The game NEEDS loadouts/dual spec

kingsforged · June 2020

Before it dies out from lack of tanks...

Nobody wants to be a tank when it's so utterly horrendous to do anything with EXCEPT tank group content. The ratio's of tanks to other roles is completely out of control, leaving queues with either ridiculous wait times, or a bunch of 'fake' role players, since there's nothing even in place to stop people queueing as something they're not remotely equipped for.

Queueing for 20 minutes to get into a Veteran DLC dungeon for pledges etc, only to find out your supposed 'tank' is just some mediocre damage dealer who doesn't even have a taunt and doesn't survive any longer than you can is beyond irritating.

Introducing dual specs/loadouts would massively increase the versatility and enjoyability of the game. Add requirements to stop 'exploits' or whatever, like needing to be in 'safe zones' (towns, wayshrines etc).

Bringing back team queueing for Battlegrounds and just adding a solo queue option would also be appreciated... it IS a multiplayer game after all.

zergbase_ESO · June 2020

kingsforged wrote: »

Before it dies out from lack of tanks...

Nobody wants to be a tank when it's so utterly horrendous to do anything with EXCEPT tank group content. The ratio's of tanks to other roles is completely out of control, leaving queues with either ridiculous wait times, or a bunch of 'fake' role players, since there's nothing even in place to stop people queueing as something they're not remotely equipped for.

Queueing for 20 minutes to get into a Veteran DLC dungeon for pledges etc, only to find out your supposed 'tank' is just some mediocre damage dealer who doesn't even have a taunt and doesn't survive any longer than you can is beyond irritating.

Introducing dual specs/loadouts would massively increase the versatility and enjoyability of the game. Add requirements to stop 'exploits' or whatever, like needing to be in 'safe zones' (towns, wayshrines etc).

Bringing back team queueing for Battlegrounds and just adding a solo queue option would also be appreciated... it IS a multiplayer game after all.

If I had dual spec I would roll a tank set or healing set and gear it. But alas I'll stick to dps and not deal with respecing.

20 min queue is not bad but sucks when you get a fake tank.

Alcast · June 2020

I have a feeling that they are already working on a specs system. Many players (including me) have been asking them about a specs system for like 2 years, by now HOPEFULLY it is in development.

Though such a system will prolly be launched with a big updated such as a Chapter. I hope it will come next year. This would be helpful on PC and super helpful on console

zergbase_ESO · June 2020

Alcast wrote: »

I have a feeling that they are already working on a specs system. Many players (including me) have been asking them about a specs system for like 2 years, by now HOPEFULLY it is in development.

Though such a system will prolly be launched with a big updated such as a Chapter. I hope it will come next year. This would be helpful on PC and super helpful on console

Agree 100% this may spike my interest back up into game heavily if I could go tank spec and keep my pvp spec. I would go ham tanking.

Starlock · June 2020

I guess I'm nobody then. That's fine. I'm not offended. I'm mostly just amused.

Kiralyn2000 · June 2020

I suspect that if there were a dual-spec system, it would be used more for PvE / PvP, rather than DPS / Tank.

Aloha · June 2020

This game is not playable.

AlnilamE · June 2020

Are you talking about gear and skill bars, like AlphaGear does?

kingsforged · June 2020

AlnilamE wrote: »

Are you talking about gear and skill bars, like AlphaGear does?

I'm talking FULL setup. Atrributes/Gear/CP/Skills/Morphs. People can use it for PVE/PVP, Tank/DD etc etc.

They can even make money off it by giving everyone 1 free extra loadout, then selling extra slots. Other games already have this.

kingsforged · June 2020

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

I suspect that if there were a dual-spec system, it would be used more for PvE / PvP, rather than DPS / Tank.

That's the point, can be used for whatever. But it opens up the option at least for people to have tank setups on a character without having to sacrifice the ability to do other stuff with it.

Mutliple characters with multiple loadouts opens up the game a LOT.

kingsforged · June 2020

Starlock wrote: »

I guess I'm nobody then. That's fine. I'm not offended. I'm mostly just amused.

You are the perserverant few, and we salute you.

I personally hate tanking in ESO, and I've tanked other MMORPGs. TERA had a great tank class that was basically a melee Brawler 'attack-tank'. Neverwinter online was just fast paced, and you had cooler CC.

