Loot Crates - Spend $150 = Pick a mount

akdave0 · June 2020

This season is slightly better than last season, I got both the cats this time, still have the horse to grab, and spent around 600. Last time it was over 1000 for all three.

Wildberryjack · June 2020

The junk needs to be reduced or removed. I'm not paying all that money for poisons or food I can make myself. What nonsense. That's a rip off.

illutian · June 2020

Glurin wrote: »

Yeah, that's kind of the idea behind gems and similar currencies in other titles. It's a stopgap so you can get the specific item you want without spending thousands of dollars hoping to get it by random chance.

Why can't I just buy the crap directly.

Anotherone773 wrote: »

In fact ESO has one of the least predatory MT systems of any game ive played and i play A LOT of games.

FF14; you literally buy exactly what you want. Want that mount? Just spend ~$25. Want that piece of furniture? Six bucks.

No illegal lootboxes.

((Yes, they are illegal*.

*Online gambling is illegal in most states of the USA. And yes, lootboxes are a form of gambling. You put money down and hope to win...it's called a lottery, which is recognized under the law as a medium of gambling.))

Hanokihs · June 2020

illutian wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Yeah, that's kind of the idea behind gems and similar currencies in other titles. It's a stopgap so you can get the specific item you want without spending thousands of dollars hoping to get it by random chance.

Why can't I just buy the crap directly.

Anotherone773 wrote: »

In fact ESO has one of the least predatory MT systems of any game ive played and i play A LOT of games.

FF14; you literally buy exactly what you want. Want that mount? Just spend ~$25. Want that piece of furniture? Six bucks.

No illegal lootboxes.

((Yes, they are illegal*.

*Online gambling is illegal in most states of the USA. And yes, lootboxes are a form of gambling. You put money down and hope to win...it's called a lottery, which is recognized under the law as a medium of gambling.))

It's not gambling because they guarantee you'll always come away with something from a box. If you get a bonus reward, hey that's cool, you're lucky. But that's not what you're paying for.

If you don't want to argue semantics about it, blame the law system, which is nothing but people paid to argue semantics.

richo262 · June 2020

Love it or hate it, the game needs a crown sink.

As it stands crates are a good way of matching people with too much gold with people with too many crowns. It is pretty much an end game gold burn for those with all their gear, houses, etc and nothing else to spend it on.

If you wanted to make crown crates ethical, ZOS could have a cooling off period for crowns purchased directly with $$. Meaning, if you buy crowns directly you can only spend X amount on crates per month with that pool of crowns, whereas crowns through sub/gifted are free-to-burn. This prevents people that may be weak willed from burning through their wallet on gambling. People can still work around this though by gifting eachother crates, so, ehh, what can you do.

Nemesis7884 · June 2020

they should let you choose ANY one mount you want after lets say 3 years of continuous subscription

illutian · June 2020

richo262 wrote: »

Love it or hate it, the game needs a crown sink.

As it stands crates are a good way of matching people with too much gold with people with too many crowns. It is pretty much an end game gold burn for those with all their gear, houses, etc and nothing else to spend it on.

Except for the horror stories of people being scammed, and the perp isn't banned.

No thanks. Until there's an official means (ie Escrow), there is zero reason to use a "Crown Sink".

((Which is actually pretty funny, if you think about it. Blizzard added 2FA simply because it would cut down on the Support calls of people with hacked accounts. You'd think Zenny would opt to provide an in-game platform to trade Gold for Crowns (and vice versa). Thus removing 100% of the "I got scammed" tickets.))

Anotherone773 · June 2020

illutian wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Yeah, that's kind of the idea behind gems and similar currencies in other titles. It's a stopgap so you can get the specific item you want without spending thousands of dollars hoping to get it by random chance.

Why can't I just buy the crap directly.

Anotherone773 wrote: »

In fact ESO has one of the least predatory MT systems of any game ive played and i play A LOT of games.

FF14; you literally buy exactly what you want. Want that mount? Just spend ~$25. Want that piece of furniture? Six bucks.

No illegal lootboxes.

((Yes, they are illegal*.

*Online gambling is illegal in most states of the USA. And yes, lootboxes are a form of gambling. You put money down and hope to win...it's called a lottery, which is recognized under the law as a medium of gambling.))

1) Things are not illegal because you want them to be.
2) Zenimax has an entire legal team, that makes sure they are following the laws in every country in which they do business.
3) Your not winning anything that is "real" or has any real world value. That is important because a person of average intelligence would know that because it is virtual, it is not actually theirs to keep and when they spend their money on virtual goods, it is the same as throwing it away as they will never actually get a return on it.
4)You always get a prize in loot crates in fact your guaranteed 4 prizes. You are not playing to win a radiant apex mount, you are playing to win 4 items and sometimes a 5th item.
5) A person of average intelligence knows that when you look at the possible items you can acquire, you are most likely to get the bottom tiers and less likely to get the top tiers.
6) A person of average intelligence would understand this even after 5 crates, if they lived under a rock previously and did not understand anything about how the world works.
7) If you dont like what you receive in the crates you can trade those items for a currency that allows you to directly purchase the items you want. Only the radiant apex are not available this way and are a bonus item. This is no different than the 1001 winner will receive X as an added bonus.
8) The ONLY reason this is even an debate is because the have nots MUST HAVE their exclusive radiant mounts but dont have the funds to spend until they receive one. Thus like everything else in todays world they must call it nasty names and criminalize it, in order to guilt people into giving them what they want from it instead of just actually just accepting you dont get everything in life you want. Otherwise i would be typing this from my yacht anchored off my private island.

