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Thrassian Stranglers stopping fishing for it got nerf to the ground
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TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭"Oh no! My easy mode button got turned off"
- Everyone angry about this change
You all knew that it was OP and a nerf was coming when the set was not only broken in PvP, but also PvE. Stop pretending that set was balanced when it gave more stats than ANY OTHER set in the game and was a 1-piece. More stats than 2 5-set pieces and had little downside to its application.
You know, a set might be OP and get a nerf if the following is true, more of the following increases the chance of it getting nerfed:
(a) The set cannot be replaced with any other set
(b) The set offers more raw stats than any other set
(c) The set has an artificial downside that does not actually matter when considering application of said set
(d) The set causes a balance problem between players on its own
(e) The set completely outclasses any other set available, whether its mathematically or through application
Following those guidelines can help you predict what would be nerfed.
When even Arch-mage had to be nerfed recently, how can anyone defend Stragglers?
Yeah good luck keeping your stacks for 30 seconds during the loading and cut screen before a boss. lol2 -
Veinblood1965✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I got them but haven't used them, this is worrying, the time it takes to acquire these is not easy only to have stats drastically changed. This is a very bad business model and makes me wonder why bother with anything in this game. It's why I quit for a while a while back, maybe some upcoming game will be better.
And btw I do enjoy the expansion quite a lot, but this does dampen the desire to buy the next one.3 -
Tanis-Stormbinder✭✭✭✭✭"Oh no! My easy mode button got turned off"
- Everyone angry about this change
You all knew that it was OP and a nerf was coming when the set was not only broken in PvP, but also PvE. Stop pretending that set was balanced when it gave more stats than ANY OTHER set in the game and was a 1-piece. More stats than 2 5-set pieces and had little downside to its application.
You know, a set might be OP and get a nerf if the following is true, more of the following increases the chance of it getting nerfed:
(a) The set cannot be replaced with any other set
(b) The set offers more raw stats than any other set
(c) The set has an artificial downside that does not actually matter when considering application of said set
(d) The set causes a balance problem between players on its own
(e) The set completely outclasses any other set available, whether its mathematically or through application
Following those guidelines can help you predict what would be nerfed.
When even Arch-mage had to be nerfed recently, how can anyone defend Stragglers?
It's called a Mystic item it should be OP as long as it has a risk/reward aspect to it. I just don't understand the heavy handed nerf. As I mentioned before a damage reduction was warranted and expected but this 30 second refresh is just to much.Edited by Tanis-Stormbinder on July 14, 2020 2:19PM4 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »"Oh no! My easy mode button got turned off"
- Everyone angry about this change
You all knew that it was OP and a nerf was coming when the set was not only broken in PvP, but also PvE. Stop pretending that set was balanced when it gave more stats than ANY OTHER set in the game and was a 1-piece. More stats than 2 5-set pieces and had little downside to its application.
You know, a set might be OP and get a nerf if the following is true, more of the following increases the chance of it getting nerfed:
(a) The set cannot be replaced with any other set
(b) The set offers more raw stats than any other set
(c) The set has an artificial downside that does not actually matter when considering application of said set
(d) The set causes a balance problem between players on its own
(e) The set completely outclasses any other set available, whether its mathematically or through application
Following those guidelines can help you predict what would be nerfed.
When even Arch-mage had to be nerfed recently, how can anyone defend Stragglers?
Yeah good luck keeping your stacks for 30 seconds during the loading and cut screen before a boss. lol
I think Kadoin describes the nerf-ability factors very well actually. I also agree that the proposed changes are too much. There is not enough opportunity to build all stacks in group content, and very few situations where they'll be retained long enough to be of any real use. If it worked like Siroria and gained a stack per damage tick dealt, the proposed changes would still provide a use case, but given that the stacks are only built by kills, they're flat out useless with that timer. They could have just cut the stack value to a 3rd for 50 SD/WD per kill, or limited stacks to 5 to introduce relative balance, or even done both with stack value at 50-60 and total stacks limited to 10 and still provide 500-600 permanent SD/WD until death/crouch/rezone, but they went totally overkill with this nerf.Tanis-Stormbinder wrote: »It's called a Mystic item it should be OP as long as it has a risk/reward aspect to it. I just don't understand the heavy handed nerf. As I mentioned before a damage reduction was warranted and expected but this 30 second refresh is just to much.