Fur_like_snow · June 2020

I just tanked group finder vet CoH on my level 26 stamDK in training gear. But I had a few things going for me. 1. I know this dungeon and it’s mechanics. 2. Group dps was solid. 3. None stood in red. Much of the issue is a L2P one from players who were prob not geared or knowledgeable enough for the vet content.

Destai · June 2020

Alcast wrote: »

I have a feeling that they are already working on a specs system. Many players (including me) have been asking them about a specs system for like 2 years, by now HOPEFULLY it is in development.

Though such a system will prolly be launched with a big updated such as a Chapter. I hope it will come next year. This would be helpful on PC and super helpful on console

My only concern with this it being another overly-monetized offering. I hope we can save at least 2 or 3 builds and gear settings. Hopefully you and some of the other big community voices can talk about this.

majulook · June 2020

Alcast wrote: »

I have a feeling that they are already working on a specs system. Many players (including me) have been asking them about a specs system for like 2 years, by now HOPEFULLY it is in development.

Though such a system will prolly be launched with a big updated such as a Chapter. I hope it will come next year. This would be helpful on PC and super helpful on console

A spec change system for CP, Attributes, and Skills. So I do not have to spend gold to respect those. when deciding to switch between PVE and PVP would be a much welcomed change.

kingsforged · June 2020

Destai wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

I have a feeling that they are already working on a specs system. Many players (including me) have been asking them about a specs system for like 2 years, by now HOPEFULLY it is in development.

Though such a system will prolly be launched with a big updated such as a Chapter. I hope it will come next year. This would be helpful on PC and super helpful on console

My only concern with this it being another overly-monetized offering. I hope we can save at least 2 or 3 builds and gear settings. Hopefully you and some of the other big community voices can talk about this.

Doubtful. Giving 1 extra loadout slot then charging for more is common practice in games where it's implented. Stops people from making 1 character and having it able to do EVERYTHING without paying for it, as those kinds of players are less likely to hang around for very long than players with multiple characters.

kingsforged · June 2020

Alcast wrote: »

I have a feeling that they are already working on a specs system. Many players (including me) have been asking them about a specs system for like 2 years, by now HOPEFULLY it is in development.

Though such a system will prolly be launched with a big updated such as a Chapter. I hope it will come next year. This would be helpful on PC and super helpful on console

Good to know people with a platform are trying to get something implemented. Would definitely improve the game a lot. Here's hoping...

Destai · June 2020

kingsforged wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

I have a feeling that they are already working on a specs system. Many players (including me) have been asking them about a specs system for like 2 years, by now HOPEFULLY it is in development.

Though such a system will prolly be launched with a big updated such as a Chapter. I hope it will come next year. This would be helpful on PC and super helpful on console

My only concern with this it being another overly-monetized offering. I hope we can save at least 2 or 3 builds and gear settings. Hopefully you and some of the other big community voices can talk about this.

Doubtful. Giving 1 extra loadout slot then charging for more is common practice in games where it's implented. Stops people from making 1 character and having it able to do EVERYTHING without paying for it, as those kinds of players are less likely to hang around for very long than players with multiple characters.

The specific example is from Guild Wars 2 - they give you 3 builds and 2 equipment loadouts out of the box. I don't expect ZOS to be as generous as them, so yeah it'll probably be one per character. For this game, 2 free builds per character makes sense, one PVE and PVP, or overland and dungeon, etc. Beyond two, yeah pay for it, IMO.

Caligamy_ESO · June 2020

Oh I can imagine the inventory management debacle already

Prrasha · June 2020

Caligamy_ESO wrote: »

Oh I can imagine the inventory management debacle already

Lots of people already use multi-spec mods (alphagear, etc). Those don't do morphs and CP and such, but there's no inventory management debacle... absolute-worst-case (dw/dw with different poisons) you need 16 slots to carry your other spec...

Granted, I have one character with 3 sets of gear (dps, stealth, and runspeed/harvesting) who has issues... but the issue is the harvesting process, and trying to carry all the treasure maps and surveys for my account. She'd still have issues if that was her only spec.

gatekeeper13 · June 2020

ZOS: "You know what, tanks? You re going to take care of everything in a dungeon, CC mobs and monsters that can 1-shot, escape 1-shot mechanics, buff, debuff and taunt endlessly and hold block like a potato till you get bored to death and have zero fun so that DD's can do their job easily. And if you do a mistake and wipe group, we ll let the weirdos trash talk to you, no matter if they died because they haven't learned to roll-dodge when a monster heavy attacks them or because they can't stay out of aoe."

