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Blood for Blood should be only viable for pure vampire build
Edelner
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Just like the title.This is op and broken when you can use it on normal dps mag builds.It's making magicka builds too strong compare to stamina and unbalanced.If you want to be a werewolf you must use pure werewolf build.You can't stay on for example first stage of lycanotrophy and use only one super dmg skill from Werewolf skilline make your build op.
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Wolf81✭✭✭I mean they could change it so the damage starts out low and scales with each level stage of vampire...but idk i'm not that skilled with the new vampire system. I have a pet sorc and mag necromancer currently and don't use vampire on either now.0 -
Bobby_V_Rockit✭✭✭✭✭
✭I still like the undeath pasive. I dont use bfb because healers are usually not healers lol0 -
itsfatbass✭✭✭✭✭Just like the title.This is op and broken when you can use it on normal dps mag builds.It's making magicka builds too strong compare to stamina and unbalanced.If you want to be a werewolf you must use pure werewolf build.You can't stay on for example first stage of lycanotrophy and use only one super dmg skill from Werewolf skilline make your build op.
Stamina has reigned for YEARS. Its time magicka got something. The balance has already been whack.~PC/NA~ Magblade, Tankanist, Healplar, Stamcro, Oakensorc, Healden, Tanknight ~PLUR~2 -
deLioncourt✭✭✭✭Why should anyone play a pure vampire build when the only ability thats worth anything is blood for blood?
We're just lucky blood for blood isn't also garbage.
[Snip]
[Edited for rude content]Edited by ZOS_Volpe on July 7, 2020 4:15PM9 -
Everest_Lionheart✭✭✭✭✭
✭I take issue when vampires are able to use light magic (Templar) and fire magic (DK) because those two types of magic should basically kill them outright. As a DK standing in melee range in the middle of your massive wall of fire AOE while casting a spell that trades health for damage should be a massive death sentence but in reality it’s just a tool to drive your sustain bombers through the roof so you can LA-spam without impunity. When I do the same rotations on my non vamp DK subbing whip for BFB I get 2 less spams because I have to heavy attack for sustain. I also have to use magicka enchants on 2/3 jewelry instead of spell damage so I’m leaving even more damage on the table. I suppose I could go Breton instead of Altmer for sustain but it’s the same dmg/sustain trade in the end. Vamp allows you to go all in for max dmg because of 1 skill.
One poster said that maybe BFB should scale and that’s not a bad idea, but I feel like the real answer should be magicka sustain. It needs a slight tweak, to make vampire a choice rather than a necessity.1 -
Athyrium93✭✭✭✭As a healer main I love BFB, it actually gives me something to do in dungeons (as in lots of not great players are using it and dropping like flies without constant supervision), and I can play god if a player using it is being a jerk, just heal, heal, heal, don't heal for 2 seconds, and they keep spamming BFB and die....1 -
Grianasteri✭✭✭✭✭
✭Id tend to agree. What is happening is people are still choosing to be a vampire, remaining at stage 1, and accessing some really powerful skills.
The changes have massively reduced the amount of people and builds that are vampires simply for the passives, as that is no longer worth it in most cases. But accessing the skills, that can be a very worthwhile choice if you build into it.0 -
xI_The_Owl_Ix✭✭✭✭✭itsfatbass wrote: »Just like the title.This is op and broken when you can use it on normal dps mag builds.It's making magicka builds too strong compare to stamina and unbalanced.If you want to be a werewolf you must use pure werewolf build.You can't stay on for example first stage of lycanotrophy and use only one super dmg skill from Werewolf skilline make your build op.
Stamina has reigned for YEARS. Its time magicka got something. The balance has already been whack.
Im sorry... what? Good luck getting into any trial achievement progression or vAS+2 or vKA as a stamina char.
Mag is 100% preferred in trials, even in 4man content and vMA.
And that has been for years now, mag doesnt need more PvE buffs in form of thrassian or blood for blood.Edited by xI_The_Owl_Ix on July 8, 2020 11:19AM0 -
Honestly, don't like it. OP or not, but standing in melee as mag and also spend health on attacks is kinda ugh. If i wanted to whack targets i'd play stam. Necro skull looks much cooler
A question - is damage reduction passive worth staying on 3rd stage? Or as mag i'll die quicker than could utilize it?0 -
DT-ARR✭✭✭✭Is it just me or does this thread smell an awful lot like sour grapes...Edited by DT-ARR on July 8, 2020 9:45PM2
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There is no such thing as a pure vampire build so the suggestion is not possible and I seriously doubt Zos is willing to do another complete revamp of the line for this purpose.0 -
Icaruzs✭✭✭vamps can't use their passives because of increase cost, that applys to ultimates too! (even at lv 1 vamp you get 3% increase cost in all skills)
vamps have 3 horrible skills, only 2 being viable (mist form and Blood for Blood)
Mist form is only usefull in pvp, the same goes for the vamp ult. (tried to use vamp stun in pvp and the hitbox is broken)
So for PVE we only have blood for blood, and you guys want to nerf it... Increase the health cost to 30% that will be enough for vtrial users to get killed and think twice about using it, people will die using in vDLC dungeons too (and blame the healer)
also a health cost skill, brings back the importance of a dedicate healer, not just 3 dps with self heal and 1 tank in vDLC dungeons, and come on guys it's a melee range skill
Comparing to WW vampire almost have nothing, werewolf needs 300 ultimate to turn (reduced by passives and food), but can stay in the form forever as long you are hitting the boss, if you mess this up you can just eat dead people on the ground. Their 5 skills are usefull and were buffed recently, they can use their passives too! because everysingle passive aside from the blood moon passive (which you infect another player) is usefull!
