My thoughts on ESO

Medivh50 · July 2020

**Disclaimer**
I will be more or less comparing ESO to WoW because it was the 1st MMO I played and it is and for the foreseeable future will be the industry standard of MMOs.

For me, I want ESO to be my favorite MMO and its almost there. I am a big D&D fan and fantasy nerd. ESO really scratches that itch in a video game form. Along with games like Skyrim. I love the lore, most of the mechanics in the game, and the character customization. Believe it or not, I like the PvP. Yes, even the big zerg battles. Battlegrounds are fun for that small intimate setting PvP. It is practically the "perfect game." I understand that is a personally opinion and not everyone will share my view point on ESO.
I believe that ESO could and should rival the big bad boy WoW. The lore is away easier to understand, game mechanics (overall) are improve, voice acting NPC rather than read text, and character customization just to name a few improvements. Oh yea you can have add a surname to all your characters. But what really holds ESO back are the damn bugs.
The Devs seem to just want to release more and more content rather than fix bugs that have existed in the game since launch. For example, optimization of Cyrodiil (rubber banding characters, etc), or should I say the lack of. Games like GW2 with big zerg battlegrounds seem to have a more stable platform. Why can't ZMax do that for ESO? Animation issues and abilities failing to go off in their new class the Necromancer. Also not being able to mount when you are out of combat. These issues and more still plague the game badly. Honestly go over to the Technical Support pages on the forums and pick a few.
Also they screwed a lot of people over when they took the easy way out and not letting groups que for Battleground PvP. They could instilled a rank system, ladder system, etc. Honestly anything would have been better than just not letting groups que for BGs.
I am a firmly believe that the main reason WoW still reigns kings is because, yes the story and (for the most part) the mechanics are compelling, but also a big factor is how well the game runs. The game is supported well. Bugs are generally acknowledged and looked at. It also has a really good report/ticket system. At least the few times that I have used it, it has been a pleasurable experience.
I would like to see ZMax push back a release of a new purchasable DLC 6 mouths to a year to release bug and optimization patches. Fix the game we got instead of continually adding to it and not addressing issues. There are probably 100,000s if not millions of gamers that have left ESO because of these bugs, and would come back gladly if they were fixed.
What do you guys think? Why don't the Devs fix/optimize their game more? Thank you for reading.

_adhyffbjjjf12 · July 2020

ESO is hands down the best MMORPG (ahead of GW2 then WOW imo)... BUT the game has arguably the worst performance and bugs level of ANY AAA Game since the spectrum 48K days which lowers that assessment and that includes single player games lol, its a mess and reeks of poor design and coding standards/encapsulation. I honestly cant think of anything worse. If they fixed performance it would be amazing.

As for WOW the only reason it survives is that there is a huge players base that has 10+ years of history soaked into the game which they don't want to throw away and everyone is on the power race treadmill/addiction cycle.

Acid test: Imagine WOW, GW2 and ESO wiped all characters and currencies and achievements and restarted on the same day. Now you have an even playing field and WOW would look like an awful proposition.

amm7sb14_ESO · July 2020

I can't compare the game to WOW, simply because I never really played that game, and what little I did dabble with, I didn't enjoy it (tho admittedly I don't think I even got past level 10. If I got deeper into the game, my opinion could change)

I do think the comparison is interesting tho, because I'd actually compare ESO to another Blizzard game: Diablo 3

The similarities to D3 are striking. Dungeons / trials are basically identical to rifts / greater rifts, right down to all the worthless gear you loot solely to decon for mats that you can use to improve future gear.

The way sets work is very similar.

The Necromancer class is nearly identical. Scythe, Skeletal Arcanist, and even exploding corpses.

ESO even has the Trove Scamps which are literally the same thing as the Treasure Imps or whatever they are called in D3.

The games are so similar, that I feel like with ESO I'm just playing a more expansive version of Diablo in an Elder Scrolls skin.

And none of those things are derogatory, as I like D3 quite a bit. For different reasons than I like TES games, just as I like ESO for different reasons than I like TES games.

