Advice on creating a tank

Llidoryc · July 2020

So I've never been a tank before in ESO, or any MMO for that matter (except Eve online but I won't get into that) and was looking for insight on how to not only be an effective tank but things that nobody tells you about being a tank in this game?

Twenty0zTsunami · July 2020

Llidoryc wrote: »

So I've never been a tank before in ESO, or any MMO for that matter (except Eve online but I won't get into that) and was looking for insight on how to not only be an effective tank but things that nobody tells you about being a tank in this game?

Trick to being a tank is as simple as having a lot of HP, AC, and other Dmg Mitigation, then getting everything to focus you by being first to engage and utilizing your taunts and area damage abilities, while strategically using defensive cooldowns.

FierceSam · July 2020

Good choice. Tanking in ESO can be super rewarding and fun.

Check out NefasQS and Woeler on YouTube, they have great intro tank videos

Some of Alcast and Xynode’s builds are good to start with.

Find a guild that does PvE stuff and training, there are lots and they will welcome potential tanks with open arms. Guild Finder should be helpful.

Be aware that levelling a tank will be a challenge as most levelling is done by killing stuff and that’s not a tank’s strong suit. You will probably need to have both a tank and a questing/damage dealing build for your character. Add ons like Alpha Gear or Dressing Room will help.

Good luck and have fun

newtinmpls · July 2020

Hi @Llidoryc

I can tell you about my tanking experience, mostly overland/Undaunted and I am NOT BIS or anything like that. But if you are new, then this will probably be okay as starting info.

1-Taunt the big boss
Now once you have this down, work on some refinements.
-Turn the boss away from the other players (get into the habit of doing this RIGHT AWAY - like "taunt and turn" needs to be stuck together in your brain).
-Look at his "tells" (some are body language, some are little visual cues like radiating lines) and interrupt him.

2-Stay alive while taunting
This sounds basic, but consider that in most Undaunted Delves, most players need about 18k of health (including food buffs) to stay alive most of the time. The tank really will do best with at least 30k of health, and ideally resistances (to spell and damage) as close to the 32k cap as you can get.
Yes, the healer (if it's a good one) will be focused on the tank, but you need to make it easy for the healer to do their job.
Consider the "Blood Altar" (as tank you have the most health to cast it with) which will lifesteal on enemies and will help keep everyone alive (more important in way low groups as the DPS may be low and the fights may be trickier).

For taunting, you have three basic choices.
-The sword & board taunt (which nicely has a charge/gap closer as the second skill in that line), and also places a debuff on the boss.
-Second is the Undaunted distance taunt (which starts as magicka, but eventually has a stamina morph) which can be synergized by another in the party.
-Third is the Ice staff heavy attack taunt, looks like you need the Destro staff passive (rank 5 of that skill) but the taunt costs nothing to use. Also grants a tiny damage shield, but so minimal that I suspect no on actually notices is in play.

2-Gather the adds so the DPS's can mow them down.
Two parts to this

First get their attention OR to put it another way: GET THERE FIRST

-The tank should be the first one to throw out any aggro, so if you are tanking for pugs, keep moving - lead or lose. No, if the DPSs run ahead like crazy people and get mowed down, yes it's totally their fault, but basically get there first.

-Start with an area effect damage to get the crowds attention (lots of choice there - volley and it's morphs from the bow line are good here)

-Then lockdown (or at least drastically slow) the baddies - lots of choices.
1-Talons if you are a DK,
2-Encase and it's morphs on a Sorc,
3-Warden has Impaling shards and especially it's gripping morph.
4-Undaunted has Trapping webs (not great as it slows, but doesn't stop them);
5-and oddly Necromancers Bone Totem (and morphs) do a slightly delayed fear that stuns people in place.
6-Psijic Order has Time Stop; again slightly delayed, but nice big area.
7-For that matter, the Spawn of Mephala monster helm set procs to create a web that slows nearby targets by 50% (also some poison).