TheValkyn · June 2020

Let me get this straight... $150 for a mount is now justified and acceptable?

Have we sat in the boiling water too long? I remember when people were pissed about a 2500 crown mount.

TheValkyn · June 2020

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

I got *** so hard this season that am ashamed of myself. For the sake of knowledge, I spent nearly $200aud and got a bear mount. Nothing else but gems and pretty dresses. I will be setting limiters on my spending per month on my card now. This has made me question a lot, I know, its my own fault, but I am ashamed. Been playing 5-6 years, i just wanted a radiant apex for once. i blame noone but myself.

Please, listen, dont get hooked on this junk. Its predatory.

Its not predatory. You have gamblers remorse and want to put part of the blame on the business. A majority of players play this game every single day without ever once worrying about what is in those crates or obtaining it.

In fact ESO has one of the least predatory MT systems of any game ive played and i play A LOT of games.

Star Wars The Old Republic, a free to play MMO, has a more fair cash shop model moving away from crates. Actually, everything in that game from the shop is tradeable for in game gold and direct purchase. That’s BioWare where EA is the publisher.

EA is doing better.

I’ll say it again for those in the back.

EA is doing better.

Anotherone773 · June 2020

TheValkyn wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

I got *** so hard this season that am ashamed of myself. For the sake of knowledge, I spent nearly $200aud and got a bear mount. Nothing else but gems and pretty dresses. I will be setting limiters on my spending per month on my card now. This has made me question a lot, I know, its my own fault, but I am ashamed. Been playing 5-6 years, i just wanted a radiant apex for once. i blame noone but myself.

Please, listen, dont get hooked on this junk. Its predatory.

Its not predatory. You have gamblers remorse and want to put part of the blame on the business. A majority of players play this game every single day without ever once worrying about what is in those crates or obtaining it.

In fact ESO has one of the least predatory MT systems of any game ive played and i play A LOT of games.

Star Wars The Old Republic, a free to play MMO, has a more fair cash shop model moving away from crates. Actually, everything in that game from the shop is tradeable for in game gold. That’s BioWare where EA is the publisher.

EA is doing better.

I’ll say it again for those in the back.

EA is doing better.

Then go play SWTOR??? Ill say it again for those in the back. Then go play SWOTR!

Sibenice · June 2020

Anotherone773 wrote: »

TheValkyn wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

I got *** so hard this season that am ashamed of myself. For the sake of knowledge, I spent nearly $200aud and got a bear mount. Nothing else but gems and pretty dresses. I will be setting limiters on my spending per month on my card now. This has made me question a lot, I know, its my own fault, but I am ashamed. Been playing 5-6 years, i just wanted a radiant apex for once. i blame noone but myself.

Please, listen, dont get hooked on this junk. Its predatory.

Its not predatory. You have gamblers remorse and want to put part of the blame on the business. A majority of players play this game every single day without ever once worrying about what is in those crates or obtaining it.

In fact ESO has one of the least predatory MT systems of any game ive played and i play A LOT of games.

Star Wars The Old Republic, a free to play MMO, has a more fair cash shop model moving away from crates. Actually, everything in that game from the shop is tradeable for in game gold. That’s BioWare where EA is the publisher.

EA is doing better.

I’ll say it again for those in the back.

EA is doing better.

Then go play SWTOR??? Ill say it again for those in the back. Then go play SWOTR!

Yes, because thinking a cash shop system is better is a reason to quit a game you're enjoying. Lol

ESO's loot crate system is garbage. The thread title made me laugh. There's not a single mount in this game that is worth $150.

TheValkyn · June 2020

Anotherone773 wrote: »

TheValkyn wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

I got *** so hard this season that am ashamed of myself. For the sake of knowledge, I spent nearly $200aud and got a bear mount. Nothing else but gems and pretty dresses. I will be setting limiters on my spending per month on my card now. This has made me question a lot, I know, its my own fault, but I am ashamed. Been playing 5-6 years, i just wanted a radiant apex for once. i blame noone but myself.

Please, listen, dont get hooked on this junk. Its predatory.

Its not predatory. You have gamblers remorse and want to put part of the blame on the business. A majority of players play this game every single day without ever once worrying about what is in those crates or obtaining it.

In fact ESO has one of the least predatory MT systems of any game ive played and i play A LOT of games.

Star Wars The Old Republic, a free to play MMO, has a more fair cash shop model moving away from crates. Actually, everything in that game from the shop is tradeable for in game gold. That’s BioWare where EA is the publisher.

EA is doing better.

I’ll say it again for those in the back.

EA is doing better.

Then go play SWTOR??? Ill say it again for those in the back. Then go play SWOTR!

The comparison was being made between EA and ZOS.

I play both games already. Thinking that you can only play one game is non-sensical.

If EA can do it then ZOS can. It’s a competition and both titles are in the same market.