I like the main TES games for the immersion of existing in a living world, with a character that I can fully personality to my image, concept, playstyle, and preferences with no restrictions that hold me back.

Obviously I can't get that in D3, and I can't get that in ESO either. While it does have some cool opportunities for personalization, ultimately, if you want to progress through the game's content, you have to build your character towards an "optimized" setup at the cost of roleplay, conceptualization, and individuality. I can't stand it when I read people talk about what a player *should* be wearing. I.E. "stamcro wears xyz, magden wears xyz, healer runs abc skill", etc. It's *my* character, I will run what I want. If you want to tell me what to run, then you can pay for my ESO+ sub and play the character yourself.

On the flip side, ESO offers me an experience I can't get in a TES game, which one of those is the ability to collect pretty cool and important gear. In TES, outside of maybe some Daedric artifacts, the gear isn't all that important, especially in say, Skyrim, where you can make any type of armor top end through Smithing and perks.

You talked a lot about performance. Again, can't compare it to WOW, didn't play enough to form an opinion on performance. But I have played other MMO's, and ESO is definitely its share of buggy. I don't want to say it's the buggiest MMO I've ever played (Star Wars: Galaxies), but it's definitely up there. With some basic stuff too, like the weapon under your feet (seems to happen less), skills that don't fire off, inability to interact with world objects, dungeon boss mechs that don't work, etc.

Server stability has been mostly good for me. I rarely get booted off, and lag for the most part seems reasonable, tho it does hit hard on occasion.

I think that ESO does a great job with TES lore, and explores a lot of aspects that even the single player TES games don't touch on.

I don't think that ESO does a great job with maintaining TES' trademark character build individualization, as the game ends up railroading you into specific builds if you want to engage in deeper content.

I think that even though I don't like the concept of the character build design, it does a solid job within that design. I just think it's the wrong design for a TES game.

I often see the argument "well it's an MMO, not a single player game", which is true, but considering that I have played MMO's that are closer to a TES character build design than ESO, I don't fully buy that argument.

At the end of the day, I would probably rank ESO as a top 3 all time MMO for me, which is both a testament to how good I think it is (I enjoy the expansive content, from questing, solo-overland content, group dungeons and trials, various styles of PVP) and how disappointed I was with it (Elder Scrolls is my favorite all time game franchise, and I don't think a game called Elder Scrolls Online lived up to the full potential of what it could have been). Most of that comes down to certain creative design choices that I feel run counter to elements that are definitive of an Elder Scrolls game.

That said, I've been here off and on since beta, across various consoles (PC and X-Box), and am undoubtedly into the game more now than I ever have been.

My top MMO's:

1. Star Wars Galaxies (basically nailed everything that I am looking for from an MMO experience, until they killed it with CU and NGE)
2. EverQuest (the first MMO I ever played, will always hold a special place in my heart)
3. Elder Scrolls Online
4. Warhammer Online
5. City Of Heroes

Nemesis7884 · July 2020

what is a bit weird to me - and I might be completely off on this, but to a large degree, eso seems to be quite a small operation? at least thats what im getting, that not that many people are working on it, which seems odd for the size of the game now?

Medivh50 · July 2020

I honestly agree with everything people have said about this game.

[quote="_adhyffbjjjf12;c-6855885"
Acid test: Imagine WOW, GW2 and ESO wiped all characters and currencies and achievements and restarted on the same day. Now you have an even playing field and WOW would look like an awful proposition. [/quote]

I am not sure that this is valid test. Only bc each of these titles were released during different years. At the time of WoW's release (04), their combat mechanics where still standard. I still hold that WoW is remaining king bc it is easy to get into (PC requirements, for the most part), vast storyline that does grow, now brand, and its well supported.

Imagine if ESO got the Dev support that WoW has. WOW!

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

what is a bit weird to me - and I might be completely off on this, but to a large degree, eso seems to be quite a small operation? at least thats what im getting, that not that many people are working on it, which seems odd for the size of the game now?