Pull in the stragglers (so the DPSs can mow them down)
1-DK has chains
2-Fighters Guild has Silver leash (a morph of silver bolts); anyone can use this
3-Swarm Mother monster set lets you use block to web and pull in anyone doing a distance attack. If you use this it helps to be pretty good with the undaunted distance taunt; you also have to get the blocking pretty well timed.
4-Wardens have Frozen gate and it's morphs (I have never actually used this one, so no idea how well it works in practice).

A lot of pug tanks forget the pulls - this is a mistake as good pulls mean that the DPSs can concentrate on overlapping area effects and melting the baddies faster.

Later/Fancier stuff:
Buff the party - lots of ways to do this, but the basic two are:
1-Ebon armor (found in Crypt of Hearts) The 5-peice bonus is: Increases your Max Health by 1000 for you and up to 11 other group members within 28 meters of you. This is HUGE, especially for pug groups with silly DPSs who are too squishy to survive.
2-War Horn (Assault skill line from Cyrodiil) Sound a war horn to rally your forces, increasing you and your group members' Max Magicka, Health, and Stamina by 10% for 30 seconds. Keeps the team alive, and indirectly boosts damage. Also lasts a good long time.

Also do some searches for "tanking" and even "fake tanks" on this forum to find out what works (and what drives other team members crazy)

Good luck!

CMDR_Un1k0rn · July 2020

In addition to above, be sure to morph War Horn to the Aggressive morph, as that will increase the group's critical damage for a while.

Katahdin · July 2020

Most people level an intended tank as a DPS because its easier to level that way.

CMDR_Un1k0rn · July 2020

Katahdin wrote: »

Most people level an intended tank as a DPS because its easier to level that way.

I'm always going to disagree with this one myself.

Set of crafted stam dd gear will get your overland stuff sorted easy. Switch to tank for group content.

amm7sb14_ESO · July 2020

Tanking is my favorite role. Some advice from me that I think will lead you to success:

1. Priority #1: HOLD AGGRO. You have 3 ways to taunt - Pierce Armor, Inner Fire, and Ice Staff. Use those in your arsenal to keep the mobs and bosses aggro'd. There is no AOE taunt, so you will have to spam taunt in big fights.

2. Priority #2: Buff / debuff. You'll need to be buffing your group and debuffing your enemies. Major Breach / Fracture is going to be your main debuff. It comes with Pierce Armor (there are other ways to get it but that will be the most common one). Minor Maim is another common one that you'll be applying. You'll also need to buff your group as well. Damage shields, Minor Protection, resistances, etc.

3. Priority #3: Crowd Control. Lots of different ways to crowd control, but you'll want to lock the mobs in a centralized area so the DD's can drop their AOE's and DOT's and get everyone at once.

4. Priority #4 that's probably even more important than Priority #1: LEARN THE MECHS. Take a group of guildies or friends who you know will be patient with you while you learn the ropes, and practice the mechs. Understanding dungeon and trial mechanics is the single #1 biggest factor towards success in a run. You can have the highest health pool, the highest resistances, and all the aggro hold and debuffs possible, and still wipe if you don't understand mechanics. On the flip side, a strong understanding of mechanics can carry you if you have less than standard health or resistances as well.

5. Suggestions: 40k+ health, 30k+ resistances (cap for PVE is 32.5k, but getting that high is not necessary). Play around with different sets and find what works for you. I am a big advocate of building "off-meta" and coming up with your own personalized build, and I know from experience that a meta build is NOT necessary for even vet DLC content. However, your build still needs to be built intentionally. And as a tank, your intention is to hold aggro, sustain through damage, and support your party through buffs, debuffs, and CC's.

OrionPriest · July 2020

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

Most people level an intended tank as a DPS because its easier to level that way.

I'm always going to disagree with this one myself.

Set of crafted stam dd gear will get your overland stuff sorted easy. Switch to tank for group content.

Agree, leveling a tank is a study in a dual personality. Just hit CP 160 with mine. Have 2 sets of gear one for tanking, one for questing/solo leveling, pick a second weapon skill (DW or 2H) to help your DPS and go to town. It's more fun, less of a grind, lets you level your gear more appropriately, get you extra skill points etc.