Galwylin · June 2020

Hanokihs wrote: »

It's not gambling because they guarantee you'll always come away with something from a box. If you get a bonus reward, hey that's cool, you're lucky. But that's not what you're paying for.

Sorry but that's utter non-sense. Why do you think those "bonus reward" are even in those crates? They are the reason to get you to play the slot machine. If they didn't matter then there wouldn't be a bonus reward at all because you always get something so why add them. How something is a reward for spending money boggles the mind... its a purchase or is it a chance to take a ride on the wheel? And we all know or should know the crates are designed specifically to make someone spend extra that normally wouldn't by dangling that carrot. Each item in them has specific odds attached to them to ensure the payer is more likely to pay more by giving the more desirable items lesser odds.

That's why they are such good money makers for them because people chasing the harder to get item will spend more and more. The only reason less desired items are even in them is to skate the line of if this is gambling or not. I think we could guarantee that they would have less money coming in if they removed those rewards. They know it and really you know it. And I wonder if they removed the lesser rewards and keep the same odds how much faster they would get the gambling label. This isn't a happy accident on their part. Just like the fact that you must turn actual money into pretend money is a determined design all to mask what's really going on.

Personally, I don't mind gambling. I find it enjoyable but detest companies trying to run from the fact of what they are doing. Especially when it preys on children and folks with lesser resistance by putting in games at all. Surprise mechanics... nothing surprising about them at all. Gaming should be a safe space where no one is trying to prey on you. Especially psychologically.

Anotherone773 · June 2020

TheValkyn wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

TheValkyn wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

I got *** so hard this season that am ashamed of myself. For the sake of knowledge, I spent nearly $200aud and got a bear mount. Nothing else but gems and pretty dresses. I will be setting limiters on my spending per month on my card now. This has made me question a lot, I know, its my own fault, but I am ashamed. Been playing 5-6 years, i just wanted a radiant apex for once. i blame noone but myself.

Please, listen, dont get hooked on this junk. Its predatory.

Its not predatory. You have gamblers remorse and want to put part of the blame on the business. A majority of players play this game every single day without ever once worrying about what is in those crates or obtaining it.

In fact ESO has one of the least predatory MT systems of any game ive played and i play A LOT of games.

Star Wars The Old Republic, a free to play MMO, has a more fair cash shop model moving away from crates. Actually, everything in that game from the shop is tradeable for in game gold. That’s BioWare where EA is the publisher.

EA is doing better.

I’ll say it again for those in the back.

EA is doing better.

Then go play SWTOR??? Ill say it again for those in the back. Then go play SWOTR!

The comparison was being made between EA and ZOS.

I play both games already. Thinking that you can only play one game is non-sensical.

If EA can do it then ZOS can. It’s a competition and both titles are in the same market.

I would not consider SWTOR to be competition to ESO. One is a space fantasy RPG and the other is a medieval fantasy RPG. Some people happen to play both like i happen to play both EVE and ESO, but i would never consider them in competition with each other.

I also said nothing about only playing one game. That was an assumption you made. I currently play 3 MMOs and 2 non MMOs on a weekly basis.

Euboe · June 2020

Alternatively having a twitch loot drop enabled channel on in the background for a chance of gaining an Ouroboros Crown Crate could be a slow but better way of gaining gems and instant gratification without a hefty pricetag.

illutian · June 2020

Anotherone773 wrote: »

1) Things are not illegal because you want them to be.
2) Zenimax has an entire legal team, that makes sure they are following the laws in every country in which they do business.
3) Your not winning anything that is "real" or has any real world value. That is important because a person of average intelligence would know that because it is virtual, it is not actually theirs to keep and when they spend their money on virtual goods, it is the same as throwing it away as they will never actually get a return on it.
4)You always get a prize in loot crates in fact your guaranteed 4 prizes. You are not playing to win a radiant apex mount, you are playing to win 4 items and sometimes a 5th item.
5) A person of average intelligence knows that when you look at the possible items you can acquire, you are most likely to get the bottom tiers and less likely to get the top tiers.
6) A person of average intelligence would understand this even after 5 crates, if they lived under a rock previously and did not understand anything about how the world works.
7) If you dont like what you receive in the crates you can trade those items for a currency that allows you to directly purchase the items you want. Only the radiant apex are not available this way and are a bonus item. This is no different than the 1001 winner will receive X as an added bonus.
8) The ONLY reason this is even an debate is because the have nots MUST HAVE their exclusive radiant mounts but dont have the funds to spend until they receive one. Thus like everything else in todays world they must call it nasty names and criminalize it, in order to guilt people into giving them what they want from it instead of just actually just accepting you dont get everything in life you want. Otherwise i would be typing this from my yacht anchored off my private island. [/quote]

Lootboxes do not guarantee the drop you want. - I can attest to that...I have so many Crown Potions/Poisons/Food/Drink from the few lootcrates I've gotten from login/pre order rewards, as well as purchased.

Lootboxes require money to purchase.

1. Anything purchased with currency (either in house or government-issued [ie Chips at casinos or USD at the lottery]), where the outcome of said purchase IS NOT GUARANTEED is gambling. - Go look up the definition of gambling if you doubt me.

