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Is magden just a weaker stamden?
Hey there, new player trying to get into pvp. I have a magden but i am being told they're bad and weaker stamden. Is it true and if it is, what should i reroll? 
Thanks!
Thanks! 0
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Casul✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stamden here since wardens release. I feel like this comes down to a preference. Stamden has access to one thing that magden doesn't, an execute, this makes them a lot more potent in there offense. Defensively I have always felt like magden was stronger. Healing tendrils + Arctic blast is a large amount of healing not including rapid regeneration if you decide to run a restoration staff. I also think that the reason magden was weaker was the lack of stuns, deep fissure used to fix that problem but doesn't anymore. On the other hand stamden has dizzying swing and dawnbreaker as great stuns. Stamden also has better mobility being a stamina class. Lastly with the existence of strong heavy armor sets like fury, seventh legion, truth, etc. It is easier for a stamina build to get high damage numbers while running a heavy armor build and reaching the 30k-32.5k range on resistances.
TL;DR
Stamden
Good offense
Good mobility
Respectable defense
Respectable healing
Access to stuns and executes
Magden
Good healing
Good defense
Respectable damage
Rough mobility
Access to stuns but not executes
Hope this helps.PvP needs more love.1 -
Stamden here since wardens release. I feel like this comes down to a preference. Stamden has access to one thing that magden doesn't, an execute, this makes them a lot more potent in there offense. Defensively I have always felt like magden was stronger. Healing tendrils + Arctic blast is a large amount of healing not including rapid regeneration if you decide to run a restoration staff. I also think that the reason magden was weaker was the lack of stuns, deep fissure used to fix that problem but doesn't anymore. On the other hand stamden has dizzying swing and dawnbreaker as great stuns. Stamden also has better mobility being a stamina class. Lastly with the existence of strong heavy armor sets like fury, seventh legion, truth, etc. It is easier for a stamina build to get high damage numbers while running a heavy armor build and reaching the 30k-32.5k range on resistances.
TL;DR
Stamden
Good offense
Good mobility
Respectable defense
Respectable healing
Access to stuns and executes
Magden
Good healing
Good defense
Respectable damage
Rough mobility
Access to stuns but not executes
Hope this helps.
Thanks for the detailed response! Would you say a magplar be on par with stamden or still a bit weaker? I have a magplar too that i use for pve but read mixed opinions on them for pvp.0 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭masterlouppub18_ESO wrote: »Stamden here since wardens release. I feel like this comes down to a preference. Stamden has access to one thing that magden doesn't, an execute, this makes them a lot more potent in there offense. Defensively I have always felt like magden was stronger. Healing tendrils + Arctic blast is a large amount of healing not including rapid regeneration if you decide to run a restoration staff. I also think that the reason magden was weaker was the lack of stuns, deep fissure used to fix that problem but doesn't anymore. On the other hand stamden has dizzying swing and dawnbreaker as great stuns. Stamden also has better mobility being a stamina class. Lastly with the existence of strong heavy armor sets like fury, seventh legion, truth, etc. It is easier for a stamina build to get high damage numbers while running a heavy armor build and reaching the 30k-32.5k range on resistances.
TL;DR
Stamden
Good offense
Good mobility
Respectable defense
Respectable healing
Access to stuns and executes
Magden
Good healing
Good defense
Respectable damage
Rough mobility
Access to stuns but not executes
Hope this helps.
Thanks for the detailed response! Would you say a magplar be on par with stamden or still a bit weaker? I have a magplar too that i use for pve but read mixed opinions on them for pvp.
Race change and play stamplar
0 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »masterlouppub18_ESO wrote: »Stamden here since wardens release. I feel like this comes down to a preference. Stamden has access to one thing that magden doesn't, an execute, this makes them a lot more potent in there offense. Defensively I have always felt like magden was stronger. Healing tendrils + Arctic blast is a large amount of healing not including rapid regeneration if you decide to run a restoration staff. I also think that the reason magden was weaker was the lack of stuns, deep fissure used to fix that problem but doesn't anymore. On the other hand stamden has dizzying swing and dawnbreaker as great stuns. Stamden also has better mobility being a stamina class. Lastly with the existence of strong heavy armor sets like fury, seventh legion, truth, etc. It is easier for a stamina build to get high damage numbers while running a heavy armor build and reaching the 30k-32.5k range on resistances.