I am not sure on this. You could be totally right. What is without a fact, that ZMax has made a concious decission to use its reasources into making new content for the game, rather finding a balance to fix issues and creating new content. The stuff they put out is really good. But that is bc they throw sooo much money at it.

The only thing that do to support the game, it seems, is make sure people can get on the server. Other than that, nothing.

relentless_turnip · July 2020

Fully agree with this sentiment.

Would be the best MMO on the market if they fixed it. It has unfortunately had a reputation as a buggy game since launch.

I appreciate their attempts to show what they are doing for performance and the detailed statement they released today. They are constantly talking about ways to optimise the game and never mention what they are doing to fix the things they broke. Like the desyncs and delay they introduced with u25.

It feels like they are just burying these issues.
I am nearly certain at this point they moved more than block server side. Like player positioning etc... I think their plan now is to reduce server calculations everywhere else and not undo what they did.

Kaunas · July 2020

Your disclaimer already raised red flags.. wow is the industry standart?... seems like an overhyped, nostalgia driven, overmonitized mess.. lets be real wow isnt something to look at in ave.. much more better games with better quality - eso is one of them

Medivh50 · July 2020

Kaunas wrote: »

Your disclaimer already raised red flags.. wow is the industry standart?... seems like an overhyped, nostalgia driven, overmonitized mess.. lets be real wow isnt something to look at in ave.. much more better games with better quality - eso is one of them

The same thing could be said about your statement. But that is ok. Lets look at it this way. Who has the biggest staff working on their game? GW2, ESO, or WoW. Who has the most media coverage and hype when DLC are released (including YouTube coverage)? GW2, ESO, or WoW. Who has a convention that is the keystone title for said convention? Which is highly viewed and sells out with minutes of ticket release? GW2, ESO, WoW Finally who makes the most money off their subcritpions? GW2, ESO, WoW.

..<mic drop>

amm7sb14_ESO · July 2020

Kaunas wrote: »

Your disclaimer already raised red flags.. wow is the industry standart?... seems like an overhyped, nostalgia driven, overmonitized mess.. lets be real wow isnt something to look at in ave.. much more better games with better quality - eso is one of them

There might be games with higher quality, I agree (I've been on record as saying I hate WOW), but let's not act like WOW isn't basically the staple of successful MMO's and the definitive formula that virtually every mainstream MMO since - including ESO - has tried to emulate.

Medivh50 · July 2020

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Fully agree with this sentiment.

Would be the best MMO on the market if they fixed it. It has unfortunately had a reputation as a buggy game since launch.

I appreciate their attempts to show what they are doing for performance and the detailed statement they released today. They are constantly talking about ways to optimise the game and never mention what they are doing to fix the things they broke. Like the desyncs and delay they introduced with u25.

It feels like they are just burying these issues.
I am nearly certain at this point they moved more than block server side. Like player positioning etc... I think their plan now is to reduce server calculations everywhere else and not undo what they did.

Holy crap! I just read that announcement. I am very happy to see this from ZMax. Still a long way to go but at least they seem to be addressing it!

knightblaster · July 2020

Medivh50 wrote: »

Kaunas wrote: »

Your disclaimer already raised red flags.. wow is the industry standart?... seems like an overhyped, nostalgia driven, overmonitized mess.. lets be real wow isnt something to look at in ave.. much more better games with better quality - eso is one of them

The same thing could be said about your statement. But that is ok. Lets look at it this way. Who has the biggest staff working on their game? GW2, ESO, or WoW. Who has the most media coverage and hype when DLC are released (including YouTube coverage)? GW2, ESO, or WoW. Who has a convention that is the keystone title for said convention? Which is highly viewed and sells out with minutes of ticket release? GW2, ESO, WoW Finally who makes the most money off their subcritpions? GW2, ESO, WoW.

..<mic drop>

Thing is, this is hated by people who play other MMOs, so you won't get a lot of "WoW does things well" sentiment on the boards of any other MMO -- other MMOs have players who generally hate WoW.