2. "While loot boxes involve an element of chance because players do not know what they will get, they are not covered by existing gambling legislation because the items “won” are not considered to have monetary value." - That is how the legal team gets the company out of trouble. - Google: are loot boxes gambling | You'll see article after article stating that Lootboxes are in a legal grey area because the laws are too specific (I'm totally sure no lobbying groups had a hand in that!)

3. So. Because it's not tangible, It has no value. Right. I'm sure you would have no issue if ZOS just deleted your account 'just because'. If it costs us money, humans care about it; tangible or intangible.

4. Ah, but the chances are not listed. Which has caused some trouble, prompting MS, Nintendo, and Sony to require loot box odds be disclosed; Activision-Blizzard, Bethesda (so a member of Zenimax), EA, Ubisoft, and Wizards of the Coast are also agreeing to do that same. - On a whim, I bought a stack for like 1800 crowns. I got a bunch of potions/poisons/food/drink and ONE item, one of the pets for that month. While it didn't actually cost me anything (ESO+ member here). I doubt many would drop dollars if they saw they'd mostly get useless items.

5. Again, odds are not stated. So ya, "average person" would assume they'd get 'consolation prizes'. But they'd be rightly pissed if they saw the odds were heavily stacked against them; ie 98% chance for junk, 2% chance to get the Uncommon and higher.

6. lol, just because you accept this behavior from company(ies) doesn't mean the rest of us do.

7. The conversion rate is bullcrap.

8. Actually, it's up for debate because ZOS isn't making the service 'worth it' to dump money into it. Then they go on to make the Lootbox system a shakedown (3rd defintion; "a swindle") by a) Not stating the odds of winning and b) Giving a poor conversion rate to Gems. Meaning it will still, likely, cost you hundreds of dollars to get the items you want. - Again, I point to FF14; you see something you want you just go and buy it directly off the store.

Elsonso · June 2020

illutian wrote: »

4. Ah, but the chances are not listed.

https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/49828

Odovacar · June 2020

Elsonso wrote: »

Odovacar wrote: »

I've read posts on FB ESO groups of people spending upwards of $750 and still not receiving a radiant apex...Talk about some terrible drop rates/luck.

Not as much as you might think, People don't really understand how rare these mounts are, on average, because the probability of getting one is a distribution. Some people will be lower (lucky) and some people will be higher (unlucky) than average. (average is ~250 crown crates if my calc is correct) Social media tends to skew the results and make the lucky people seem more common than they should be.

I agree with you @Elsonso . I'm not a big crate guy so i'm not super fluent in their drop rates. All I know is they're pretty dismal. I always remember your signature though, lol.

I collect free, unopened, virgin Crown Crates! 397, as of June 15, 2020! <-- /clap /cheer

Anotherone773 · June 2020

illutian wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

1) Things are not illegal because you want them to be.
2) Zenimax has an entire legal team, that makes sure they are following the laws in every country in which they do business.
3) Your not winning anything that is "real" or has any real world value. That is important because a person of average intelligence would know that because it is virtual, it is not actually theirs to keep and when they spend their money on virtual goods, it is the same as throwing it away as they will never actually get a return on it.
4)You always get a prize in loot crates in fact your guaranteed 4 prizes. You are not playing to win a radiant apex mount, you are playing to win 4 items and sometimes a 5th item.
5) A person of average intelligence knows that when you look at the possible items you can acquire, you are most likely to get the bottom tiers and less likely to get the top tiers.
6) A person of average intelligence would understand this even after 5 crates, if they lived under a rock previously and did not understand anything about how the world works.
7) If you dont like what you receive in the crates you can trade those items for a currency that allows you to directly purchase the items you want. Only the radiant apex are not available this way and are a bonus item. This is no different than the 1001 winner will receive X as an added bonus.
8) The ONLY reason this is even an debate is because the have nots MUST HAVE their exclusive radiant mounts but dont have the funds to spend until they receive one. Thus like everything else in todays world they must call it nasty names and criminalize it, in order to guilt people into giving them what they want from it instead of just actually just accepting you dont get everything in life you want. Otherwise i would be typing this from my yacht anchored off my private island.

Lootboxes do not guarantee the drop you want. - I can attest to that...I have so many Crown Potions/Poisons/Food/Drink from the few lootcrates I've gotten from login/pre order rewards, as well as purchased.

Lootboxes require money to purchase.

1. Anything purchased with currency (either in house or government-issued [ie Chips at casinos or USD at the lottery]), where the outcome of said purchase IS NOT GUARANTEED is gambling. - Go look up the definition of gambling if you doubt me.

2. "While loot boxes involve an element of chance because players do not know what they will get, they are not covered by existing gambling legislation because the items “won” are not considered to have monetary value." - That is how the legal team gets the company out of trouble. - Google: are loot boxes gambling | You'll see article after article stating that Lootboxes are in a legal grey area because the laws are too specific (I'm totally sure no lobbying groups had a hand in that!)

3. So. Because it's not tangible, It has no value. Right. I'm sure you would have no issue if ZOS just deleted your account 'just because'. If it costs us money, humans care about it; tangible or intangible.

