A few non-petsorc buffs
martijnlv40
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I've been inspired by the thread about a complete sorc rework to write a few things about the sorcerer class myself. This comes from a PvE perspective, so feel free to tell me how any of the changes would (perhaps negatively) effect PvP.
First of all, I think that the petsorcs are in a pretty good place right now. Each patch they get a bit closer to consistency (in terms of what applies to the pets), and now they've come -for as far as I'm aware- to complete consistency (not counting spell damage of course).
Also, a few words about the stamsorc. While it's a fine class, it just lacks some identity and while I agree, I don't have easy solutions for this. Except one, that's been offered many times, which is: make the charged storm atro ultimate an air atro, with physical damage (and perhaps AoE). This would honestly be a pretty cool summon on its own, and also helps out the stamsorc.
Now onto the non-petsorc, which is really lacking compared to the petsorc at the moment. Though it's hard to isolate the skills of the non-petsorc from the petsorc -because you use them in both builds or if one gets too good it just takes away a choice- I think I found a couple things that would make a non-petsorc a bit better and give a new choice to how you play the class.
Two notes: I use the numbers from this wiki, https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online, because it's easiest to compare the skills against each other this way, I know it's not the real value in any stretch of the imagination, and except for a small suggestive change at the end, I kept it within the sorc class.
- Firstly, the easiest change I could see was buffing the one skill the petsorc would never use, Haunting Curse. I see three solutions for this. The first and easiest one would be a simple buff to its damage. It currently deals 3998 magic damage on the target and 1839 magic damage on the surrounding targets, twice, within a 12 second span (after 3.5 seconds and then again after 8.5 seconds). I don't like radical changes (such as Zos seems to do very often), but a 10-15% damage buff and giving the AoE 50% of the single target damage (instead of the current 46%) seems fine. Another can be a change in its operating time,combined with a 5% damage buff (to make it the same damage as crystal shards, 4196), to 10 seconds. This would in my opinion lower the ceiling of using this skill, since it fits perfectly within current rotations, with the unstable wall of elements and liquid flood/mystic orb. This is the one that would get my preference. Or lastly, an extra effect to the skill. This could be something as Z'en's Redress' effect, but just personal. Or a plain 3-6% increase of damage on an enemy if they have this effect on them.
- Onto the next one: Mages' Fury. This one is fairly easy. Currently, this is the execute skill of the sorcerer, since the passive implosion is gone and is now a reverse execute. This execute only happens from 20% however, which limits it a bit too much. A change to it working from 25% would perhaps make it see some more usage. The petsorc will still most likely not use this, because they are too limited in using their ability slots. Perhaps this gives a little buff to the petsorc with just one pet slotted, which I like since it gives the player more choice and build variety.
- Now what I find to be the most unique one, changes to the Expert Summoner passive. This currently gives you 8% more max Health when you have a Daedric Summoning pet active. This is just a passive used for petsorcs or when a non-petsorc has the Storm Atronach out. My suggestion is to either give 4-8% more max Magicka when you don't have a Daedric Summoning pet active, or one that I find a bit less fitting but probably makes more sense PvP balance wise a number of Magicka regen (like 50-125). This could fit lorewise because when you don't have to control a Daedra at that moment, you have more resources available for yourself. Coupled with a buff in damage to overload, which currently stands at 3522/3170 (light/heavy) for one morph and 3205/2879 (light/heavy) for the other morph, this could make it an option to not run the Storm Atronach. I suspected however that because of the major berserk, it's too good an ultimate not to run, but there are boss fights where the Storm Atronach may become a lesser choice. Even if nothing changes to the non-petsorcs running the Storm Atronach, it still gives a buff to them about 40% of the time in a situation where you can continually attack a target.
