ESO PvP: Healing is Extremely Underwhelming

Xzysts · June 2020

I am not sure what the point of running any healing abilities is this patch. They don’t seem to work anyways. Harrowstorm patch was amazing. As of now, nobody can survive. It seems like a very unpopular opinion, but last patch was way healthier for PvP in my opinion. My guild and I are probably going to take a break from this PvP climate and just do PvE for awhile. What do you guys think? I play pretty much every class and seem to have the same problem no matter what setups I run.

Kadoin · June 2020

They were told, but didn't listen.

Meanwhile, the tank meta is stronger than ever, they introduced 1-piece set items that further empowered the tank meta, and with heals taking a nosedive % damage reduction, damage avoidance, and damage resistance (shields), all went up in value and classes with native access to that rule Cyrodiil because the sets that granted those things all got nerfed.

It's surprising how anyone could read the patch notes and conclude the changes were bad, even without testing, and yet with testing and input the changes still went through. It's crazy.

Wait, no. It's ZOS.

Xzysts · June 2020

Kadoin wrote: »

They were told, but didn't listen.

Meanwhile, the tank meta is stronger than ever, they introduced 1-piece set items that further empowered the tank meta, and with heals taking a nosedive % damage reduction, damage avoidance, and damage resistance (shields), all went up in value and classes with native access to that rule Cyrodiil because the sets that granted those things all got nerfed.

It's surprising how anyone could read the patch notes and conclude the changes were bad, even without testing, and yet with testing and input the changes still went through. It's crazy.

Wait, no. It's ZOS.

Like I said. I pretty much play every class and seem to be running the same setups as everyone else and even went out of my way to try and survive. For me, it was just not possible. I have played PvP for a long time. This is by far worse than the DoT meta imo.

Kadoin · June 2020

Xzysts wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

They were told, but didn't listen.

Meanwhile, the tank meta is stronger than ever, they introduced 1-piece set items that further empowered the tank meta, and with heals taking a nosedive % damage reduction, damage avoidance, and damage resistance (shields), all went up in value and classes with native access to that rule Cyrodiil because the sets that granted those things all got nerfed.

It's surprising how anyone could read the patch notes and conclude the changes were bad, even without testing, and yet with testing and input the changes still went through. It's crazy.

Wait, no. It's ZOS.

Like I said. I pretty much play every class and seem to be running the same setups as everyone else and even went out of my way to try and survive. For me, it was just not possible. I have played PvP for a long time. This is by far worse than the DoT meta imo.

You gotta use that double-ravage health poison man. That's the secret sauce. Since most people can only get a 1-2k HoT tick, then you have to use that poison to make sure their ticks don't matter.

Next you have to wear Sellistrix. Now that Sellistrix is guaranteed to proc every 5 or 6 seconds with AoE damage and AoE stun, it is the BiS proc set in the entire game for any content where you can stun without consequences (don't use it in boss fights where tank has to interrupt, but for cleaning trash and vMA its the greatest). Sellistrix forces a player to stop attacking, waste stam sprinting out or blocking, and does damage. I

In other words Sellistrix offers both attack and defense in one 2 piece for zero cost since it can proc on any attack or skill unlike infernal guardian, and the proc is guaranteed. Too bad my input on the set in PTS was apparently read and ignored, but that's great for anyone looking to win or 1vX with a set that is literally a carry set.

Third, you have to make sure you have speed and a bow to slow them down. There are many ways to make a "haha I win build," but what I recommend is a stamplar or hybrid templar with defense + speed + ritual of retribution (so no one can get close without proccing Sellistrix

) + bow.

Works quite well this patch to the point gear doesn't even really matter. I'm serious. You gonna see many do that this patch eventually because it's broken op, and of course I have been recommending it everywhere since before the patch dropped just to ruin PvP.

Taleof2Cities · June 2020

Do you have a healer in your group, @Xzysts?

Or are you just trying to "wing it" by using pre-Greymoor builds and expecting the same results?

Personally, I have not had a problem healing PvP raid groups post-Greymoor. I changed a few things around to keep the same sustain.

BraidasNM · June 2020

People actlly dying > ppl spamming heals forever

Major_Lag · June 2020

Meanwhile, the real root of the problem remains completely unaddressed: heal stacking in groups is still crazy powerful as ever - arguably, even more so, since self heals suck now - and classes with the best access to healing still have the best access to healing (in the relative sense), eclipsing those classes that don't.