4. Ah, but the chances are not listed. Which has caused some trouble, prompting MS, Nintendo, and Sony to require loot box odds be disclosed; Activision-Blizzard, Bethesda (so a member of Zenimax), EA, Ubisoft, and Wizards of the Coast are also agreeing to do that same. - On a whim, I bought a stack for like 1800 crowns. I got a bunch of potions/poisons/food/drink and ONE item, one of the pets for that month. While it didn't actually cost me anything (ESO+ member here). I doubt many would drop dollars if they saw they'd mostly get useless items.

5. Again, odds are not stated. So ya, "average person" would assume they'd get 'consolation prizes'. But they'd be rightly pissed if they saw the odds were heavily stacked against them; ie 98% chance for junk, 2% chance to get the Uncommon and higher.

6. lol, just because you accept this behavior from company(ies) doesn't mean the rest of us do.

7. The conversion rate is bullcrap.

8. Actually, it's up for debate because ZOS isn't making the service 'worth it' to dump money into it. Then they go on to make the Lootbox system a shakedown (3rd defintion; "a swindle") by a) Not stating the odds of winning and b) Giving a poor conversion rate to Gems. Meaning it will still, likely, cost you hundreds of dollars to get the items you want. - Again, I point to FF14; you see something you want you just go and buy it directly off the store.

1) The outcome is guaranteed. You just want a different outcome. That is not the same thing. You are guaranteed to get 4 items of varying rarity. You are not guaranteed to get 4 items you want. You can also use gems obtained from undesirable items to buy all other items except a few items that are exclusive and reserved as rewards for opening the crate. Radiant Apex only drop from the 5th card which is a bonus card. When you buy a crate you buy 4 cards, not 5. And you can acquire any items that drop on those 4 cards with gems.

2) Its still not gambling. In order for something to be gambling there must be risk of loss. You "always win" with a crown crate because its not gambling. You are paying for 4 random items out of a list of items, If you dont get items you find desirable you can convert your items to gems and trade the gems for items you want. Again, the radiant apex drop from the 5th card and the 5th card is not one you are buying, it is a bonus card.

3)Your "feelings" do not matter on it. From a legal standpoint, virtual goods that exist as 0 and 1, do not have any real world value. Anytime you put money into a game you are merely paying for entertainment not to own anything. You own NOTHING inside any game, whether you think you do or not. You are paying for a service not ownership and that service is to provide entertainment. Every EULA/TOS/ legal stuff you have to sign before playing any of these games actually states that. You own nothing. When you give money to a game company its like giving money to a movie theater. You pay for the right to watch the movie and for the entertainment. You dont own the movie. There is no game that you play online in which you can legally say " im done playing this game" and have a virtual rummage sale( fire sale) and cash out and convert your virtual assets back into your real currency. Thus NO.REAL.WORLD.VALUE.

4) The chances are listed, you just didnt bother to look for them. In fact ZOS list them in their help section and their is an addon called a crown crate tracker. This addon keeps track of the results every time someone opens a crate and you can see the results of every season that it has been used in( which is a lot of seasons). The results of this tracker are actually in a google document anyone can view online. SO you can see both general odds and specific odds of items. You just have to put a tiny bit of effort into it. Just a tiny bit, less than it took you to reply to my post.

5)I refer you to post # 4 above and again reiterate that research is your friend.

6) Actually you do because you continue to play and support the game. You could try to change it but its not likely. ZOS makes money off the crates, and not near as many people dislike them as you think. And of those that do most just dont care enough to do anything about it.(IE: I dont like crown crates so i am just not going to buy them.) The people who are "passionate" about them are so because they REALLY want stuff thats in the crates they just dont want to( or cant) make the monetary sacrifice to get it and it REALLY bothers them to the point where they have to turn crates into this evil item made by this evil corporation to take advantage of innocent people. And everyone else is like " if you dont like them just ignore them ...like everyone else that doesnt like them???"

7) That is an opinion. I point you to the last couple of sentences in #6

8) Again your opinion and again see #4 and #6. Also the "get on my bandwagon " argument with FFXIV only works for gullible people, of which i am not one.

Kiralyn2000 · June 2020

TheValkyn wrote: »

Star Wars The Old Republic, a free to play MMO, has a more fair cash shop model moving away from crates. Actually, everything in that game from the shop is tradeable for in game gold and direct purchase. That’s BioWare where EA is the publisher.

Do they still have stupid "f2p" things like the absurdly low credit cap for unsubbed players? Or having to buy unlocks to do things like Hide Helmet, or equipping top-rarity gear? Or the big restrictions on porting & other fast travel? Limits on how many raids/etc you can do in a short amount of time?
(yeah, I haven't played in awhile. I just remember how, when I let my sub drop, everything got much more annoying. Definitely worse than losing Craft Bag here.)

edit: as I recall, ESO's Collection is nicer than SWtoR's - in SW, once you've gotten a lockbox thing on one character (or full set of cosmetic gear), you could pay a fee to unlock it on another character, or ~2.5x that fee to make it account-wide.

Iccotak · June 2020

spent $150 bucks during the Xanmeer crate return

I am very picky about crates and this is the only time I was willing to spend that kind of cash

I had also been slowly collecting crown gems.

Not only was I able to get two mounts (one random & one gem bought) but I also obtained many other cosmetics - including motifs, pets, and skins - as well as items to trade for gems and save up for the next time I want something.

