Block versus Roll Dodge

Dusk_Coven · June 2020

Suppose the boss is about to land a big attack. You know you can successfully block it (and have the Stamina, etc etc).
Under what circumstances would you choose to Roll Dodge it instead?

ADDENDUM: What about the timing of Roll Dodge? As soon as you see the charge-up (i.e., the little indicator lines around the attacker) you can start your Roll Dodge? Is this a good general rule or not reliable? Any notable exceptions?

Firstmep · June 2020

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Suppose the boss is about to land a big attack. You know you can successfully block it (and have the Stamina, etc etc).
Under what circumstances would you choose to Roll Dodge it instead?

There are some mobs and bosses that will hit you really hard even through block, most notably heavy attacks.
It's preferable to dodge those.
Lurchers in Lair of Marselok come to mind.

El_Borracho · June 2020

Its situational. For instance, in Hel Ra, I find it easier and more reliable to block the damage the top boss periodically inflicts. Compare to the Wills in Sunspire and you are better off roll dodging (and running for your life back to the heals) when they start their backhanded slap attack.

Overall, I prefer to block in situations where both will due and keep roll dodging for the times when that is all I can do.

Kadoin · June 2020

When my twitchy fingers make me roll anyway...

Dusk_Coven · June 2020

What about the timing of Roll Dodge? As soon as you see the charge-up (i.e., the little indicator lines around the attacker) you can start your Roll Dodge? Is this a good general rule or not reliable? Any notable exceptions?

tsaescishoeshiner · June 2020

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

What about the timing of Roll Dodge? As soon as you see the charge-up (i.e., the little indicator lines around the attacker) you can start your Roll Dodge? Is this a good general rule or not reliable? Any notable exceptions?

Each heavy attack is different. Usually you want to wait a bit before dodging, probably. Two particularly long wind-ups are the Bone Colossus from Fang Lair final boss (which DPS have to kite, actually, the way most groups do it on vet), and the tall kitties in Moongrave Fane.

Dusk_Coven · June 2020

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

What about the timing of Roll Dodge? As soon as you see the charge-up (i.e., the little indicator lines around the attacker) you can start your Roll Dodge? Is this a good general rule or not reliable? Any notable exceptions?

Each heavy attack is different. Usually you want to wait a bit before dodging, probably. Two particularly long wind-ups are the Bone Colossus from Fang Lair final boss (which DPS have to kite, actually, the way most groups do it on vet), and the tall kitties in Moongrave Fane.

Urgh. I don't want to rely on an add-on to tell me how many 10ths of a second I have left before the attack lands. Other than watching them a few times and memorizing who does what, are there any other visual cues?

Magdalina · June 2020

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

What about the timing of Roll Dodge? As soon as you see the charge-up (i.e., the little indicator lines around the attacker) you can start your Roll Dodge? Is this a good general rule or not reliable? Any notable exceptions?

Not just it's different for different attacks (for instance, with Elsweyr dragons Chomp you absolutely have to dodge the millisecond you see it start winding up or you're dead, even if on the screen you're dodging you will still get chomped down; but, as mentioned above, some other attacks do have a much longer wind up) but the timing for quite a few of them seems off. Ergo, you dodge the attack with what appears plenty of time to spare but still die. I've been noticing this in quite a few instances and I don't actually remember this being so bad a few years ago. My main issue is it seems extremely inconsistent too, some fights with similar cues it seems to work fine but others it just doesn't. Add-ons do seem tremendously useful for this, they do get the correct timing, but then again not all attacks are there (I forget which I use but, while it seems to work fairly well for dungeons, it doesn't see stuff such as Elsweyr dragon Chomp).

Overall I'd say if you are indeed sure you can actually survive blocking, block is kind of more reliable. Dodge also brings some repositioning with it which may or may not be desired.

Dusk_Coven · June 2020

Magdalina wrote: »

Dodge also brings some repositioning with it which may or may not be desired.

I was reading on UESP that during the Roll Dodge all attacks automatically miss. So theoretically (e.g., you are tanking a boss to face a wall) could you not dodge in place by rolling into a wall or obstacle and still not get hit? Or do you still have to actually move out of range of the attack?
I've been trying it a few times against regular mobs doing a Heavy Attack or Uppercut and realistically I didn't move out of melee attack range (which is like 4-5 meters in ESO?) but it still looked like the attack didn't land. Hard to tell if I just didn't get the CC portion because of the Roll Dodge though.

zvavi · June 2020

Dodging into walls works.
For your question about heavy attacks cue, each boss&mob has it's own queue, heck, in vMGF the vamp guy has 2 different heavy attacks, with 2 different animations and wind up times.
(Best example I have for roll cue is the Colossus in vFL, the secret is to roll after he put his hand up, "put your hands up in the air" is the thing I tell people when I teach hm.)

I got restless fingers I roll a lot. Especially the ones that hurt a lot. Think about it as trading stamina for health (or the resources you will need to use to heal that damage).

PS about dodge repositioning you can dodge through bosses, some you can even dodge back then go forward and still keep in place, that's also a thing u will have to learn per boss, for example first boss in ir I like making a triangle of my positions of dodge and him when he is enraged, no dodge through cause he got cleave.