- Lastly, a change to Lightning Splash and its morphs. Ever since the changes to Necrotic Orb and Mystic Orb happened, this skill is used way less. Of course the changes to AoEs in general and the streamlined cost effectiveness didn't help. This used to be one of the signature skills for magsorcs, but when I see it now I think 'damn I could've used the Magicka from the orbs, oh and also it's a DPS loss'. Give this skill some love, lower the cost, increase its damage and/or increase the damage the conduit syngery does. What could help is lowering the damage the Necrotic/Mystic Orb does or increasing its cost. Not by too much, but it's really drowning out a couple of skills across classes and I find that a shame. It gives a bit too much effectiveness currently. This change can effect the petsorcs too, but I just find Lightning Splash too iconic to see it rot away, and it currently and will be if this change goes through still be run more on the non-petsorc.
These are my suggestions, I hope you will agree with at least a few I gave, and propose changes if you want to.
I really hope Zos can give some love to the non-petsorc (and the stamsorc).
First of all, I think that the petsorcs are in a pretty good place right now. Each patch they get a bit closer to consistency (in terms of what applies to the pets), and now they've come -for as far as I'm aware- to complete consistency (not counting spell damage of course).
Also, a few words about the stamsorc. While it's a fine class, it just lacks some identity and while I agree, I don't have easy solutions for this. Except one, that's been offered many times, which is: make the charged storm atro ultimate an air atro, with physical damage (and perhaps AoE). This would honestly be a pretty cool summon on its own, and also helps out the stamsorc.
Now onto the non-petsorc, which is really lacking compared to the petsorc at the moment. Though it's hard to isolate the skills of the non-petsorc from the petsorc -because you use them in both builds or if one gets too good it just takes away a choice- I think I found a couple things that would make a non-petsorc a bit better and give a new choice to how you play the class.
Two notes: I use the numbers from this wiki, https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online, because it's easiest to compare the skills against each other this way, I know it's not the real value in any stretch of the imagination, and except for a small suggestive change at the end, I kept it within the sorc class.
- Firstly, the easiest change I could see was buffing the one skill the petsorc would never use, Haunting Curse. I see three solutions for this. The first and easiest one would be a simple buff to its damage. It currently deals 3998 magic damage on the target and 1839 magic damage on the surrounding targets, twice, within a 12 second span (after 3.5 seconds and then again after 8.5 seconds). I don't like radical changes (such as Zos seems to do very often), but a 10-15% damage buff and giving the AoE 50% of the single target damage (instead of the current 46%) seems fine. Another can be a change in its operating time,combined with a 5% damage buff (to make it the same damage as crystal shards, 4196), to 10 seconds. This would in my opinion lower the ceiling of using this skill, since it fits perfectly within current rotations, with the unstable wall of elements and liquid flood/mystic orb. This is the one that would get my preference. Or lastly, an extra effect to the skill. This could be something as Z'en's Redress' effect, but just personal. Or a plain 3-6% increase of damage on an enemy if they have this effect on them.
- Onto the next one: Mages' Fury. This one is fairly easy. Currently, this is the execute skill of the sorcerer, since the passive implosion is gone and is now a reverse execute. This execute only happens from 20% however, which limits it a bit too much. A change to it working from 25% would perhaps make it see some more usage. The petsorc will still most likely not use this, because they are too limited in using their ability slots. Perhaps this gives a little buff to the petsorc with just one pet slotted, which I like since it gives the player more choice and build variety.
- Now what I find to be the most unique one, changes to the Expert Summoner passive. This currently gives you 8% more max Health when you have a Daedric Summoning pet active. This is just a passive used for petsorcs or when a non-petsorc has the Storm Atronach out. My suggestion is to either give 4-8% more max Magicka when you don't have a Daedric Summoning pet active, or one that I find a bit less fitting but probably makes more sense PvP balance wise a number of Magicka regen (like 50-125). This could fit lorewise because when you don't have to control a Daedra at that moment, you have more resources available for yourself. Coupled with a buff in damage to overload, which currently stands at 3522/3170 (light/heavy) for one morph and 3205/2879 (light/heavy) for the other morph, this could make it an option to not run the Storm Atronach. I suspected however that because of the major berserk, it's too good an ultimate not to run, but there are boss fights where the Storm Atronach may become a lesser choice. Even if nothing changes to the non-petsorcs running the Storm Atronach, it still gives a buff to them about 40% of the time in a situation where you can continually attack a target.