Keledus · June 2020

Stop giving them wrong ideas.
It's not hard to put all the items from crown crates in the store for crowns.
If I have to pay 10,000 crowns for a mount of MY CHOICE, I'd be more likely to do that than buy 100 crown crates to have a chance at a mount.

Yes, loss of revenue for [Snip] bethesda but atleast shoving that gambling addiction down my throat stops and you'd do all your players a huge favor, but this most likely wont happen because companies dont act out of kindness and the moral, money is king and will always be.

[Edited for bashing]

ZOS_Volpe · June 2020

Greetings,

We've removed several baiting and basing comments. This is a friendly reminder that comments need to adhere to our Community Rules. Please note that derailing a thread with offtopic or baiting comments will result in the thread being closed.

Thank you for your understanding.

Anotherone773 · June 2020

Keledus wrote: »

Stop giving them wrong ideas.
It's not hard to put all the items from crown crates in the store for crowns.
If I have to pay 10,000 crowns for a mount of MY CHOICE, I'd be more likely to do that than buy 100 crown crates to have a chance at a mount.

Yes, loss of revenue for [Snip] bethesda but atleast shoving that gambling addiction down my throat stops and you'd do all your players a huge favor, but this most likely wont happen because companies dont act out of kindness and the moral, money is king and will always be.

[Edited for bashing]

I would get more enjoyment out of opening 100 crown crates than i would owning any mount in this game. All the mounts are just reskins. However i do quite enjoy opening treasure chests. So i would be more likely to spend my money on crates than a random mount.

If you have a gambling addiction that is not the fault of zenimax or anyone else. The entire world cant walk around eggshells to accommodate personal needs nor is it fair to ask others to suffer and miss out because of YOUR ( general use of your) addiction. So that makes this argument pointless and selfish both.

I can control my gambling. I can walk in a casino with $5k in cash and $50k on credit cards spend 3 hours in there, do poorly and walk out with $4800 in cash and $50k on cards and be perfectly fine. had a great time. Why should i suffer and lose out on that experience because someone else cannot control themselves?

Corporations exist for the sole purpose of making a profit. That is literally why a corporation exists. Its not evil, its not immoral, and they are not out to get you. They want to make money by selling products and services. that is all. They dont do things out of kindness(usually) because they are a business not a charity. Charities do things out of kindness, businesses do things to make money.

Elsonso · June 2020

Anotherone773 wrote: »

I would get more enjoyment out of opening 100 crown crates than i would owning any mount in this game. All the mounts are just reskins. However i do quite enjoy opening treasure chests. So i would be more likely to spend my money on crates than a random mount.

This is why they need to add more fun stuff to the mounts.

Not that they would do that if the result was fewer Crown Crate sales while people play with their mounts more. Unless they put those mounts in Crown Crates. Oh. Bad idea.

As an aside, you would probably be thrilled to open the 400+ Crown Crates that I am currently sitting on.

Uryel · June 2020

richo262 wrote: »

Love it or hate it, the game needs a crown sink.

Indeed it does, which is why I would love to have a decent way to spend crowns.

For instance, I'd love to buy that werewolf-themed manor, I've had a great idea for it for several months now, but... Where is it ? It has not been in the store for what, over a year ? WHY is it not permanently in the store, by the way ? It's not like it's taking physical room on a physical shelf... Basically, everything ever sold could, and should, be available at all time.

But of course, that's not the real problem. Becaus the game doesn't need a crown sink, it has one already, it's called the crown store. ZOS doesn't want you to spend your crowns, they want you to spend even more crowns. If everything was available all the time, you could plan ahead. In X months of ESO+ I'll have enough crown to buy Y. Now, if things come and go, chances are you will be short on crowns during the very tiny window of availability, so they hope you'll buy more crowns to top what you have, and buy. More profit for them.

The only reason everything isn't constantly available is because it makes it easier to rip us off.

The pricing itself is another issue. Everything is priced according to the US market, and USA has the 4th highest median income in the world. If you exclude tiny fiscal evasion paradise countries, namely Luxembourg and Switzerland, it comes 2nd.

Being rich, or poor, isn't so much "how much buck you make a year" but "how much can you buy with what you make". If, say, Country X has a median income of 30 000, and Y 20 000, but in X it costs you 15 000 a year for the rent, food and whatnot, and in Y 7 500 for the same thing, then both countries are equivalent when it comes to percieved wealth and population comfort. Until someone from Y tries to buy something in X.

That's exactly the issue we have here. Prices are calculated for a country with a median household income of 43 585 $ per year, and basically give the finger to everyone else. This is a really bad business practice, as most clients of that company will be in countries with lower median income. And no, I'm not talking "dirt poor" countries. Germany : 33 333 $ per yer per household. France : 31 112 $. UK : 31 617 $. Spain : 21 959 $. Italy : 20 085 $...

So, comparatively, everything cost more than average for those countries. Even more so as the median household drifts away from the US one. And thus, the percieved value of things is "too high". I could afford that, but it's not worth that much.

If prices had been thought for the international market, it would actually benefit ZOS. US citizen would find the stuff in the crown store to be quite cheap. Others would find it reasonable. All in all, more purchases.