CMDR_Un1k0rn · July 2020

OrionPriest wrote: »

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

Most people level an intended tank as a DPS because its easier to level that way.

I'm always going to disagree with this one myself.

Set of crafted stam dd gear will get your overland stuff sorted easy. Switch to tank for group content.

Agree, leveling a tank is a study in a dual personality. Just hit CP 160 with mine. Have 2 sets of gear one for tanking, one for questing/solo leveling, pick a second weapon skill (DW or 2H) to help your DPS and go to town. It's more fun, less of a grind, lets you level your gear more appropriately, get you extra skill points etc.

Go 2H. You can actually use that for an AoE enchantment effect.

OrionPriest · July 2020

Go 2H. You can actually use that for an AoE enchantment effect.

Which effect is that? Still new to figuring this game out. I got my 2H to 50 then decided to give DW a try. In PVE DW seems to kill things faster then 2H....

Grandchamp1989 · July 2020

30 / 30 rule is good for beginner tanks.

Minimum 30k health and 30k resistances, aim for that.

Basic tanks taunt the boss and hold block

Decent tanks also use CC and create proper trash pools and debuff the enemy (crusher / fracture / breach)

Good tanks Taunt, knows mechs, use CC, create trash pools and help healing the team while staying alive themselves

Awesome tanks do everything except for for damage which include buffing your team and help sustain at the expense of some of their own survivability on the hardest content, but at that point they've ascended into Nefas territory and will survive regardless. These are the fellas the top guilds fight over and most will probably not reach this level lol.

amm7sb14_ESO · July 2020

OrionPriest wrote: »

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

Most people level an intended tank as a DPS because its easier to level that way.

I'm always going to disagree with this one myself.

Set of crafted stam dd gear will get your overland stuff sorted easy. Switch to tank for group content.

Agree, leveling a tank is a study in a dual personality. Just hit CP 160 with mine. Have 2 sets of gear one for tanking, one for questing/solo leveling, pick a second weapon skill (DW or 2H) to help your DPS and go to town. It's more fun, less of a grind, lets you level your gear more appropriately, get you extra skill points etc.

I agree with this.

I've actually gotten my main tank up to about 3k spell damage (on the character sheet) with a parse of around 10k, all while maintaining 40k health and nearly max resist.

I mostly use it for solo, but have run with that setup in some trial runs where I'm an off-tank as well and can offer supplemental dps (like in vet AA when the ghost splits).

It's been a fun build, but when I have to main or solo tank, I drop some of my damage abilities to focus on tank jobs.

But as a necro where many of my debuffs and sustains also double as DOT's, it has come in helpful

CMDR_Un1k0rn · July 2020

OrionPriest wrote: »

Go 2H. You can actually use that for an AoE enchantment effect.

Which effect is that? Still new to figuring this game out. I got my 2H to 50 then decided to give DW a try. In PVE DW seems to kill things faster then 2H....

https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/stampede

amm7sb14_ESO · July 2020

I want to add on to my first comment as well, some suggestions for sets that are beneficial to tanks, and are all sets that I have used on mine:

-Ebon: A great starting tank set, gives you a huge addition to your health pool, and an extra 1k to everyone in your party

-Akaviri Dragonguard (Currently using): The 5 piece gives a 15% cost decrease to ultimates, meaning some of your support ults like War Horn or Barrier will cost less.

-Leeching Plate (Currently using): Hurts mobs that deal damage to you, and heals you for the amount of damage done. When used correctly, you can gain more healing than damage, and make yourself virtually unkillable.

-Imperium (Currently using): Gives yourself and nearby allies a 12k-ish damage shield when you take damage

-Claw of Yolnakhriin: Gives weapon and spell damage to your entire party

-Lord Warden (monster set, currently using): Gives additional resistances to yourself and nearby allies when you take damage

-Grave Guardian: Gives additional resistances to yourself and nearby allies when you block

BejaProphet · July 2020

@Llidoryc I wrote a very crazy long guide to dungeonntanking on these forums. It was written pre Summerset, so a lot of the sample numbers will be dated. But I stand behind the principles taught to this day. If you are looking for “the things nobody tells you” you might find it worth your while. Link is in my signature.

newtinmpls · July 2020

Katahdin wrote: »

Most people level an intended tank as a DPS because its easier to level that way.