- Lastly, a change to Lightning Splash and its morphs. Ever since the changes to Necrotic Orb and Mystic Orb happened, this skill is used way less. Of course the changes to AoEs in general and the streamlined cost effectiveness didn't help. This used to be one of the signature skills for magsorcs, but when I see it now I think 'damn I could've used the Magicka from the orbs, oh and also it's a DPS loss'. Give this skill some love, lower the cost, increase its damage and/or increase the damage the conduit syngery does. What could help is lowering the damage the Necrotic/Mystic Orb does or increasing its cost. Not by too much, but it's really drowning out a couple of skills across classes and I find that a shame. It gives a bit too much effectiveness currently. This change can effect the petsorcs too, but I just find Lightning Splash too iconic to see it rot away, and it currently and will be if this change goes through still be run more on the non-petsorc.
These are my suggestions, I hope you will agree with at least a few I gave, and propose changes if you want to.
I really hope Zos can give some love to the non-petsorc (and the stamsorc).
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Rahar✭✭✭✭While I can't comment on the PvE impact of curse and mage's fury, I think curse is fine and fury could use a little help. Curse already hits like a truck in PvP, so I'm not sure a 10-15% buff would go over too well, but on the Fury side, what would you say to lowering the range you can cast it at in return for activating sooner (the skill comes with a huge delay when cast) and at a higher health threshold? Changes like that might work well for PvE and PvP, because range in PvE isn't all that needed and in PvP it makes the risk/reward ratio greater as opposed to standing on the sidelines of a BG and casting it on everyone risk-free.
Also, on behalf of all sorcs, thank you for mentioning that passive. I hate sorc passives.
NeRf MaGsOrC0 -
martijnlv40✭✭✭What do you think about the other changes to Haunting Curse PvP-wise? Better? Also, it's a pretty good skill in PvE (and PvP) already, it's just that it's the one thing petsorcs will never use so it's the easiest to buff for the non-petsorc.
About Mages' Fury, do you mean that the second explosion in execute range has a too large delay? I've never really noticed it but I'm sure that it will be very noticeable in PvP (never ran it in PvP, plus not that big on the PvP either). That's something that they should do if it's necessary, just apart from the balance changes I propose. I think the 20% to 25% execute range on its own is a good change, with no other things needed, but perhaps the range decrease is also something they should look at. Perhaps to 20 meters (instead of 28, so 36), and maybe increase the first damage (non-execute damage) like 5-10%.
And yeah the passives aren't all that good, some are nice, but most are just meh.
But the thing that defines the class: SHOCK damage, is really underwhelming at the moment. Unfortunately you can't change that without also buffing the pets, so you'll need to balance those numbers out while it's just okay at the moment, so they won't burn their fingers on that I suppose.0 -
Rahar✭✭✭✭martijnlv40 wrote: »What do you think about the other changes to Haunting Curse PvP-wise? Better? Also, it's a pretty good skill in PvE (and PvP) already, it's just that it's the one thing petsorcs will never use so it's the easiest to buff for the non-petsorc.
About Mages' Fury, do you mean that the second explosion in execute range has a too large delay? I've never really noticed it but I'm sure that it will be very noticeable in PvP (never ran it in PvP, plus not that big on the PvP either). That's something that they should do if it's necessary, just apart from the balance changes I propose. I think the 20% to 25% execute range on its own is a good change, with no other things needed, but perhaps the range decrease is also something they should look at. Perhaps to 20 meters (instead of 28, so 36), and maybe increase the first damage (non-execute damage) like 5-10%.
And yeah the passives aren't all that good, some are nice, but most are just meh.