Soloing vMA with my stam DK WW was 100% easier than with my vamp magicka toons. I had to ult like 3 times in the entire arena, and i took like 1 hour and half to clear that.
Also You can parse above 90k+ dps using a pure WW build, that comes with the benefits of being easier because you only have 1 bar to learn the rotation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMVKtZa5UjI
Edited by Icaruzs on July 8, 2020 10:48PM3 -
ecru✭✭✭✭✭
✭it's creating too much of an imbalance between different mag builds too, certain classes have no passive healing (necro) so they can't sustain it like other classes can without slotting and using a heal. i posted this like first week of PTS but no one listened and now a few classes are way way way ahead of others, magcro is really only welcome for major vuln, otherwise it'd be mostly trash.Edited by ecru on July 9, 2020 9:31AMGryphon Heart
Godslayer
Dawnbringer1 -
Nova_J✭✭✭✭it's creating too much of an imbalance between different mag builds too, certain classes have no passive healing (necro) so they can't sustain it like other classes can without slotting and using a heal. i posted this like first week of PTS but no one listened and now a few classes are way way way ahead of others, magcro is really only welcome for major vuln, otherwise it'd be mostly trash.
? Necros have amazing self heals, they dont need much passive healing. Bfb just replaces the spammable, it benefits classes with good HoTs, which necros have alot of.0 -
Danksta✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭it's creating too much of an imbalance between different mag builds too, certain classes have no passive healing (necro) so they can't sustain it like other classes can without slotting and using a heal. i posted this like first week of PTS but no one listened and now a few classes are way way way ahead of others, magcro is really only welcome for major vuln, otherwise it'd be mostly trash.
You're better off not having a lot self healing and just letting your healers heal you since the extra damage scales off missing health.BawKinTackWarDs PS4/NA0 -
kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The lesson ESO developers should take from this is that we all hate heavy attacks. We would rather eat away at our health as a spammable than do a heavy attack.
At least that is how I feel about it...
I only use it on my DK because I have difficulties with sustain otherwise.Playing since beta...9 -
ecru✭✭✭✭✭
✭it's creating too much of an imbalance between different mag builds too, certain classes have no passive healing (necro) so they can't sustain it like other classes can without slotting and using a heal. i posted this like first week of PTS but no one listened and now a few classes are way way way ahead of others, magcro is really only welcome for major vuln, otherwise it'd be mostly trash.
? Necros have amazing self heals, they dont need much passive healing. Bfb just replaces the spammable, it benefits classes with good HoTs, which necros have alot of.
passive self heals. a necro cannot use it without a reliable healer unless they slot a heal. other classes can just replace their spammable and go crazy while their passive self heals keep them alive, whereas necro cannot.it's creating too much of an imbalance between different mag builds too, certain classes have no passive healing (necro) so they can't sustain it like other classes can without slotting and using a heal. i posted this like first week of PTS but no one listened and now a few classes are way way way ahead of others, magcro is really only welcome for major vuln, otherwise it'd be mostly trash.
You're better off not having a lot self healing and just letting your healers heal you since the extra damage scales off missing health.
sure, this would work fine in some cases where you have constant, reliable incoming heals, but see my comment above--there is a clear advantage of classes who have passive self heals and only need to replace their spammable.
ZOS added in a very strong ability that uses a resource which some classes passively regenerate, and others don't. you don't see the problem with that?Edited by ecru on July 9, 2020 10:56PMGryphon Heart
Godslayer
Dawnbringer1 -
Everest_Lionheart✭✭✭✭✭
✭The lesson ESO developers should take from this is that we all hate heavy attacks. We would rather eat away at our health as a spammable than do a heavy attack.
At least that is how I feel about it...
I only use it on my DK because I have difficulties with sustain otherwise.