Having said that, it's true that WoW is as big as it is because (1) sunk cost/switching cost -- people don't want to "start over in a new game" and "abandon" their large collection of mounts, transmogs, achievements, and friends in WoW; (2) familiarity -- people don't want to learn a new/different system; and (3) WoW has 16+ years of development, has the largest development team in the industry due to having made several billion USD in revenues over the years, and is, as a result, extremely polished.

It's true that WoW, if it were a new game in 2020, would not do well in competition with newer MMOs, but (1) WoW's combat and other design date back to 2004, so assuming a 2020 new release would have them is erroneous and therefore sets up a false comparison and (2) if WoW had not come along in 2004, the overall size of the MMO market would not have grown to the size that there were multiple AAA MMORPGs developed in the first place. Prior to WoW, the MMO market was a small niche and the games were not massively budgeted -- WoW changed that because it grew the market to be large and mainstream, rather than niche, and many developers (and the financing) followed into the market and developed games that, frankly, otherwise would either never have been made, or would have been made on a much smaller budget and would therefore not be the games they are today anyway. That's the problem with counterfactuals, you see -- you can't just "change one thing": once you change that one thing, other things change, too, and the overall result is often not what you'd expect, which is why they are typically misleading and say more about the bias of the person proposing the counterfactual than they do about anything else.

WoW does basically one thing better than any other MMO: group cooperative/competitive endgame challenging power progression content. Basically raids and mythic+ dungeons. WoW does this better than any other game does ,and the core playerbase in WoW likes this content, and therefore is hard to budge from WoW -- there is no other game that offers that content on the quality and quantity level that WoW does. So what happens when those core WoW players try other games is that they typically say "I liked GameX, but there wasn't an endgame like WoW", and they "go back to WoW" as we all like to say in derision. When you take that, together with the other issues I mention above (sunk/switching cost, familiarity and polish), you get WoW's current position. It isn't because WoW is a better MMO across the board than other games -- that simply isn't true objectively. But it does have one area where it excels ahead of every other MMO, and it also has the benefit of sunk cost, familiarity and polish that make it very hard to compete against for any newcomer game.

As to why ESO doesn't invest in the game like WoW? Simple answer. ESO has never made anything like the many billions of USD that WoW has in revenues. Blizzard has piles and piles of money due to the amount of money that WoW has made since 2004, and using even a fraction of that easily outspends what even a lavish spending by another gaming company would amount to (the only exception here is FFXIV, but in that case Squeenix sucked down heavy losses in order to support its flagship brand after the 2010 version of the game flopped ... no other MMO has ever been supported like that, but then again Squeenix also has really deep pockets due to the money that FF franchise has made over decades as well). WoW is just a damned hard game to compete with head to head, and will continue to be until it is shut down, especially now that the MMO market is shrinking (certainly the case compared with 10 years ago).

Tandor · July 2020

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

what is a bit weird to me - and I might be completely off on this, but to a large degree, eso seems to be quite a small operation? at least thats what im getting, that not that many people are working on it, which seems odd for the size of the game now?

Care to share the numbers with us, and your source?

[snip]

[Edited for Baiting]

Tandor · July 2020

_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »

ESO is hands down the best MMORPG (ahead of GW2 then WOW imo)... BUT the game has arguably the worst performance and bugs level of ANY AAA Game since the spectrum 48K days which lowers that assessment and that includes single player games lol, its a mess and reeks of poor design and coding standards/encapsulation. I honestly cant think of anything worse. If they fixed performance it would be amazing.

As for WOW the only reason it survives is that there is a huge players base that has 10+ years of history soaked into the game which they don't want to throw away and everyone is on the power race treadmill/addiction cycle.

Acid test: Imagine WOW, GW2 and ESO wiped all characters and currencies and achievements and restarted on the same day. Now you have an even playing field and WOW would look like an awful proposition.