Result: Players abandon tanking roles.

Community: "Why are there so few tanks in game?"

I believe I must be some kind of masochist for still playing as a tank in PVE but that's the role I ve learned best. Managed to complete almost all vet DLC dungeons but still, I don't find tanking entertaining any more. So why do I tank? Because I am better and more experienced at tanking than DD in PVE. Tanking needs heavy changes, although I don't think it's possible after so many years.

kingsforged · June 2020

Caligamy_ESO wrote: »

Oh I can imagine the inventory management debacle already

I'd rather deal with managing inventory than not being able to get a tank or having to pay a minimum of 3k every time I want to respec for PVP/PVE etc

kingsforged · June 2020

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

ZOS: "You know what, tanks? You re going to take care of everything in a dungeon, CC mobs and monsters that can 1-shot, escape 1-shot mechanics, buff, debuff and taunt endlessly and hold block like a potato till you get bored to death and have zero fun so that DD's can do their job easily. And if you do a mistake and wipe group, we ll let the weirdos trash talk to you, no matter if they died because they haven't learned to roll-dodge when a monster heavy attacks them or because they can't stay out of aoe."

Result: Players abandon tanking roles.

Community: "Why are there so few tanks in game?"

I believe I must be some kind of masochist for still playing as a tank in PVE but that's the role I ve learned best. Managed to complete almost all vet DLC dungeons but still, I don't find tanking entertaining any more. So why do I tank? Because I am better and more experienced at tanking than DD in PVE. Tanking needs heavy changes, although I don't think it's possible after so many years.

The lack of an AoE taunt is honestly completely beyond me... it's such an artificial attempt at difficulty. I agree though, tanking is a tough job for the same rewards as everybody else... except a full tank has to majorly struggle to anything else like solo content etc.

As I said above, I've mained tanks on other mmorpgs where it was actually enjoyable, can't do it here. Give me a dual-loadout option and I'll bring my tank out to play, without that, I only use it when my guild is absolutely desperate.

Eifleber · June 2020

Just gear/skill sets would already be VERY welcome!!

BruceAndre · July 2020

I've been loving this game for years now, up to 10 toons maxed out. You know how it is, trying out different classes and race combos etc. I fell into tanking for a lot of the same reasons and like it a lot. I'm happy to tank whatever my guilds need. Then I realized that all the cool 'in game' achievements are character bound. So, I re-specked my main to tank to continue to be that tank guy when needed. My response lately to "hey! you wanna run 'X' dungeon with us? we need a tank!" is "hell yea, just give me a few minutes to change my gear up". If I'm heading into Cyrodiil or if a scheduled trial group has the tank roles filled and has an open dps slot, I'll re-speck champion/attribute points and then change everything back for tank later. I find most solo content is pretty casual as a maxed out character even though my champ/attrib point are geared toward tanking. As long as the gear fits the build for stam/mag whatevz. I'm talking about zone dailies and such. With Battlegrounds being Non Champ there's a little leeway on demand for a change. Again, consider this is my main character. I'm working towards ALL YELLOW BARS on that /Journal/Achievement menu, ya heard. Just getting all the rare mob drops to unlock those different dyes from the outfit station is task enough on it's own and you'll have a hard time getting them if you don't play on one character. Now, after building this main to what it has, skill points galore, my favorite skills and passives ready to use without going to the shrine (which I super appreciate the changes there, I use them a lot on other characters) hold up, let me check my spreadsheet to adjust these champion points one by one. Heh heh, hey you know where this is going. I'm excited to be able to buy outfit slots and have 10 different outfits to fit the occasion. I have multiple on different toons

Check this out, I have outfits dedicated to the team I end up on in Battlegrounds, so if I end up on Firedrakes I rock the whole set. For fun of course , it's all fun. I'll give up some of my paid outfit slots for a few load-out slots. ZOS, you know we'll pay. We're buying hundreds of dollars worth in Crowns every year and ESO Plus. I know you know the meme "Take My Money". But yo, at the end of the day, load-outs or not, I'll see ya'll in game because it's *** awesome. Put me down for a YES vote on load-outs and ya'll be cool. Peace.

Mindcr0w · July 2020

No no, what the game really needs is dual riding mounts not dual specs...

AlnilamE · July 2020

kingsforged wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Are you talking about gear and skill bars, like AlphaGear does?