TL;DR
Stamden
Good offense
Good mobility
Respectable defense
Respectable healing
Access to stuns and executes
Magden
Good healing
Good defense
Respectable damage
Rough mobility
Access to stuns but not executes
Hope this helps.
Thanks for the detailed response! Would you say a magplar be on par with stamden or still a bit weaker? I have a magplar too that i use for pve but read mixed opinions on them for pvp.
Race change and play stamplar
I miss jabs on my stamden, but run into a magsorc that knows how to build and play, and I'd much rather have shimmering shield and the slower but free and automatic negative effects removal and the instant stam heal especially now with vigor being neutered to where I cant wait for a rally or POT.
Everything has tradeoffs.1 -
Casul✭✭✭✭✭
✭masterlouppub18_ESO wrote: »Stamden here since wardens release. I feel like this comes down to a preference. Stamden has access to one thing that magden doesn't, an execute, this makes them a lot more potent in there offense. Defensively I have always felt like magden was stronger. Healing tendrils + Arctic blast is a large amount of healing not including rapid regeneration if you decide to run a restoration staff. I also think that the reason magden was weaker was the lack of stuns, deep fissure used to fix that problem but doesn't anymore. On the other hand stamden has dizzying swing and dawnbreaker as great stuns. Stamden also has better mobility being a stamina class. Lastly with the existence of strong heavy armor sets like fury, seventh legion, truth, etc. It is easier for a stamina build to get high damage numbers while running a heavy armor build and reaching the 30k-32.5k range on resistances.
TL;DR
Stamden
Good offense
Good mobility
Respectable defense
Respectable healing
Access to stuns and executes
Magden
Good healing
Good defense
Respectable damage
Rough mobility
Access to stuns but not executes
Hope this helps.
Thanks for the detailed response! Would you say a magplar be on par with stamden or still a bit weaker? I have a magplar too that i use for pve but read mixed opinions on them for pvp.
Well magplar imo is better unless you are building against it. For example if you use elusive hunter + shuffle you get a nice 35% AoE damage reduction (might be less not sure how the numbers calculate). But honestly I have a stamplar and a magplar and they both feel 'easier'. Like I don't need to put in nearly as much effort to get kills. As someone else posted above any ranged class can be more or less shut down with shimmering shield. It's by far the most iconic warden ability (sorry DKs...). But honestly your safest bet to go dark elf so you can swap back and forth between Magicka and stamina.PvP needs more love.0 -
Lughlongarm✭✭✭✭✭masterlouppub18_ESO wrote: »Hey there, new player trying to get into pvp. I have a magden but i am being told they're bad and weaker stamden. Is it true and if it is, what should i reroll? Thanks!
Stamden is stronger in solo brawling, doesn't mean its universally stronger. I like Magden better.0 -
xWarbrain✭✭✭✭✭masterlouppub18_ESO wrote: »Hey there, new player trying to get into pvp. I have a magden but i am being told they're bad and weaker stamden. Is it true and if it is, what should i reroll? Thanks!
You were told incorrect information. I play both in PvP and have Flawless on both, neither are weak... they are just different. I have 3 Wardens - Stamden is probably "easier" to play because Vigor is kind of a joke, Magden is way more fun overall, but it definitely has more of a learning curve. The learning curve is why they have a bad rep. You have to do more than just spam Dizzy & Vigor. I had the Stamden first, liked it so much I made a Magden….then a second Magden.XB1 NA
Your nerf suggestion is dumb. Learn to counter other players instead of having the game rebuilt to your ability level.0 -
Unified_Gaming✭✭✭✭masterlouppub18_ESO wrote: »Hey there, new player trying to get into pvp. I have a magden but i am being told they're bad and weaker stamden. Is it true and if it is, what should i reroll? Thanks!
Magden main here - they are very good support builds and can do decent damage as a vampire. This is my magden
https://youtu.be/oUVtLvQ1TGU Edited by Unified_Gaming on July 2, 2020 5:01PMUnified Gaming - creating a shared and Unified Gaming community.
For some of the best and most up to date PVP builds around or useful tips and tricks from an experienced player for PvP and PvE, then check out my channel and consider subscribing if you want to see regular ESO content.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCorbta-fAHKJcxJ6ExbtPwg/0 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »masterlouppub18_ESO wrote: »Stamden here since wardens release. I feel like this comes down to a preference. Stamden has access to one thing that magden doesn't, an execute, this makes them a lot more potent in there offense. Defensively I have always felt like magden was stronger. Healing tendrils + Arctic blast is a large amount of healing not including rapid regeneration if you decide to run a restoration staff. I also think that the reason magden was weaker was the lack of stuns, deep fissure used to fix that problem but doesn't anymore. On the other hand stamden has dizzying swing and dawnbreaker as great stuns. Stamden also has better mobility being a stamina class. Lastly with the existence of strong heavy armor sets like fury, seventh legion, truth, etc. It is easier for a stamina build to get high damage numbers while running a heavy armor build and reaching the 30k-32.5k range on resistances.