Because, yeah, we need a crown sink, but we're not THAT stupid. I'd love more outfit slots for each of my 10 characters, but I'm not paying 1500 crowns EACH. At this price it should be account-wide... At this price, I'm not buying any. I can afford it, but it's not worth that much. Had it been, say, 500 each, I'd probably have bought several already. Say, 1 for each of my important characters, so maybe 5.

Current profit from me at that price : 0
Esteemed profit at a lower price : 2500 crowns.

Current profit from me spending crowns on a house / mount / whatever : 0
Profit if prices were more reasonable and in line with the median income of the rest of the somewhat-rich-world instead of the 2nd highest income in the whole world, AND all products available at all time : OVER 9000 !!!

what_the · June 2020

Anotherone773 wrote: »

illutian wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

1) Things are not illegal because you want them to be.
2) Zenimax has an entire legal team, that makes sure they are following the laws in every country in which they do business.
3) Your not winning anything that is "real" or has any real world value. That is important because a person of average intelligence would know that because it is virtual, it is not actually theirs to keep and when they spend their money on virtual goods, it is the same as throwing it away as they will never actually get a return on it.
4)You always get a prize in loot crates in fact your guaranteed 4 prizes. You are not playing to win a radiant apex mount, you are playing to win 4 items and sometimes a 5th item.
5) A person of average intelligence knows that when you look at the possible items you can acquire, you are most likely to get the bottom tiers and less likely to get the top tiers.
6) A person of average intelligence would understand this even after 5 crates, if they lived under a rock previously and did not understand anything about how the world works.
7) If you dont like what you receive in the crates you can trade those items for a currency that allows you to directly purchase the items you want. Only the radiant apex are not available this way and are a bonus item. This is no different than the 1001 winner will receive X as an added bonus.
8) The ONLY reason this is even an debate is because the have nots MUST HAVE their exclusive radiant mounts but dont have the funds to spend until they receive one. Thus like everything else in todays world they must call it nasty names and criminalize it, in order to guilt people into giving them what they want from it instead of just actually just accepting you dont get everything in life you want. Otherwise i would be typing this from my yacht anchored off my private island.

Lootboxes do not guarantee the drop you want. - I can attest to that...I have so many Crown Potions/Poisons/Food/Drink from the few lootcrates I've gotten from login/pre order rewards, as well as purchased.

Lootboxes require money to purchase.

1. Anything purchased with currency (either in house or government-issued [ie Chips at casinos or USD at the lottery]), where the outcome of said purchase IS NOT GUARANTEED is gambling. - Go look up the definition of gambling if you doubt me.

2. "While loot boxes involve an element of chance because players do not know what they will get, they are not covered by existing gambling legislation because the items “won” are not considered to have monetary value." - That is how the legal team gets the company out of trouble. - Google: are loot boxes gambling | You'll see article after article stating that Lootboxes are in a legal grey area because the laws are too specific (I'm totally sure no lobbying groups had a hand in that!)

3. So. Because it's not tangible, It has no value. Right. I'm sure you would have no issue if ZOS just deleted your account 'just because'. If it costs us money, humans care about it; tangible or intangible.

4. Ah, but the chances are not listed. Which has caused some trouble, prompting MS, Nintendo, and Sony to require loot box odds be disclosed; Activision-Blizzard, Bethesda (so a member of Zenimax), EA, Ubisoft, and Wizards of the Coast are also agreeing to do that same. - On a whim, I bought a stack for like 1800 crowns. I got a bunch of potions/poisons/food/drink and ONE item, one of the pets for that month. While it didn't actually cost me anything (ESO+ member here). I doubt many would drop dollars if they saw they'd mostly get useless items.

5. Again, odds are not stated. So ya, "average person" would assume they'd get 'consolation prizes'. But they'd be rightly pissed if they saw the odds were heavily stacked against them; ie 98% chance for junk, 2% chance to get the Uncommon and higher.

6. lol, just because you accept this behavior from company(ies) doesn't mean the rest of us do.

7. The conversion rate is bullcrap.

8. Actually, it's up for debate because ZOS isn't making the service 'worth it' to dump money into it. Then they go on to make the Lootbox system a shakedown (3rd defintion; "a swindle") by a) Not stating the odds of winning and b) Giving a poor conversion rate to Gems. Meaning it will still, likely, cost you hundreds of dollars to get the items you want. - Again, I point to FF14; you see something you want you just go and buy it directly off the store.

1) The outcome is guaranteed. You just want a different outcome. That is not the same thing. You are guaranteed to get 4 items of varying rarity. You are not guaranteed to get 4 items you want. You can also use gems obtained from undesirable items to buy all other items except a few items that are exclusive and reserved as rewards for opening the crate. Radiant Apex only drop from the 5th card which is a bonus card. When you buy a crate you buy 4 cards, not 5. And you can acquire any items that drop on those 4 cards with gems.

2) Its still not gambling. In order for something to be gambling there must be risk of loss. You "always win" with a crown crate because its not gambling. You are paying for 4 random items out of a list of items, If you dont get items you find desirable you can convert your items to gems and trade the gems for items you want. Again, the radiant apex drop from the 5th card and the 5th card is not one you are buying, it is a bonus card.