I'm talking FULL setup. Atrributes/Gear/CP/Skills/Morphs. People can use it for PVE/PVP, Tank/DD etc etc.

They can even make money off it by giving everyone 1 free extra loadout, then selling extra slots. Other games already have this.

Attributes, Skills/Morphs and CP cost gold in game, and quite a bit of it. Would the game charge you the full amount each time?

You are perfectly able to spec yourself as a tank if that's your main role, and then have a DPS set-up for when you are doing solo stuff, since a lot of the tanking skills don't overlap with DPS skills.

So I think a Gear/Skill bar load out is far more feasible than a full loadout (which would cost gold, and possibly crowns to swap between.

Kurat · July 2020

Lack of respec system is not the reason why theres not enough tanks for pug dungeons. Its because of bad dps. No one likes to watch some 10k dps humping a boss for 10min. PC players already have addons to change skills and sets.
There are plenty of tanks out there. They just play with guildys and friends. I've been in many pve guilds and I can hardly use my tank for pledges because theres so many tanks available. Same for guild trial runs. Tank spots are the first ones filled.
But some kind of respec system would be nice to have regardless.

amm7sb14_ESO · July 2020

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

ZOS: "You know what, tanks? You re going to take care of everything in a dungeon, CC mobs and monsters that can 1-shot, escape 1-shot mechanics, buff, debuff and taunt endlessly and hold block like a potato till you get bored to death and have zero fun so that DD's can do their job easily. And if you do a mistake and wipe group, we ll let the weirdos trash talk to you, no matter if they died because they haven't learned to roll-dodge when a monster heavy attacks them or because they can't stay out of aoe."

Result: Players abandon tanking roles.

Community: "Why are there so few tanks in game?"

I believe I must be some kind of masochist for still playing as a tank in PVE but that's the role I ve learned best. Managed to complete almost all vet DLC dungeons but still, I don't find tanking entertaining any more. So why do I tank? Because I am better and more experienced at tanking than DD in PVE. Tanking needs heavy changes, although I don't think it's possible after so many years.

I don't blame ZOS for that. I blame the community. Specifically the DPS who can't be bothered to take a half second off their rotation to hit a synergy, and expect me to wear a medium armor damage set to take care of it for them.

I love tanking in this game and it's my favorite role. But I feel the pressure more from the community than ZOS to railroad into a specific setup.

I can complete any content in the game with my setups. But the DPS won't like it cuz they may have to trigger a synergy

amm7sb14_ESO · July 2020

Kurat wrote: »

Lack of respec system is not the reason why theres not enough tanks for pug dungeons. Its because of bad dps. No one likes to watch some 10k dps humping a boss for 10min. PC players already have addons to change skills and sets.
There are plenty of tanks out there. They just play with guildys and friends. I've been in many pve guilds and I can hardly use my tank for pledges because theres so many tanks available. Same for guild trial runs. Tank spots are the first ones filled.
But some kind of respec system would be nice to have regardless.

No, my problem isnt with dps who have low output.

My problem is with dps who want to dictate what gear I run and how I have my bars set up.

Mostly all so that I can do things so they don't have to.

I find the dps community in this game to very often have a selfish attitude and philosophy towards the game, and are often dictating to the other roles how their characters should be set up.

That's why this tank doesn't PUG. I have no time for people trying to tell me how to play my own characters.

That low output dps is probably someone just learning the game and wanting to just have fun. I'd love to play with him / her even if the run took a little bit longer. I'd much rather play with them than the 90k dos elitist who wants to tell everyone else how to build their char.

Alentarlixia · July 2020

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

I don't blame ZOS for that. I blame the community.

This. Story Time:

I have 6 Healers and 4 Tanks that are capable of tanking Vet-Dungeon. With all that nice tanky stuff. Alkosh, Yolna, Torugs, Ebon, etc. And now here we go, Tankadventures.