But the thing that defines the class: SHOCK damage, is really underwhelming at the moment. Unfortunately you can't change that without also buffing the pets, so you'll need to balance those numbers out while it's just okay at the moment, so they won't burn their fingers on that I suppose.
When talking about the operating time of haunting curse, do you mean the timing of the first explosion or the second? The first explosion pretty much can't change in PvP if you want to retain how the class is now. Things move way too fast to wait for something like a 10 second timer for the burst. However, if we're talking about the secondary explosion, it really doesn't matter -- it's rare to not recast it before the second explosion goes off in most circumstances, at least for me. I could see the overall skill (both explosions, the first's timing of 3.5 seconds maintained) taking 10 seconds and it'd be fine. As for the AoE... I can't remember the last time I hit multiple people with curse. Not that a few percent would make a huge difference in PvP anyway.
As for Fury, I mean the travel time of the skill. When you cast it, even in melee, it has a minimum 1100 ms delay (from what I've been told) before the lightning bolt hits, and then occasionally a variable second delay before the execute triggers. The real problem with this skill in PvP is twofold: it is way too easy to avoid since you have two opportunities to dodge it (the first impact and the execute trigger can both be rolled), and since it's a debuff and triggers as soon as the target's health dips below the threshold, it scores killing blows way too easily in death matches at too high of a range. Since death matches are only scored on killing blows, you can see the issue when sorcs get a bad rep for spamming this skill in relative safety on the sidelines. Bringing the range in closer would negate that safety. Overall, though, it's kind of a weak skill outside BG DMs, but not because it doesn't deal enough damage.
The problem I have with sorc passives, especially the daedric summoning passives, is that they're too commonly all-or-nothing. A lot of other classes suffer from this as well, but sorc hurts the most from them because the trigger condition (using a pet) takes up way too many skill slots to ever see the light of day in PvP in most circumstances. Power stone is incredible, and so is daedric protection, but expert summoner and especially rebate literally do nothing when you don't take a pet. I know you scratched the surface of this, but I still feel I had to really broaden my explanation of how much I actually dislike the philosophy behind them, especially considering the archaic and completely unintuitive way pets are handled on sorc.NeRf MaGsOrC1 -
martijnlv40✭✭✭About Haunting Curse, I meant to keep the way it works now (perhaps 3 seconds instead of 3.5 seconds first explosion). Okay so this seems to be fine with PvP as well, and I think it would really go a long way in PvE.
I honestly didn't know this about Mages' Fury, but I think this would be a great rebalance for PvP then. Reduce the range and up the speed, with an increase to execute range.
And yeah the passives are indeed either good or shite, so perhaps including the second option (either or passives) seems like a good fix. It's a bit the same as a change I proposed a while go, to make certain set bonuses (the standard crit, resource or damage ones) choose between the highest of your stats, such as twice-born star. Just introduce more options for the players to choose and I'm happy.0 -
Rahar✭✭✭✭martijnlv40 wrote: »About Haunting Curse, I meant to keep the way it works now (perhaps 3 seconds instead of 3.5 seconds first explosion). Okay so this seems to be fine with PvP as well, and I think it would really go a long way in PvE.
I honestly didn't know this about Mages' Fury, but I think this would be a great rebalance for PvP then. Reduce the range and up the speed, with an increase to execute range.
And yeah the passives are indeed either good or shite, so perhaps including the second option (either or passives) seems like a good fix. It's a bit the same as a change I proposed a while go, to make certain set bonuses (the standard crit, resource or damage ones) choose between the highest of your stats, such as twice-born star. Just introduce more options for the players to choose and I'm happy.
I like it. On the note of more options for the players, though, I'm not sure giving max mag for not having a pet out would be the move. For magsorc in PvP, building max mag is pretty much compulsory (due to how shields scale) so giving them more max mag might just compound the issue and magicka regen seems pretty unnecessary. I'm not really sure what to replace for that, but that's my 2c on your changes for the passives. I thought a flat damage buff might be better, but sorc has enough of those already.