I agree, they could have simply increased the impact of using them on the player to 3% or even 4% per stack.
They had many options to approach this, but they went with the options to completely trash it. Of course, 624K vMA scores and 20 minute clears didn't help.
Edited by mairwen85 on July 14, 2020 2:32PM1 -
Nomad1098✭✭✭Wait, a piece of op gear got nerfed into to the ground the patch after it was released? First time playing during a new chapter? They do this every year to sell new stuff.0
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Suna_Ye_Sunnabe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It's a shame, you know. I knew the first truly fun item they introduced to combat in the entirety of my years of gameplay was too good to be true, because everything that feels too fun is nerfed, no matter what downsides and consequences it had, or skill it took to use. (Please see blood for blood.) Why does the concept of tuning elude you, developers, in favour of utter annihilation? I guarantee you, anything with potential will be seen as "overpowered" in the hands of a skilled player. No matter what it is. Ah, but then even weak armour sets and skills receive such treatment. Oh what fun complete standardization is for classes that should play as differently as night and day
Angua Anyammis Ae Sunna3 -
TineaCruris✭✭✭✭✭I think most aren't realizing what the antiquities system is for. It's not to deliver game breaking single item sets, it's to spread the player base over more zones/older zones and keep them there for a period of time.Edited by TineaCruris on July 14, 2020 4:16PM1
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Suna_Ye_Sunnabe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@TineaCruris And what's the point of spreading out and looking for things when the items you're told you'll get are destroyed not even two months after? Your reply is irrelevant to the issue at hand. The developers are insulting players' hard work yet again with not a tuning, but a complete ravage of an item that they may have bought Greymoor for entirely. Sowing more seeds of distrust. "Mythic" items indeed...Edited by Suna_Ye_Sunnabe on July 14, 2020 4:27PMAngua Anyammis Ae Sunna5 -
Sargesgaming✭✭✭Nerf to the ground?...uhhhh it still stacks still does alot of dmg and still ifs very usable...just not as high as it was, how is it not usable?? If they would have released it as the changes are now, guess what EVERYONE would still use the damn thing! LOL really its a change for the good I really dont see the downside to it? Tell me the negative about it, other than they changed the amount that it gives to you instead of god mode, now its actually something that makes sense to have, not 13000 spell dmg1
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Stahlor✭✭✭✭✭...30s is the big nerf. And "god mode" tells me, you have never really used it.Edited by Stahlor on July 14, 2020 6:32PM5
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Agenericname✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sargesgaming wrote: »Nerf to the ground?...uhhhh it still stacks still does alot of dmg and still ifs very usable...just not as high as it was, how is it not usable?? If they would have released it as the changes are now, guess what EVERYONE would still use the damn thing! LOL really its a change for the good I really dont see the downside to it? Tell me the negative about it, other than they changed the amount that it gives to you instead of god mode, now its actually something that makes sense to have, not 13000 spell dmg
The stacks dropping after 30 seconds. To gain the stack you need to make the killing blow, not simply an assist. This makes gaining 20 stack difficult at times. In a trial it can be extremely difficult. Trying maintain those stacks in the same type of environmen, even briefly, extremely difficult and closer to impossible on a lot of boss fights.
Either reduce the spell damage or let the stacks degrade. Either would reduce the overall spell damage, but both is a rather large nerf.
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asalemi✭✭✭Glad I didn’t waste time on Antiquities. RIP to people who will never get that time back.4
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Sargesgaming✭✭✭I would agree they should take off the timer, that will be the best but keep every other change they have made to lower the set as in reality damn OP for dmg output. With the numerical values lowered to the amount gained with each stack seems much more viable for an "everyone" equally. Although, yes the timer is a bit low, especially for content without alot of things to kill.