There would be some overlap, for sure, but on the whole they would cater for different audiences as they do now and that would be reflected in them all enjoying continued success.

That is, of course, disregarding for these purposes the fact that many players would probably rather move on entirely if everything they'd done in the previous x years was gone in an instant and they had to start over. I'm probably different to most in that I'd rather enjoy starting over on all three games as in the case of any MMO it becomes totally fresh for me when I play, for example, on a different server or account.

As for the performance and bug issues often attributed to ESO, they seem to apply to or be a problem for certain types of player in relation to certain types of content. I'm increasingly convinced from what I see both in the game and on the forum that most players don't have such issues and are actually very happy with ESO.

Rahar · July 2020

Prioritizing bug fixes and retaining current customers will never be a focus for ZOS because you can't measure retention as easily as you can measure chapter copies sold, ESO plus subscriptions, and new users. It's just like the many corporations that will deal with a high turnover rate for a certain position due to low salaries instead of just paying the position more to get them to stay, i.e., IT workers. What they don't think of is the stuff like the 20% annual salary fee recruiters charge, productivity slowdowns, the salaries of the other employees used to constantly train newcomers, etc.

Performance and bugs in this game are a lot like that. Upper management only sees progress on the new product. Their current tactic is to string us along with promises and minimal effort (like the performance discussions sticky) to retain who they can fool and let the others who know better and are jaded -- like me -- leak out of the bottom.

Obviously this is just speculation. But you learn a few things after being in the tech industry for several years.

EDIT: I should probably also mention that this probably isn't the actual developers' faults, or any of the community reps. I put the blame on upper management strictly. I'm sure the devs and Gina + friends are pushing for it as hard as we are, because implementing more bad code on top of already bad code is extremely time consuming and dealing with community outrage is tiring.

colossalvoids · July 2020

Tandor wrote: »

As for the performance and bug issues often attributed to ESO, they seem to apply to or be a problem for certain types of player in relation to certain types of content. I'm increasingly convinced from what I see both in the game and on the forum that most players don't have such issues and are actually very happy with ESO.

It's a problem people face when entering veteran content and large scale pvp so surely it's not about every player sitting in a tavern or picking mushrooms in the overland. But it affects the ones progressing through the content released by zenimax at a little bit higher level than an average player that just recently decided to check out the game. And that's a problem when players investing a ton of their time and effort to a broken game which not meeting any sane performance expectations.

kargen27 · July 2020

"The Devs seem to just want to release more and more content rather than fix bugs that have existed in the game since launch. "
You fall into the trap a lot of players fall into thinking that the team that works on new content is the same as the team that troubleshoots the game. Different skill sets are needed so different people work on each.

"Also they screwed a lot of people over when they took the easy way out and not letting groups que for Battleground PvP. They could instilled a rank system, ladder system, etc. Honestly anything would have been better than just not letting groups que for BGs."
Players were complaining that pre-made groups dominated. Some asked for separate queues. Other players though complained as they went up in rank the queue times were much longer. Separate queues for pre-made groups would make that problem worse. No groups in battlegrounds for the most part works.

"I would like to see ZMax push back a release of a new purchasable DLC 6 mouths to a year to release bug and optimization patches."
Same as above. Different people are on different teams doing different things. Also there comes a point where adding more people hinders the process not helps it.

Tandor · July 2020

colossalvoids wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

As for the performance and bug issues often attributed to ESO, they seem to apply to or be a problem for certain types of player in relation to certain types of content. I'm increasingly convinced from what I see both in the game and on the forum that most players don't have such issues and are actually very happy with ESO.

It's a problem people face when entering veteran content and large scale pvp so surely it's not about every player sitting in a tavern or picking mushrooms in the overland. But it affects the ones progressing through the content released by zenimax at a little bit higher level than an average player that just recently decided to check out the game. And that's a problem when players investing a ton of their time and effort to a broken game which not meeting any sane performance expectations.