A classic facepalm "ugh, we told ya so!" moment, as with pretty much every other PTS cycle of such a nature.

ShawnLaRock · June 2020

@Kadoin Thank you for confirming my suspicions about the purposeful attempt to kill PVP. Sucks - but it keeps getting more and more clear every day.

S.

Banana · June 2020

It sure does. It's gank or tank these days

Firstmep · June 2020

I had to rework pretty much all my builds for this patch, from the ground up, it has been a very long time since the meta was shaken up this much.
On my stamplar I now run a very high sustain setup, with a focus on burst damage, and with the wild hunt ring, strong kiting power.
My magplar I've converted to a range caster with damage shields, since BOL sucks b@llz in no cp now.
My stamsorc, one an in an out, bob and weave champ, is now a wood elf with double bow bars, rooting, stunning spamming ranged hell on people.
Even my stamden is a bow bow-tard now.
Point is, you gotta adapt the changes, I'm sure other people have adapted differently from me, but I've been having a lot of success with all my build.
I only play no cp though, so in cp it may well be different.

Edit: Forgive the typos, mobile autocorrect is not my friend.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO · June 2020

you have not come across a ball group who take no damage with the new sets zos put in the healing reduction has not worked for them but for none ball groups it has had a major inpack if zos is not carefull pvp will go dead, because peeps dont want to fight if they die all the time and cant kill anything

LuxLunae · June 2020

Xzysts wrote: »

I am not sure what the point of running any healing abilities is this patch. They don’t seem to work anyways. Harrowstorm patch was amazing. As of now, nobody can survive. It seems like a very unpopular opinion, but last patch was way healthier for PvP in my opinion. My guild and I are probably going to take a break from this PvP climate and just do PvE for awhile. What do you guys think? I play pretty much every class and seem to have the same problem no matter what setups I run.

5 button FPS....

gatekeeper13 · June 2020

No, healing works perfectly. Actually needs more nerfing.

1) I hit a tank with Toxic Barrage from stealth. Had around 11k penetration and around 8k weapon dmg. He didn't drop below 80% and outhealed the dmg instantly.

2) Ball groups still outheal everything.

3) I was attacked by 4 high ranking werewolves yesterday (birdy vampire bow NB here with no impen) and I could stay alive by spamming Vigor and Dark Cloak for around 10 secs before I got ripped to pieces. Makes no sense.

relentless_turnip · June 2020

I'm actually finding magdk better this patch than Stamcro 😂 I find Stam heals are really rough this patch. On my magdk I have powered resto in heavy with coag, cauterise and radiating. I am also in heavy for extra healing received and I feel so tanky. Dots melt people so well that I don't need much burst, compared to the last patch.

I am medium on Stamcro have vigor, spirit guardian and mortal coil. The healing is terrible in comparison, I had to throw on hexproof as well to survive the pressure. I play with wild Hunt on an orc, so focus a lot on speed. Mortal coil probably isn't up as much as I'd like it to be. I could make a heavy dot build, but it just isn't how I want to play it.

finehair · June 2020

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

No, healing works perfectly. Actually needs more nerfing.

1) I hit a tank with Toxic Barrage from stealth. Had around 11k penetration and around 8k weapon dmg. He didn't drop below 80% and outhealed the dmg instantly.

2) Ball groups still outheal everything.

3) I was attacked by 4 high ranking werewolves yesterday (birdy vampire bow NB here with no impen) and I could stay alive by spamming Vigor and Dark Cloak for around 10 secs before I got ripped to pieces. Makes no sense.

To be honest it is easy to mitigate the damage from toxic barrage, holding block and spamming heals if you can't find a wall to get behind is a good way, and you said it yourself he was a tank player.

Even if they decrease cyro heals to %90 ball groups will outheal everything you throw at them. Stacking every heal known to men, mer and beast multiple times makes a guy with 7 training gear an immortal.
Cross healing needs a nerf, you shouldn't be able to stack 20 radiating regen on 1 character. That heal nerf only hurt small-scale and solo players who are playing dps, tank and heal for themselves.