I don’t mind heavy attacking but on my MagDK it’s a must for sustain. Luckily molten armaments boosts the HA by 50% and it’s a 30 sec timer. It brings utility to the group too which is always welcome. I still feel like heavy attacks leave something to be desired though even with the extra dmg boost.0 -
IonicKai✭✭✭✭xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »itsfatbass wrote: »Just like the title.This is op and broken when you can use it on normal dps mag builds.It's making magicka builds too strong compare to stamina and unbalanced.If you want to be a werewolf you must use pure werewolf build.You can't stay on for example first stage of lycanotrophy and use only one super dmg skill from Werewolf skilline make your build op.
Stamina has reigned for YEARS. Its time magicka got something. The balance has already been whack.
Im sorry... what? Good luck getting into any trial achievement progression or vAS+2 or vKA as a stamina char.
Mag is 100% preferred in trials, even in 4man content and vMA.
And that has been for years now, mag doesnt need more PvE buffs in form of thrassian or blood for blood.
For this patch and last patch mag has been the desired however all the way from wrathstone to dragonhold stam was considered the superior DPS in everything but vAS and vCR. Even then some of the best scores were stam comp with bow/bow builds. The issue with stam is damage on targets during high movement or multiple target situations. Last patch what changed was DKs were a bit overturned but they destroyed that with nerfs to the DK and perfected asylum staff.
This patch no doubt mag is superior but it's not because of bfb (though that is a great sustain tool for pure stack and burn fights bridging the gap with the trade off of playing like stam on a mag). It's because it's easiest to optimize a group around a consistent comp (all mag or all stam) and mag brings more options to the table with similar single target capabilities. Even if stam hits harder single target they provide less options for group positioning and significantly less cleave (thank the caltrops nerf for this disparity). They also require more gear changes which makes using them on console difficult for score pushing as we don't have add-ons for gear swapping.
I will say that thrassians will either need a stam equivalent (or just to be adjusted to give weapon and spell damage) or it will be an obvious reason to never bring stam. I don't think they should completely nerf it though as the trade off makes sense. It benefits optimized groups but punishes ignoring mechanics as things that wouldn't kill you before can with with extra damage you take. It breaks some fights but this is also old content and should be easier now then it was at release.
Also most progression teams expect you to be able to play mag or stam and comply with what is best for the group, at least in my experience.
Edit: comment about thrassiansEdited by IonicKai on July 10, 2020 5:29PM0 -
Apox✭✭✭✭✭blood for blood doesnt break mag builds, thrassians does. blood for blood actually has mag builds surprisingly equal to stam dps since before this patch stamcro reigned supreme.
blood for blood also has mag builds performing higher on the iron atro. in a real trial you dont get the benefit since residual hots and aoe heals immediately top you off.
You clearly have not put much thought into this1 -
HappyTheCamper✭✭✭✭✭Yea I’ll agree. I thought the whole reason we were getting a vampire overhaul was because prior to Greymoor people were only using vampires for their passives as mag DPS. I always refused to just make my mag characters vampires for some stupid mini bonus, and I got excited with the news of a new vampire overhaul thinking that they’d finally get their own identity.
...Then blood for blood was thrown into every mag DPS build...vampire abilities should only be used for pure vampire builds. All or nothing.0 -
Apox✭✭✭✭✭it's creating too much of an imbalance between different mag builds too, certain classes have no passive healing (necro) so they can't sustain it like other classes can without slotting and using a heal. i posted this like first week of PTS but no one listened and now a few classes are way way way ahead of others, magcro is really only welcome for major vuln, otherwise it'd be mostly trash.
you dont need any healing to parse with b4b as a necro or magden. their rotation has so many other things theyre doing that spammables takes a major back seat and they passively regen enough health to use it without heals.
proof
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fm2FX8xub2Q
also, you guys are still forgetting that b4b isnt any stronger than any other spammable for trials since healers keep your hp at 100% anyways. the only advantage it gives is muchc easier to sustain rotation, which is a clear indicator that nobody likes having to micromanage their resource in pve
youre all just looking at dummy humpers and screaming bloody murder because of one niche scenario that literally never happens to that degree anywhere else in the game2 -
Everest_Lionheart✭✭✭✭✭
✭it's creating too much of an imbalance between different mag builds too, certain classes have no passive healing (necro) so they can't sustain it like other classes can without slotting and using a heal. i posted this like first week of PTS but no one listened and now a few classes are way way way ahead of others, magcro is really only welcome for major vuln, otherwise it'd be mostly trash.
you dont need any healing to parse with b4b as a necro or magden. their rotation has so many other things theyre doing that spammables takes a major back seat and they passively regen enough health to use it without heals.
proofhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fm2FX8xub2Q
also, you guys are still forgetting that b4b isnt any stronger than any other spammable for trials since healers keep your hp at 100% anyways. the only advantage it gives is muchc easier to sustain rotation, which is a clear indicator that nobody likes having to micromanage their resource in pve
youre all just looking at dummy humpers and screaming bloody murder because of one niche scenario that literally never happens to that degree anywhere else in the game
Honestly though I dread the heavy attack part of my rotation. 3 molten whips heavy attack weaving versus 8 when light weaving on my MagDK. I especially hate the heavy weaving when soloing WBs and 4 man content especially when the adds come. In the end my issue is less BFB but more lack of sustain on mag class. I would love to be able to drop this absorb magicka enchant that I have on my backbar but I need it just to be able to compose a reasonable rotation. Maybe one day with perfected False Gods I’ll be better 😆0 -
ecru✭✭✭✭✭
✭it's creating too much of an imbalance between different mag builds too, certain classes have no passive healing (necro) so they can't sustain it like other classes can without slotting and using a heal. i posted this like first week of PTS but no one listened and now a few classes are way way way ahead of others, magcro is really only welcome for major vuln, otherwise it'd be mostly trash.
you dont need any healing to parse with b4b as a necro or magden. their rotation has so many other things theyre doing that spammables takes a major back seat and they passively regen enough health to use it without heals.
proofhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fm2FX8xub2Q
also, you guys are still forgetting that b4b isnt any stronger than any other spammable for trials since healers keep your hp at 100% anyways. the only advantage it gives is muchc easier to sustain rotation, which is a clear indicator that nobody likes having to micromanage their resource in pve
youre all just looking at dummy humpers and screaming bloody murder because of one niche scenario that literally never happens to that degree anywhere else in the game
This has not been my experience in game. I cannot just slot it and forget about it in a dungeon or trial, whereas other classes can in every single situation. I'm well aware that necro isn't constantly using it's spammable or whatever (magcro is my main), but issues with health still arise unless you have constant incoming passive self heals. This is especially apparent in dungeons where healing may be unreliable but other examples would be the inability of a necro to slot b4b when having to perform certain trial mechanics that leaves them without a healer. In these situations other classes don't have to put any thought into slotting it, whereas a class without passive self heals has to either drop the ability or slot a heal. There is an imbalance here no matter how you spin it.Gryphon Heart
Godslayer
Dawnbringer0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭it's creating too much of an imbalance between different mag builds too, certain classes have no passive healing (necro) so they can't sustain it like other classes can without slotting and using a heal. i posted this like first week of PTS but no one listened and now a few classes are way way way ahead of others, magcro is really only welcome for major vuln, otherwise it'd be mostly trash.
You're better off not having a lot self healing and just letting your healers heal you since the extra damage scales off missing health.
This. ^^^^
Healers are in raids for a reason.0 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭it's creating too much of an imbalance between different mag builds too, certain classes have no passive healing (necro) so they can't sustain it like other classes can without slotting and using a heal. i posted this like first week of PTS but no one listened and now a few classes are way way way ahead of others, magcro is really only welcome for major vuln, otherwise it'd be mostly trash.
you dont need any healing to parse with b4b as a necro or magden. their rotation has so many other things theyre doing that spammables takes a major back seat and they passively regen enough health to use it without heals.
proofhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fm2FX8xub2Q
also, you guys are still forgetting that b4b isnt any stronger than any other spammable for trials since healers keep your hp at 100% anyways. the only advantage it gives is muchc easier to sustain rotation, which is a clear indicator that nobody likes having to micromanage their resource in pve
youre all just looking at dummy humpers and screaming bloody murder because of one niche scenario that literally never happens to that degree anywhere else in the game
Correct me if I'm wrong, but swallow soul is priced along the single target spammable budget and bfb has a higher base tooltip than it at full hp.0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »it's creating too much of an imbalance between different mag builds too, certain classes have no passive healing (necro) so they can't sustain it like other classes can without slotting and using a heal. i posted this like first week of PTS but no one listened and now a few classes are way way way ahead of others, magcro is really only welcome for major vuln, otherwise it'd be mostly trash.
you dont need any healing to parse with b4b as a necro or magden. their rotation has so many other things theyre doing that spammables takes a major back seat and they passively regen enough health to use it without heals.
proofhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fm2FX8xub2Q
also, you guys are still forgetting that b4b isnt any stronger than any other spammable for trials since healers keep your hp at 100% anyways. the only advantage it gives is muchc easier to sustain rotation, which is a clear indicator that nobody likes having to micromanage their resource in pve
youre all just looking at dummy humpers and screaming bloody murder because of one niche scenario that literally never happens to that degree anywhere else in the game
Correct me if I'm wrong, but swallow soul is priced along the single target spammable budget and bfb has a higher base tooltip than it at full hp.
Slightly. But BfB's main draw really is it being "free".0