3)Your "feelings" do not matter on it. From a legal standpoint, virtual goods that exist as 0 and 1, do not have any real world value. Anytime you put money into a game you are merely paying for entertainment not to own anything. You own NOTHING inside any game, whether you think you do or not. You are paying for a service not ownership and that service is to provide entertainment. Every EULA/TOS/ legal stuff you have to sign before playing any of these games actually states that. You own nothing. When you give money to a game company its like giving money to a movie theater. You pay for the right to watch the movie and for the entertainment. You dont own the movie. There is no game that you play online in which you can legally say " im done playing this game" and have a virtual rummage sale( fire sale) and cash out and convert your virtual assets back into your real currency. Thus NO.REAL.WORLD.VALUE.

4) The chances are listed, you just didnt bother to look for them. In fact ZOS list them in their help section and their is an addon called a crown crate tracker. This addon keeps track of the results every time someone opens a crate and you can see the results of every season that it has been used in( which is a lot of seasons). The results of this tracker are actually in a google document anyone can view online. SO you can see both general odds and specific odds of items. You just have to put a tiny bit of effort into it. Just a tiny bit, less than it took you to reply to my post.

5)I refer you to post # 4 above and again reiterate that research is your friend.

6) Actually you do because you continue to play and support the game. You could try to change it but its not likely. ZOS makes money off the crates, and not near as many people dislike them as you think. And of those that do most just dont care enough to do anything about it.(IE: I dont like crown crates so i am just not going to buy them.) The people who are "passionate" about them are so because they REALLY want stuff thats in the crates they just dont want to( or cant) make the monetary sacrifice to get it and it REALLY bothers them to the point where they have to turn crates into this evil item made by this evil corporation to take advantage of innocent people. And everyone else is like " if you dont like them just ignore them ...like everyone else that doesnt like them???"

7) That is an opinion. I point you to the last couple of sentences in #6

8) Again your opinion and again see #4 and #6. Also the "get on my bandwagon " argument with FFXIV only works for gullible people, of which i am not one.

This is a great post!
I don't understand why folks have such a hard time understanding this.

Scion_of_Yggdrasil · June 2020

Keep the anti-crate threads coming!

Its a scam, its gambling, its dishonest, its predatory... we can go on and on about how bad crates are and why. They need to be banned. But the world we live in likes to make meaningful changes at the pace of a 120 year old tortoise. Meanwhile, dirty practices like crates appear overnight, and multiply like rabbits. But hey.... slow and steady wins the race, right?

The sad part is... say progress is made towards abolishing loot crates and their incarnates... I no longer have faith that *cough* someone *cough* will be a leader in this battle. I expect *cough* them *cough* to milk crates for all they're worth before they're forced to get rid of them.

Maybe if people would quit arguing and defending crates, something would change. EA apologized when the community opposed them, removed loot crates from battlefront 2, and they said they learned from their mistakes (time will tell). Did it hurt them? Well.... they plan on making several more Star Wars games so.... they obviously still make enough money.

TheValkyn wrote: »

Star Wars The Old Republic, a free to play MMO, has a more fair cash shop model moving away from crates. Actually, everything in that game from the shop is tradeable for in game gold and direct purchase. That’s BioWare where EA is the publisher.

EA is doing better.

I’ll say it again for those in the back.

EA is doing better.

When a company with a tainted reputation is doing better is a sad day indeed.

TheValkyn · June 2020

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

TheValkyn wrote: »

Star Wars The Old Republic, a free to play MMO, has a more fair cash shop model moving away from crates. Actually, everything in that game from the shop is tradeable for in game gold and direct purchase. That’s BioWare where EA is the publisher.

Do they still have stupid "f2p" things like the absurdly low credit cap for unsubbed players? Or having to buy unlocks to do things like Hide Helmet, or equipping top-rarity gear? Or the big restrictions on porting & other fast travel? Limits on how many raids/etc you can do in a short amount of time?
(yeah, I haven't played in awhile. I just remember how, when I let my sub drop, everything got much more annoying. Definitely worse than losing Craft Bag here.)

edit: as I recall, ESO's Collection is nicer than SWtoR's - in SW, once you've gotten a lockbox thing on one character (or full set of cosmetic gear), you could pay a fee to unlock it on another character, or ~2.5x that fee to make it account-wide.

The credit cap was increased either last year or the year before.

Hide helmet and EVERY other cash shop item is included in a box of their own that you can buy on the auction house for in game credits. It’s been that way for over 7 years.

If you aren’t subbed to ESO+ you can’t dye your costume/hats with dyes you earned. (Lol)

If you drop your sub in SWTOR you keep any and all expansions (included with a sub) and dlc up to that date. $15 gets you everything and you keep it. In ESO, you lose them immediately.

You’re right about unlocking on every character for a few however ESO does not allow you to buy cash shop items (mounts, costumes, etc) with gold. SWTOR does.

Everything is also cheaper in SWTOR. The cost to unlock an item account wide in SWTOR is anywhere from $0.60 to $4.00 or less. Pair that with a direct purchase model, the ability to buy items with in game gold and you’re still at a better value than crates or even free.

To be honest, I prefer a sub only model similar to what was promised while they were taking preorders but ZOS has proven that was never their actual intention. Once the sales slowed they pivoted and their words no longer meant anything. That’s typical for studios though.

Edit: In SWTOR you also earn cash shop currency for achievements!!!