And as a random addition, I always thought Templar had some pretty well thought out and awesome passives. More passives should be designed like those.Edited by Rahar on July 7, 2020 7:32PMNeRf MaGsOrC0 -
martijnlv40✭✭✭Is it a problem in PvP to reach the maximum possible shield (which is limited by health)? In all the PvP I've done I've never noticed that. In that case it might not be the right change no. And you say the extra regen in unnecessary, but I've found that it's always great to have such a thing, more in PvP than in PvE. You can just see it as a sort of set bonus and redesign your build around it. A simple change to that would be to give them crit, crit damage or spell damage. Those are all better bonuses PvE wise, but probably worse PvP (which might be an okay thing), but since the spell damage is already done within another passives, it will most likely be crit or crit damage. 2 classes have the crit damage already, so that would make crit the most logical. Might be a bit too much though.0
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Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭While I can't comment on the PvE impact of curse and mage's fury, I think curse is fine and fury could use a little help. Curse already hits like a truck in PvP, so I'm not sure a 10-15% buff would go over too well, but on the Fury side, what would you say to lowering the range you can cast it at in return for activating sooner (the skill comes with a huge delay when cast) and at a higher health threshold? Changes like that might work well for PvE and PvP, because range in PvE isn't all that needed and in PvP it makes the risk/reward ratio greater as opposed to standing on the sidelines of a BG and casting it on everyone risk-free.
Also, on behalf of all sorcs, thank you for mentioning that passive. I hate sorc passives.
It hits like a joke compared to shalks and blastbone.
A buff to it would not be the end of the world. It usually barely tickles most enemies even when used on a fully offensive build.
I will say though that even on a pet dps build, daedric prey and haunting curse are very close together and depending on your rotation, haunting curse might already be better. So my fear is that petsorcs would just switch and as well profit from the dps increase. Other than that, a damage buff to it is long overdue.
But I agree: PLEASE do something to expert summoner. Also buff energized to 10% and capacitor to 15%.Edited by Dracane on July 8, 2020 12:46PMAuri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos1 -
martijnlv40✭✭✭Does haunting curse do that much? I thought that with the Maw deadroth it really got buffed. Maybe it's time to make the bonus 25% and remove some damage from the pets again, they always like to go overboard with their balances and I really dislike that. Maybe the change with an increase of damage to the target with haunting, but just an increase of your own damage, not pets, is the best change then.
And yeah those passives are a bit weak as well. Currently there is NO shock damage in the best meta builds, apart from your pets. Of course if you run force pulse/crushing shock you profit a bit. I think however that a general change to the elemental stave passives is needed as well. That stuff makes it too complicated, so I left it out. And of course, the pets will get a big buff due to this changing too. Capacitor is also really weak compared to other classes (especially necromancer), and sorcs are notorious for having bad sustain. But perhaps the extra recovery if you don't have a pet can be the solution.1 -
Rahar✭✭✭✭martijnlv40 wrote: »Is it a problem in PvP to reach the maximum possible shield (which is limited by health)? In all the PvP I've done I've never noticed that. In that case it might not be the right change no. And you say the extra regen in unnecessary, but I've found that it's always great to have such a thing, more in PvP than in PvE. You can just see it as a sort of set bonus and redesign your build around it. A simple change to that would be to give them crit, crit damage or spell damage. Those are all better bonuses PvE wise, but probably worse PvP (which might be an okay thing), but since the spell damage is already done within another passives, it will most likely be crit or crit damage. 2 classes have the crit damage already, so that would make crit the most logical. Might be a bit too much though.
Yes, because due to battle spirit (the PvP debuff) total shield size is chopped in half. That means that the difference between the shield size of a max mag build and a spellpower build is large because you need double the magicka to reach the health cap of the shield than your normally would in PvE.
Maybe unnecessary was the wrong word. I just think sorc could use something other than more regen or resources or more damage, like a minor buff or a damage reduction or something that would make them less paper than they currently are.