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Sargesgaming✭✭✭Kittytravel wrote: »The 30 second duration is only bad because it requires landing a KB. If the KB requirement was removed and instead became "On assist" then this would still be a viable piece but as it stands now it just ramps up too slowly and falls off too quickly to be of use because it's hard to guarantee those KBs.
The rest of the changes I think are wholeheartedly justified and are healthy changes; the addition of any duration is just way over the top.
I am going to be testing it out today, because if you look at it now it doesnt say on assist, it says killing an enemy...so that part of the tool tip was not changed0 -
Thechuckage✭✭✭✭✭To anyone who has been playing for a decent amount of time, how did you NOT see this coming? This happens all the time and could be seen 500 nautical miles out, painted day-glo orange.
And yes it does suck for those who put the time in to farm them. I once again feel vindicated in not buying greymor.
Last point for all those who feel your time has been devalued (laughs in vet maelstrom) - look back on the maelstrom weapons threads. Many people called it the canary in the coalmine. Didn't take too long to be proven right.4 -
Sargesgaming✭✭✭Thechuckage wrote: »To anyone who has been playing for a decent amount of time, how did you NOT see this coming? This happens all the time and could be seen 500 nautical miles out, painted day-glo orange.
And yes it does suck for those who put the time in to farm them. I once again feel vindicated in not buying greymor.
Last point for all those who feel your time has been devalued (laughs in vet maelstrom) - look back on the maelstrom weapons threads. Many people called it the canary in the coalmine. Didn't take too long to be proven right.
Truth, it really sucks, but it truly has just become a cash grab...and I am trying really really hard to stay interested and invested in this game. I am very very invested into it, very intrigued by it, very impressed by the things the game has produced graphics are 1 of the best MMO's out there, gameplay is really good for the most part (PVE), until you get tired of the same old stuff over and over at which point you are done with the interesting and great stuff anyhow....even still when they come out with more...it is actually pretty decent story driven (Again for the most part)
In reality they are going down a bad path to money hungry town, and that is saddening.... I am at a loss on what to do, keep fishing for that end game of being eaten by the whale, or moving on?
And before you say anything further to rebutle anything I have said, just know I am a Day 1 player, have done most of the end game, been over this current cap lvl since 3 years ago...and have the same thoughts and views as you or most end gamers, vets, or otherwise long standing players would and do have.
I am just recanting my thoughts out loud I guess and have just started to wander off thinking to myself "Where and what are we doing in this game" these moments happen and anywho...yes ofcourse they are going to nerf everything to ***, its what they do...look at the history of everything, buff, nerf, buff, nerf, buff, nerf...its kind of a repetitive nature for this game and usually for the same stuff that ping pongs.....mag buff, stam buff, set buff, set nerf...usually the same sets/skills, race changes and otherwise back and forth because 1 player doesnt like dying or another thinks that if they "fix" this skill then the rest of the world will be ok. I will tell you from actual experience, if you have enough money they will listen to about whatever you have to say to them, and that is the hard facts that are making it a dismal experience.4 -
Tanis-Stormbinder✭✭✭✭✭We all seen the nerf to damage coming but the 30 second refresh is way out of reason.Edited by Tanis-Stormbinder on July 14, 2020 8:27PM4
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Sargesgaming✭✭✭Sorry for my rant, just random varying thought jumbled together, forgive me lol I was just reading this while thinking and just started to type and it doesnt necessarily make any sense I guess but I felt like getting it out...0
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Agenericname✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Thechuckage wrote: »To anyone who has been playing for a decent amount of time, how did you NOT see this coming? This happens all the time and could be seen 500 nautical miles out, painted day-glo orange.
And yes it does suck for those who put the time in to farm them. I once again feel vindicated in not buying greymor.
Last point for all those who feel your time has been devalued (laughs in vet maelstrom) - look back on the maelstrom weapons threads. Many people called it the canary in the coalmine. Didn't take too long to be proven right.
Yes that point was made a few times when the vMA/nMA changes were announced.