Why do you feel the need to dismiss those playing the game outside of veteran content and large scale PvP as "sitting in a tavern and picking mushrooms in the overland"? Do you really believe that such players exist and that it's only them and those who just recently decided to check out the game who don't have the problems experienced in Cyrodiil and Trials? Do you seriously believe that it's only PvPers and Trialists who have invested a ton of their time and effort to the game?

colossalvoids · July 2020

Tandor wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

As for the performance and bug issues often attributed to ESO, they seem to apply to or be a problem for certain types of player in relation to certain types of content. I'm increasingly convinced from what I see both in the game and on the forum that most players don't have such issues and are actually very happy with ESO.

It's a problem people face when entering veteran content and large scale pvp so surely it's not about every player sitting in a tavern or picking mushrooms in the overland. But it affects the ones progressing through the content released by zenimax at a little bit higher level than an average player that just recently decided to check out the game. And that's a problem when players investing a ton of their time and effort to a broken game which not meeting any sane performance expectations.

Why do you feel the need to dismiss those playing the game outside of veteran content and large scale PvP as "sitting in a tavern and picking mushrooms in the overland"? Do you really believe that such players exist and that it's only them and those who just recently decided to check out the game who don't have the problems experienced in Cyrodiil and Trials? Do you seriously believe that it's only PvPers and Trialists who have invested a ton of their time and effort to the game?

I dismiss thousands of players that don't have performance issues because there are thousands of ones that have said issues every day of their gameplay and they actually need that part fixed unlike the ones who prefer activities that don't involve massive server side calculations so can't really add to that topic because of that but trying to squeeze their 5 cents. That's all i have to say to you.

volkeswagon · July 2020

The people that create and develop the new content is a different group then the ones that fix and repair bugs so the two don't affect the other
Bugs are hard because the game is a HUGE sandbox and not linear so it's impossible to find them all before release. They unfortunately have to rely on us and the testers to report them. I'm also quite sure some bugs they are aware of before release but simply don't have the time to fix it. They also have to prioritize what gets fixed first so some bugs last for years because they just aren't important to fix. An example is the running on your mount. I know if I go more than a day without playing I miss the game. I just love meeting the other players in the game and seeing how they express themselves in their character design, names and costumes

Medivh50 · July 2020

@kargen27 & @vokeswago, I do not argue the multiple teams at all. What I am trying to get across and I guess failed at, was that most of the resources goes into content design. Obviously, this is the case with most MMOs. But it really seems to the deperment of fixing issues and bug control, they would rather put money that towards new content. To put it simply, 100 people in content design teams to 2 in fixing bugs teams

Medivh50 · July 2020

Its a wonderful game. Content is amazing. Just imagine the kind of game we would have if the majority of these bugs were fixed. At least the ones that plagued the system since launch.

The class animation and failed triggered ability bugs should be a priority but up and till now they have not. But here is a new DLC Greymoor.

ThePlayer · July 2020

The game does not focus much on the so-called "Quality of Life Improvement" which is not only related to system stability but also on some updates of graphic nature, updates regarding quests, dailys, all to encourage players to have fun with ease, without unnecessary stress or waste of time.
In my opinion, after a valid MMO competitor will come out, fantasy, modern and perhaps produced by a software house that knows exactly what to do ... I think the only 2 options for the other MMOs will be to align or close, especially ESO.
I've never played WoW, graphically I don't like it very much, but I think the Quality of life Improvement in the game is much better than in ESO, the same goes for FF14.

kargen27 · July 2020

Medivh50 wrote: »

@kargen27 & @vokeswago, I do not argue the multiple teams at all. What I am trying to get across and I guess failed at, was that most of the resources goes into content design. Obviously, this is the case with most MMOs. But it really seems to the deperment of fixing issues and bug control, they would rather put money that towards new content. To put it simply, 100 people in content design teams to 2 in fixing bugs teams

and I am saying they have what they think is the optimum number of people on each team. You don't want to many people tweaking code as what one does will have impact on what others are working on. With new content built on top of what is already there it would be easier for more people to work in that area. That and there is much more involved with creating new content than just the coding. Story line being an example.

xXMeowMeowXx · July 2020

They make money on the new content and bringing in new players. Wish it was different but as a longtime player that is what I have come to know.