NeRf MaGsOrC0 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭martijnlv40 wrote: »Is it a problem in PvP to reach the maximum possible shield (which is limited by health)? In all the PvP I've done I've never noticed that. In that case it might not be the right change no. And you say the extra regen in unnecessary, but I've found that it's always great to have such a thing, more in PvP than in PvE. You can just see it as a sort of set bonus and redesign your build around it. A simple change to that would be to give them crit, crit damage or spell damage. Those are all better bonuses PvE wise, but probably worse PvP (which might be an okay thing), but since the spell damage is already done within another passives, it will most likely be crit or crit damage. 2 classes have the crit damage already, so that would make crit the most logical. Might be a bit too much though.
Yes, because due to battle spirit (the PvP debuff) total shield size is chopped in half. That means that the difference between the shield size of a max mag build and a spellpower build is large because you need double the magicka to reach the health cap of the shield than your normally would in PvE.
Maybe unnecessary was the wrong word. I just think sorc could use something other than more regen or resources or more damage, like a minor buff or a damage reduction or something that would make them less paper than they currently are.
Sorcerer is the only class with no % mitigation and no extra resistence to its passives and abilities.
I am undecisive what to think of that. They certainly are the squishiest class. I would rather see max magicka added to expert summoner or value added to conjured ward to give them more active defense rather than passive defense.
Conjured Ward is our only real defense and it has been butchered over and over. It's barely better than annulment now, which everyone has access to. I want shieldstacking to be gone and conjured ward and annulment to be buffed accordingly.Edited by Dracane on July 8, 2020 4:26PMAuri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos0 -
Rahar✭✭✭✭martijnlv40 wrote: »Is it a problem in PvP to reach the maximum possible shield (which is limited by health)? In all the PvP I've done I've never noticed that. In that case it might not be the right change no. And you say the extra regen in unnecessary, but I've found that it's always great to have such a thing, more in PvP than in PvE. You can just see it as a sort of set bonus and redesign your build around it. A simple change to that would be to give them crit, crit damage or spell damage. Those are all better bonuses PvE wise, but probably worse PvP (which might be an okay thing), but since the spell damage is already done within another passives, it will most likely be crit or crit damage. 2 classes have the crit damage already, so that would make crit the most logical. Might be a bit too much though.
Yes, because due to battle spirit (the PvP debuff) total shield size is chopped in half. That means that the difference between the shield size of a max mag build and a spellpower build is large because you need double the magicka to reach the health cap of the shield than your normally would in PvE.
Maybe unnecessary was the wrong word. I just think sorc could use something other than more regen or resources or more damage, like a minor buff or a damage reduction or something that would make them less paper than they currently are.
Sorcerer is the only class with no % mitigation and no extra resistence to its passives and abilities.
I am undecisive what to think of that. They certainly are the squishiest class. I would rather see max magicka added to expert summoner or value added to conjured ward to give them more active defense rather than passive defense.
Conjured Ward is our only real defense and it has been butchered over and over. It's barely better than annulment now, which everyone has access to. I want shieldstacking to be gone and conjured ward and annulment to be buffed accordingly.
I'd be receptive to getting rid of shield stacking, but everyone that doesn't play magsorc wouldn't be. You only have to go a thread over to see all of that. Honestly though, I don't really see shield stacking as a big issue. Shields, at least before the big tank meta nerfs this patch, were in this nice sweet spot where they felt like they had just enough impact to be worth using but not so much impact that it made using them be a god mode. I liked that feeling. How would we balance an exclusive conjured ward to be strong enough on its own but still keep the resource expenditure that casting 2 shields implies?NeRf MaGsOrC0 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭martijnlv40 wrote: »Is it a problem in PvP to reach the maximum possible shield (which is limited by health)? In all the PvP I've done I've never noticed that. In that case it might not be the right change no. And you say the extra regen in unnecessary, but I've found that it's always great to have such a thing, more in PvP than in PvE. You can just see it as a sort of set bonus and redesign your build around it. A simple change to that would be to give them crit, crit damage or spell damage. Those are all better bonuses PvE wise, but probably worse PvP (which might be an okay thing), but since the spell damage is already done within another passives, it will most likely be crit or crit damage. 2 classes have the crit damage already, so that would make crit the most logical. Might be a bit too much though.