TL;DR
Stamden
Good offense
Good mobility
Respectable defense
Respectable healing
Access to stuns and executes
Magden
Good healing
Good defense
Respectable damage
Rough mobility
Access to stuns but not executes
Hope this helps.
Thanks for the detailed response! Would you say a magplar be on par with stamden or still a bit weaker? I have a magplar too that i use for pve but read mixed opinions on them for pvp.
Race change and play stamplar
I miss jabs on my stamden, but run into a magsorc that knows how to build and play, and I'd much rather have shimmering shield and the slower but free and automatic negative effects removal and the instant stam heal especially now with vigor being neutered to where I cant wait for a rally or POT.
Everything has tradeoffs.
Yes, but OP was asking what to do with his magplar
About stamplar vs stamden, for me it looks like they are more or less even, it comes more to the preferred playstyle. Many are saying that stamden is OP, but I can't say that... stamden is like new magsorc (after U23), it requires skill and aim+timings, which majority of stamdens out there are not doing and just spam same 3-button combo over and over...0 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I actually like magplar all around. Always has been odd that magplar has been one of the best outside of NB maybe to run vamp given the lore but I really like how a vamplar can play...when it works.0 -
setayco✭✭✭Generally every stamina build via medium armor or heavy armor has better access to higher damage. With the nerfs of percentage based increases to max magicka you will always be behind in terms of damage to a playstyle that grants better damage stacking sets and or a medium armor passive that grants 15% more weapon damage. Light armor has a penetration passive which is a flat number and will always stay static no matter what. Magicka does not have equivalencies to fury, or seventh legion or even flat % modifiers outside of slotting mage guild skills thus making it harder to achieve a higher base damage. Until something is done to percentage based modifiers( which was done with almost every race and most skills thus far) stamina will pretty much be a dominant choice for things that require high burst with little setup which is Preferred in PvP. Search eso pvp in youtube for reference and you will see the preferred builds and classes outside of bombing which was intended for magicka users with sets like vicious death. Flat penetration that magicka users get is the only damage increasing passive which is a flat number of 4884. The penetration stat is in no ways useless but in no way translates to 15% extra weapon damage. The penetration gained will only benefit cutting a small percentage of the enemy’s resistances and is reliant on how much resistance another person has. This will not boost healing or tooltips. It will only affect the damage your target receives from you. Which will vary due to build variation.
The main argument for years is that the magicka counterpart has better access to class skills, and bombing while having benefits of range and better group play.
While stamina is better for brawler, small scale and solo gameplay thus creating balance with YIN-YANG effect.
With steady nerfs to a-lot of old skills and the preservation of key abilities that the stamina counterpart relies on you can see the disparity in balance as one relies on class skills while the other relies on mainly universal skills. I would imagine it would be harder to balance 6 classes with their own class skills as opposed to universally bringing weapon skills to a strong position.
In short answer you can very well say that your stamina counterpart is generally built to perform better in pvp scenarios. Unless you possess the same modifiers there is always something to give up to compensate the lack thereof skills/passives.0 -
Fawn4287✭✭✭✭✭
✭redesigned masters destro + makes magcro an absolute outnumbered pug killing machine0 -
Tryxus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I race changed and respecced my Magden to Stamden earlier this year, then switched back during the Greymoor PTS. I'm a mage at heart after all
Smth that I noticed during my time as a Stamden is that there's little difference in terms of skills and gameplay between the 2 specs. I just had to learn how to approach battles as a Stam spec as well as how to gear up as one. But my skill setup for instance remained (largely) the same.
It's just that Stamina in general has a lot more advantages in PvP compared to Magicka which is why Stamden feels more powerful compared to Magden despite the 2 playing almost the same"We're all born under the same sky and on the same earth. Therefore, we all deserve the same amount of respect."
