Because waiting 15-30 minutes for a dps queue to pop is ridiculous

mobicera wrote: »

I don't really understand why some people wont accept that you really don't need a healer in vet dlc dungeons, the real threats typically are the one shot mechanics, which a healer will not save you anyways.
The rest is easily healed through with a single self heal slotted on the dps and the tank drops altar. Its everything you need.
The arguments that's it only the top 1% is laughable.
I am not op not even close, no where near the top 1%.
I have tanked every single vet dlc hm and vbrp included without a healer.
There are only 2 I feel a hybrid healer/dps might be better.
This is icereach hm and moongrave fane hm.
Its not just the top 1% its probably more like the top 25% but you don't often find this in group finder, for the simple fact we don't use it.

I think you overestimate the general level of an ESO player. A while ago, having cleared vMA was enough to be in the top 1%... This is probably not true anymore, but this was a good indication.

Otherwise I agree, everything is easier with more dps unless there are specific mechanics that require a healer. In my guild, the healer plays DD most of the time, and adds some healing/support when it's needed, still spamming impale during execute.

But the thread is about PUGs, not good organized group. You can't expect all your DDs or Tanks to be self-sufficient.

I don't agree with fake roles, but I completely understand why people do it.

I tank. I don't have a good enough grasp on weaving and rotations to make for a good DPS, and I prefer using a sword and board and staying in the boss' face anyway. Sure I still need practice - I only started playing ESO (my first MMO) a year ago, and I wasn't even looking at group content until about 4 months ago or so, but I've really come to like it.

I've PUGged dungeons where everyone played their roles perfectly and it was a breeze. I've PUGged dungeons where one of the DPS would get angry that I couldn't hold a boss and all of the adds since my resources were out from blocking so much and I was doing a decent amount of the group damage. I've done groups where the 'healer' was a DPS and told us at the beginning and we breezed through no problem with the extra damage. I've been in groups where the 'healer' was a DPS and didn't tell us but just left us all behind and ran off, pulling every mob to the boss and wiping the group. I take it a luck of the draw.

To be honest, I don't use the Group Finder for randoms. I will not run a dungeon if I don't know it, since I know most of my job is to know the mechanics and be the first one into the room (some mag DPS may want to remember that not all of us can sprint through the dungeon if you want your tank to be able to block or taunt with stam abilities. Or have your stam DPS be able to function at all). I do PUG the base game pledges if I feel comfortable with them. It's also a surprise what I get - the FGII pledge yesterday went pretty slowly due to low DPS but we made it through, but then I did CoHII with three DPS and we went through so fast and I ended up getting the nodeath achievement. DLCs though...I've done some normal PUGs, but those have normally been really judgemental so I tend to stick with my guild unless it's something I know inside and out like ICP.

I get people want shorter queues. If a healer (or tank, but as a tank mysself I don't have to deal with fake ones) is really a DPS and they're good, but they announce it at the beginning and go with the rest of the team, it's fine. What I don't like is the yolo ones who leave the team in the dust, pull everything, and then start to solo the bosses with no regard to anyone else in the group. Some of the other people in the group may still be learning, and that's not cool to just ditch them and let them die to the mobs you pulled. Or if someone queues as a fake role, but then can't pull a decent DPS in that slot, it's almost like we've lost our support and didn't even get the extra damage to counter it.

What I'd like is a training area for support roles. DPS have training dummies to practice parsing and rotations, but we'd need something like a dummy that constantly loses HP for a healer to practice, or a room with loads of weak dummies for tanks to practice stacking and CC. I'd really love to see solo practice dungeons (no rewards, just see the story and practice mechanics) so we don't have to drag our guildies through the same dungeon millions of times to practice on one of the bosses... and also just because I'd like the time to savor the stories if they're connected to the year-long saga anyway.

Llidoryc wrote: »

So I've noticed this happens quite frequently. Non-healers that queue up in the healer slot in dungeon finder. What is the benefit of this? because there are dungeons that if you don't have a quality healer, there it is no way you're going to complete the activity.

There is a lot of false queuing, or simply unprepared queuing.

I converted one of my characters to a healer this weekend. While running random's to level skills, I ended up in various different groups. Most of which were sub-50 characters.

When I was in a group which was obviously not queued correctly, or underpowered for the dungeon, I simply left. If I got a 10-15 wait before my next queue, I'd just do something else in the meantime. After all, there is plenty to do in the game.

svendf wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

It happens with tanks as well, which is, arguably, even worse. The "benefit" is very one-sided, since it pretty much only benefits the people queueing for the wrong role, because the queueing time is much, much shorter for tanks and healers. For tanks it's sometimes almost instant, as opposed to waiting for what can sometimes be more than an hour as a DD.
Some people will argue that they can complete content faster with fake tanks/healers, who act as additional DDs instead, but I think it's just bad behaviour. They do it to skip the waiting time, that's it. If they want to go as fast as possible with 3 or 4 dps, they should go with a pre-made instead of a PUG. And when it comes to vet content, that's when there's definitely no place for fakes anymore.

Personally, whenever I encounter a fake tank in a PUG, I vote to kick them (which is not something I am quick to do otherwise), preferably just before the last boss. I just really don't like the attitude that drives these guys/gals.

The difference is fake healers arent queuing to dodge queue times. They are queuing as healer because healers are generally not needed.