Yes, because due to battle spirit (the PvP debuff) total shield size is chopped in half. That means that the difference between the shield size of a max mag build and a spellpower build is large because you need double the magicka to reach the health cap of the shield than your normally would in PvE.
Maybe unnecessary was the wrong word. I just think sorc could use something other than more regen or resources or more damage, like a minor buff or a damage reduction or something that would make them less paper than they currently are.
Sorcerer is the only class with no % mitigation and no extra resistence to its passives and abilities.
I am undecisive what to think of that. They certainly are the squishiest class. I would rather see max magicka added to expert summoner or value added to conjured ward to give them more active defense rather than passive defense.
Conjured Ward is our only real defense and it has been butchered over and over. It's barely better than annulment now, which everyone has access to. I want shieldstacking to be gone and conjured ward and annulment to be buffed accordingly.
I'd be receptive to getting rid of shield stacking, but everyone that doesn't play magsorc wouldn't be. You only have to go a thread over to see all of that. Honestly though, I don't really see shield stacking as a big issue. Shields, at least before the big tank meta nerfs this patch, were in this nice sweet spot where they felt like they had just enough impact to be worth using but not so much impact that it made using them be a god mode. I liked that feeling. How would we balance an exclusive conjured ward to be strong enough on its own but still keep the resource expenditure that casting 2 shields implies?
You mean in the case of shieldstack staying? I think shields need a significant cost reduction. When I can spam my shield, it's a decent thing. But I actually have to terrorspam it in order to survive at all. So they would either need a good strength buff; which would make shieldstacking worse, or a cost decrease.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos0 -
Rahar✭✭✭✭martijnlv40 wrote: »Is it a problem in PvP to reach the maximum possible shield (which is limited by health)? In all the PvP I've done I've never noticed that. In that case it might not be the right change no. And you say the extra regen in unnecessary, but I've found that it's always great to have such a thing, more in PvP than in PvE. You can just see it as a sort of set bonus and redesign your build around it. A simple change to that would be to give them crit, crit damage or spell damage. Those are all better bonuses PvE wise, but probably worse PvP (which might be an okay thing), but since the spell damage is already done within another passives, it will most likely be crit or crit damage. 2 classes have the crit damage already, so that would make crit the most logical. Might be a bit too much though.
Yes, because due to battle spirit (the PvP debuff) total shield size is chopped in half. That means that the difference between the shield size of a max mag build and a spellpower build is large because you need double the magicka to reach the health cap of the shield than your normally would in PvE.
Maybe unnecessary was the wrong word. I just think sorc could use something other than more regen or resources or more damage, like a minor buff or a damage reduction or something that would make them less paper than they currently are.
Sorcerer is the only class with no % mitigation and no extra resistence to its passives and abilities.
I am undecisive what to think of that. They certainly are the squishiest class. I would rather see max magicka added to expert summoner or value added to conjured ward to give them more active defense rather than passive defense.
Conjured Ward is our only real defense and it has been butchered over and over. It's barely better than annulment now, which everyone has access to. I want shieldstacking to be gone and conjured ward and annulment to be buffed accordingly.
I'd be receptive to getting rid of shield stacking, but everyone that doesn't play magsorc wouldn't be. You only have to go a thread over to see all of that. Honestly though, I don't really see shield stacking as a big issue. Shields, at least before the big tank meta nerfs this patch, were in this nice sweet spot where they felt like they had just enough impact to be worth using but not so much impact that it made using them be a god mode. I liked that feeling. How would we balance an exclusive conjured ward to be strong enough on its own but still keep the resource expenditure that casting 2 shields implies?