Indigogo · June 2020

I don't know, I'm having a blast healing in cyro on my magsorc. Jesus twilight heals for the win!

Chilly-McFreeze · June 2020

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

No, healing works perfectly. Actually needs more nerfing.

1) I hit a tank with Toxic Barrage from stealth. Had around 11k penetration and around 8k weapon dmg. He didn't drop below 80% and outhealed the dmg instantly.

2) Ball groups still outheal everything.

3) I was attacked by 4 high ranking werewolves yesterday (birdy vampire bow NB here with no impen) and I could stay alive by spamming Vigor and Dark Cloak for around 10 secs before I got ripped to pieces. Makes no sense.

Sure, make everyone need a pocket healer. Fun fact: such general nerfs don’t change how healing power is distributed. Ball groups and classes with good heals will still have better heals than those who had *** heals to begin with. All it does is killing of the latter even more.

Major_Lag · June 2020

Meanwhile, as predicted, in large group play pretty much nothing has changed. There's still a lot overhealing from stacking heals from multiple healers.

Now we are stuck waiting another 3-4 months (if not more!) until this change is rolled back at next DLC release, quite possibly only to be replaced by another equally misguided nerf.

L_Nici · June 2020

My experience is completely different. Heal is weaker sure, but that was the point, I can kill people again without them starting to spam heals since they can't outheal my burst anymore. Tank Meta took a huge blow and I see way more people running Damage builds again, which sped up PvP a lot and made it way more enjoyable. It is no fun to fight 30 minutes against 1 person and then go into the next 30 minutes fight and that is just gone now, no one can stand that insanely long anymore with just holding block and heal.
Really the only people that would complain about PvP right now are those who expect to get carried by heal and block like the last years, I am very happy that this braindead style got nerfed, you finally see how good those people actually are. You have to be skilled again to survive.
The current PvP is the best since Morrowind, even though Stam Necro is still insanely OP. The only thing that needs to be adressed would be the terrible performance with that fixed, it would be the best PvP of all time.

ArchMikem · June 2020

If you can't survive, neither can the enemy players. Just sounds like a real War now.

Chilly-McFreeze · June 2020

L_Nici wrote: »

My experience is completely different. Heal is weaker sure, but that was the point, I can kill people again without them starting to spam heals since they can't outheal my burst anymore. Tank Meta took a huge blow and I see way more people running Damage builds again, which sped up PvP a lot and made it way more enjoyable. It is no fun to fight 30 minutes against 1 person and then go into the next 30 minutes fight and that is just gone now, no one can stand that insanely long anymore with just holding block and heal.
Really the only people that would complain about PvP right now are those who expect to get carried by heal and block like the last years, I am very happy that this braindead style got nerfed, you finally see how good those people actually are. You have to be skilled again to survive.
The current PvP is the best since Morrowind, even though Stam Necro is still insanely OP. The only thing that needs to be adressed would be the terrible performance with that fixed, it would be the best PvP of all time.

Spolken like someone who gets "carried" by CP.

No CP didn't suffer from armies of unkillable tank/healbots to begin with. Now it's a cheap shooter with swords there.

technohic · June 2020

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

No, healing works perfectly. Actually needs more nerfing.

1) I hit a tank with Toxic Barrage from stealth. Had around 11k penetration and around 8k weapon dmg. He didn't drop below 80% and outhealed the dmg instantly.

2) Ball groups still outheal everything.

3) I was attacked by 4 high ranking werewolves yesterday (birdy vampire bow NB here with no impen) and I could stay alive by spamming Vigor and Dark Cloak for around 10 secs before I got ripped to pieces. Makes no sense.

Sure, make everyone need a pocket healer. Fun fact: such general nerfs don’t change how healing power is distributed. Ball groups and classes with good heals will still have better heals than those who had *** heals to begin with. All it does is killing of the latter even more.

I have been saying forever a flat nerf across the board does not give any balance. The people that heal more than you, still will heal more than you. The people who are tankier than you, still will be tankier because you both swallow the same pill.

All it did is drop TTK. Might have needed some of that but I think it's too far and the problematic outliers should have been addressed first with more precision

L_Nici · June 2020

@Chilly-McFreeze I play no CP actually because I wanted to get away from the tank meta before Greymoor and even started with no CP all those years ago and I play CP as well. I feel no real difference except that I can kill no CPler even faster, and my own heals being a tiny bit weaker, but not that much that I couldn't sustain enough. So technically I should die faster as well, but thats not the case. So in no CP almost nothing changed, while CP is way more enjoyable.