I disagree with this; and partly because there are so many "fake tanks" during the leveling process. It was playing around at low levels that got me more able to use leash/pulls effectively.

The other thing is that the "viewpoint" from the tank is different to what you look for/at as a DPS. Same for healer. Level what you want to do (or have multiple builds/setups in mind as you increase).

newtinmpls · July 2020

@BejaProphet I'm working my way through your incredible discussion of tankiness - Wow and thanks are the first two things I must say to you (and I just e-mailed the link to that thread to the group I play with).

I dub thee "Mother of Tanks"

BejaProphet · July 2020

newtinmpls wrote: »

@BejaProphet I'm working my way through your incredible discussion of tankiness - Wow and thanks are the first two things I must say to you (and I just e-mailed the link to that thread to the group I play with).

I dub thee "Mother of Tanks"

Thanks. I hope it helps!

FrancisCrawford · July 2020

In this game:

A lot of damage gets done by ground-based AoE attacks. Therefore, you want to hold bosses still in most cases. I know of very few fights were kiting is a preferred strategy.
However, a number of bosses frequently escape taunt and target a random party member. That's just part of the mechanics. The final boss of Banished Cells 1 could be the earliest example you encounter.
A few bosses are utterly untauntable.
A large fraction of bosses have conal AoE attacks that make you want to keep them turned away from the group.
Tanks have a strong buff/debuff role, especially the "debuff" part of that. But taunting and your own survival of course take precedence, and so in most cases does positioning as well.

newtinmpls · July 2020

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

In this game:
A lot of damage gets done by ground-based AoE attacks. Therefore, you want to hold bosses still in most cases. I know of very few fights were kiting is a preferred strategy.

I'm curious - which fights do you want to move enemies?

josiahva · July 2020

newtinmpls wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

In this game:
A lot of damage gets done by ground-based AoE attacks. Therefore, you want to hold bosses still in most cases. I know of very few fights were kiting is a preferred strategy.

I'm curious - which fights do you want to move enemies?

The flame atro ads on the Daedric Titan boss in vCoA II, the Lurchers in vLoM, the Planar Inhibitor in vWGT, and last boss of vMoL come to mind...not that its a preferred strategy per se...but it is the only one that allows you to survive, though I guess its technically ads for CoA and LoM. He should revise the statement to say there are a few bosses that you MUST move around.

Spartabunny08 · July 2020

FierceSam wrote: »

Good choice. Tanking in ESO can be super rewarding and fun.

Check out NefasQS and Woeler on YouTube, they have great intro tank videos

Some of Alcast and Xynode’s builds are good to start with.

Find a guild that does PvE stuff and training, there are lots and they will welcome potential tanks with open arms. Guild Finder should be helpful.

Be aware that levelling a tank will be a challenge as most levelling is done by killing stuff and that’s not a tank’s strong suit. You will probably need to have both a tank and a questing/damage dealing build for your character. Add ons like Alpha Gear or Dressing Room will help.

Good luck and have fun

woeler is the reason we don't have permablock tanks anymore not to mention him and the dev team couldn't even complete the new dungeon they were showing off. Not a good source. Not very familiar with Nefas.

newtinmpls · July 2020

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

In this game:
A lot of damage gets done by ground-based AoE attacks. Therefore, you want to hold bosses still in most cases. I know of very few fights were kiting is a preferred strategy.

newtinmpls wrote: »

I'm curious - which fights do you want to move enemies?

josiahva wrote: »

The flame atro ads on the Daedric Titan boss in vCoA II,
the Lurchers in vLoM,
the Planar Inhibitor in vWGT,
and last boss of vMoL come to mind.

Let's see....Now here is where I freely admit that I don't do all the Undaunteds, and certainly not all the Vet ones with the group I hang out with.

Anyone willing to speak to any of these mechanics? Yes, before you mention it, I'm already in process of looking up Youtube videos, but this is new to me and I can tell I"m not entirely able to absorb all the info.