You mean in the case of shieldstack staying? I think shields need a significant cost reduction. When I can spam my shield, it's a decent thing. But I actually have to terrorspam it in order to survive at all. So they would either need a good strength buff; which would make shieldstacking worse, or a cost decrease.
Nah, I meant in the event that shield stacking went away.NeRf MaGsOrC0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭martijnlv40 wrote: »- Firstly, the easiest change I could see was buffing the one skill the petsorc would never use, Haunting Curse.
When suggesting changes, it helps to look at the big picture. There is a reason why many who run pet sorc builds do not use Haunting Curse. The other morph, Daedric Prey, becomes less favorable, and we end up with a useless skill. As it is now, both skills are useful, depending on the build.
For the Mage's Fury skill, the justification was because a passive that was not specific to the skill was changed. I am not sure that logic is very sound. More importantly, the skill is already a kill stealer, and the suggested change makes it easier to steal kills. I doubt this will fly for that very reason.
With the suggestion concerning daedric summoner, it seems the idea is just to give an overall buff to non-pet sorc builds, and since nothing is being changed for the pet's damage, it is a net nerf to pet builds because it would make them less desirable than non-pet builds.
Honestly, this taken in concert with the suggestion for Haunting Cures seems that OP wants to buff the non-pet builds to the point that pet builds are trash.
I stopped at this point for that reason. These are just my thoughts. Carry on.0 -
martijnlv40✭✭✭martijnlv40 wrote: »- Firstly, the easiest change I could see was buffing the one skill the petsorc would never use, Haunting Curse.
When suggesting changes, it helps to look at the big picture. There is a reason why many who run pet sorc builds do not use Haunting Curse. The other morph, Daedric Prey, becomes less favorable, and we end up with a useless skill. As it is now, both skills are useful, depending on the build.
For the Mage's Fury skill, the justification was because a passive that was not specific to the skill was changed. I am not sure that logic is very sound. More importantly, the skill is already a kill stealer, and the suggested change makes it easier to steal kills. I doubt this will fly for that very reason.
With the suggestion concerning daedric summoner, it seems the idea is just to give an overall buff to non-pet sorc builds, and since nothing is being changed for the pet's damage, it is a net nerf to pet builds because it would make them less desirable than non-pet builds.
Honestly, this taken in concert with the suggestion for Haunting Cures seems that OP wants to buff the non-pet builds to the point that pet builds are trash.
I stopped at this point for that reason. These are just my thoughts. Carry on.
I was hoping that my proposed changes would give more player choice. At the moment, the non-petsorc is a bad choice overall.
About haunting curse: I see the problems with it, since the skill itself isn't bad. As I said, it's just that it's a skill petsorcs won't use. But if it gets to good, daedric prey will just not be used. So a good balance should be achieved there. Perhaps leave that one.
Onto mages' fury: I was just noting it is currently the only execute sorcerers have, it doesn't really have to do with the changed passive. Making it a bigger kill stealer I think won't be a problem, if we take into account further changes Rahar and I came up with: lower the RANGE to perhaps 15-20 meters. Just give it a normal execute range of 25%, instead of 20% and its performance in PvE will be buffed, and it's performance in PvP will be tweaked for the better.
And yeah, the change to daedric summoner is clearly one to improve non-pet builds. But since they're so clearly the worse choice, I think that's fine on itself. However, it is also a change that makes the storm atronach less desirable, but still a very good choice, so I think that gives more choice to the player as well.
And the last change which you didn't care to read, was more of a magsorc buff overall. More class identity, which is a good thing (just as the air atronach).
What I perhaps didn't make clear, is that you don't need all these changes. Just make the non-petsorc a normal choice, instead of one that's a real detriment compared to running pets. I don't want to make the petsorc worse at all, I think it will still be a better choice, but at least more diverse builds will be posibble.
I hope you can agree with this philosophy.
Edited by martijnlv40 on July 9, 2020 7:43AM1