ZOS, Though is very passionate about ESO. Without a doubt it is a labor of love for them. Unless you work on ESO, there is really no way of knowing what resources are available.

It is easy to say this will make the game great but not so easy to do.

Grandchamp1989 · July 2020

I'm with OP on this one.

The bugs and optimization is by far the biggest issue with this game.

They gold the golden ticket here but performance is struggling.

I love this game, I really do. Love the universe too. But I still think they have some fixes to do:)

Medivh50 · July 2020

I really applaude ZMax for what they did. Do you all remember that this itteration of the game is the 2nd release of ESO. The 1st itteration was released and was terrible. Think the bugs and broken issues are bad now, back then it was terrible. You would vote to remove someone from a group within a dugeon for being a turd. The system would not kick them out. They were then free to troll the group by pulling mobs, taking chests, and nodes, etc.

ZMax decided to take the game, redesign it and then released this current itteration. I have never heard of a triple A house doing that with their game. MAJOR at-a-boy all around to them. But like @Grandchamp1989 said, there are still some major issues within the game. I just wish they would turn their focus, a little more, to fixing these issue, rather than continuely realing new content until some of these issues are fixed. That is all.

Medivh50 · July 2020

I do have another question. Those of you that have been playing the game consistently for the past few years, does ZMax listen/aknowledge the community. Are they listening better to their player base.

I remember that they never really did. It was another red mark against them and really pissed off a lot of people. Has that gotten better you think?

kargen27 · July 2020

Medivh50 wrote: »

I do have another question. Those of you that have been playing the game consistently for the past few years, does ZMax listen/aknowledge the community. Are they listening better to their player base.

I remember that they never really did. It was another red mark against them and really pissed off a lot of people. Has that gotten better you think?

People assume because they didn't get an immediate response that ZOS isn't listening. They assume because their personal concern didn't get an immediate fix that ZOS is not listening. ZOS could easily be listening and just not providing what you think is an appropriate response.

knightblaster · July 2020

Medivh50 wrote: »

I have never heard of a triple A house doing that with their game.

Hmm.

Square Enix did a complete overhaul of Final Fantasy 14 from 2010 to 2013 -- and it was a complete overhaul, much more comprehensive than the changes here -- all on its own nickel. Square Enix is also clearly a "triple A house", given the FF franchise, so ...

Medivh50 · July 2020

knightblaster wrote: »

Medivh50 wrote: »

I have never heard of a triple A house doing that with their game.

Hmm.

Square Enix did a complete overhaul of Final Fantasy 14 from 2010 to 2013 -- and it was a complete overhaul, much more comprehensive than the changes here -- all on its own nickel. Square Enix is also clearly a "triple A house", given the FF franchise, so ...

Did they close the servers down for a year or more to work on FF? That is what ZMax did. Either way, I know of 2 AAA houses doing that.

Tandor · July 2020

kargen27 wrote: »

Medivh50 wrote: »

I do have another question. Those of you that have been playing the game consistently for the past few years, does ZMax listen/aknowledge the community. Are they listening better to their player base.

I remember that they never really did. It was another red mark against them and really pissed off a lot of people. Has that gotten better you think?

People assume because they didn't get an immediate response that ZOS isn't listening. They assume because their personal concern didn't get an immediate fix that ZOS is not listening. ZOS could easily be listening and just not providing what you think is an appropriate response.

Agreed, plus I hope that ZOS are paying more attention to their own ingame metrics and overall vision for the game than they are to a handful of forum posters or overly self-important streamers

!

Ultimately I choose a game based on how the developers envisage it going forward in relation to my personal playstyle, not because my particular playstyle is going to be compromised by the developers chopping and changing the game according to the whim or some other players who follow a totally different playstyle to me and who aren't even necessarily representative of all those who do follow that particular playstyle.