NORMAL or Non-DLC-Vet

a) 10%
Things went well. All Bosses down, loot distributed, eventually given hints to some ambitious newbies.

b) 30% (if Dungeon is Daily)
Group has at least one newbie. Starting to tank slowly. Things go well, pull the second group. 540CP DPS with 2 lightning staffs jumps through the next groups and directly pulls the next boss. Newbie dies, healer leaves, DPS "lol, my guild does it with 4DD"

c) 30% (if Dungeon is Daily)
Fakehealer with 180CP. Before I change my spec, the Bow/Bow-Woodelf-Magicka-Hybrid Warden pulls the first group, dies. Blames the healer. The second DPS blames the first DPS. Healer: "lol noobs" and leaves. Another Fakeheal appears and pulls the next three groups.

d) 30% (if Dungeon is Daily)
Healer: Healing-Staff / Icestaff. RP-Style Build, queued for the Dungeon looking for the shiny lead. No Combat Prayer, both Templar Burst Heals, No Magicka left after 20 seconds, wearing Coldharbours Favorite. Heavy Armour. Of Course with Trifocus.

DPS 1: Bow/Bow Breton Hunter. 6K DPS with light Attacks. Skill(s) don't matter.
DPS 2: Icestaff/Bow. The mutation of Play-like-I-want-did-it-too-in-Skyrim. Regional Highscore in Candy Crush AND 4K Hours playtime in SIMS.

VET-DLC

e) 20%
Things went well. All Bosses down, loot distributed, eventually done some Acheivements like NoDeath, Speedrun.

f) 30% (if Dungeon is Daily)
Fakeheal.
First DPS (CP 303) picks up the Quest. Runs into the first group. Dies. Blames the Healer, who isn't a healer.
Trash needs some time, 15K Group DPS is not that much.
First Boss: 3 Players completely ignore the mechanics, wipe.

g) 10%
2 DPS leave thegroup after one of them dies because he didn't dodge the cleave and comment it with "Just need the NoDeath. Bye"

h) 10%
Things are going well. Healer and DPS want to do Hardmode. 3 Wipes. Leave the group "Just needed the Hardmode and 2 Keys"

i) 5% (if Dungeon is Scalecaller)
DPS 1: Need Zaan
DPS 2: Need Zaan
Heal: Need Zaan

DPS and Heal leave the group. New DPS says "Hello, First Time here"

j) 25%
First Group, healer starts: Enchanted Growth, Budding Seeds, Enchanted Forest, Healing Springs, Mutagen, Blessing of Restoration, Ward Ally, Switches Bar, Summons Bear. Livecomment during his Stream "The nice thing about ESO is, you can play like you want". Two DPS ask for a Synergy. Healer: "What are Synergies?" Both DPS leave.

And now the other option:

(k) [Guild Channel] Need 2 DPS, 1 Heal for SCP Vet.
Result: 140K Group-DPS, 3 Synergies. And 4 deconstructed Zaan-Headpieces.

What would you do?

richo262 · July 2020

I have no prob with ZOS mildly monetizing it, they have to. The problem is ZOS will be competing with themselves. Most players have a main, and the alts are just builds. Character slots = build loadouts. By making a dual spec system they effectively nullify the purpose of a character slot. I'd prefer 6 (one of each class) character that are far more robust and versatile than 6 characters and 12 builds. So what I'm writing below is an ideal tailored around the end result being more robust characters, with the option to recycle character slots to make their existing characters even more robust and ZOS not having to compete with themselves.

They should make outfit slots account wide and improve their functionality to include customizations of:

1) Outfit (as it is right now)
Additionally but optional
2) CP load out
3) Attribute loadout
4) Equipped items
5) Skill setup

Furthermore it would be nice to merge 2 (or more, up to 3) characters together to also change racials. Example, merging a Nord DK Tank with High Elf magDK results in:

1) Option of swapping racial between Nord or High Elf (or whichever races you chose)
2) Ability to swap morphs on the fly (so you can have a stam/mag loadout easily)
3) Slightly increased inventory to make up for the loss of a character
4) Lose a character slot (unless the merged character is deleted, then you regain 2)
5) Chance for a double drop on writs and certain daily rewards.

So ZOS can monetize by increasing the demand for Character slots and Outfit slots. If this was the case, I'd buy them all.

ZOS could monetize further by instead of making Outfit slots Account Wide, make them Class Wide. You'd have to purchase 9 for each class to max out, and I still wouldn't consider that over reach.

To max this out (which is really overkill for most players wanting 1 or 2 extra builds)
10 character slots = 15,000 crowns
9 outfit slots = 13,500 crowns (If class bound x6 = 81,000 crowns)

There is absolutely no need to max out, you won't need to max it out unless you really want 10 builds per class. But there is a potential for 96,000 crowns there for ZOS. With Gold for Crowns being a thing, its hardly a problem.