I suppose we will see what happens between week 1 of the PTS and when the changes hit live.1 -
DigitalHype✭✭✭✭Kittytravel wrote: »The 30 second duration is only bad because it requires landing a KB. If the KB requirement was removed and instead became "On assist" then this would still be a viable piece but as it stands now it just ramps up too slowly and falls off too quickly to be of use because it's hard to guarantee those KBs.
The rest of the changes I think are wholeheartedly justified and are healthy changes; the addition of any duration is just way over the top.
If you don't have enough trash mobs and there is too much time between fights it becomes a significant liability when you lose your sloads. They might be too much of a gamble to equip now.1 -
Thechuckage✭✭✭✭✭@Sargesgaming I think you hit the tone at least. And I feel that anchor eroding for me. Have I invested a (unhealthy) large amount of time into the game...perhaps. But with a lot of these changes and overall state of the game, investment is shrinking.
At the end of the day, each player has to do right by themselves, BUT that should be done with your eyes wide open.
Most disappointing of all for the patch notes - nothing about that godawful Maw of the Infernal......2 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Thechuckage wrote: »To anyone who has been playing for a decent amount of time, how did you NOT see this coming? This happens all the time and could be seen 500 nautical miles out, painted day-glo orange.
And yes it does suck for those who put the time in to farm them. I once again feel vindicated in not buying greymor.
Last point for all those who feel your time has been devalued (laughs in vet maelstrom) - look back on the maelstrom weapons threads. Many people called it the canary in the coalmine. Didn't take too long to be proven right.
I don't think people are really upset with a nerf of the set. It was over-performing in situations and could have used a slight toning down. But what they did to it was to make it a pretty much wasted set piece outside of Maelstrom and maybe for only trash in 4-man dungeon fights.
There are so many dialogue pauses in 4-man dungeons that your stacks are going to be gone by the time the fight happens and you will barely have any stacks by the time the fight is over, if it is a trash mob, and you will have no stacks at all during the majority of boss fights in the game, because they do not have ads.
Not to mention, the need for killing blow, and competing against 11 other players in a trial, plus the wait time for some fights to start, makes it useless in that environment as well. I ran stranglers through Kyne's with a a group the other day, had like 10 stacks by the time we reached the boss. Hardly useful on live in that situation, won't even be worth holding in an inventory slot with the proposed PTS changes.
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Grianasteri✭✭✭✭✭
✭3k spell damage was way too much. So please stop all the complains only because the P2W gets canceled.
Have you ever really tried it? Maybe without PC cheating add-ons? On console it is very hard to handle and only the best of the best might be able to use it. I cannot see why this should be p2w.
I can see how it appears that way. But my guild has used it to tremendous effect. Clearly the average punter that stands in stupid or spams shields, or doesn't know mechs, is going to struggle and I think that is fine, its a high skill cap set.
We ran umpteen vet dungeons, some of them on HM, and EVERYTHING MELTED in seconds, including the bosses. x2 dps with specific Thrassian/weapon damage builds. We ran this with combinations that had a decent tank that could keep up taunts, and sometimes we tried with a healer or a 3rd dps depending on the content.
What I would say, is that in the hands of a good dps, say doing over 50k dps, Thrassian is just utterly OP. But in the hands of your average dps, say 15 - 25k dps, then yeah, its not going to be viable or worthwhile. In this respect, its kinda made good players better but probably does nothing much for your average punter.0 -
DigitalHype✭✭✭✭30 second cooldown on all stacks is ridiculous. it nI mean, you can still use it for 4-people stuff, for solo, and for trial trash packs, just not single target fights. I was looking forward to a set that would be the stam equivalent of thrassian, and instead they added weapon damage to thrassian itself but then nerfed it... classic ZOS.
In 4-person dungeon, how often are we stuck in combat because of some add 2 miles back stuck in a wall or other client/server nonsense. We're not going to be able to unequip the damn thing, the 30sec elapses, your sload stack gets wiped, and then someone pull the boss before you can swap gear. Now you're wearing a bad cosmetic piece.
It's not going to be worth the risk to have these things on anymore. This 30s expire timer goes way too far.1