Some are very desperate to tell other´s what´s neeeded or not in content. Healer´s are needed all over in dungeon content see it everyday - So! It´s a false statement driven by an agenda to keep roles to a minimum because of dps issus

Some gentle advise. Run your own group´s if you want a tank or healer free game

I tend to agree with u. I was livid every time GF gave me a fake tank. But I cant deny the advantages to clear those old, boring, mechanicless dungeons really fast. Its an exercise in futility trying to finish in a timely manner a dungeon with a turtle tank and two sub 10k dps DD.

What about tankers that do not taunt or do not have a clue on how to tank?

At least I expect that a tank has a shield and a one hand weapon!

@Feric51 You had a heal slotted, that means you weren't a fake healer, being a "fake" and not being optimized are two completely different things, the "fakes" that bother people are those that don't even bother to slot a heal and then run ahead and basically make a mess of the run.

Even if the group doesn't need a healer, that's still no excuse to fake your role as a healer.

A lot of groups don't need two dps either. Does that mean it's ok for people to sign on as fake dps and then heal or tank in that role instead?

So people need to stop trying to justify this ____ practice.

If you want to create a non-traditional set up because you believe they are more effective, then just make your own group. But don't sign up for a role you're not prepared to play.

Just left a dungeon where someone did this. I'm a competent DPS and happened to be on my (rarely used) mag sorc with the healing matriach. The templar that slotted as a healer did no healing. None. Did not announce they were not a healer or that they would not be healing. Just when on their merry dpsing way. I did my share of the damage and kept everyone alive. It wasn't a problem from a group perspective.

The problem is when you slot as a healer with no intention of healing. I called the player out at the end in group chat about this. Their response, "BOO HOO." Should I report them? Tempted.

Even though I can handle myself well in this game, I have a real problem with a lack of manners, civility and respect. Communities can only survive where that is the case - I don't need to reference other MMOs for examples of where that has gone wrong. If you can heal while dpsing that's fine, good even, but HEAL if you slot in that role.

An "all I do is spam random heals" player isn't needed in any content tbh. And I'd much prefer a "fake" healer that's mostly doing damage than one of those when I'm pugging as a tank since it'll usually make clearing this 6 year old vet content that much faster. Also to all the actual healers that notice the group is pulling like 5k group dps and swap out a couple skills so we can basically duo these vet hm pledges without taking 10 hours...

Contaminate wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

mazeikeen wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

The amount of players who can form a a group who all parses 90k and can burn a dungeon, and know the mechs like the back of their hand, is 1/10000

You don't even need stupidly high DPS, or perfect execution of mechanics. You just need a good tank and DD who stay out of the red and can at least do the mechanics properly.

Would you mind showing me?

Lets que op for Vet Moonhunter Keep hardmode or Icereach Hardmode. I'll take the spot of healer and not heal.

As the guy said:
"also often dont need a healer unless you have a very inexperienced player in the group, and at that point you can just 3 man it."

I'll be the inexperienced guy here please show me how you do it I'm legitemately interested in it.

People talk like they're the top 1% and it is so easy.

Just strap on vigor 2dds and we roll the dungeon hardmode.

Let me know when I can see it I'm available on both US and EU server.

I’m in a guild that does basically nothing but dungeon achievements. Typically they’ll ask for a flex of a dps or a healer (sometimes they only ask for another dps), simply because the run goes smoother when you quickly kill the things creating ambient damage, than they do if you have someone dedicated to healing yeh ambient damage.

For example the last handful of vMHK trifectas the guild has done was with 3 dps and leech tanks, if you follow the mechanics, there’s very little in there that’s deadly.

vIR is actually one of the best places to sub out a healer for another dps. The tank can run Barrier for the few execute phases but other than that there’s not much ambient damage in that dungeon.

In vSCP trifecta they also usually ask for a third dps, because most things in there are one shots and even as a healer in there I spend most of my time doing a damage rotation on the boss.

These players aren’t really the vTrial pushers, dungeons are their niche. Some of them don’t even consider themselves particularly hardcore. We’ve got a few cp400s doing these things, and we’ve got people still learning their roles doing these achievements.

The fact is, if all you’re doing in a dungeon is healing, the group would be better off with another dps. When your able to follow mechanics well, when you know the fights so well it’s become almost second nature, then you rarely have need for a dedicated healer. As a healer I contribute 12-15k dps in any given fight, keep sustain tools active, always stay on interrupt duty, keep PotL debuffs up, and have combat prayer active at all times. In that way I’ve got my usual groups who’ll bring me in for an extra safe run, in no deaths and some trifecta.

A healer is necessary to cheese the gargoyle boss in vMGF, is necessary to turn CoA2 into a fight where we can stand anywhere, is necessary to let us ignore mechanics that let the dps have a stand-and-burn fight.

But for dungeons where we must follow mechanics, where it’s mostly one shots, I’m not necessary for healing, but for buffing and debuffing and handling mechanics while dealing sole damage of my own. That’s the life of a dungeon healer in ESO.

Hi mate

I very much agree.

For premades sometimes 3dd is the prefered standard.

I run with a group for vet DLC achievement. It isn't a matter of "if" we'll clear the content but instead how fast.

That being said when I run VetDLC in PUG my succes rate is around 30%

People don't know mechs
people mess up
low damage
tank struggle

My Pug groups can not afford to run without a healer in VetDLC. That's not even taking HM into account.

It is my firm belief that PUG groups who have never played together, barely know mechs and doesn't know their role very will struggle too much without a healer to cleare it 999:10000 tries.