy to get killed while doing it. I prefer to use my other skills instead since they work more reliably and leave me open to avoid damage better when this happens.

Calling it a "toggle" is just silly though.

For more open battle, when I snipe ppl it's usually from sneak to get them stunned, to ensure the 2nd snipe hits before they respond, from my end it looks like those skills hit as they should. Whenever I get sniped in those situations, I usually survive unless I'm not paying attention since dodge and awareness of LOS is a very effective counter to snipe. Or shields, and a bunch of other skills.

You realize you are basically just saying: 'I do not know how the exploit works, so it cannot exist?'

And you are saying an exploit exists without providing proof.
Which is worse?