I never played on healing and tankiness, I play with Movement, best way to don't die is to not get hit in the first place, I always played with enough Stamsustain that I can afford rolling and sprinting with or without CP easily, I don't even change Sets between CP and no CP.

Chilly-McFreeze · June 2020

L_Nici wrote: »

@Chilly-McFreeze I play no CP actually because I wanted to get away from the tank meta before Greymoor and even started with no CP all those years ago and I play CP as well. I feel no real difference except that I can kill no CPler even faster, and my own heals being a tiny bit weaker, but not that much that I couldn't sustain enough. So technically I should die faster as well, but thats not the case. So in no CP almost nothing changed, while CP is way more enjoyable.

Being able to kill faster doesn't equal players dying faster? Come on man, everybody knows that we are usually squishier in no CP. Of course you can build to be tanky, but it's far more difficult than in CP, where you get overloaded with % mitigation etc.

L_Nici · June 2020

@Chilly-McFreeze So? I actually said that, why repeating my words? The point is, that I don't care if it is CP or no CP it works in both, so nothing with being carried by CP.
And what you say with no CP being a shooter with sword, it always was for me, no CP was always so much easier than CP. Nothing changed there.

Dracane · June 2020

I do not agree. I prefer having people die in pvp rather than no one dying. That is the entire point of pvping.
So no, Harrowstorm was one of the least healthy thus far. Greymoor introduced cancer and imbalance on its own, the healing change is none of them. Furthermore, I do not feel like healing is that much weaker. Most still heal as crazy as before.

KurtAngle2 · June 2020

Dracane wrote: »

I do not agree. I prefer having people die in pvp rather than no one dying. That is the entire point of pvping.
So no, Harrowstorm was one of the least healthy thus far. Greymoor introduced cancer and imbalance on its own, the healing change is none of them. Furthermore, I do not feel like healing is that much weaker. Most still heal as crazy as before.

Easy said as a MAGSORC main.
What an unworthy statement

Dracane · June 2020

KurtAngle2 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I do not agree. I prefer having people die in pvp rather than no one dying. That is the entire point of pvping.
So no, Harrowstorm was one of the least healthy thus far. Greymoor introduced cancer and imbalance on its own, the healing change is none of them. Furthermore, I do not feel like healing is that much weaker. Most still heal as crazy as before.

Easy said as a MAGSORC main.
What an unworthy statement

You suppose I must not heal? My pitiful dark deal heal got even weaker, yes. The times where hardened ward is good and worthy have long passed after several direct and indirect nerfs. I struggle more than ever to stay alive this patch, at least it is somewhat likewise for my enemies, so I am fine. Until they discovered well fitted stacking and are stronger than ever before.

I am suffering since a very long time.

You suffer since 2 weeks.

exeeter702 · June 2020

Imagine thinking large scale raid based pvp with seige gimmicks is in any way balance-able and should be taken seriously.

KurtAngle2 · June 2020

Dracane wrote: »

KurtAngle2 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I do not agree. I prefer having people die in pvp rather than no one dying. That is the entire point of pvping.
So no, Harrowstorm was one of the least healthy thus far. Greymoor introduced cancer and imbalance on its own, the healing change is none of them. Furthermore, I do not feel like healing is that much weaker. Most still heal as crazy as before.

Easy said as a MAGSORC main.
What an unworthy statement

You suppose I must not heal? My pitiful dark deal heal got even weaker, yes. The times where hardened ward is good and worthy have long passed after several direct and indirect nerfs. I struggle more than ever to stay alive this patch, at least it is somewhat likewise for my enemies, so I am fine. Until they discovered well fitted stacking and are stronger than ever before.

I am suffering since a very long time. You suffer since 2 weeks.

You're the least affected class by the healing nerfs, go play something else and notice by yourself how gimped you are in the survivability department when you don't have the:

- Best Shields
- Best Mobility
- Best Heal

Fur_like_snow · June 2020

Good. Healing was outta control in previous patches. It was far to easy to hold block and heal while waiting for a group to show up and save them.