Tryxus of the Undying Song - Warden - PC/EU2 -
SRASinister✭✭✭Honestly a magden with a master's staff hits me quite a bit harder when they are a good magden. Stamden is easier to play with good damage, but the burst feels somehow even more predictable. A magden can use clench or the vamp spammable while stamden usually has to line up a dizzying.Xbox One NA: Sins of Daemons0 -
ItsJustHashtag✭✭✭✭Lughlongarm wrote: »ItsJustHashtag wrote: »Magden has been gutted.
Ha? How so?
Clench losing stun - you don’t have a reliable stun to use to setup your burst. Yes you have arctic blast but it’s not reliable enough, especially vs better players.
Birds becoming doegeable - although this was a good change. It such a slow travel time and misses a ton and overall not a very good spammable.
Shalks becoming blockable - when you’re fighting better players they tend to turtle up when dying and block more so you effectively lose your ability to burst them down.
Permafrost losing its damage/stun - Northern gives a lot of resources and helps but the stun and damage perma had made 1vX possible.
Shalks - lost its stun, ties into the clench change.
0 -
Lughlongarm✭✭✭✭✭ItsJustHashtag wrote: »Lughlongarm wrote: »ItsJustHashtag wrote: »Magden has been gutted.
Ha? How so?
Clench losing stun - you don’t have a reliable stun to use to setup your burst. Yes you have arctic blast but it’s not reliable enough, especially vs better players.
Birds becoming doegeable - although this was a good change. It such a slow travel time and misses a ton and overall not a very good spammable.
Shalks becoming blockable - when you’re fighting better players they tend to turtle up when dying and block more so you effectively lose your ability to burst them down.
Permafrost losing its damage/stun - Northern gives a lot of resources and helps but the stun and damage perma had made 1vX possible.
Shalks - lost its stun, ties into the clench change.
Ok, you cherry pick some nerfs over a duration of 2+ years. Some of the above related to Stamden as well, other are general changes which affected also other classes.
0 -
ItsJustHashtag✭✭✭✭
“Cherry picked” each of those greatly affected how magdens performed offensively in pvp.Lughlongarm wrote: »ItsJustHashtag wrote: »Lughlongarm wrote: »ItsJustHashtag wrote: »Magden has been gutted.
Ha? How so?
Clench losing stun - you don’t have a reliable stun to use to setup your burst. Yes you have arctic blast but it’s not reliable enough, especially vs better players.
Birds becoming doegeable - although this was a good change. It such a slow travel time and misses a ton and overall not a very good spammable.
Shalks becoming blockable - when you’re fighting better players they tend to turtle up when dying and block more so you effectively lose your ability to burst them down.
Permafrost losing its damage/stun - Northern gives a lot of resources and helps but the stun and damage perma had made 1vX possible.
Shalks - lost its stun, ties into the clench change.
Ok, you cherry pick some nerfs over a duration of 2+ years. Some of the above related to Stamden as well, other are general changes which affected also other classes.
1 -
Lughlongarm✭✭✭✭✭ItsJustHashtag wrote: »
“Cherry picked” each of those greatly affected how magdens performed offensively in pvp.Lughlongarm wrote: »ItsJustHashtag wrote: »Lughlongarm wrote: »ItsJustHashtag wrote: »Magden has been gutted.
Ha? How so?
Clench losing stun - you don’t have a reliable stun to use to setup your burst. Yes you have arctic blast but it’s not reliable enough, especially vs better players.
Birds becoming doegeable - although this was a good change. It such a slow travel time and misses a ton and overall not a very good spammable.
Shalks becoming blockable - when you’re fighting better players they tend to turtle up when dying and block more so you effectively lose your ability to burst them down.
Permafrost losing its damage/stun - Northern gives a lot of resources and helps but the stun and damage perma had made 1vX possible.
Shalks - lost its stun, ties into the clench change.
Ok, you cherry pick some nerfs over a duration of 2+ years. Some of the above related to Stamden as well, other are general changes which affected also other classes.
Not really, this post is about magden vs stamden(it is in the title). Stamden was considered stronger in solo PvP since Morrowind release. Many of the mentioned nerfs affected both Samden and Magden. Even when Magden had all the benefits you mentioned, it was considered top tier in group PvP and medium tier Solo PvP. Situation today is exactly the same. Some things were taken away, other given.0 -
ItsJustHashtag✭✭✭✭Lughlongarm wrote: »ItsJustHashtag wrote: »
“Cherry picked” each of those greatly affected how magdens performed offensively in pvp.Lughlongarm wrote: »ItsJustHashtag wrote: »Lughlongarm wrote: »ItsJustHashtag wrote: »Magden has been gutted.
Ha? How so?
Clench losing stun - you don’t have a reliable stun to use to setup your burst. Yes you have arctic blast but it’s not reliable enough, especially vs better players.
Birds becoming doegeable - although this was a good change. It such a slow travel time and misses a ton and overall not a very good spammable.
Shalks becoming blockable - when you’re fighting better players they tend to turtle up when dying and block more so you effectively lose your ability to burst them down.
Permafrost losing its damage/stun - Northern gives a lot of resources and helps but the stun and damage perma had made 1vX possible.
Shalks - lost its stun, ties into the clench change.
Ok, you cherry pick some nerfs over a duration of 2+ years. Some of the above related to Stamden as well, other are general changes which affected also other classes.
Not really, this post is about magden vs stamden(it is in the title). Stamden was considered stronger in solo PvP since Morrowind release. Many of the mentioned nerfs affected both Samden and Magden. Even when Magden had all the benefits you mentioned, it was considered top tier in group PvP and medium tier Solo PvP. Situation today is exactly the same. Some things were taken away, other given.
It’s not and it’s only considered good in medium to large scale groups now.
The question is is stamden better than Magden which it is. There was a time when Magden was better and the above changes I mentioned affected Magden far more than stamden so I don’t know why you keep bringing up they also affected stamden.
There is a reason you don’t see magdens at the dueling spot, solo/duo open world, and most of the Magden mains have moved to other classes. Yet you still see tons of stamdens doing that.Edited by ItsJustHashtag on July 7, 2020 2:51PM1 -
Lughlongarm✭✭✭✭✭ItsJustHashtag wrote: »Lughlongarm wrote: »ItsJustHashtag wrote: »
“Cherry picked” each of those greatly affected how magdens performed offensively in pvp.Lughlongarm wrote: »ItsJustHashtag wrote: »Lughlongarm wrote: »ItsJustHashtag wrote: »Magden has been gutted.
Ha? How so?
Clench losing stun - you don’t have a reliable stun to use to setup your burst. Yes you have arctic blast but it’s not reliable enough, especially vs better players.
Birds becoming doegeable - although this was a good change. It such a slow travel time and misses a ton and overall not a very good spammable.
Shalks becoming blockable - when you’re fighting better players they tend to turtle up when dying and block more so you effectively lose your ability to burst them down.
Permafrost losing its damage/stun - Northern gives a lot of resources and helps but the stun and damage perma had made 1vX possible.
Shalks - lost its stun, ties into the clench change.
Ok, you cherry pick some nerfs over a duration of 2+ years. Some of the above related to Stamden as well, other are general changes which affected also other classes.
Not really, this post is about magden vs stamden(it is in the title). Stamden was considered stronger in solo PvP since Morrowind release. Many of the mentioned nerfs affected both Samden and Magden. Even when Magden had all the benefits you mentioned, it was considered top tier in group PvP and medium tier Solo PvP. Situation today is exactly the same. Some things were taken away, other given.
It’s not and it’s only considered good in medium to large scale groups now.
The question is is stamden better than Magden which it is. There was a time when Magden was better and the above changes I mentioned affected Magden far more than stamden so I don’t know why you keep bringing up they also affected stamden.
There is a reason you don’t see magdens at the dueling spot, solo/duo open world, and most of the Magden mains have moved to other classes. Yet you still see tons of stamdens doing that.
Magden was never on high level dueling tournaments, Never was considered top tier for 1vsX etc... Stamden on the over hand during the Kodi PvP times, ruled both dueling and 1vs X. Nowadays Stamdens are probably positioned under Stamcro,stamdk,stambalde, magsorc. So Magden positioned exactly the same, mid level solo, top tier group. Stamden went from god tier to like A tier when it comes to solo and A tier when it comes to group. So stamden probably got punished more from changes.0 -
ItsJustHashtag✭✭✭✭The only worse solo class than Magden is magcro.
I see you view the game through what you see on streams. Magdens performed well in the tournaments and even won some.0 -
setayco✭✭✭Stamina warden did not get hurt by any of the changes stated. As stamina warden did not use those morphs of the skills and can get away with using more from weapon skill lines than its counterpart. With the lack of item sets for damage for light armor as opposed to medium armor with the 15% extra weapon damage passive and heavy with things like fury and seventh legion etc magicka warden saw massive changes to gameplay all throughout the years. With the main spammable heal getting up to 6k instead of 8.5k or having artic wind being a higher tooltip and a stun at the same time.0
